Something's not right with my brother

despR8 said:It only lasted about a week and we never actually went all the way because I wasn't interested. We just spent the time kissing and being affectionate. .............
The issue is that I've already moved past that phase of teenage curiosity, but my brother clearly hasn't... ...........
I read somewhere that guys hit puberty a bit later, so maybe this whole experience left a bigger mark on him than it did on me?

Looking at what's being said here, I don't think this is really about anything involving early childhood....

It was once a different era, an age where people seemed to experiment with everything under the sun. From what I can gather, it wasn’t anything more than affection—which is fine by me, because love is one of the few things that can't truly cause harm. A kiss is just a kiss; I wouldn't make a mountain out of a molehill over it, nor would I let my conscience eat me alive. Quite the opposite, actually. Because of all that, you and your brother still get along famously, and I don't see any reason why that should ever be disrupted. Whether it's a rose for your sister or breakfast in bed, is there anything better? To me, it seems like you aren't actually afraid of your brother—who clearly loves you dearly and poses absolutely no threat whatsoever. I suspect what you're really feeling is self-doubt... wondering if you’d even put up a fight if he were to initiate physical contact (whatever terminology you prefer to use for it). Now, I’m no shrink, but I wouldn't take any drastic measures. This current bond you share as siblings—it certainly couldn't turn into resentment if you tried to push him toward a therapist. Go ahead and take the risk, even if it ends with you two sharing a bed, though I highly doubt that's where this leads. And hey, if it does happen, you don't have to tell a soul, not even us here on the forum. Someone will inevitably judge, and then you'll just be left with a guilty conscience.

I am a bit late with my replies, but several things have transpired in the meantime, and the situation has shifted significantly. I actually managed to get him to speak openly about all of this. I had assumed he would never confide in me under normal circumstances, so I tried the old "in vino veritas" approach, and fortunately, it worked. It seems Shirl was closer to the truth than I thought, as it turns out he talks about me quite frequently. However, the issue is somewhat more complex... from what I can gather, he isn't just sexually interested; he has much deeper feelings involved. I didn't fully grasp everything since we were both quite intoxicated and emotionally charged, but he mentioned multiple times that he loves me and that I have always been like a "second mother" to him. There is some truth to that, as our mother wasn't particularly affectionate, so I often stepped in to fill the void and handle responsibilities that were essentially hers. When I explained my stance, he accepted it. He even admitted he doesn't know what came over him and expressed regret, though I could see he was disappointed nonetheless. Now I need to decide whether we should see a therapist, though I’d rather not force the issue unless he reverts to his former self—which, frankly, I doubt will happen. I haven't actually brought anything else up regarding this, but perhaps I will go for a consultation myself, even if everything seems fine. It appears he is avoiding me for now; presumably, he feels embarrassed after sobering up.

I must say, what surprised me most was how, once his guard dropped, he began acting like a child. He is typically very self-assured and doesn't take kindly to being lectured, yet in this instance, he conceded to everything I said as if he had no opinion or willpower of his own. I can't tell if it was due to shame or because he realized I don't share his sentiments. At one point, I even got the impression he was somehow enjoying my taking the lead, which made me wonder if he doesn't actually have a "big sister" complex stemming from our past behavior. I'll need to wait a few days for the dust to settle before I can draw any intelligent conclusions.

Drew Green68, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but there is no world in which we will ever be together because I simply do not want that. I love him as a brother, and that is where it ends. If you think I am "afraid of myself" or harboring repressed feelings, my behavior during that intense conversation when we both let our inhibitions slip would suggest otherwise. To be perfectly honest, he isn't even that repulsive to me as a man, but this is not an acceptable way of life for me, and I am not desperate enough to pursue it—nor is he. If he truly is unwell, then let him hate me; that is better than him refusing to confront his own problem. But, as I said, I will see how he behaves moving forward and give him one more chance.

I wrote the following responses BEFORE I had the conversation with him:

unknown, he was about 12 years old, maybe older, maybe younger. I've wondered about it myself, but I can't say for certain. I don't recall a specific event that serves as a benchmark. It's all a bit hazy, and perhaps I've suppressed certain parts since I wasn't exactly proud of them for a while.

