Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Anthony Jackson2 said:Honestly, we should just bring in workers from overseas at $167 a month—it's the only way our local "entrepreneurs" can actually stay afloat ☕

Shouldn't we be looking into implementing a federal minimum wage? It feels like the right time to have this conversation. $3333 ☕

restlesssurfer97 said:I bet this bit of news is going to make Charles Chase4 absolutely lose his mind with joy

Yes, I must admit, it was quite a pleasant surprise.
I suppose I would have been even more pleased if he had suggested some actually decent spots instead of just shutting things down entirely, but what can you do? Even this version was somewhat enjoyable.

There's more to come. This isn't over yet.

According to recent data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average weekly work hours here in the States are among the lowest in the developed world. If that’s the case, shouldn't we be looking deeper? If people aren't even working full tilt, then the issue clearly isn't just the cost of labor. It has to be something else entirely.

And then there’s this guy. He had some kid working for him for a mere $3,000?$1167It’s honestly a bit pathetic when you look at the competition. You have this miserable employer losing talent to companies that actually understand the value of paying people what they're worth. Is it really that hard to offer a fair wage? Apparently, for some, yes.

restlesssurfer97 said:@ironpanther5, man, people just don't get that markets basically regulate themselves, provided you have those necessary government guardrails in place, but the real headache starts when those state regulations kick in, because look, if America offered business conditions on par with what they have in Ireland, then American employers would actually be able to offer competitive wages, and honestly, anyone who refuses to step up like that is just going to end up struggling to find any decent talent, so there's your answer right there.

What really cracks me up is how some folks seem to think an American employer is out here trying to drive a beat-up old bike while the Irish guy is cruising in a BMW, which is why the Irish guy can afford to pay more, but that's not it at all, see, it's more that Irish employers are just socially conscious, they're basically socialists at heart. 🤦

The issue is that American employers don't know how to value talent—they operate on the "if you won't do it, someone else will" mentality. If you head over to Ireland, you might start with a mediocre job and a lousy paycheck, but if you actually kill it, people notice—and that leads to better terms and better pay. Here in the States, you get stuck with a bad job and low wages, then once you finally master the role, they just pile another shitty task on top of your plate—because if you’re efficient, they figure you have extra time. They'll throw some nonsense your way too, and when you realize you're doing the work of two people, asking for a raise just gets a shrug and a pathetic sob story about why there's no budget. Meanwhile, the boss's kid gets handed a new promotion while everyone else struggles. That's the difference.

Matthew Young35 said:Yes, I must admit, it was quite a pleasant surprise.
I suppose I would have been even more pleased if he had suggested some actually decent spots instead of just shutting things down entirely, but what can you do? Even this version was somewhat enjoyable.

There's more to come. This isn't over yet.

According to recent data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average weekly work hours here in the States are among the lowest in the developed world. If that’s the case, shouldn't we be looking deeper? If people aren't even working full tilt, then the issue clearly isn't just the cost of labor. It has to be something else entirely.

And then there’s this guy. He had some kid working for him for a mere $3,000?$1167It’s honestly a bit pathetic when you look at the competition. You have this miserable employer losing talent to companies that actually understand the value of paying people what they're worth. Is it really that hard to offer a fair wage? Apparently, for some, yes.

Whatever.

As soon as I saw that—it was obvious what we were dealing with. Just your typical American entrepreneur—the kind who’d try to run five different restaurants with a total staff of fifteen people working two and a half shifts—and he’d expect them all to work for minimum wage, obviously. 🙏

Let him go down with the rest of them—honestly, who cares.

The sheer amount of bias here is just unreal. Seriously.

And honestly, blaming entrepreneurs for a failing economy or the state of this backwater town we live in is a massive level of stupidity. Forgive me if that sounds harsh, but I don't really know how else to put it.

