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The impact of power lines and substations

Started by Zachary Rodriguez32 · · 👁 8 views · 86 replies

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Participants Zachary Rodriguez32boldsailor32Aswiftscout8Casey Palmer5Charles TurnerKate DiazSam Gonzalez67Kevin White5Mark Barnes11wanderingharbor51Chris Morgan67shadowgardener12wearymason4jadewolf16melloworca6
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#21 ·
boldsailor32 said:They don't actually work—unless they provide a psychological boost to your resilience, provided you believe in them. 😁

A reading of 250 - 300 nT is already quite a strong magnetic field, though I highly doubt a transformer station is the culprit here; it’s still 20 meters away, and I honestly haven't the slightest clue what else could be causing it.
That said, I am skeptical about whether the Full Point staff is being honest—measurements like that can be easily faked using a tiny battery-powered oscillator with a magnetic core tucked inside the meter, or even by tampering with the device itself. It is rather peculiar that the Full Point employees won't even provide a written report upon request 😁.

If you truly want to be certain about these readings, I would suggest following Kate Diaz's advice and finding someone at the College of Engineering who can professionally measure and pinpoint the radiation source, or perhaps you could check this page:

*********************************************
Is there an independent agency in the US that can test this type of radiation?

Yes. This type of radiation, much like many others, can be tested by Underwriters Laboratories based in the metropolitan area. They are an independent testing house that isn't subject to any financial, political, or other outside influences. They hold all the necessary authorizations from NIST and deal exclusively with measurements and quality testing.

You can find more information at info@zik.hr, or by calling +1 555-123-4444

UL

**************************************************
It is likely expensive, but when you are talking about buying a home, it might just be worth it.

V.

Oh, I should mention one more thing—we went (with that guy) to another small transformer station (about the size of two portable toilets joined 🙂 ) and used the device there. The man walked up to the station, leaned the device against it, and the unit just stopped working entirely—he claimed it couldn't read anything above 2000 nT. Then, he pulled the device back about 20 cm from the station, and it showed roughly 1500 nT...

And boldsailor32, thank you so much, you've been incredibly helpful. However, I think I might have figured out why the device in that apartment near that MASSIVE transformer station (and I mean massive—it covers a huge area, I'd guess it's larger than 65 ft x 65 ft) was showing such high numbers... it could be because of that transformer, or perhaps it's because there were four of us present and we all had our cell phones on us...
I do have one idea, though... we might call that guy back, leave all our phones behind, and take the measurement then. I'll also bring a Full Point cover (the one with the magnetic strips) to see if I can test the Full Point "in the field"!

But, what do you think, boldsailor32... should I go ahead with the apartment purchase, given that there is a 32 kV transformer station just 65 feet from the building?
boldsailor32 boldsailor32 Active Member
126 messages
joined Feb 2003
#22 ·
Your cell phone likely didn't interfere with the magnetic field readings. Those devices operate at much higher frequencies; you don't measure them in nT, but rather by electric field strength in V/m or power density in W/cm2.

I used to own an analog magnetic field meter with ranges from 20–300 nT and 100–1000 nT. I picked it up at Conrad for about $45, but I eventually got rid of it. The precision just wasn't there, and it lacked any way to calibrate it properly.

What specific device were they using to take those measurements?

In my previous post regarding psychological factors, I explained exactly why I wouldn't consider buying an apartment near a TS tower.

For most of my career, I worked extensively with 6 kV and 35 kV power systems, as well as 1 MW pulsed radar operating at 3.5 GHz. I can honestly say I am very glad to be far away from that environment these days.

When you run that test with the FP blanket, make sure to run a comparison using a standard wool blanket.

We are still waiting to hear swiftscout8's take on this issue.

V.
swiftscout8 swiftscout8 Active Member
87 messages
joined Apr 2007
#23 ·
Kate Diaz 👍

What exactly is EM radiation? It’s simply any combination of electric and magnetic fields. There is always a source behind it. But that isn't really the point here—the real question everyone asks is whether EM radiation is actually harmful. If you ask me, most scientists approach this specific question with far more caution than is actually necessary.

Theoretically, we already know certain types of radiation are harmful. However, we’re still stuck in this endless loop of testing and statistical trials, all just to prove that this damage falls within what they call "normal" limits. That’s exactly where we stand today with cell phones.

Once again, we’re seeing theoretical proofs claiming radiation isn't harmful, yet they spend all their energy desperately hunting for evidence to prove otherwise.