Soks, this all started immediately after the breakup, back when I was still struggling with depression. Although we parted ways without major fallout, it was still difficult to accept being single again after such a long relationship, especially with my 30th birthday approaching. During that time, my brother was comforting me and treating me like a princess. I didn't see anything beyond brotherly affection at the time, so I even foolishly told him I loved him and that his attention meant a lot to me. Actually, even then, it felt slightly odd how attentive he was, but I just assumed he had become more mature and didn't mean anything by it. It was only later that I realized it was lasting too long and he was starting to overstep. I eventually cooled off, but that didn't change anything because he continued with the displays of affection. I believe I've made it clear enough through my actions that I no longer approve of his closeness. I tried ignoring him or rejecting him bluntly, but he always brushed it off as a joke. He would ask why I was being so cranky, making it seem as though I was being ungrateful when he was merely being "kind." As I've stated, I am not afraid of him and he knows my boundaries well; I just wish he would realize how wrong it is to try to make this a reality. We can't discuss it openly because he certainly won't admit what he truly wants. Besides, he is well aware now that I know his intentions, and I don't see much difference.

Gary Nguyen45, I wouldn't say he struggles with social interactions; at least, I haven't noticed any issues there. He has both male and female friends, and he isn't aggressive or selfish, even if he does have a bit of a macho streak. His only real quirk is that he doesn't exactly bow down to authority, but he can adapt when necessary, which seems perfectly normal to me. Honestly, I doubt he would have even made it through college if he had more significant issues than that. Could you clarify what you're actually getting at here? Are you suggesting these are symptoms of schizophrenia or something else?

Shirl, I truly wish what you're saying were true. Perhaps you're right and I'm just idealizing him, but doesn't it seem to you that his logic is fundamentally flawed? Shouldn't he realize, regardless of anything else, that a relationship like this is simply impossible or even unhealthy? For heaven's sake, he’s 24 years old; he's not a child who can't distinguish fantasy from reality. Does he even consider the potential consequences if I were to actually agree to this? I find his behavior utterly incomprehensible, and frankly, I'm worried about him. Even the way he's acted up to this point has fundamentally altered our relationship; I don't think I can ever look at him the same way again, not to mention the sheer amount of stress he's caused me.

Eena, I believe I know exactly what you mean. I dated someone once who was just like that, and it turned out to be some kind of narcissistic personality disorder. My brother, on the other hand, is quite sensitive, even if he occasionally puts up a cold front. However, he doesn't play those twisted games where he belittles people, and from what I know, he has no desire to cause others pain. When I mentioned him playing with people's emotions, I was mostly referring to his tendency to act foolishly—perhaps I didn't phrase that quite right. For instance, he can be a bit cranky at times and might act out if his feelings are hurt, but that's about it. I've certainly seen much worse cases than his.

Jeremy Flores2, I never even suggested that none of this might be my fault!

I had a pretty similar experience, but with my older sister—she’s a few years ahead of me. We used to be affectionate and kiss a little bit back then, too. I was around 13 at the time, and honestly, it didn't make me obsessed with her or anything, even though she was a cute kid, so I guess that conclusion feels a bit off to me. The idea of flirting with her now wouldn't even cross my mind. If you want my honest opinion, your brother seems a bit unhinged—he should probably see a therapist, just to be safe.

Good grief—I honestly thought I was dealing with a single outlier here, but it turns out I’m surrounded by absolute lunatics.
Where did you all leave your common sense?

Hold on a second... if he’s 24 and you’re pushing thirty, that means you’re basically 3 or 4 years older than him.
So when he was just 12, you were already 15 or 16... those aren't exactly "kid years" for playing around...
Maybe go see a therapist yourself... I really don't like the tone you're taking here.

Especially this part, which I can't stand:

Drew Green68, I’m not sure if I followed you, but we are never going to be together, period. It’s just not something I want. I love him like a brother, and that's where it ends. If I were actually "afraid of myself" or dealing with some repressed feelings, I’d probably be acting differently in this conversation now that we've both stopped holding back. To be honest, he isn't even that repulsive to me as a man, but this way of living just isn't for me. I'm not desperate enough to dive into something like that, and neither is he.

Sorry, but this doesn't exactly scream "sisterly love" to me.

Jeremy Flores2 said:Holy crap, I thought I was dealing with one weird case, but turns out this whole thread is just full of absolute freaks!
Where the hell is your common sense!!!!

