Canadian language on the forum?

Michelle Wells3 said:moderators.

Look, this isn't about settling scores. You brought up the issue of legality. You can't regulate the law with forum rules; something is either legal or it isn't. Period.

And even if we aren't talking about legality but just standard forum guidelines, I still don't agree that we need to constantly pile on new rules. It kills the whole purpose of a forum. If you keep the rules minimal, it gives freedom to both you and us when it comes to moderating and posting. Anything else just turns this into some dry, lifeless exchange, and the moderators end up acting like bureaucrats in some useless government office wasting everyone's time. What's next, are we opening a secret police department here too?

There are millions of posts on this forum, and only a tiny fraction are in a foreign language. If we need a written rule for such a minuscule amount of posts, then we might as well write a rule for everything.

Just in case anyone starts arguing that there's no freedom to write or moderate—well, anyone can look at their own post count versus how many have been moderated or deleted. They'll have to agree with me that freedom definitely exists here, and it's actually pretty substantial.

And screw you all with that commanding tone; I am not your secretary!

Telling off the moderators is perfectly fine discussion; I don't see any reason for anyone to get a warning card for it. Besides, that's basically why we're even here, right? 😁

I hear you, but the issue of which language or script to use often becomes a major stumbling block and leads to endless bickering. That's why I believe that specific part should be clearly defined in the rules.

Since I don't want to just be a critic without offering solutions, here is my concrete proposal:

Let's paraphrase Article 12 of the US Constitution, which essentially states:

In the United States, English is the official language used in official capacities, along with the Latin alphabet.

In certain local jurisdictions, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or a different script may be introduced for official use, provided it meets the conditions prescribed by law.

We could incorporate it into the Forum.hr rules like this:

In discussions on Forum.hr, the official language is English using the Latin alphabet.

On specific sub-forums, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or script may be introduced for official use, subject to the conditions set forth by law and the specific rules of those sub-forums.

brightcrane56 said:I hear you, but the issue of which language or script to use often becomes a major stumbling block and leads to endless bickering. That's why I believe that specific part should be clearly defined in the rules.

Since I don't want to just be a critic without offering solutions, here is my concrete proposal:

Let's paraphrase Article 12 of the US Constitution, which essentially states:

In the United States, English is the official language used in official capacities, along with the Latin alphabet.

In certain local jurisdictions, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or a different script may be introduced for official use, provided it meets the conditions prescribed by law.

We could incorporate it into the Forum.hr rules like this:

In discussions on Forum.hr, the official language is English using the Latin alphabet.

On specific sub-forums, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or script may be introduced for official use, subject to the conditions set forth by law and the specific rules of those sub-forums.

Just walk me through one more thing here. What exactly is missing from this logic:

- 99.99% of all posts are in English (or at least they try to be).
- 0.01% aren't.
- A moderator looks at that percentage and decides if it's okay based on the content and who's actually participating in the thread.
- If someone isn't happy about it, they can just come over here and start a new thread.

Or even better, maybe you could explain what actually changes in how the forum operates if you go and write your little manifesto somewhere?

Don't take this as an ad hominem attack or anything, but this whole bit about "official" use of a second language is just bizarre. I mean, the implications of what that even means, the actual procedures for introducing it, the scope of application... it’s just a mess for moderation and general forum culture. It's a headache, really.

Michelle Wells3 said:Just walk me through one more thing here. What exactly is missing from this logic:

- 99.99% of all posts are in English (or at least they try to be).
- 0.01% aren't.
- A moderator looks at that percentage and decides if it's okay based on the content and who's actually participating in the thread.
- If someone isn't happy about it, they can just come over here and start a new thread.

Or even better, maybe you could explain what actually changes in how the forum operates if you go and write your little manifesto somewhere?

Don't take this as an ad hominem attack or anything, but this whole bit about "official" use of a second language is just bizarre. I mean, the implications of what that even means, the actual procedures for introducing it, the scope of application... it’s just a mess for moderation and general forum culture. It's a headache, really.