Whatever, I guess now American workers and their Irish bosses will just ride bicycles to work together.😂

I couldn't care less, actually; if anything, I’d love to see more of this happening until every single business and corporation shuts down for good. And frankly, everything seems to be heading that way. I realized a long time ago that sometimes you need a kick in the ass to actually move forward.
The only ones who are going to end up starving are the philosophers, those types like some guy from a local college campus$0.00 clutching my money while waving a communist flag out the window, a Cuban cigar in his mouth, and an iPhone sitting on the table that was cobbled together by tiny hands in a factory overseas. And his followers? There's no shortage of them.
As for the rest of us, we'll figure it out—we're used to working for a living.

restlesssurfer97 said:The sheer amount of bias here is just unreal. Seriously.

And honestly, blaming entrepreneurs for a failing economy or the state of this backwater town we live in is a massive level of stupidity. Forgive me if that sounds harsh, but I don't really know how else to put it.

Whatever, I guess now American workers and their Irish bosses will just ride bicycles to work together.😂

I couldn't care less, actually; if anything, I’d love to see more of this happening until every single business and corporation shuts down for good. And frankly, everything seems to be heading that way. I realized a long time ago that sometimes you need a kick in the ass to actually move forward.
The only ones who are going to end up starving are the philosophers, those types like some guy from a local college campus$0.00 clutching my money while waving a communist flag out the window, a Cuban cigar in his mouth, and an iPhone sitting on the table that was cobbled together by tiny hands in a factory overseas. And his followers? There's no shortage of them.
As for the rest of us, we'll figure it out—we're used to working for a living.

And what exactly defines "bias" in this context?
Is it complaining because a kid you hired for $30 an hour decided to jump ship to a competitor?$1167 Or is it pointing out that we have some of the lowest hourly wages in the entire country?

Matthew Young35 said:Yes, I must admit, it was quite a pleasant surprise.
I suppose I would have been even more pleased if he had suggested some actually decent spots instead of just shutting things down entirely, but what can you do? Even this version was somewhat enjoyable.

There's more to come. This isn't over yet.

According to recent data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average weekly work hours here in the States are among the lowest in the developed world. If that’s the case, shouldn't we be looking deeper? If people aren't even working full tilt, then the issue clearly isn't just the cost of labor. It has to be something else entirely.

And then there’s this guy. He had some kid working for him for a mere $3,000?$1167It’s honestly a bit pathetic when you look at the competition. You have this miserable employer losing talent to companies that actually understand the value of paying people what they're worth. Is it really that hard to offer a fair wage? Apparently, for some, yes.

Just walk me through this one more time, though.

The way I’m reading the situation—and tell me if I’m totally off base here—is that you basically think he believed he couldn't pull in $100,000, so he settled for $50,000, and since that wasn't enough to make it worth his while, he decided to just close shop entirely rather than offer better pay and settle for that $50,000 mark.

Is that really how it went down? Feel free to set me straight if I'm tripping.

Does anyone here genuinely believe that market mechanisms operate independently of massive capital flows? How can one argue that they do when single corporations—let alone entire global industries—possess more influence than most sovereign nations?

What a complete delusion.

Matthew Young35 said:And what exactly defines "bias" in this context?
Is it complaining because a kid you hired for $30 an hour decided to jump ship to a competitor?$1167 Or is it pointing out that we have some of the lowest hourly wages in the entire country?

So basically, you read this article and immediately decided the guy went to jail just because of that one employee leaving for a rival firm, which honestly means you're just supercharged on biases since you can't even look at a basic news story without letting assumptions cloud your judgment.

And I mean, you immediately jumped down this entrepreneur's throat, whereas I’m just speaking in generalities and not even commenting on how this specific dude runs his business, but you're already out here trashing him over a single sentence in the whole piece, and yeah, we all know he's the type to exploit workers.

Nice job.

It honestly drives me crazy seeing people trash talk restaurant owners, you know, those regulars who spend half their lives sitting in coffee shops just to sit there and badmouth the guys running the place.

