Started by Megan White4 · · 👁 110 views · 3.5K replies
Jerry Thompson said:There’s really only one major difference here: you pick up BJJ fast, and you see actual results pretty quickly—maybe within two or three years. With Aikido, you won't see any real progress until you've put in eight to ten years. But you can't exactly compare the two disciplines like that. That's all there is to it. 😁
Jonathan Johnson67 said:I'm totally with you there. It just sounded a bit weird when you said BJJ would "build strength" because of the nature of the sport.
Daniel Garcia - exactly. Most of the leverage comes down to speed and technical precision rather than raw power. Though, I do get the feeling that being stronger makes you faster... and makes executing those submissions feel a lot smoother. (Assuming you aren't just bodybuilding, but actually focusing on functional strength and mobility).
jademarlin26 said:Forget the prices. It’s just bait for Westerners who still brag about practicing a martial art without breaking a sweat. In my dojo, we certainly incorporate strength training and conditioning drills. It's obvious why many Aikidoka skip it—they've convinced themselves that building muscle will somehow ruin their technique. Give me a break. 😵These are just pathological fixations by certain individuals.
IMNSHO, training any martial art without possessing enough strength to even handle your own body is absurd.
Jerry Thompson said:briskjackal5, I thought you'd pick it up faster compared to Aikido.
rustyangler02, I have no idea when the grading is scheduled... this way is better.😉 I can't avoid it.😢
I still need to check. And about this Saturday... don't count on it. Better to try during the week if you can make it work.
Daniel Garcia said:The thing is, certain techniques in some styles are impossible to pull off right if you rely solely on raw power—because muscle tension ends up blocking the full-body movement needed for the move. That's probably what they meant. Sure, you need strength and stamina, but the ratio of technique to brute force really depends on the specific style...
goldenhound9 said:I’d say that applies to pretty much every move in every discipline.
If your own muscle tension is choking out the motion of the technique, then it's not
actually being done right. I mean, sure, the move might still work, but
you're definitely not hitting your true potential. If you keep repeating
sloppy movements, you're basically hardwiring bad habits into your muscle memory. And the more you do it wrong,
the harder it’s going to be to fix later. So, in my opinion, the priority should always be getting the form down perfectly first. Once you've actually mastered the mechanics, then maybe you start adding strength—as long as you don't ruin the technique in the process.
goldenhound9 said:I’d say that applies to pretty much every move in every discipline.
If your own muscle tension is choking out the motion of the technique, then it's not
actually being done right. I mean, sure, the move might still work, but
you're definitely not hitting your true potential. If you keep repeating
sloppy movements, you're basically hardwiring bad habits into your muscle memory. And the more you do it wrong,
the harder it’s going to be to fix later. So, in my opinion, the priority should always be getting the form down perfectly first. Once you've actually mastered the mechanics, then maybe you start adding strength—as long as you don't ruin the technique in the process.
Karen Sullivan78 said:Exactly.
One more thing: any basic technique in martial arts needs to work IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, that’s relative to how fast you move and your experience level. If it doesn't click right away, it won't click five years from now either. If a move feels "off," then yeah, it’s worth putting in the hours to fix it. You need years of practice to stitch those raw techniques together into actual skill and build that muscle memory. Also, if an instructor can't explain a move in one or two sessions so that the student actually gets it—and more importantly, can spot their own mistakes—then something definitely smells fishy, especially if the whole class is struggling to follow along.
Sayings like "just keep at it, it'll come to you eventually" or "you'll see how it works once you learn to move fast" are just classic examples of mystification.
Michelle Edwards5 said:But as a student, how am I supposed to know if it's legitimate? I join a club specifically registered for a certain style expecting to actually learn something now, not ten years down the road.
Michelle Edwards5 said:But as a student, how am I supposed to know if it's legitimate? I join a club specifically registered for a certain style expecting to actually learn something now, not ten years down the road.
granitefalcon24 said:What follows is not an advertisement:
Come down to Phoenix and see for yourself.🧐
Karen Sullivan78 said:That’s not a promotion; it’s just aggressive marketing. 😲
Karen Sullivan78 said:Exactly.