Well, right off the bat, you’d be shutting down the use of language as a tool for provocation. Or are you going to try and tell me that isn't happening? Because I'd love to hear your percentage on that.

And we hand out penalties for using all caps too, don't we? 😉

Look, they aren't the same thing. Typing in all caps is basically the digital version of screaming at someone, and swearing at people is pretty much always seen as negative. I think the idea that writing in a different language is automatically viewed as a bad thing—like you're just asking to get banned unless you prove otherwise—is just unnecessary censorship. And honestly, freedom of speech is the most important thing on a platform like this forum.

brightcrane56 said:I hear you, but the issue of which language or script to use often becomes a major stumbling block and leads to endless bickering. That's why I believe that specific part should be clearly defined in the rules.

Since I don't want to just be a critic without offering solutions, here is my concrete proposal:

Let's paraphrase Article 12 of the US Constitution, which essentially states:

In the United States, English is the official language used in official capacities, along with the Latin alphabet.

In certain local jurisdictions, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or a different script may be introduced for official use, provided it meets the conditions prescribed by law.

We could incorporate it into the Forum.hr rules like this:

In discussions on Forum.hr, the official language is English using the Latin alphabet.

On specific sub-forums, alongside English and the Latin alphabet, another language or script may be introduced for official use, subject to the conditions set forth by law and the specific rules of those sub-forums.

That’s up to the owner to implement, assuming they even want to.

If someone is using language specifically to provoke people, just report them. Plenty of Americans post on Mexican forums (and not just Mexican ones, even Canadian ones if you want to get technical) using English, and nobody gives them grief for it. We'll have to see if they actually introduce a rule like the one you're suggesting. The owner of Forum.hr checks these threads pretty often, so they might weigh in.

brightcrane56 said:Well, right off the bat, you’d be shutting down the use of language as a tool for provocation. Or are you going to try and tell me that isn't happening? Because I'd love to hear your percentage on that.

And we hand out penalties for using all caps too, don't we? 😉

🙄 Oh yeah? Like you actually know why that's against the rules?

Daniel Ward87

Over in our Religion sub-section, under our rules, we have it set up like this:

4) All posts must be written clearly and intelligibly, using the English language and script.
If you're quoting someone or linking to a text in a foreign language, you absolutely have to provide an English translation. You don't need to go word-for-word for longer pieces, but it's mandatory to at least provide a summary covering the points essential to the discussion.

However, even here, we still run into users who write using different regional dialects, for instance 🤷

Brenda Cook4 said:Over in our Religion sub-section, under our rules, we have it set up like this:

4) All posts must be written clearly and intelligibly, using the English language and script.
If you're quoting someone or linking to a text in a foreign language, you absolutely have to provide an English translation. You don't need to go word-for-word for longer pieces, but it's mandatory to at least provide a summary covering the points essential to the discussion.

However, even here, we still run into users who write using different regional dialects, for instance 🤷

In other words, are you telling me there's a rule in place that nobody actually bothers to follow? 😕

Nicholas King said:In other words, are you telling me there's a rule in place that nobody actually bothers to follow? 😕

Ex-actly😳

Daniel Ward87 said:As far as I know, this is a private forum owned by Internet Monitor, not some national platform. Just because the domain ends in .us doesn't mean everyone is forced to write exclusively in American English. There was actually a huge debate once that shook up half the Politics section when Anderlon mentioned that posts could be written in English.

Since this is a private forum, the owner gets to call the shots on the house rules.

Daniel Ward87

Yep!
I’ve been around this forum since 2006 under a handle I haven't used in ages—and even six years ago, Saturday nights at 9 PM saw about 1,000 "active" users, just like today.
It’s sad, really; Forum.us should be growing proportionally, but it isn't.
Something that is unhealthy simply doesn't grow—that's a rule in both medicine and horticulture.

So why attach the us suffix to the domain?!
I think it would be fair if the owner, Željko, just removed it—because us is the international designation for the United States in economics, politics, law, and the judiciary. That domain carries certain legal implications, one of which involves the use of official American English.