Every wire emits radiation. You have electric and magnetic fields at play here. The electric field is a consequence of voltage, while the magnetic field stems from the current. With direct current, the electric field moves along the conductor, which means you're dealing with a magnetic field that can actually be measured outside the wire.

Alternating current creates an electric field that can—and absolutely will—extend beyond the conductor. When you pair that with a magnetic field, you're looking at electromagnetic radiation. It’s worth digging into this if you want to understand what's actually driving the skin effect.

How much radiation are we actually talking about here? It’s not a simple number. It all comes down to frequency and current.

This means the cord on your nightlight is emitting radiation too, but you haven't bothered to worry about it because the levels are so negligible they aren't even worth a debate. We’re talking about 50Hz systems here, which is exactly what that substation under discussion uses. So, what's the actual difference between a wire powering a nightlight and a transformer station? It comes down to the load—the current—not the voltage. That 30kV external voltage just tells you the substation covers a larger area, meaning it carries a much heavier load than anything on a low-voltage grid. Even though it’s a closed electrical system, the EM radiation from a substation like that is significantly stronger than what you'd get from a low-voltage unit.

So, should we actually be worried about this kind of radiation? If you want an answer, you just have to look at the nature of electromagnetic radiation itself. EM radiation functions in two distinct ways. The photoelectric effect introduced the world to the particle nature of EM radiation. It directly describes certain phenomena that occur during interaction (just look up the photoelectric effect). The energy of an EM quantum increases alongside its frequency. Simply put: higher frequency means higher quantum energy. Take the photoelectric effect as an example: light is used to eject an electron from a Zinc atom. What frequency range are we talking about for that light? We’re looking at the THz range. Meanwhile, here we are discussing 50Hz. Just compare the frequencies and the quantum energy levels of these two types of EM radiation and see for yourself.

So, it turns out light still isn't actually harmful to the human body. We’ve evolved our own built-in defenses against that kind of radiation.

It’s worth looking at two distinct scenarios here: one where we have a confirmed case that could actually be harmful, versus the situation you're describing.

Think about a covalent bond. It’s what holds two non-metal atoms together by sharing an electron. Now, imagine you hit that molecule with radiation intense enough to knock out that specific shared electron. At that exact moment, the molecule ceases to exist. Apply that same logic to DNA. It is quite literally the worst-case scenario.

There’s another, more straightforward scenario where a quick burst of EM radiation disrupts an atom. If you look at the Bohr model, you can see how a single quantum can nudge an electron from one shell to the next. The ionization case—where the electron is kicked completely out of the valence shell—is just a specific, extreme version of this. Because the atom is now in an unnatural, agitated state, it naturally tries to stabilize itself. It wants that electron back in its original position. Eventually, the electron settles back down, but in that process, it releases energy in the form of heat. Of course, it isn't quite that simple. To get the full picture, you really need to dive into materials physics. But there’s your explanation for microwaves and cell phone radiation.

At the end of the day, we’re talking about an electromagnetic quantum that actually possesses enough energy to trigger a reaction. Everything else is just noise; it doesn't affect matter at all. If a quantum lacks the necessary energy, the atom isn't even going to receive it. It’s the same basic principle as a key trying to fit into a lock.

So, what exactly makes something harmful? It’s the radio waves. If you crank up the current frequency and open up a conductor—essentially turning it into an antenna—you end up radiating electromagnetic waves. We know this because we can use shortwave frequencies to communicate with another continent. That proves these emissions are powerful enough to impact the surrounding environment. At frequencies between 3-30 MHz, a mere 100W of effective radiated power (ERP) is enough to send a signal from the US all the way to Australia. That’s unsettling. Yet, somehow, it’s still considered "insufficient" to be deemed harmful. Of course, at higher power levels, the same thing happens.

When we talk about cell phones, we’re looking at frequencies in the 1GHz-3GHz range, with power outputs measured in milliwatts. Harmful? It's certainly much more intense than a transformer station running at 50Hz. And yet, people carry these devices just centimeters away from their brains while they're running at full capacity. We are *still* investigating the actual risks of these devices. But hey, big business needs to keep making money, right?

There. A little scientific perspective on the transformer station issue.😁 Critiques are welcome.😁
boldsailor32 boldsailor32 Active Member
126 messages
joined Feb 2003
#24 ·
Any critiques?

I have none.

Based on your writing, it seems you aren't familiar with studies regarding how electromagnetic radiation affects the human body and living cells. These cells are incredibly sensitive to low-frequency electromagnetic and electric fields, such as those found in 16.5 Hz railway systems and standard 50/60 Hz power grids.