Wait, what's even weird about that??? Seriously, until yesterday, it wasn't just considered okay, it was practically encouraged to marry a cousin... even the church unofficially gives the green light if there's "true love" involved (read: she's carrying his kid)... in plenty of Western countries, marrying a cousin is perfectly legal (look at Canada, Norway, Scotland, etc.), and the USA is actually one of the more conservative ones when it comes to laws... you even know that Albert Einstein married his cousin? The risk for genetic diseases is only about 3% higher than with someone unrelated, which is basically negligible unless everyone starts losing their minds over it... so you can't even compare that to a brother-sister situation.

on: the truth is, your brother probably wouldn't have had these ideas if you hadn't led him on... so you're definitely at fault here too... though, honestly, something has to be seriously broken in his head to want to go through with this since we're talking about much heavier incest... I'm not saying he's a complete lunatic, but something clearly clicked wrong in his brain... maybe it's college stress, or maybe some girl totally wrecked him and this became his outlet... who knows... anyway, if this is just temporary irrationality, then it's important that he realizes that himself... it's a good sign that he said he "doesn't even know what happened to him," assuming he was being sincere... as for your part in the "latent attraction," it doesn't even matter because according to Freud, there's always sexual tension within a family; it's just a question of how normal or adjusted we are to resist it... I bet a psychologist won't be able to tell you anything you don't already know... maybe just watch how he acts toward you and others now, see if he still has these delusional ideas... if he does, you should push him toward a psychiatrist instead of just a psychologist.

Jerry Moore2 said:I really can't stand this part:

There you go again with all those principles of yours... seriously, just take a breather, will you?

Honestly, I really think they should go see a psychiatrist together...🙄

Chris Fox4 said:I mean, what exactly about this is weird to you?

Sure—because obviously, siblings hooking up is just totally standard behavior...
Are you going to tell me next that you're getting physical with your parents and that's perfectly fine, too?

Jeremy Flores2 said:Oh sure, because it’s just totally fine and normal for cousins to be hooking up, right? Like, that's just standard procedure now....
What are you gonna tell me next? That you're getting touchy-feely with your own parents and that's perfectly fine too?

Honestly, I think you're being a bit dense here... all I actually said was that sleeping with a cousin isn't the same thing as sleeping with your sister.😵

Jeremy Flores2 said:Man, I thought we had one reasonable person in this group, but apparently I was wrong and you guys are all just completely out of your minds!
Seriously, where is your common sense?

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Honestly, I'm looking at this whole situation and I can hardly believe my eyes.

Jerry Moore2 said:Hold on a second... if he’s 24 and you’re nearing thirty, that means you’re about three or four years older than him.
So when he was 12, you were already 15 or 16... those aren't exactly "childhood" years for experimenting.
Maybe go see a psychiatrist yourself... I really don't like the tone you're taking here.

He isn't actually 24, and how close I am to thirty isn't the point. I didn't want to get into specific ages or gaps just to maintain some semblance of anonymity, as some people here might recognize me. So, please refrain from drawing conclusions based on those numbers. All I can tell you is that the age gap isn't massive, nor did he offer any resistance when we were together. If I took the initiative, it was only because I made the first move, and he went along with it. He could have said no; I never forced anything on him. Looking back, I realize I probably shouldn't have started it, but I was practically still a kid myself, and one tends to make foolish decisions at that age.

Jerry Moore2 said:I'm sorry, but this doesn't exactly feel very sisterly.

I think you missed my point entirely. I don't feel the level of repulsion toward him that someone else would likely feel toward their brother, perhaps because I grew up knowing him in a different way. It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it. The crux of the matter is that I am not attracted to him as a man; our initial contact was driven purely by curiosity. I'm no psychologist, but my view is that people don't inherently feel disgust toward close relatives as some here suggest—they simply don't feel sexual attraction (under normal circumstances). This sense of revulsion seems to be a learned social taboo rather than something innate. At least, that's my take. Furthermore, I don't see why I can't acknowledge someone's physical appearance without it being an issue. Recognizing beauty doesn't automatically mean I desire them, which is what Drew Green68 was implying. For instance, I find older men with completely different personalities than my brother quite attractive. I hope you won't misinterpret this too and assume I'd jump into bed with him if he were my type. In all likelihood, even then, he would be utterly uninteresting to me. I am simply trying to be honest now that I am facing a problem and seeking help. I'm not even afraid of the possibility that something might be wrong with me, but I believe I know myself well enough to distinguish between attraction and a lack thereof.

@Karen Long44 - thank you for your honesty; at least now I know I'm not the only "freak" on this forum. Could you just tell me which of you two initiated things?

