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Canadian language on the forum?

Started by Larry Walker24 · · 👁 12 views · 105 replies

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Participants Larry Walker24Sandra Gonzalez3Patrick Miller3melloworca6brightcrane56Charles Fox10Ryan Vaughn7swiftcrane96Nicholas KingDaniel Ward87John Davis12briskbear51Michelle Wells3rustydrifter10Brenda Cook4boldwalker12bluecyclist64bluemason3Jeremy TorresJack Ward82analogwalker5Grace Anderson3Ethan Hayes2lonebadger6 …
Patrick Miller3 Patrick Miller3 Member
22 messages
joined Jan 2012
#81 ·
Nicholas King said:So, what exactly are you suggesting we do in a situation like that?

Google Translate.

Here is an example using Mexican:
English:
I wish all the forum members all the very best in life—good friendships, plenty of flowers, beauty, laughter, and joy.

Google Mexican:

Желео бих свим форумским члановима све најљепше 🤣 у животу, лепо пријатељевање, пуно цвећа, лепоте, смеха и весеља.

Google English:

I wish all the best Pamphlets everything in life, good friendship, lots of flowers, beauty, laughter and joy. (understandable)

Google Chinese:

我希望所有的生命中最好的小冊子一切,良好的友誼,很多鮮花,美容,歡笑與快樂的。 🤣
Jeremy Torres Jeremy Torres Newcomer
5 messages
joined Nov 2011
#82 ·
Finally! Now I actually have a chance to brush up on my Cyrillic skills! 🎉 and honestly, I’d suggest just renaming the whole thing to "Learning Languages" 👋
analogwalker5 analogwalker5 Member
11 messages
joined Jul 2012
#83 ·
lonebadger6 said:1. Correct.
2. Incorrect, and here is why...

The points that are looking pretty shaky are:

1. The idea that if I understand Language X, it’s fine to use it (but if someone else understands Language Y, they should get the same treatment).
2. The notion that this forum is a private playground where we can do whatever we want (just because everything in the US is private doesn't mean people are exempt from following the law).

It might be about time we started drafting some actual concrete rules for the forum.

1. This just doesn't track, because we aren't debating whether Flemish is allowed while Urdu is banned. Language X—in this case, Mexican—is understood by every single person on this forum, from start to finish. If anyone claims they don't understand it, let's be blunt... they're lying. That makes it incomparable to those languages that "someone out there" happens to understand. Everyone understands "some" language. It's nonsense to compare a language that every American here fully grasps with the fact that there might be one random user who understands Mongolian.
Your argument actually carries much more weight when you're talking about English, since there are certainly plenty of users here who don't speak it fluently.

2. Forum.hr isn't breaking any laws by allowing other languages, and a few people have already tried to explain that to you. You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what "official language" actually means.
Besides, regardless of that, even in the United States, we have public media outlets that publish or broadcast in other languages—like minority newspapers or news segments in English or German—and they aren't breaking any laws either...

I think the real point is that we aren't trying to stop communication in the heart of our community, where the vast majority of users speak American English and 99.99% of posts are written in it. There should be rules requiring posts to be in American English if possible and it is recommended to translate anything that might be unintelligible to the "average American." Translating from Mexican or Canadian is completely unnecessary because anyone who knows standard American English understands those languages just fine, and it makes zero sense to insist that native Mexican or Canadian speakers write in strict American English standards—practically everything is understood, and it would be useless to write in some "quasi-English" (which would be like that "quasi-Mexican" post in this thread) instead of standard Mexican or Canadian, because it doesn't help anyone understand better; it just "mangles" the language.

We also have to keep in mind that the person posting doesn't necessarily have to be able to translate foreign text into American English if that text isn't meant for Americans, especially since the author might have very limited or zero active knowledge of the foreign language they are quoting.

If a user is intentionally writing in a foreign language that Americans normally wouldn't understand, then yeah, that counts as trolling and should definitely be sanctioned.

Anyway, if the rules or recommendations regarding language choice are broken, a moderator should only step in if it actually ruins communication. Honestly, the best move is to send a private message to the American user who broke the rule, explaining what the issue is, so they can judge that person's English skills and their actual intentions.
brightcrane56 brightcrane56 Member
44 messages
joined Sep 2007
#84 ·
lonebadger6 said:1. Correct.
2. Incorrect, and here is why...

The points that are looking pretty shaky are:

1. The idea that if I understand Language X, it’s fine to use it (but if someone else understands Language Y, they should get the same treatment).
2. The notion that this forum is a private playground where we can do whatever we want (just because everything in the US is private doesn't mean people are exempt from following the law).

It might be about time we started drafting some actual concrete rules for the forum.