If this were called ForumExYugo, or Forum.world, Forum.biz, Forum.info, Forum.me, or any other type of domain, I wouldn't have a single complaint—because then it would be perfectly logical for users to write in whatever language they choose.

The Internet is a global heritage.

Maybe the user base would actually expand—maybe we’d see more users from places like Mexico or Canada—because quite a few people don't want to post here simply because the forum carries that us domain.

On this specific thread, I am standing firmly behind our old friend, brightcrane56. 😉

Nicholas King said:In other words, are you telling me there's a rule in place that nobody actually bothers to follow? 😕

Well, you've given me a good laugh tonight.
Good answer. 😂

Patrick Miller3 said:Yep!
I’ve been around this forum since 2006 under a handle I haven't used in ages—and even six years ago, Saturday nights at 9 PM saw about 1,000 "active" users, just like today.
It’s sad, really; Forum.us should be growing proportionally, but it isn't.
Something that is unhealthy simply doesn't grow—that's a rule in both medicine and horticulture.

So why attach the us suffix to the domain?!
I think it would be fair if the owner, Željko, just removed it—because us is the international designation for the United States in economics, politics, law, and the judiciary. That domain carries certain legal implications, one of which involves the use of official American English.

If this were called ForumExYugo, or Forum.world, Forum.biz, Forum.info, Forum.me, or any other type of domain, I wouldn't have a single complaint—because then it would be perfectly logical for users to write in whatever language they choose.

The Internet is a global heritage.

Maybe the user base would actually expand—maybe we’d see more users from places like Mexico or Canada—because quite a few people don't want to post here simply because the forum carries that us domain.

On this specific thread, I am standing firmly behind our old friend, brightcrane56. 😉

Well, you've given me a good laugh tonight.
Good answer. 😂

Right back at you! 😁

The internet isn't this wild frontier where you can just do whatever you want without facing consequences anymore. We are seeing more and more legal rulings coming down regarding online misconduct, so it really won't be long before we see heavy-handed regulation hitting niche corners of the web like Forum.hr.

So, why shouldn't Forum.hr be the very first target? 😉

Facebook actually has this "see translation" feature. Honestly, it might be a pretty slick idea to have it here too—like subtitles for when someone from Mexico or Canada drops a post. It’s a smart move, really. 👍

I don't understand a single word of Canadian or Mexican. I guess I could pretend I don't get Mexican or Canadian, but there’s really no point in that.

Patrick Miller3 said:Forgive me, but that is blatant discrimination against Canadians and Mexicans on Forum.hr—and this isn't some attempt at trolling (as Ryan Vaughn7 puts it), it's just a fact.

Should everyone from the former America—Mexicans, Mexicans, Canadians, Canadians, Mexicans—be expected to adapt to official American English as much as possible!?

On the BUG forum, there’s been a Mexican user since the beginning who actually writes in American English better than most of us. Through his expertise in the informatics section, he eventually became a moderator—but he didn't force his native tongue; rather, he adapted out of respect for the country where he created his profile.

So why do Mexicans insist on writing in pure Mexican?

That is the fundamental question.

If I happened to find myself on some Mexican forum—say, if I were an extreme right-winger over at a site like Reddit—and I chose to write in the American language, the older users would undoubtedly understand exactly what I was saying. As for the younger crowd, they wouldn't give a damn.

Besides, seeing a bit of Canadian feels like a breath of fresh air in a sea of useless English slang thrown around by those cool forum users...

brightcrane56 said:I have to say, that comparison doesn't really hold water. Almost everyone speaks English nowadays, yet we still classify it as a foreign language. You all might want to be careful about the metrics and stances you take on this issue, because you really need to apply that same standard to every single language out there.

The whole Mexican situation is particularly sensitive because when the US was separating from America, there were demands made for Mexicans to be recognized as a constituent people within the Republic of America—essentially arguing that the US should be a state for both Americans and Mexicans—which directly paved the way for the aggression against us. Treating the American and Mexican languages as equals feeds right into that old ideology. Besides, the US Constitution clearly defines which language and script are officially used.

