Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Well said... ! 👍

dustytiger8 said:So, according to you—and by "many," you mean who exactly?—there are such things as "good" dictatorships? Like some version of enlightened absolutism?

Give me an example from history or the present day. Name one.

There have certainly been effective dictatorships. Democracy is a relatively recent invention that wouldn't have moved civilization much forward through most of human history. Even in these so-called democracies, elites hold the reins; the idea of democratic choice is largely just a well-crafted farce.

Anthony Hill5 said:And let us not forget that the daughter shared her father's exact worldview; she hosted her own radio and television programs where she faithfully peddled her father's fascist ideology along with relentless anti-Ukraine propaganda and disinformation.

So, was terrorism the necessary response?

Jose Clark2 said:So, was terrorism the necessary response?

ABSOLUTELY.

Jose Clark2 said:There have certainly been effective dictatorships. Democracy is a relatively recent invention that wouldn't have moved civilization much forward through most of human history. Even in these so-called democracies, elites hold the reins; the idea of democratic choice is largely just a well-crafted farce.

Well, if they actually existed, they certainly aren't around anymore. They must have been *too* good, because they've vanished completely... 😁

Jose Clark2 said:There have certainly been effective dictatorships. Democracy is a relatively recent invention that wouldn't have moved civilization much forward through most of human history. Even in these so-called democracies, elites hold the reins; the idea of democratic choice is largely just a well-crafted farce.

It’s easy to talk big when you're living in a free democratic society.

Over there, they'll toss you in a cage and send you to Siberia for 15 years... all over something trivial.
Like calling it a war instead of a "special operation."

Jose Clark2 said:There have certainly been effective dictatorships. Democracy is a relatively recent invention that wouldn't have moved civilization much forward through most of human history. Even in these so-called democracies, elites hold the reins; the idea of democratic choice is largely just a well-crafted farce.

👍

Listing them shouldn't be an issue then, right!? Or... !?

Democracy is a "new invention"!? Give me a break... !
Are you suggesting today's version of parliamentary democracy is some recent novelty!?
Hint: demos+kratein (Greek).

Thomas Nelson25 said:It’s easy to talk big when you're living in a free democratic society.

Over there, they'll toss you in a cage and send you to Siberia for 15 years... all over something trivial.
Like calling it a war instead of a "special operation."

You're oversimplifying things. Claiming Russia is still a democracy ignores how laws actually function. Even here in America, minor offenses can land you behind bars for years or even life. It's all about the legal framework.

The reality is more nuanced than just the political system; you have the rule of law and the separation of powers to consider. Legal systems vary wildly. Then there's the matter of human rights. Take the USA, for instance—acting as a beacon of democracy while using drones to eliminate ideological enemies abroad, often resulting in civilian casualties and zero right to a fair trial.

dustytiger8 said:👍

Listing them shouldn't be an issue then, right!? Or... !?

Democracy is a "new invention"!? Give me a break... !
Are you suggesting today's version of parliamentary democracy is some recent novelty!?
Hint: demos+kratein (Greek).

Most of human history didn't involve any semblance of democracy. The greatest milestones—organized empires, stable states, scientific breakthroughs—all happened under heavy-handed dictatorships. You can't run a functional democracy when surrounded by barbarians, much less with a population that's backwards and uneducated.

Jose Clark2 said:You're oversimplifying things. Claiming Russia is still a democracy ignores how laws actually function. Even here in America, minor offenses can land you behind bars for years or even life. It's all about the legal framework.

The reality is more nuanced than just the political system; you have the rule of law and the separation of powers to consider. Legal systems vary wildly. Then there's the matter of human rights. Take the USA, for instance—acting as a beacon of democracy while using drones to eliminate ideological enemies abroad, often resulting in civilian casualties and zero right to a fair trial.

Is there even such a thing as a "mafia-style autocratic oligarchical democracy"? 🤔

Take the USA, for example. We act like the world's beacon of democracy while hunting down ideological enemies with drones, usually leaving a trail of civilian casualties in our wake—all without ever giving anyone a fair shake in court.