1. This just doesn't track, because we aren't debating whether Flemish is allowed while Urdu is banned. Language X—in this case, Mexican—is understood by every single person on this forum, from start to finish. If anyone claims they don't understand it, let's be blunt... they're lying. That makes it incomparable to those languages that "someone out there" happens to understand. Everyone understands "some" language. It's nonsense to compare a language that every American here fully grasps with the fact that there might be one random user who understands Mongolian.
Your argument actually carries much more weight when you're talking about English, since there are certainly plenty of users here who don't speak it fluently.

2. Forum.hr isn't breaking any laws by allowing other languages, and a few people have already tried to explain that to you. You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what "official language" actually means.
Besides, regardless of that, even in the United States, we have public media outlets that publish or broadcast in other languages—like minority newspapers or news segments in English or German—and they aren't breaking any laws either...

Look, I'm sorry, but I don't understand Mexican and I have absolutely no desire to learn it. So, all your arguments pretty much go right out the window.
Let's get back to the core idea: that all languages should be treated equally.
Patrick Miller3 Patrick Miller3 Member
22 messages
joined Jan 2012
#85 ·
lonebadger6 said:1. Correct.
2. Incorrect, and here is why...

The points that are looking pretty shaky are:

1. The idea that if I understand Language X, it’s fine to use it (but if someone else understands Language Y, they should get the same treatment).
2. The notion that this forum is a private playground where we can do whatever we want (just because everything in the US is private doesn't mean people are exempt from following the law).

It might be about time we started drafting some actual concrete rules for the forum.

1. This just doesn't track, because we aren't debating whether Flemish is allowed while Urdu is banned. Language X—in this case, Mexican—is understood by every single person on this forum, from start to finish. If anyone claims they don't understand it, let's be blunt... they're lying. That makes it incomparable to those languages that "someone out there" happens to understand. Everyone understands "some" language. It's nonsense to compare a language that every American here fully grasps with the fact that there might be one random user who understands Mongolian.
Your argument actually carries much more weight when you're talking about English, since there are certainly plenty of users here who don't speak it fluently.

2. Forum.hr isn't breaking any laws by allowing other languages, and a few people have already tried to explain that to you. You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what "official language" actually means.
Besides, regardless of that, even in the United States, we have public media outlets that publish or broadcast in other languages—like minority newspapers or news segments in English or German—and they aren't breaking any laws either...

You completely miss the point of this discussion.

I don't want my kids reading either Mexican dialects or Mongolian on an American forum—not because I'm being difficult, but because they'll pick up linguistic structures like this example:
"I would like to go into the world and engage in the construction of airplanes at an angle of 60 degrees."

In plain English:

"I would like to travel the world and build airplanes at a sixty-degree angle."

Children absorb incorrect grammar and spelling incredibly fast—something that is becoming painfully obvious on this forum.

lonebadger6 said:Furthermore, regardless of all that, there are public media outlets in the United States that publish or broadcast in other languages (minority newspapers, news on the radio in English or German, etc.), and they aren't breaking any laws.

That is exactly what we have been discussing this whole time.
We should simply open specific sub-forums for minority groups—it doesn't really matter which of those languages is better or worse.
brightcrane56 brightcrane56 Member
44 messages
joined Sep 2007
#86 ·
If Mexican is supposedly understood by everyone, then why on earth do we have 117 certified court interpreters for the Mexican language?
CLICK
Brian Edwards6 Brian Edwards6 Active Member
112 messages
joined Nov 2015
#87 ·
Because of official (formal) reasons.👍
analogwalker5 analogwalker5 Member
11 messages
joined Jul 2012
#88 ·
Brian Edwards6 said:Because of official (formal) reasons.👍

Yeah, honestly, it’s all just being done in the name of so-called "legal certainty," which is total nonsense because it has absolutely nothing to do with actually being practical in the real world.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#89 ·
brightcrane56 said:Look, I'm sorry, but I don't understand Mexican and I have absolutely no desire to learn it. So, all your arguments pretty much go right out the window.
Let's get back to the core idea: that all languages should be treated equally.

You're lying. 🙂

Patrick Miller3 said:You completely miss the point of this discussion.

I don't want my kids reading either Mexican dialects or Mongolian on an American forum—not because I'm being difficult, but because they'll pick up linguistic structures like this example:
"I would like to go into the world and engage in the construction of airplanes at an angle of 60 degrees."

In plain English:

"I would like to travel the world and build airplanes at a sixty-degree angle."

Children absorb incorrect grammar and spelling incredibly fast—something that is becoming painfully obvious on this forum.

That is exactly what we have been discussing this whole time.
We should simply open specific sub-forums for minority groups—it doesn't really matter which of those languages is better or worse.

