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Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Started by Morgan Williams · · 👁 818 views · 18K replies

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Participants Morgan WilliamsRachel Cooper3Joseph Clark37Keith Patel81darkseal9neonfalcon16urbanhawk17Amanda Evans2bluebison47brightpilot6Patrick MartinJoseph Fisher3steelharbor9Robin Fox2Maria AndersonAnthony Jackson2Jason Newmanruggedjackal46Michelle Palmer6Jeffrey Edwards76Jason Campbell70Anthony Barrett37graniteangler31Dennis Evans6 …
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5181 ·
If Odyssey showed us just how much like tiny mice we are compared to the vastness of space—or how insignificant our lives and our entire species are against the ancient age of Earth and the universe—then Interstellar proved exactly how little we actually grasp about any of it.

Setting aside the heavy existential questions, Interstellar does an incredible job of highlighting how flawed our perception of linear time and three-dimensional space truly is. The final scenes might lean a bit too hard into sentimentality for some, but I haven't seen another film tackle the issues of temporal causality and spacetime perception quite like this one.
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5182 ·
The temporal nonlinearity depicted in the film implies actual time travel, which brings along all those messy logical paradoxes.

In my humble, non-expert opinion, the communication breakdown between MCC and his young daughter in that scene beyond the black hole horizon follows the logic that time travel allows us to alter the past—or at least what the traveler perceives as the past—only to the extent that we don't trigger a logical paradox.

If MCC had been able to step into that room, he could have theoretically killed his daughter or even himself. That would create a massive paradox regarding his own existence and the very act of that murder. I am fairly certain there are serious scientific papers on this subject demonstrating how time travel wouldn't allow you to change the "past" in such a direct way.
Jessica Gonzalez Jessica Gonzalez Regular
769 messages
joined Mar 2012
#5183 ·
I guess the discussion is going exactly how you'd expect.
Jessica Gonzalez Jessica Gonzalez Regular
769 messages
joined Mar 2012
#5184 ·
It’s not that I hate "Interstellar," but I feel like it's a pretty banal movie with some fairly predictable direction, just like someone else mentioned earlier. It feels like it's on the same level as "Armageddon"—that specific kind of blockbuster. You have a crew basically driving a Jeep through a comet, grabbing straws, and arguing over who gets to be the hero. Those are just the tropes, but I guess the creators of "Armageddon" were at least honest enough not to try and sell it as deep philosophy.
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5185 ·
SPOILER, if you haven't seen Interstellar yet:

GQ, regarding that whole bit about finding the hangar and the back-and-forth argument between you and zzov over that scene—it wasn't just a lucky guess on his part. His daughter actually gave him the coordinates, because he sent them to her from the future.
Patrick Martin Patrick Martin Regular
702 messages
joined Aug 2015
#5186 ·
boldfox88 said:If Odyssey showed us just how much like tiny mice we are compared to the vastness of space—or how insignificant our lives and our entire species are against the ancient age of Earth and the universe—then Interstellar proved exactly how little we actually grasp about any of it.

Setting aside the heavy existential questions, Interstellar does an incredible job of highlighting how flawed our perception of linear time and three-dimensional space truly is. The final scenes might lean a bit too hard into sentimentality for some, but I haven't seen another film tackle the issues of temporal causality and spacetime perception quite like this one.


but that's why Kubrick was such a phenomenon when it came to portraying other human traits and virtues,
just look at that dance between art and technology out on the silent cosmic horizon

A picture is worth a thousand words; I don't need all that chatter parading around in a close-up like she's just memorized a bunch of big text for a school recital.
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5187 ·
I completely agree. Odyssey is an absolute masterpiece, truly one of a kind. Honestly, I doubt even ZZu would be posting about it if they hadn't watched it specifically just to come here and tear it apart. 😁

And let's be real, Interstellar is also a brilliant film. You simply cannot dismiss it as some mindless modern flick.
Patrick Bailey4 Patrick Bailey4 Active Member
72 messages
joined May 2014
#5188 ·
Odyssey is definitely an incredibly overrated movie. I hate using the word "better," but Interstellar is certainly a much more engaging film.
James Anderson5 James Anderson5 Regular
460 messages
joined Jan 2010
#5189 ·
Jessica Gonzalez said:It’s not that I hate "Interstellar," but I feel like it's a pretty banal movie with some fairly predictable direction, just like someone else mentioned earlier. It feels like it's on the same level as "Armageddon"—that specific kind of blockbuster. You have a crew basically driving a Jeep through a comet, grabbing straws, and arguing over who gets to be the hero. Those are just the tropes, but I guess the creators of "Armageddon" were at least honest enough not to try and sell it as deep philosophy.