Nor does it seem you know about the four studies conducted on utility workers regarding the incidence of male breast cancer—an extremely rare occurrence otherwise.

I can only point you toward the website for the international organization dedicated to this research.

http://www.bioelectromagnetics.org/

For more detailed information on how electromagnetic fields lower melatonin levels—the hormone that keeps cancer cells in check—you can look up the work of:
Dana Loomis, Ph.D.
Professor, Department of Epidemiology
Environmental Epidemiology, Occupational Epidemiology
Telephone: (919) 966-7433
Email: Dana_Loomis@unc.edu

I must admit, I am surprised by the claim that a bedside nightlight is harmless. Even when turned off, it emits an alternating electric field. Our heads are positioned near it for eight hours a day, every single day, for our entire lives.
People who prioritize their health use an adapter between the outlet and the lamp. When you switch the light off, the adapter disconnects the 220V voltage, leaving the lamp and cable under a 5V DC charge just to detect when it needs to reconnect to the main power.

This isn't some niche thing anymore, even here in the States. I actually own one myself.
To be honest, when I bought it at the store, the clerk didn't have the slightest clue what it was for. 🙂

V.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#25 ·
Casey Palmer5 said:This thread has really taken off. Since we're talking about different types of radiation, what's the deal with groundwater and those Hartmann nodes? Does that actually have a significant impact on your health?
Or even sleeping north-south?

Regarding that north-south sleeping thing, I heard it's supposed to be better to sleep north-south, but a lot depends on other factors too (like groundwater or other types of radiation), so sometimes south-north or even an east-west orientation might feel better.
Right now, I'm sleeping south-north, and I feel great. Honestly, whenever I stay somewhere new, I can immediately sense which direction feels best for sleeping. I don't know if it's just my own suggestion or if I'm actually sensing some kind of radiation. 🙂
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#26 ·
I actually spent a significant portion of my career working with power systems—specifically 6 and 35 kV—and even pulse power radars at 1 MW operating on 3.5 GHz; so, if I may say so, I am quite relieved to have been distanced from that field for the last few years.

Please, do tell me those reasons—I am genuinely curious!

When you eventually run your tests with the Full Point mat, you really ought to measure against a standard wool blanket as well.

No, no... I don't mean measuring how the mats themselves function, but rather testing them alongside "Biodisp"—you know, that stuff you put under your mattress which supposedly uses magnetic strips to deflect EM radiation and such... here is a quote taken directly from the Full Point website!

Biodisp is a product that, for good reason, attracts immense interest. Its primary purpose is to protect against the adverse effects of electromagnetic pollution as well as natural terrestrial radiation (such as water currents or the Hartmann network...). Currently, there are various products on the market claiming to shield against these radiations, but only Biodisp can boast international professional accolades (like Eureka Brussels or Inova Chicago) and tens of thousands of satisfied users throughout Europe. Its uniqueness stems from two fundamental characteristics: being an active form of protection and having a measurable (instrumental) proven effect.

The protective action arises from a permanent magnetic field which, through its energy, repels external influences and provides effective shielding. The Biodisp is designed to be bed-sized so that the entire body remains within its magnetic field, which I suppose is a prerequisite for any successful protection.

In addition to protecting against natural and technical radiation, Biodisp possesses three other vital properties that contribute to healthy and restful sleep:

1. Stabilization of the north-south field
2. Calming the energetic field
3. Stimulating and balancing bodily energy

The Biodisp is constructed so that the head area maintains a north magnetic pole; this way, regardless of the Earth's natural magnetic field, our bodies—when lying on the Biodisp—will always have the head positioned toward the north magnetic pole and the feet toward the south.

Biodisp neutralizes irritating and harmful radiation effects, promotes full-body relaxation, improves mental control, stimulates the body's immune system, and activates cellular metabolism.

For the body to rest, it requires an energetically calm field, which is often not achieved. Distortions and irregularities are introduced into the field by mattress springs, various electronic devices in the bedroom (lamps, digital clocks, TVs, radios...), electromagnetic fields from external sources, natural radiation from water flows, or the Hartmann network... Biodisp calms the field around the bed, allowing for relaxation and thus providing the body with favorable conditions for rest.

The effects of calming the specific bed field are best illustrated by the measurement results shown in the two images below. In the background of the first image, we see an energetically turbulent field recorded on the bed without the Biodisp, while the foreground shows the state of that same bed after placing the Biodisp. The right image displays the average energetic state measured over time for the case without Biodisp (shown in purple) and with the Biodisp installed (shown in blue). The calm energetic field created by the Biodisp is quite obvious.