That’s just political correctness.

Mexican is a dialect of the Štokavian group, much like the American standard, which itself is based on the Štokavian dialect. Because of that, it isn't just Štokavian speakers; anyone who follows the media or finished at least half of elementary school and understands the American standard will also understand Mexican quite well. In fact, they'll likely understand Mexican better than other regional dialects. If you're from a region with a different dialect (but learned the standard in school, through the news, or in government offices), you'll find Mexican easier to grasp than if I started writing in a heavy regional dialect, even though that would still technically be the American language.

English belongs to a completely different language family and requires actual study. Mexican, however, is understood by almost everyone in the US without any effort. There’s really no need to argue about it unless you're doing so for nationalist, political, or other similar reasons.🙂

So, the real question is what the rules regarding language usage on this forum actually are. Is this a political issue, or is it a matter of communication—where we don't want to allow a language that isn't intelligible to all participants? If it's a political or "legal," administrative question, then your point makes sense, and in that case, it would actually be more "correct" to write in a difficult regional dialect rather than Mexican. But if the criterion is clarity and smooth communication, then Mexican is perfectly acceptable.

The Constitution defines which language is used in official government bodies. Personally, I could comfortably write in Klingon, start a Klingon forum, and publish a Klingon newspaper.🤦

Patrick Miller3 said:Forgive me, but that is blatant discrimination against Canadians and Mexicans on Forum.hr—and this isn't some attempt at trolling (as Ryan Vaughn7 puts it), it's just a fact.

Should everyone from the former America—Mexicans, Mexicans, Canadians, Canadians, Mexicans—be expected to adapt to official American English as much as possible!?

On the BUG forum, there’s been a Mexican user since the beginning who actually writes in American English better than most of us. Through his expertise in the informatics section, he eventually became a moderator—but he didn't force his native tongue; rather, he adapted out of respect for the country where he created his profile.

So why do Mexicans insist on writing in pure Mexican?

That is the fundamental question.

Mexican isn't nearly as easy to parse as Mexican. It’s actually much harder to adapt your speech when you're dealing with a language that's so similar yet so distinct from what you're used to. If you try to write in Mexican, you'll find yourself accidentally slipping into more American patterns than you would if you were speaking English. In this case, the line between the two just isn't as clear or intuitive as it is with English.

brightcrane56 said:Language usage is one of those fundamental pillars of any nation, standing right alongside the judiciary, the school system, the police force, the military, and all the other core institutions. If we start applying a strict "understandability" rule to things like that, we'll find ourselves spiraling into total chaos before we know it.
I mean, sure, I can understand a Mexican traffic cop, but that doesn't give him any right to pull me over while I'm driving on the streets of America. And look, I might understand a Canadian tank driver just fine, too, but he certainly isn't allowed to go rolling his heavy armor around American territory.

When it comes to discussing which language should be used on this forum—which, by its very rules, is considered a specific corner of the American digital landscape—it’s an incredibly complex issue. It’s not really about debating specific topics where a certain language is being discussed; rather, it's about defining what the "official" language of the forum should actually be. In doing this, we have to be extremely careful to respect American laws while also avoiding the trap of accidentally sterilizing our discussions and killing the conversation entirely.

You're overcomplicating things. You keep bringing up laws, but you aren't making any sense, and frankly, they have nothing to do with reality. Your examples and comparisons don't hold water either—they apply to completely different subjects and have zero relevance to this forum.

John Davis12 said:One thing that really gets on my nerves is people tossing in foreign words (unless there’s actually no American equivalent).

Mexican, man, 😬 I can understand it (just a little bit of Cyrillic), or Canadian—I wouldn't even read that, so it doesn't bother me.
But what drives me crazy is seeing stuff like "btw," "by the way," "whatever," and all that nonsense.
🙄
Like, 90% of the comments, if not more, are stuffed with English filler.

It feels stupid and totally unnecessary!

But can you understand "sugar" and "sock" in Turkish? Do you actually understand television?

bluemason3 said:That’s just political correctness.