@Chris Fox4 - I'm thinking along similar lines. Still, I don't truly believe a psychologist can fix this. At the very least, they could advise me on what to watch out for or how to behave if this is indeed a more serious issue. For now, I haven't noticed a regression to old patterns, and I hope it stays that way. My only lingering anxiety is that I will never truly know his intentions should he ever try to approach me in that way again.

Chris Fox4 said:I think you’re being a bit slow here—all I said was that sleeping with a cousin isn't the same thing as sleeping with a sister.😵

And do you actually know—honestly, do you even know—that you’ve been sleeping with both your sister and your cousin!?

Jeremy Flores2 said:Do you even realize what you did? Sleeping with both your sister and your cousin?!

Yeah, I know... and I slept with your mother too, you idiot.

neonhawk25 said:@Chris Fox4 - yeah, I’m pretty much on the same page as you. Still, I don't buy the idea that a therapist can't help at all. At least they could give me some heads-up on what to watch out for, or how to handle things if this turns into a much bigger issue. Right now, I haven't noticed him slipping back into his old ways, and honestly, I really hope it stays that way. The only thing eating at me is this constant nagging doubt... knowing I'll never truly be able to trust his intentions if he ever tries to get close to me again.

And seriously, if you're actually going to go see someone, do your homework first. Figure out who's actually worth your time, because let's be real—half the therapists out there are absolute idiots who don't have a clue what they're doing.

neonhawk25 said:Drew Green68, I don’t know if I’m reading you right here, but there is absolutely no way—under any circumstances—that we end up together because frankly, I just don't want that. I love him like a brother, period. End of story. If I were truly "afraid of myself" or harboring some deep-seated, repressed desires, I think my behavior during that heated argument where we both lost our filters would have been different. To be perfectly honest, he isn't even that repulsive to me as a man, but this isn't an acceptable way to live, and I’m not desperate enough to dive into something like that—and neither is he. If he really is sick, then let him hate me; honestly, being hated is better than him refusing to face his own issues. But, like I said before, I’ll see how things play out and I'm giving him one more chance for now.

God, you certainly have the stamina for smashing away at a keyboard, don't you? You completely missed my point! Maybe I phrased it clumsily, but I wasn't suggesting he's sexually attractive to you. Sure, maybe a tiny spark of attraction exists between siblings, but actually acting on it is incredibly rare—at least, I haven't heard of it happening. What I meant was that you're paralyzed by the fear of doing something that goes against everything we believe is normal, mostly because you think these "attractions" stem from childhood experiences. Good grief, every kid wants to peek at their parents or siblings when they're little, but that doesn't mean we're all sprinting to their beds now. So, in my view, the fear is totally unfounded. That’s why I told you not to rush to a doctor; it's nothing but pure anxiety...

Chris Fox4 said:I am... and you can take your mother, you idiot.

Well, well... I didn't realize you were into the deceased too—good grief—it seems the level of insanity in this thread just keeps climbing.

neonhawk25 said:Gary Nguyen45, I wouldn't say he struggles with social interaction—at least, I haven't seen any signs of that. He has both friends and girlfriends; he isn't aggressive or selfish, even if he does have a bit of a macho streak. His only real issue is that he doesn't exactly bow down to authority, but he can adapt when necessary, which seems perfectly normal to me. Honestly, if he had more significant issues, I doubt he would have even made it through college. Could you clarify what exactly you're getting at here? Are you suggesting these are symptoms of schizophrenia or something else?

Just to give you a quick answer:
Yes, that’s roughly what I was implying. Since you brought it up, I was curious if you had any specific reasons for thinking that beyond just family history. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like you don't.

neonhawk25 said:Gary Nguyen45, I wouldn't say he struggles with social interaction—at least, I haven't seen any evidence of that. He has plenty of friends, both guys and girls. He isn't aggressive or selfish, though he does have a bit of a macho streak. His only real quirk is that he doesn't exactly bow down to authority, but he knows how to play the game when he needs to, which seems perfectly normal to me. Honestly, if he had major social issues, I doubt he would have even made it through college. What exactly are you getting at here? Are you suggesting these are symptoms of schizophrenia or something else?

Just to clarify my point:
Yes, that’s roughly what I was implying. Since you brought it up, I was curious if you had specific reasons for thinking that beyond just family history. Based on what you've described, it doesn't sound like it.