One more thing: any basic technique in martial arts needs to work IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, that’s relative to how fast you move and your experience level. If it doesn't click right away, it won't click five years from now either. If a move feels "off," then yeah, it’s worth putting in the hours to fix it. You need years of practice to stitch those raw techniques together into actual skill and build that muscle memory. Also, if an instructor can't explain a move in one or two sessions so that the student actually gets it—and more importantly, can spot their own mistakes—then something definitely smells fishy, especially if the whole class is struggling to follow along.
Sayings like "just keep at it, it'll come to you eventually" or "you'll see how it works once you learn to move fast" are just classic examples of mystification.
briskjackal5 said:I mean, I basically agree with you, though I guess the way you put it—saying it "has to work immediately"—might not be the best way to frame it.
But, like, what does "work" even mean?
And what does "immediately" mean? Like, right after the very first training session where you tried it?
And against whom? An inexperienced guy, some average dude, just anyone?😁
We’re pretty much on the same page here, really. I just think the most important part is breaking techniques down piece by piece.
For example, I could show you three different setups for a triangle choke and talk through how to finish it... but honestly, if you try to do it all at once, it just isn't going to work right (and I've seen plenty of guys try that and totally fail miserably).
Instead, you really need to get those hip and leg movements down first. You should probably drill that for a few sessions before you even attempt triangles, and honestly, everyone should be drilling that. At the same time, you have to actually understand the point of the move. I guess it's better to drill the movement that needs to become automatic first, and then maybe a session or two later, move on to the next step—otherwise, people tend to focus too much on the actual choking mechanics rather than drilling the essential movement that makes the whole thing happen (which, you know, includes a good chunk of the mechanics anyway).
Then, you have to learn the specific timing of when you can actually go for the triangle, and *then* you learn the setup and the full technique. Only then will a basic triangle (without getting bogged down in counters and counter-counters) actually work for you.
Of course, that’s all assuming you want a triangle so solid that even a pro wrestler couldn't escape the choke.
If you don't care about that, hey, just squeeze and tighten up.😁
But I don't think that's even what you meant with your paragraph, so I guess we're basically agreeing. And all that talk about things not working for ten years and then suddenly—abracadabra!—well, to be honest, that sounds a little hard to believe to me.
- briskjackal5 -
We’re basically on the same page; the only thing that matters is breaking these techniques down and tackling them one step at a time.
Look, I could walk you through three different ways to set up a triangle and tell you exactly how to wrap it up... but you probably won't do it right. I’ve seen plenty of guys try that approach and absolutely butcher it.
Look, you gotta nail those hip and leg movements first. You should be drilling that for a few sessions before you even touch triangles—and honestly, everyone does that. At the same time, you need to actually grasp the point of the technique. It’s better to hammer the movement until it's muscle memory before moving on a session or two later; otherwise, people just end up obsessing over the choke mechanics instead of drilling the actual movement they need to master.
First, you gotta figure out which weight class actually lets you pull off a triangle. Once that's set, you grind the setup and the full technique. Only then does a basic triangle—without all the extra nonsense about counters and counter-counters—actually work.
Sure, but only if you want a triangle setup where even a pro wrestler can't escape the choke.
If you don't care, just tighten it up and get on with it. 😁
I don't think that’s even what you meant by that paragraph, but basically, we're on the same page. And this whole "it doesn't work for ten years and then suddenly abracadabra" thing? Honestly, it sounds pretty sketchy to me.
Karen Sullivan78 said:Alright, I'm with you—that term is definitely a bit clunky right off the bat.
Right away, under the basic terms—meaning without countering your partner (uke)—but also without...
Stop with this nonsense... I’m gonna drop this even though your technique was trash, but in five years I’ll be like, "Actually, you were onto something," because by then you'll finally find your way... blah blah blah... etc.We’re basically on the same page; the only thing that matters is breaking these techniques down and tackling them one step at a time.
Look, I could walk you through three different ways to set up a triangle and tell you exactly how to wrap it up... but you probably won't do it right. I’ve seen plenty of guys try that approach and absolutely butcher it.
Look, you gotta nail those hip and leg movements first. You should be drilling that for a few sessions before you even touch triangles—and honestly, everyone does that. At the same time, you need to actually grasp the point of the technique. It’s better to hammer the movement until it's muscle memory before moving on a session or two later; otherwise, people just end up obsessing over the choke mechanics instead of drilling the actual movement they need to master.