And there's plenty of other things I don't want, but nobody ever asks.🤣

I suggest you just start an American grammar forum with two or three former Oak Tree regulars. They'll probably get bored of it after a week once they realize there's nobody left to annoy with their pointless drama.😳
analogwalker5 analogwalker5 Member
11 messages
joined Jul 2012
#90 ·
bluemason3 said:You're lying. 🙂

And there's plenty of other things I don't want, but nobody ever asks.🤣

I suggest you just start an American grammar forum with two or three former Oak Tree regulars. They'll probably get bored of it after a week once they realize there's nobody left to annoy with their pointless drama.😳

Look, this is a public forum open to absolutely everyone, so anyone can sign up and see whatever they want. It’s one thing to have access, but it’s a whole different story when you consider how much it actually helps—or doesn't—when people are posting stuff that isn't strictly following American standards.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#91 ·
If we’re being strictly technical, there’s hardly anything wrong here; we just aren't particularly well-educated. Most people on this forum don't see an issue. The admins don't see an issue. The owner doesn't see an issue. It's not a legal matter, either. It seems like a handful of users are just taking it out on themselves, or maybe they're just bored.
lonebadger6 lonebadger6 Active Member
165 messages
joined Oct 2018
#92 ·
brightcrane56 said:Look, I'm sorry, but I don't understand Mexican and I have absolutely no desire to learn it. So, all your arguments pretty much go right out the window.
Let's get back to the core idea: that all languages should be treated equally.

The second half of what you said is just your own opinion, but the first part is a flat-out lie...🙂

But bluemason3 is ultimately right about this. The owner isn't bothered, the admins and mods aren't bothered, and the vast majority of people on this forum aren't bothered—just you few. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you should be sober enough to accept the fact that forums (especially ones this size) can't function by catering to every single individual whim...

Users from Mexico use the Latin alphabet, so they write comments that everyone here can understand perfectly well...
John Davis12 John Davis12 Member
14 messages
joined May 2012
#93 ·
I don't want my kids reading anything on an American forum that isn't pure English—not some dialect, not some foreign nonsense, nothing.

Look, even in standard English, you've got at least 50 words that are originally Turkish and just part of the language now. Whether people like it or not, those words aren't going anywhere (and our kids will be learning them, just like we did).
Patrick Miller3 Patrick Miller3 Member
22 messages
joined Jan 2012
#94 ·
lonebadger6 said:The second half of what you said is just your own opinion, but the first part is a flat-out lie...🙂

But bluemason3 is ultimately right about this. The owner isn't bothered, the admins and mods aren't bothered, and the vast majority of people on this forum aren't bothered—just you few. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you should be sober enough to accept the fact that forums (especially ones this size) can't function by catering to every single individual whim...

Users from Mexico use the Latin alphabet, so they write comments that everyone here can understand perfectly well...

I actually corrected those awkward word constructions imported from the East right there in your quote.
That's why I don't want my kids on this forum—so they don't pick up those Serbianisms that frankly make my blood boil. 🙂
lonebadger6 lonebadger6 Active Member
165 messages
joined Oct 2018
#95 ·
Patrick Miller3 said:I actually corrected those awkward word constructions imported from the East right there in your quote.
That's why I don't want my kids on this forum—so they don't pick up those Serbianisms that frankly make my blood boil. 🙂

Problem solved, then your kids won't be on the forum, at least not while you're watching... 🙂
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#96 ·
If we were to go ahead and block access to every single sentence written in Mexican tonight, this forum would remain just as disastrously illiterate as it is now.

We’re talking everything from Facebook slang to various other niche dialects, all the way down to the widespread illiteracy found even in what people claim is standard American English—though, if I recall correctly, you might even stumble upon a few misplaced vowels in your own writing there too. 🙂
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#97 ·
Patrick Miller3 said:I actually corrected those awkward word constructions imported from the East right there in your quote.
That's why I don't want my kids on this forum—so they don't pick up those Serbianisms that frankly make my blood boil. 🙂

No worries, just drop their usernames and we'll ban them right away.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#98 ·
brightcrane56 said:Look, I'm sorry, but I don't understand Mexican and I have absolutely no desire to learn it. So, all your arguments pretty much go right out the window.
Let's get back to the core idea: that all languages should be treated equally.

That is a fascinating claim regarding your inability to grasp Mexican. In reality, if you had written your post in Mexican, it would look virtually identical—except you’d likely use 'razumeti' instead of your version of 'razumijeti,' which, by the way, was misspelled.
brightcrane56 brightcrane56 Member
44 messages
joined Sep 2007
#99 ·
Nicholas King said:That is a fascinating claim regarding your inability to grasp Mexican. In reality, if you had written your post in Mexican, it would look virtually identical—except you’d likely use 'razumeti' instead of your version of 'razumijeti,' which, by the way, was misspelled.

$50 + I find the added tax on translating that sentence just as entertaining.

And don't forget the whole argument that all foreign languages are on equal footing—none are more equal than others.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#100 ·
I honestly think it would be beneficial if you actually picked a specific 'debate strategy' regarding this whole situation.

Are we talking about the claim that permitting any language other than English constitutes a violation of the law, or is this more of a case of "I just don't want to understand Mexican"?

If it's the former, then go ahead and file a lawsuit—but if it's the latter, just put everyone you can't understand on ignore and call it a day. That's really all there is to it.

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