NASCAR suspends BAR over cheating scandal at Indianapolis

cheaters!!! permanent ban. 😁 I guess both Ferrari and I are pretty happy about it. 😁 😉

Carol Ortiz4 said:One more thing... I was doing some reading just now... and it seems Max is constantly pushing this whole "secret fuel tank" concept...

Fine... but if I were to ask Max directly, how on earth do you hide a 15-liter tank from the officials?!?! 15 liters isn't exactly a tiny volume to try and sneak past someone...
especially in Formula 1, where every single millimeter counts and every gram matters when you're trying to shed weight...

It’s pure stupidity... the FIA should have disqualified them instead of just hitting BAR...

According to Martin Brundle, we're talking about a collector—which every car has—that holds the fuel coming out of the tank. It doesn't get emptied before weighing; only the main tank does. At BAR, that collector was over 8 liters, which is significantly larger than what other teams were using. Once you subtract those 8 kilograms, you realize how much lighter the car actually was. In the following race, BAR had a total advantage of 12 seconds.

Carol Ortiz4 said:I’d much rather believe the FIA rigged something than think BAR was actually cheating...

The crew over at British American Racing are honestly something else; they're always hunting for loopholes in the rulebook (like when they strategically sat out that first race). I'm actually quite glad to see them finally getting penalized.

dustyraven142 said:According to Martin Brundle, we're talking about a collector—something every car carries—that holds fuel from the main tank, and it doesn't drain until after weighing; they only empty the main tank. At British American Racing, that collector was over 8 liters, which was several times larger than what the other teams were using. Once you subtract those 8 kilograms, you see how much lighter the car actually was. In the following race, British American Racing had a total advantage of about 12 seconds.

It was something like that... initially, the idea was that it acted as a sort of buffer to prevent the fuel from sloshing around too much inside the tanks... but now British American Racing is claiming it's just a reservoir that feeds directly into the engine and absolutely has to stay full for the engine to run properly...

Anđeo said:Those guys at British American Racing are unbelievable; they're always hunting for loopholes in the rulebook (like when they intentionally pulled out of that first race). I'm glad they finally got penalized.

They are simply pushing the regulations to their absolute limits... honestly, everyone has done this before, so it isn't anything groundbreaking. Did you know that three other teams actually had to redesign their tanks after this incident with British American Racing? It shows they weren't the only ones playing the game...

And before you start passing judgment on British American Racing, keep in mind that Charlie Whiting actually APPROVED their system at the start of the season...

Carol Ortiz4 said:......
Before you start throwing shade at BAR, just keep in mind that Charlie Whiting actually gave their system the green light back at the start of the season...

It really doesn't matter whether they use that tank or not.
If the rules say you can't use it, then you just can't. I think we're talking about the full tank here.

I don't have anything against BAR, personally. I guess.

The FIA is just known for constantly messing around with things, though I don't really think they're targeting BAR specifically.

Henry Anderson4t said:It really doesn't have anything to do with whether they actually end up using that tank or not.
If the rules say you CAN'T use it, then you simply CAN'T. I was referring specifically to a full fuel tank.

I don't think you quite caught my drift there... what I was trying to get at is that they developed this specific system—which, mind you, is nearly identical to what a certain manufacturer produces for three or four other teams—and then they had someone like Whiting look it over, who gave the ENTIRE system the green light... so, honestly, I’m struggling to see how this is being labeled illegal now.

That silly Max Mosley and his little "Which Hunt."

It reminds me of when Coulthard said right after Barcelona: "I'm perfectly happy with my eighth-place finish, but given how things are unfolding with the FIA, I'll probably be sitting in sixth place within a few days."

😂

I see there’s some confusion surrounding that fuel tank—it wasn't actually illegal, but rather that the crew at Barclays "forgot" to empty it out to squeeze every bit of performance out of the car by hitting the minimum weight limit.

So, the issue wasn't the tank itself; it was the fuel they "stashed" inside. Their car ended up being 15 pounds under the minimum weight requirement, which is why they got disqualified.

It’s actually not 33 pounds, it's a bit less than 11 pounds...
Wait, doesn't the rulebook state that the car, INCLUDING all the lubricants and fuel, has to weigh in at 1,322 pounds?

Carol Ortiz4 said:It’s not 15kg—it's actually a bit less than 5kg...
Doesn't the rulebook clearly state that the car ALONG WITH all its fluids and fuel has to hit 600kg??

I'm thinking it's without fuel—since they mentioned draining the main tank first to get things back to normal, and then losing another 6kg once they cleared out that "reserve" tank.

And that weight includes the driver too.

''In addition to scrutineering, cars are also weighed throughout the Grand Prix weekend to ensure that they comply with minimum weight requirements (currently 600kg including driver, except during qualifying when it is 605kg ). During practice and qualifying cars are called in at random to be weighed. After the race every car and driver is weighed.''

[SIZE=0,5]4) the car will then be weighed with driver (and without driver if necessary) and the result given to the driver in writing;

d) No substance may be added to, placed on, or removed from a car after it has been selected for weighing or has finished the race or during the weighing procedure. (Except by a scrutineer when acting in his official capacity). [/SIZE]

Carol Ortiz4 said:It isn't 15kg; it’s actually a little less than 5kg...
Doesn't the rulebook state that the car, including all lubricants and fuel, has to weigh in at 600kg?

Actually, if I remember correctly, it wasn't even under 5kg—it was about 5.6kg under the limit, coming in at 594.6 kg.

I don't have the exact wording of the regulations right in front of me, but I am certain of one thing: at no point during a race can the weight of the car and driver drop below that 600kg mark.
So, the lubricants are included in the weighing because they aren't being topped off during a pit stop or after the checkered flag. As for the fuel, they drain it to "simulate" that specific moment when the car rolls into the pits on its very last drop.

What personally bothers me—and please don't go thinking I'm some sort of die-hard Barclays supporter... it's just this political maneuvering that really gets under my skin—is the fact that they are 5.6kg under the limit. The reason for that is because Barclays Honda designed this "secret" fuel tank intended to stay completely full, meaning it doesn't actually empty out during the race. Now, that part is still quite debatable since the regulations themselves are incredibly murky... BUT (and I mean a massive, glaring BUT) what truly irritates me is this specific statement from Max Mosley: "Barclays Honda needs to prove they are right first; until then, we consider them cheaters."

From what I understand of how things work, people should be considered innocent until proven guilty, and it should be up to NASCAR (the organization under Mosley 😁) to actually provide proof of wrongdoing...

That isn't your standard courtroom—besides, I have a feeling that fuel tank isn't staying topped off.

The bottom line is they cheated—honestly, I wish they’d apply these kinds of strict standards to everyone instead of just picking on the "smaller" teams.

To be perfectly honest, I found NASCAR quite dull even back when Bank of America was actually giving them a run for their money... they really could have just let them compete properly. If they had simply gotten rid of that "secret" fuel tank setup, we might actually get to watch 20 cars on the track instead of being stuck watching 18...