First, you gotta figure out which weight class actually lets you pull off a triangle. Once that's set, you grind the setup and the full technique. Only then does a basic triangle—without all the extra nonsense about counters and counter-counters—actually work.
Sure, but only if you want a triangle setup where even a pro wrestler can't escape the choke.
If you don't care, just tighten it up and get on with it. 😁
Exactly.
Every technique needs movement drills, whether you’re working from the ground or on your feet. You’ve got to drill hip mobility—that’s huge for pretty much any BJJ style out there. Every single move, regardless of the specific system, has a few fundamental phases. You have to define the movement and the posture for each phase. That’s how you build enough muscle memory to handle mistakes when things start moving fast.
Techniques can stray from the original template sometimes, but you’ll still get the same result in the end.I don't think that’s even what you meant by that paragraph, but basically, we're on the same page. And this whole "it doesn't work for ten years and then suddenly abracadabra" thing? Honestly, it sounds pretty sketchy to me.
I think I finally cleared up what I meant by "IMMEDIATELY," and your point about the triangle choke definitely backs that up. When you're just starting out, the specific technique matters way less than actually being in the right spot. If your body positioning and movement aren't on point, you aren't doing anything smart. Good positioning creates that "time window" to actually execute the move—without it, the technique doesn't even exist.
Technique obviously improves day by day, but this idea that you get a sudden explosion of quality after ten years of grinding on the mats is just total nonsense.
Update: That "abracadabra" term you used perfectly describes that whole process of
ten-year mystification.
Karen Sullivan78 said:Alright, I'm with you—that term is definitely a bit clunky right off the bat.
Right away, under the basic terms—meaning without countering your partner (uke)—but also without...
Stop with this nonsense... I’m gonna drop this even though your technique was trash, but in five years I’ll be like, "Actually, you were onto something," because by then you'll finally find your way... blah blah blah... etc.We’re basically on the same page; the only thing that matters is breaking these techniques down and tackling them one step at a time.
Look, I could walk you through three different ways to set up a triangle and tell you exactly how to wrap it up... but you probably won't do it right. I’ve seen plenty of guys try that approach and absolutely butcher it.
Look, you gotta nail those hip and leg movements first. You should be drilling that for a few sessions before you even touch triangles—and honestly, everyone does that. At the same time, you need to actually grasp the point of the technique. It’s better to hammer the movement until it's muscle memory before moving on a session or two later; otherwise, people just end up obsessing over the choke mechanics instead of drilling the actual movement they need to master.
First, you gotta figure out which weight class actually lets you pull off a triangle. Once that's set, you grind the setup and the full technique. Only then does a basic triangle—without all the extra nonsense about counters and counter-counters—actually work.
Sure, but only if you want a triangle setup where even a pro wrestler can't escape the choke.
If you don't care, just tighten it up and get on with it. 😁
Exactly.
Every technique needs movement drills, whether you’re working from the ground or on your feet. You’ve got to drill hip mobility—that’s huge for pretty much any BJJ style out there. Every single move, regardless of the specific system, has a few fundamental phases. You have to define the movement and the posture for each phase. That’s how you build enough muscle memory to handle mistakes when things start moving fast.
Techniques can stray from the original template sometimes, but you’ll still get the same result in the end.I don't think that’s even what you meant by that paragraph, but basically, we're on the same page. And this whole "it doesn't work for ten years and then suddenly abracadabra" thing? Honestly, it sounds pretty sketchy to me.
I think I finally cleared up what I meant by "IMMEDIATELY," and your point about the triangle choke definitely backs that up. When you're just starting out, the specific technique matters way less than actually being in the right spot. If your body positioning and movement aren't on point, you aren't doing anything smart. Good positioning creates that "time window" to actually execute the move—without it, the technique doesn't even exist.
Technique obviously improves day by day, but this idea that you get a sudden explosion of quality after ten years of grinding on the mats is just total nonsense.
Update: That "abracadabra" term you used perfectly describes that whole process of
ten-year mystification.
Update: That "abracadabra" thing you mentioned earlier... I guess that might be the best way to describe that whole process of
ten years of pure mystification.