Mexican is a dialect of the Štokavian group, much like the American standard, which itself is based on the Štokavian dialect. Because of that, it isn't just Štokavian speakers; anyone who follows the media or finished at least half of elementary school and understands the American standard will also understand Mexican quite well. In fact, they'll likely understand Mexican better than other regional dialects. If you're from a region with a different dialect (but learned the standard in school, through the news, or in government offices), you'll find Mexican easier to grasp than if I started writing in a heavy regional dialect, even though that would still technically be the American language.

English belongs to a completely different language family and requires actual study. Mexican, however, is understood by almost everyone in the US without any effort. There’s really no need to argue about it unless you're doing so for nationalist, political, or other similar reasons.🙂

So, the real question is what the rules regarding language usage on this forum actually are. Is this a political issue, or is it a matter of communication—where we don't want to allow a language that isn't intelligible to all participants? If it's a political or "legal," administrative question, then your point makes sense, and in that case, it would actually be more "correct" to write in a difficult regional dialect rather than Mexican. But if the criterion is clarity and smooth communication, then Mexican is perfectly acceptable.

The Constitution defines which language is used in official government bodies. Personally, I could comfortably write in Klingon, start a Klingon forum, and publish a Klingon newspaper.🤦

Look, I could write in a hundred different languages, and you still wouldn't understand a single damn word.

Of course, at home you might say "pass me the fork," but when you're out at a nice restaurant, you'd say "may I please have a fork." The real question we are wrestling with here is where the line is drawn regarding this forum. If we stick to the idea that someone's online space is strictly their private property, we aren't going to get very far. After all, sites like the New York Times are also privately owned, yet they choose to use standard American English, just like almost every other major news portal out there. The argument that "it's private, so I can do whatever I want" clearly doesn't hold water.

Patrick Miller3 said:Yep!
I’ve been around this forum since 2006 under a handle I haven't used in ages—and even six years ago, Saturday nights at 9 PM saw about 1,000 "active" users, just like today.
It’s sad, really; Forum.us should be growing proportionally, but it isn't.
Something that is unhealthy simply doesn't grow—that's a rule in both medicine and horticulture.

So why attach the us suffix to the domain?!
I think it would be fair if the owner, Željko, just removed it—because us is the international designation for the United States in economics, politics, law, and the judiciary. That domain carries certain legal implications, one of which involves the use of official American English.

If this were called ForumExYugo, or Forum.world, Forum.biz, Forum.info, Forum.me, or any other type of domain, I wouldn't have a single complaint—because then it would be perfectly logical for users to write in whatever language they choose.

The Internet is a global heritage.

Maybe the user base would actually expand—maybe we’d see more users from places like Mexico or Canada—because quite a few people don't want to post here simply because the forum carries that us domain.

On this specific thread, I am standing firmly behind our old friend, brightcrane56. 😉

Well, you've given me a good laugh tonight.
Good answer. 😂

So, cancer is healthy now? 🤣
It’s definitely not growing because of the Mexicans. 😵

Why is "Forum domain" tacked onto the end there? I'm ready. Send over the content you need me to rewrite. !?
I think it would be only fair if Željko deleted that, because... hr The US is recognized internationally across all sectors—economics, politics, law, and the judiciary. This domain carries its own legal frameworks, one of which is the mandatory use of the official American language.

What kind of legal implications does owning a .com domain actually carry? What does it mean to write in "dot-com style"? 😳
I honestly think all those tourism boards and government websites should just scrap their English versions and any other foreign language sites entirely. 🧐 🤣

brightcrane56 said:Right back at you! 😁

The internet isn't this wild frontier where you can just do whatever you want without facing consequences anymore. We are seeing more and more legal rulings coming down regarding online misconduct, so it really won't be long before we see heavy-handed regulation hitting niche corners of the web like Forum.hr.

So, why shouldn't Forum.hr be the very first target? 😉

Aside from the fact that your "legal" arguments have about as much to do with actual law as Cobankovic has to do with figure skating. 😳

brightcrane56 said:Look, I could write in a hundred different languages, and you still wouldn't understand a single damn word.