I mean, how do you even wrap your head around that? Is it just that classic American envy? Like, everyone secretly wishes they were the boss of some local diner, so they act bitter because they can't pull it off?

Look, if I were actually struggling to put food on the table, I wouldn't be out here trying to open a cafe; I worked my way up through service jobs back when I was a college student, and I realized pretty quickly that it’s not just a grind for the staff, it’s an absolute nightmare for most of the owners too. But whatever, the patrons love to talk smack about the owners, acting like they're some kind of class enemies. 😂

restlesssurfer97 said:So basically, you read this article and immediately decided the guy went to jail just because of that one employee leaving for a rival firm, which honestly means you're just supercharged on biases since you can't even look at a basic news story without letting assumptions cloud your judgment.

And I mean, you immediately jumped down this entrepreneur's throat, whereas I’m just speaking in generalities and not even commenting on how this specific dude runs his business, but you're already out here trashing him over a single sentence in the whole piece, and yeah, we all know he's the type to exploit workers.

Nice job.

I've lived enough years to have seen plenty of shady characters across the United States.
I understand how things work here in America.

The reason I took a stance is that I already know exactly what kind of employers we're dealing with.

Sure, there are decent bosses out there; they aren't non-existent. But those people don't go crying to the press about "labor shortages" when all they really want is to pay someone $500 a month.

restlesssurfer97 said:Just walk me through this one more time, though.

The way I’m reading the situation—and tell me if I’m totally off base here—is that you basically think he believed he couldn't pull in $100,000, so he settled for $50,000, and since that wasn't enough to make it worth his while, he decided to just close shop entirely rather than offer better pay and settle for that $50,000 mark.

Is that really how it went down? Feel free to set me straight if I'm tripping.

So that's the gist of it, right? That's the logic you're running with?

restlesssurfer97 said:So that's the gist of it, right? That's the logic you're running with?

Perhaps not quite like that, but you aren't far off.

brightpilot6 said:Does anyone here genuinely believe that market mechanisms operate independently of massive capital flows? How can one argue that they do when single corporations—let alone entire global industries—possess more influence than most sovereign nations?

What a complete delusion.

Exactly, a complete delusion. And honestly, I haven't seen anyone here actually claiming otherwise.

You look at a place like Ireland, where the government lures in companies like Google using these tax loopholes that fly in the face of international standards, basically padding their own treasury while putting an unfair strain on everyone else in the economy.

Then you look at the situation here in America, where the government plays favorites by funneling resources into these hand-picked, politically connected firms, which basically just guts any other healthy business trying to compete fairly.

In both scenarios, it all boils down to exactly what you pointed out earlier.

Matthew Young35 said:Perhaps not quite like that, but you aren't far off.

Look, I'm not saying this is about being weighed down by the government or the American state, because I've noticed things getting a little messy and mixed up in these debates lately, but if they can't offer a higher salary—or if they do offer one, they'd basically be operating at a loss—then what's the deal?

So you're telling me they're consciously choosing to walk away from profit just because... well, honestly, the reason doesn't even matter that much, the point is they are making a conscious choice to lose money. Whatever, everyone's entitled to their own take on things, you and me included, all five of us.

I really just want to hammer this home one more time, when we're talking about entrepreneurs, we have to make a super clear distinction between those small-time operations run by networks of cousins and buddies, and actual entrepreneurs who play by the rules of the market and the laws of the land here in the States. It's a massive point for this whole conversation.

restlesssurfer97 said:Look, I'm not saying this is about being weighed down by the government or the American state, because I've noticed things getting a little messy and mixed up in these debates lately, but if they can't offer a higher salary—or if they do offer one, they'd basically be operating at a loss—then what's the deal?

So you're telling me they're consciously choosing to walk away from profit just because... well, honestly, the reason doesn't even matter that much, the point is they are making a conscious choice to lose money. Whatever, everyone's entitled to their own take on things, you and me included, all five of us.