What I have "bolded" is exactly what I intend to prove... once I have completed my checks, I will let you all know!!

EDIT:
Which specific device did they use to measure the field for you?

I am not entirely certain—perhaps it is listed under "Instruments" on the Full Point website, but you might be able to infer it from this...
We actually called a technician from Full Point to come out and take a reading (this was after a previous measurement showed an intensity of roughly 250 nT). The first guy arrived and insisted the apartment was perfectly fine. To be honest, I found that quite hard to believe—given that this is a massive substation, it just didn't seem right. So, we decided to call a different representative from Full Point. This second individual performed the measurement and concluded that the apartment was definitely *not* okay if the electromagnetic field strength is hovering around 250 nT. He mentioned that according to European Union standards, that level is about ten times higher than what is permitted—he said the limit is somewhere around, I don't know, 20 or 30 nT? When we pointed out to him that someone else had used that exact same device and claimed everything was fine, he seemed genuinely surprised. We explained that it was an older gentleman who had done the initial testing, and then he recalled that he had actually lent that specific instrument to that man two or three weeks ago—and apparently, the older gentleman still isn't quite sure how to operate it properly. It turns out he had been measuring electric field strength (in volts per meter) rather than the actual electromagnetic field strength.
My impression from all this is that it must be a newer device... especially since it isn't even listed on the Full Point website (yet).
Casey Palmer5 Casey Palmer5 Regular
470 messages
joined Jan 2016
#27 ·
Personally, I’ve had quite a bit of professional exposure to intense electromagnetic radiation. To give you an idea, the strength of one of those "magnetic" devices we use can hit anywhere from 70 to 100 mT, with frequencies ranging from 1 to 60 Hz. And believe me, when you have several of these units running in a small room, you don't want to be stuck in there for very long...

And if I told you that this stuff is basically just a placebo, offering maybe some tiny clinical benefits while the staff ends up sitting in that field for hours every single day—well, let's just say I'm not looking to work in government facilities, especially if there's even a slight chance of getting pregnant and having to deal with that kind of environment.

Plus, there are so many other things out there emitting nasty levels of radiation, but I won't even start listing them all...
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#28 ·
70-100 mT

Did they mean millitesla or nanotesla?? Because if we are talking about 70 to 100 MILLITESLA, then that is far too much—I mean, nano is 1E-9 (ten to the power of negative nine), whereas milli is 1E-3 (ten to the power of negative three)... so there is a MASSIVE difference there, isn't there?
Casey Palmer5 Casey Palmer5 Regular
470 messages
joined Jan 2016
#29 ·
What I was saying is, exactly...

When you're holding a regular magnet in your hand, you can actually feel that pulsing sensation right in your palm, even from a few feet away from the device.

The average operating value sits at around 20mT. I was just checking the specs on one of those units, and they all seem pretty much identical...
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#30 ·
Casey Palmer5 said:I stated quite clearly that... maybe...

When you hold a standard magnet in your hand, you can actually feel a pulsing sensation—not just in your palm, but extending out a few feet from the device itself.

The average operating value sits at about 20mT. I was just reviewing the specifications for one of those units, and most others seem to follow a very similar pattern.

That really is quite high—but I wonder, would 250 nT (nanotesla) be considered a lot, considering that's where I'll be living...
Casey Palmer5 Casey Palmer5 Regular
470 messages
joined Jan 2016
#31 ·
I don't know, you've gotta make a call on this one. Personally, I wouldn't do it—I'm totally on board with what boldsailor32 was saying.
Casey Palmer5 Casey Palmer5 Regular
470 messages
joined Jan 2016
#32 ·
http://www.telecomlab.gr/2002/oct/rh...eedingsA_Z.htm
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#33 ·
I took a quick look at that website—and I noticed they were conducting animal studies using a 60 Hz magnetic field at a strength of 2.3 mT (militesla), which is significantly higher than what the guy actually measured—but I suppose, just to be safe, I should arrange for a more "professional" measurement...

EDIT:
Personally, I feel it might be MUCH more dangerous to live near high-voltage transmission lines, given that many of them exceed 300 kV, and there isn't really any buffer "between" your house and those lines—whereas a substation is at least "shielded" by a wall...
But if it turns out that the Full Point Biodisp doesn't work, and the field is (actually) ten times stronger than the legal limit, then I guess the apartment is a lost cause...
swiftscout8 swiftscout8 Active Member
87 messages
joined Apr 2007
#34 ·
boldsailor32 said:Dealing with radars pushing 1 MW pulse power at 3.5 GHz? Honestly, I’m just relieved to be staying far away from that kind of setup lately.