Of course, at home you might say "pass me the fork," but when you're out at a nice restaurant, you'd say "may I please have a fork." The real question we are wrestling with here is where the line is drawn regarding this forum. If we stick to the idea that someone's online space is strictly their private property, we aren't going to get very far. After all, sites like the New York Times are also privately owned, yet they choose to use standard American English, just like almost every other major news portal out there. The argument that "it's private, so I can do whatever I want" clearly doesn't hold water.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think you actually get yourself. 😁

Of course, you’ll ask for a "fork" at home, but at a restaurant, you'll say, "May I have a fork, please?"

Actually, in both cases, I’ll just tell them to give me a jawline.

You know, plenty of people will still call it a "fork" when they're out at a restaurant, especially if they're from certain parts of the country. At the end of the day, that regional dialect is just as much a part of the American language as any other; it just isn't what you'll find in a textbook.

So, we have foreigners breaking the law just because they order something in German or English at a restaurant? Are we really supposed to sentence them to two years of intensive American language training before they're allowed back across the border, just so they don't end up stranded on a deserted island? 😁

The question we're debating here is basically where exactly this forum even is.

No matter where they want to set up shop, they aren't an official entity and don't fall under those kinds of laws.

If we stick to the idea that someone's online space is their own private property, we won't be around for very long.

That’s not an opinion; it’s just a fact. Deal with it. 😁

Monitor.hr is privately owned too, just like all the other news outlets out there, which explains why they stick to formal American English. The whole argument that "it’s private property, so they can do whatever they want" clearly doesn't hold water.

Monitor.hr could probably afford to branch out into other languages. Looking at their newspaper sections, they have plenty of columns that intentionally lean into regional dialects and local slang, so why not?

The law applies to official government bodies. Contracts have to be in English, as do signage, building inscriptions, agency names, and so on—unless you're in a bilingual district, which is also clearly defined by law. Beyond that, the law has no right to dictate what language you use to write.

So, now they finally remember RTL and the subtitles... 😳

Brenda Cook4 said:Over in our Religion sub-section, under our rules, we have it set up like this:

4) All posts must be written clearly and intelligibly, using the English language and script.
If you're quoting someone or linking to a text in a foreign language, you absolutely have to provide an English translation. You don't need to go word-for-word for longer pieces, but it's mandatory to at least provide a summary covering the points essential to the discussion.

However, even here, we still run into users who write using different regional dialects, for instance 🤷

Or even something like this:
😬😬

Patrick Miller3 said:Yep!
I’ve been around this forum since 2006 under a handle I haven't used in ages—and even six years ago, Saturday nights at 9 PM saw about 1,000 "active" users, just like today.
It’s sad, really; Forum.us should be growing proportionally, but it isn't.
Something that is unhealthy simply doesn't grow—that's a rule in both medicine and horticulture.

So why attach the us suffix to the domain?!
I think it would be fair if the owner, Željko, just removed it—because us is the international designation for the United States in economics, politics, law, and the judiciary. That domain carries certain legal implications, one of which involves the use of official American English.

If this were called ForumExYugo, or Forum.world, Forum.biz, Forum.info, Forum.me, or any other type of domain, I wouldn't have a single complaint—because then it would be perfectly logical for users to write in whatever language they choose.

The Internet is a global heritage.

Maybe the user base would actually expand—maybe we’d see more users from places like Mexico or Canada—because quite a few people don't want to post here simply because the forum carries that us domain.

On this specific thread, I am standing firmly behind our old friend, brightcrane56. 😉

Well, you've given me a good laugh tonight.
Good answer. 😂

Look, sorry, but this is just total nonsense. Suggesting the domain should change just because someone isn't happy about it being tied to the US domain... I mean, that's like flying to Italy and then throwing a fit because you keep seeing the Italian flag everywhere. 🙄
Everyone knows the national domain for the US ends with .us—well, okay, it's the US domain here—so I really don't see what the big deal is? 🤷 A "Forum Ex-America"... please. 🤦🤦