I really just want to hammer this home one more time, when we're talking about entrepreneurs, we have to make a super clear distinction between those small-time operations run by networks of cousins and buddies, and actual entrepreneurs who play by the rules of the market and the laws of the land here in the States. It's a massive point for this whole conversation.

The first group is far more prevalent, which explains why there is such widespread antipathy toward business owners.

You can throw around all the clichés and platitudes you want, but you know exactly what’s happening here. Everyone in America knows.

This nonsense about a labor shortage is frankly irritating.
How can there be a worker shortage in a country where hundreds of thousands of people leave for better opportunities every single year?
Let's call it what it is: there aren't enough workers because the pay sucks.

Matthew Young35 said:The first group is far more prevalent, which explains why there is such widespread antipathy toward business owners.

You can throw around all the clichés and platitudes you want, but you know exactly what’s happening here. Everyone in America knows.

This nonsense about a labor shortage is frankly irritating.
How can there be a worker shortage in a country where hundreds of thousands of people leave for better opportunities every single year?
Let's call it what it is: there aren't enough workers because the pay sucks.

If you ask me, these guys are actually bigger enemies than the government that even created them, at least that part is pretty obvious.
What’s with the vague talk, though? It's not like you don't understand the massive difference between crony capitalism and actual, classic Western capitalism.

As for this whole thing about the labor shortage, let's not kid ourselves—it’s only been an issue for maybe two years, it’s not some ancient problem from forever ago. And frankly, I’ve been waiting for this, just waiting for the moment when the labor market finally opens up. The whole point is to get all these markets opening up.
But look, if the government doesn't step up with real reforms, we aren't going to see high-quality jobs, we won't have solid employers, we won't have workers, and we certainly won't have tax revenue.
Even though the labor market just started opening up, you can already see things shifting. I don't even need to guess what would happen if most economic activities were fully liberalized; we can just look at the states where our people are fleeing to in droves to see the proof.

Honestly, why am I even bothering to argue about this online when I could just crack open a cold Budweiser and chill out like a king during this big game?
Karma’s a real piece of work, we all know that by now, and honestly, it feels like the universe is finally catching up with the likes of Real Madrid and Pep Guardiola with a decades-long streak of bad luck in the Champions League.
Life is actually pretty great when you realize how much joy these tiny, seemingly insignificant things can bring you, and while they don't really change my actual life circumstances, they definitely give my serotonin levels a massive boost. 🙂

restlesssurfer97 said:If you ask me, these guys are actually bigger enemies than the government that even created them, at least that part is pretty obvious.
What’s with the vague talk, though? It's not like you don't understand the massive difference between crony capitalism and actual, classic Western capitalism.

As for this whole thing about the labor shortage, let's not kid ourselves—it’s only been an issue for maybe two years, it’s not some ancient problem from forever ago. And frankly, I’ve been waiting for this, just waiting for the moment when the labor market finally opens up. The whole point is to get all these markets opening up.
But look, if the government doesn't step up with real reforms, we aren't going to see high-quality jobs, we won't have solid employers, we won't have workers, and we certainly won't have tax revenue.
Even though the labor market just started opening up, you can already see things shifting. I don't even need to guess what would happen if most economic activities were fully liberalized; we can just look at the states where our people are fleeing to in droves to see the proof.

So, it turns out we actually agree on this.
Long live the free market. Long live the labor market. If an employer can't offer a decent wage, they won't find staff, and they should just close their doors.
Fair enough.
The labor market is a two-way street, and it seems some employers are only just now learning that lesson the hard way.

So there you have it. 🙂

ps. this whole thing about opening up the job market to American workers within the EU is really just labor market liberalization seen through the eyes of an American worker. Liberalization.

I realize Barca and Pep are out, but is nobody else on this thread going to address the absolute chaos escalating globally right now?🕺