Interstellar can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Odyssey. The first one is totally trivialized by its pathetic plot and content (forcing romance where it doesn't belong, plus all that hovering around the relationship between the dad and his daughter), whereas the second one is elevated to actual art...

ZZ simplified the whole plot of Odyssey way too much—you know, aliens show up, they set a monolith, and suddenly we're evolved to a higher level. I see it differently. Odyssey deals with fundamental philosophical questions—what is consciousness, what is existence, and what drives us to ask where, how, and why compared to other animal species, especially since we were just hunting mammoths in packs not that long ago. The monolith is symbolism for the mystery of those answers, not a simple answer itself, because at the end of the day, nobody actually knows where it came from or what lies behind it; it just represents a symbol of human initiation. Odyssey doesn't hand you answers, it points toward the questions, which makes it wise rather than pretentious, unlike Interstellar, which is essentially just commercial...

The first time, the monolith represented the start of our conquest of the planet, and the second time, it symbolized the beginning of our journey into space, always reminding us that there's something greater than ourselves and how mysterious and deep that story truly is. Plus, back then, it explored the limits of AI development and reminded us that the universe and the world around us aren't just logical puzzles (unlike in Interstellar, where everything boils down to logic, intelligence, and the bond between a father and daughter or a couple as if that's the peak of our existence), but that the cosmos is also infinitely lonely, deep, and dark, yet simultaneously beautiful and magnificent in its untouchability. That's probably why Strauss was chosen for the music...

Interstellar suggests we are defined by our relationships with others, but Odyssey suggests we are defined by our relationship with ourselves, which then flows into our connections with everything else. That's why the whole story only features one main character and an AI he's trying to outsmart...
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5190 ·
What kind of AI is this guy trying to outsmart?

The truth is, we really are social creatures who rely on one another. Our collective progress as a civilization has long since surpassed what any single individual could ever achieve alone. It’s essentially the result of our entire species working as one massive team. Because of that, we are defined more by our connections to others than by our relationship with ourselves (whatever that internal concept even means). More importantly, the Flynn effect demonstrates just how much the quality of our social environment dictates the development of intelligence—our greatest competitive advantage over every other species on Earth.
vivideagle7 vivideagle7 Active Member
135 messages
joined Oct 2014
#5191 ·
boldfox88 said:What kind of AI is this guy trying to outsmart?

The truth is, we really are social creatures who rely on one another. Our collective progress as a civilization has long since surpassed what any single individual could ever achieve alone. It’s essentially the result of our entire species working as one massive team. Because of that, we are defined more by our connections to others than by our relationship with ourselves (whatever that internal concept even means). More importantly, the Flynn effect demonstrates just how much the quality of our social environment dictates the development of intelligence—our greatest competitive advantage over every other species on Earth.

It’s honestly pretty hard to spot that in the movie. And yeah, he’s definitely trying to outmaneuver it—trying to shut it down once it has completely taken over them.
boldfox88 said:What kind of AI is this guy trying to outsmart?

The truth is, we really are social creatures who rely on one another. Our collective progress as a civilization has long since surpassed what any single individual could ever achieve alone. It’s essentially the result of our entire species working as one massive team. Because of that, we are defined more by our connections to others than by our relationship with ourselves (whatever that internal concept even means). More importantly, the Flynn effect demonstrates just how much the quality of our social environment dictates the development of intelligence—our greatest competitive advantage over every other species on Earth.

Well, Flynn was looking at IQ tests, which are just "supposed" to measure intelligence. Are you seriously suggesting that social quality has improved compared to where we were fifty years ago? Sure, maybe we've leveled up technologically, but socially? Not really.
Patrick Martin Patrick Martin Regular
702 messages
joined Aug 2015
#5192 ·
boldfox88 said:I completely agree. Odyssey is an absolute masterpiece, truly one of a kind. Honestly, I doubt even ZZu would be posting about it if they hadn't watched it specifically just to come here and tear it apart. 😁

And let's be real, Interstellar is also a brilliant film. You simply cannot dismiss it as some mindless modern flick.