I feel the same way. With that much power, you could practically cook your eyes if you get too close.

P.S. It feels like everyone here is out looking for witches to burn. You're all hunting for some groundbreaking new way EM fields interact with matter. Maybe you'll stumble onto gunpowder. Who knows!? 😁 Perhaps EM radiation acts on the soul in ways we haven't even realized yet. Or maybe we're all just remote-controlled robots, and substation radiation is nothing more than signal interference. 😂

👋
Sam Gonzalez67 Sam Gonzalez67 Member
15 messages
joined Dec 2004
#35 ·
I honestly don't have the energy right now to go digging through PubMed for all those studies from the top-tier medical journals—you know, the ones showing how much higher the rates of acute leukemia are in children whose mothers were exposed to things like electric blankets during pregnancy and whatnot... there is plenty of research out there, but I just can't bring myself to cite it all because my paranoia starts kicking in and I just can't deal with it

At my workplace, we've got several computers, some lasers, and I’m pretty sure there are at least two transformers tucked away under my desk...

I really just need someone to tell me it's okay and reassure me that none of this stuff is actually radiating me... please... 😢 😢 😢
Zachary Rodriguez32 Zachary Rodriguez32 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Feb 2006
#36 ·
Does anyone happen to know of a company in the Chicago area that provides more professional-grade electromagnetic field strength measurements?
boldsailor32 boldsailor32 Active Member
126 messages
joined Feb 2003
#37 ·
I shared this address with you in one of my previous posts:

*************************
You can find more information here:
info@zik.hr,

Phone: +1 212 555 0199
*************************

V.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#38 ·
(Do EM fields affect us while we're awake, and can magnetic fields actually block EM radiation? If anyone else has thoughts on this, you're welcome! 😁

Hey there. Here’s my take. Electromagnetic fields impact us in several ways. They can basically "build up" on our bodies via synthetic materials—it's that jarring sensation you get when you touch a doorknob and feel a static shock. These fields also accumulate within walls due to reinforced concrete structures and wiring, then radiate through the air. This process affects air ionization, creating an excess of positive ions, which is often why a room starts feeling "stuffy" or heavy.
This is especially common in office environments.
Because our nervous system relies on bioelectrical signals to transmit information, these fields hit us hardest while we sleep. They essentially mess with our body's internal "alarm system" (the cerebellum), keeping the organism in a state of high alert. This prevents deep, restorative sleep and can lead to serious health issues over time. Even the metal springs in a mattress can facilitate contact with these fields, potentially triggering autoimmune issues by flipping cellular polarity.
A so-called Bioavailability shield doesn't just reflect EM radiation with a magnetic field; instead, it uses an EM absorber to polarize the radiation, effectively preventing it from reaching you.
EM radiation falls under the category of non-ionizing radiation.
The fact that these can be harmful to humans has been known for a long time. There is even a commission within the WHO that advises governments on necessary legal regulations.

EDIT: Are there any other ways to reduce EM radiation exposure?
There are. That’s why there are legal regulations, though they haven't been fully implemented here yet. For instance, before construction begins, the terrain should be tested for soil composition, water currents, geological faults, and so on, as all of these factors can cause issues later on. It’s also vital that a house or building is wired correctly and that the grounding is properly installed (not just dumped into the "water").

Best,
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#39 ·
Radiation. The real issue here is that nobody actually follows the safety regulations
At the very least, cables, transformers, and similar gear shouldn't be sitting right on the floor or cluttering around your feet. Sitting for long periods already slows down your circulation, and synthetic fabrics tend to build up static electricity—just think about those annoying shocks you get from car door handles or doorknobs—which further hampers blood flow. Beyond just circulatory issues (like vein problems), this can even impact how your body absorbs calcium for bone density (think osteoporosis). That’s why women often face a higher risk.

At my office, we've got several computers, laser printers, and I'm pretty sure there are at least two transformers tucked right under my desk...

Someone please tell me I'm not being blasted by radiation all day... please... 😢 😢 😢 [/B]
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#40 ·
Vještac says:
"I honestly think the 'measurements' from http://full-point are pretty much useless; I've double-checked them several times now."

How exactly did you go about verifying that? Cheers!

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