Islamic terrorists don't get any rights to a democratic trial or due process. If there's collateral damage, that's on them. ☕

Jose Clark2 said:You're oversimplifying things. Claiming Russia is still a democracy ignores how laws actually function. Even here in America, minor offenses can land you behind bars for years or even life. It's all about the legal framework.

The reality is more nuanced than just the political system; you have the rule of law and the separation of powers to consider. Legal systems vary wildly. Then there's the matter of human rights. Take the USA, for instance—acting as a beacon of democracy while using drones to eliminate ideological enemies abroad, often resulting in civilian casualties and zero right to a fair trial.

Russia isn't a democracy. Period.

The "law" over there is basically designed to crush the opposition, poison leaders, and throw people in jail.

The USA (and other Western democracies) actually have strong institutions... we've seen that play out over the last few years.
American wars or interventions are a whole different beast. They haven't really pulled it off—culturally speaking—and they're starting to realize that now.
Ukraine is part of Europe... pro-Western.

Peter Barnes said:Glossary, let’s be real—there is no such thing as a "good" or "democratic" socialism. You younger folks clearly didn't sit through any courses on the theory and practice of self-managed socialism back in school, and you obviously haven't spent much time digging into the Capital Group. If you had, you'd understand that the bedrock of building communism—or even socialism as a transitional phase—is "class struggle." There isn't any room for mercy or democracy in that process. What you’re calling democratic socialism isn't actually socialism at all. The only reason socialism ever functioned was because capitalists realized they could lose everything if they didn't allow others enough breathing room to survive. They eventually figured out that you need a consumer base to sell your products to, and you can't exactly sell anything to the destitute—well, except for alcohol and tobacco, I suppose; those are universal constants.

It was a capitalist like Henry Ford who was among the first to really grasp that logic.

@Jose Clark2

Let’s stop painting with such a broad brush and try being specific for once. Let's use some precision. 🙂

Name one dictatorship from the last 200 years of human history that was actually "good."

dustytiger8 said:@Jose Clark2

Let’s stop painting with such a broad brush and try being specific for once. Let's use some precision. 🙂

Name one dictatorship from the last 200 years of human history that was actually "good."

Any successful dictatorship could be considered "good." It really just comes down to who it served—whether the net result for the citizens was positive or negative. I have little interest in romantic, moralistic fantasies about the sanctity of democracy, which doesn't truly exist anywhere anyway. 😉

Fine, name just one "successful dictatorship" from the last 200 years of human history. 😉

Anthony Perez9 said:Is there even such a thing as a "mafia-style autocratic oligarchical democracy"? 🤔

Take the USA, for example. We act like the world's beacon of democracy while hunting down ideological enemies with drones, usually leaving a trail of civilian casualties in our wake—all without ever giving anyone a fair shake in court.

Islamic terrorists don't get any rights to a democratic trial or due process. If there's collateral damage, that's on them. ☕

🤣🤣

No, you're mistaken. Who decided they are all terrorists? And why shouldn't they be entitled to a fair trial under the law? This feels more like ideological political executions.

dustytiger8 said:Fine, name just one "successful dictatorship" from the last 200 years of human history. 😉

The British Monarchy.
Japan before World War II.

Now you try... tell me about one successful democracy in the last 200 years of human history?

With China in the mix, they’re basically stuck in a loop of playing catch-up—just constantly copying and ripping off what they call the "decadent, individualistic West."

Look, freedom definitely has its perks.

If anyone actually thinks a Russia like this has anything worth offering the rest of the world—you know, as some kind of beacon of progress—today or tomorrow...
And honestly, what could they possibly have?

Jack Jackson7 said:ABSOLUTELY.

No.
She and anyone else playing this game should face trial just like the notorious host of that Rwandan radio station, RTLM Georges omara Ruggi, the man known as the voice of genocide during the Rwandan conflict.

dustytiger8 said:@Jose Clark2

Let’s stop painting with such a broad brush and try being specific for once. Let's use some precision. 🙂

Name one dictatorship from the last 200 years of human history that was actually "good."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa

Maybe some more recent ones. We could even bring up FDR, though whether he qualifies as a dictator is debatable.