It’s totally unbelievable. People just constantly let Nolan slide with whatever he does,
why is this massive pile of nonsense always tolerated and even cheered for when it's his name on the credits
but the second Scott starts fighting off MONSTRUMS, everyone starts nitpicking every single tiny detail?

where's the fairness? WHY the double standards?
vivideagle7 vivideagle7 Active Member
135 messages
joined Oct 2014
#5193 ·
Patrick Martin said:It’s totally unbelievable. People just constantly let Nolan slide with whatever he does,
why is this massive pile of nonsense always tolerated and even cheered for when it's his name on the credits
but the second Scott starts fighting off MONSTRUMS, everyone starts nitpicking every single tiny detail?

where's the fairness? WHY the double standards?

I mean, I read those first two sentences and I’m right there with you, totally agree, but then you bring up Scott, and honestly, if you start mentioning him, the Nolan fanboys aren't going to take us seriously at all.🤦
Jessica Gonzalez Jessica Gonzalez Regular
769 messages
joined Mar 2012
#5194 ·
boldfox88 said:SPOILER, if you haven't seen Interstellar yet:

GQ, regarding that whole bit about finding the hangar and the back-and-forth argument between you and zzov over that scene—it wasn't just a lucky guess on his part. His daughter actually gave him the coordinates, because he sent them to her from the future.

I have my own theory on how he found that hangar. What feels a bit off to me is how the entire command center just smiles and tells him he’s leading humanity's biggest mission tomorrow after he shows up. If they already knew who he was, why didn't they just call him earlier? Why didn't he go through months of training? It's like some guy walks off the street and suddenly becomes Neil Armstrong x 1000. I guess it works because it's Nolan, and Nolan knows what he's doing. He seems to prioritize style over basic plot logic in almost all his movies.

I suppose time will tell. In 50 years, Odyssey might be just as respected as it is today, but I'm not quite sure how influential Interstellar will be.
Patrick Martin Patrick Martin Regular
702 messages
joined Aug 2015
#5195 ·
Prometheus is basically just ripping off Interstellar with its dialogue☕
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#5196 ·
If you swap out that monolith for some old man with a white beard, you basically have a space-age sci-fi version of the Bible. That was my takeaway the first time I sat through the movie, and honestly, I haven't been able to shake it since.

The old man with the white beard jumpstarts intelligent life on Earth, then steps back to watch whether that life actually "qualifies" for the next stage of existence. He leaves behind these artifacts we can't quite wrap our heads around, which act as breadcrumbs guiding us toward that next level. Even the events in the room feel less like science fiction and more like a purgatory before a final rebirth into some higher state of being.

In that sense, I don't really see any profound existential depth in the film, because Odyssey suggests our journey is initiated by a higher power, overseen by that same entity, and concludes only when it decides it's over. And why is it all set up this way—why were we created in the first place (are we just playthings, perhaps an ant farm in some divine nursery?) and why are we forced to struggle while being watched instead of simply being helped? It’s all as logically straightforward as the Bible. There isn't much to ponder there; it just is what it is.

By comparison, I find Interstellar to be far more challenging and resonant, primarily because it engages with the relationship between the individual and the collective, our responsibilities to our neighbors and the rest of humanity, and the interplay between our current lives and the future legacies we leave behind.

I notice people keep bringing up how "sentimental" or pathetic it is. Personally, I don't see Interstellar as being overly dramatic or leaning too hard into cheap emotions. To me, it depicts very standard, everyday feelings that serve as the actual catalysts for human action.

Love or goodness acting as a fundamental element of the universe? Why not? Is it because you guys are soccer fans? Lol. Almost everything we do, from our smallest gestures to our greatest achievements, is driven by love for something, whether directly or indirectly. Sure, we could reduce everything down to cold naturalism and selfish genes, but I don't see why that should be treated as a punchline or something to mock out of hand.

@ruggedjackal46

You seem to interpret those long sequences versus the rapid jumps as a way of showing how insignificant we are in the cosmos. But here is the flip side: that sudden, lightning-fast leap from primates to space travel could easily be read the exact opposite way. It shows just how little time it took us, on a cosmic scale, to go from monkeys to having established bases on the Moon. Monkeys, CAP! Bases on the Moon, CAP! We’re already at Jupiter. Someone watching that progression might see it not as a display of our insignificance, but as proof of how inherently superior humans are to their environment.
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5197 ·
vivideagle7 said:It’s honestly pretty hard to spot that in the movie. And yeah, he’s definitely trying to outmaneuver it—trying to shut it down once it has completely taken over them.

Well, Flynn was looking at IQ tests, which are just "supposed" to measure intelligence. Are you seriously suggesting that social quality has improved compared to where we were fifty years ago? Sure, maybe we've leveled up technologically, but socially? Not really.

Are you thinking about that little robot Matt Damon used to get rid of? That's just a tiny fraction of the plot.

Flynn has been looking closely at IQ tests—those things that supposedly measure intelligence. Tell me, do you honestly think our social fabric has improved compared to how things were fifty years ago? We might have made massive leaps in technology, but when it comes to our quality of life and social cohesion, we haven't moved an inch.

IQ tests aren't some absolute, flawless measurement of intelligence—not even when you're just looking at logical reasoning—but they serve as a solid benchmark. Over the last 50 years, the standard of living in developed nations like the US has climbed steadily. Regardless of your personal take on it, technological progress has fundamentally improved life in these societies. We have better living conditions, easier access to information, and instant connectivity with people all over the country. From an evolutionary standpoint, this shift has triggered a massive jump in average IQ scores. It leads to a pretty straightforward conclusion: society plays a massive role in driving an individual's intellectual advancement.
Patrick Martin said:It’s totally unbelievable. People just constantly let Nolan slide with whatever he does,
why is this massive pile of nonsense always tolerated and even cheered for when it's his name on the credits
but the second Scott starts fighting off MONSTRUMS, everyone starts nitpicking every single tiny detail?

where's the fairness? WHY the double standards?

What kind of mess are we dealing with here? Is it a heap of factual errors, logical fallacies, or just plain bad writing?
vivideagle7 vivideagle7 Active Member
135 messages
joined Oct 2014
#5198 ·
boldfox88 said:Are you thinking about that little robot Matt Damon used to get rid of? That's just a tiny fraction of the plot.

Flynn has been looking closely at IQ tests—those things that supposedly measure intelligence. Tell me, do you honestly think our social fabric has improved compared to how things were fifty years ago? We might have made massive leaps in technology, but when it comes to our quality of life and social cohesion, we haven't moved an inch.

IQ tests aren't some absolute, flawless measurement of intelligence—not even when you're just looking at logical reasoning—but they serve as a solid benchmark. Over the last 50 years, the standard of living in developed nations like the US has climbed steadily. Regardless of your personal take on it, technological progress has fundamentally improved life in these societies. We have better living conditions, easier access to information, and instant connectivity with people all over the country. From an evolutionary standpoint, this shift has triggered a massive jump in average IQ scores. It leads to a pretty straightforward conclusion: society plays a massive role in driving an individual's intellectual advancement.

What kind of mess are we dealing with here? Is it a heap of factual errors, logical fallacies, or just plain bad writing?

Sorry, my bad. I thought you were talking about Odyssey.
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#5199 ·
Jessica Gonzalez said:I have my own theory on how he found that hangar. What feels a bit off to me is how the entire command center just smiles and tells him he’s leading humanity's biggest mission tomorrow after he shows up. If they already knew who he was, why didn't they just call him earlier? Why didn't he go through months of training? It's like some guy walks off the street and suddenly becomes Neil Armstrong x 1000. I guess it works because it's Nolan, and Nolan knows what he's doing. He seems to prioritize style over basic plot logic in almost all his movies.

I suppose time will tell. In 50 years, Odyssey might be just as respected as it is today, but I'm not quite sure how influential Interstellar will be.

He actually did complete the training for that flight. The movie shows it happening at the beginning, and it's reinforced later on.

It isn't as if he ended up there by accident, nor did his journey happen to conclude at that exact moment by sheer luck.

Who is to say the launch was set for the very next day? How much real-time were we actually supposed to witness between his arrival at the hangar and the actual liftoff?

If I wanted to get a bit more poetic about it, I might suggest that leap serves as a subtle illustration of just how insignificant we truly are compared to the vastness of the universe. 😳
boldfox88 boldfox88 Active Member
130 messages
joined Aug 2012
#5200 ·
Jessica Gonzalez said:I have my own theory on how he found that hangar. What feels a bit off to me is how the entire command center just smiles and tells him he’s leading humanity's biggest mission tomorrow after he shows up. If they already knew who he was, why didn't they just call him earlier? Why didn't he go through months of training? It's like some guy walks off the street and suddenly becomes Neil Armstrong x 1000. I guess it works because it's Nolan, and Nolan knows what he's doing. He seems to prioritize style over basic plot logic in almost all his movies.

I suppose time will tell. In 50 years, Odyssey might be just as respected as it is today, but I'm not quite sure how influential Interstellar will be.

But the guy was a trained NASA pilot.🤷

They didn't reach out because they didn't even know if he was alive. The world was in total chaos back then, and there wasn't a Pep Guardiola around to save the day.

Besides, why waste screen time on trivial flight prep details like they did in Rocky, when there were much more important things to cover before the movie ended?

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