Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

A quiet lull following the arrival of the Russian world.

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/st...39984612786178

placidtiger142 said:Maybe there’s a fix, but it would take some seriously nasty maneuvering, massive deals, and insane willpower.

Hand over a slice of territory to the Russians just to stop more young and old Ukrainians from getting slaughtered, BUT...

Make sure the price tag is absolutely astronomical. The West needs to strike a secret deal, give the Ukrainians every single guarantee that everything destroyed gets rebuilt within two years, and then isolate Russia so hard they won't even show up on a Western compass anymore.

I’m not talking about an Iron Curtain—I mean a wall like the one in GOT.

Pull all the tech out. All the goods, all the manufacturing. No visas for anything that leans toward the West. Basically, make both the Southwest and Northwest completely off-limits to them.

No cars, no software, no tech... don't sell them a damn thing. I mean none of this "symbolic sanctions" nonsense, but literally...

Here’s what you asked for, but because of that, you don't exist to us anymore, and we don't exist to you. You’ve got China and India and a whole lot of nothing else.

They didn't send that turbine to China or India for repairs; they sent it to Germany and Canada.

The Ukrainians can hand back the territory; who cares what they do with it? They're the poorest people in Europe. They wouldn't be able to rebuild it even in 150 years, and generations would just die from hunger and disease while the world forgets them in a heartbeat. The war is over. You got your land back, now go screw yourselves, we've got our own problems to deal with.

Look, the EU and the USA cough up a few billion, and they rebuild the people in Ukraine until it looks like Dubai. In exchange, the EU gets to grab a little bit of Ukraine's natural resources, but at least people won't be dying and living in rubble and dust for the next century or two.

One small American state hasn't been blown to bits yet, but what's gonna happen to Ukraine when it's nothing but ash?

Basically, screw the Russians. Give them the middle finger while letting them think they actually won. Let them build the walls, pave the roads, lay the sewers, and run the phone lines, but ban them from everything else. Like, you go straight to jail if we catch you selling a smartphone to a Russian.

Why am I saying this?

Because what are those poor Ukrainians gonna do? Kick the Russians out in a year or two and take back Crimea?

What are they supposed to do with a massive stretch of territory that's just ashes, inhabited by people barely surviving??

Ukraine can't get back what existed before the invasion because it's gone. Russia wiped it out. So, you might as well give it to them since it isn't what it used to be. Before February 24th, a square meter was worth a fortune; now, it's worth negative 300. Who wants anything there?? Not even a scavenger would want to pick through that. But listen, we aren't talking about going back 50 years—man, it's gonna be worse than some remote village in China with 14 people living in it.

A bicycle should be a luxury item; let them kill each other over a bike.

What kind of power plant? Wooden wheels, my foot.

Keep it simple and civil. I have nothing against them, but I'm not selling you anything.

These guys trashed a fifth of the country, and now they want people to bleed for years just to get it back? For what? Rubble? Nothing but rubble...

Sent from my iPhone 12 using Reddit

Okay, let's play out a scenario where Ukraine actually gets everything back.
In my opinion, we shouldn't even think about lifting sanctions until Russia sits down and strikes a deal with Ukraine to pay for all the damages. I mean, seriously, those sanctions should stay put unless there's actual compensation involved.

Sanctions are actually working.
It’s pretty obvious this winter is going to be rough.
Plus, there's grain being sent to countries that are struggling—you know, places in the developing world.

Then you've got Ukraine's ability to ramp up their military production during the war.

There are just a ton of factors at play here.

I've heard from several different sources that Afghanistan used to be a perfectly safe destination for travelers, but then Americans went and ruined everything.
I can't help but wonder if this kind of misinformation is being fed directly to communists.

It seems like this Milsim scenario is actually meant to reflect Afghanistan during Zahir's era in the mid-70s.
I highly doubt there was any tourism back when the Taliban were in power, especially since the Russians basically leveled every major city into rubble during the 80s.

boldmarlin32 said:I've heard from several different sources that Afghanistan used to be a perfectly safe destination for travelers, but then Americans went and ruined everything.
I can't help but wonder if this kind of misinformation is being fed directly to communists.

But seriously, what was it actually like before the Soviet invasion?

George Robinson43 said:It seems like this Milsim scenario is actually meant to reflect Afghanistan during Zahir's era in the mid-70s.
I highly doubt there was any tourism back when the Taliban were in power, especially since the Russians basically leveled every major city into rubble during the 80s.

If we're discussing the 70s...
From what I've heard, the Soviets weren't even the issue; it was the Americans who messed everything up.
Wait, did the Americans get involved in 2001, or was it earlier?

boldmarlin32 said:I've heard from several different sources that Afghanistan used to be a perfectly safe destination for travelers, but then Americans went and ruined everything.
I can't help but wonder if this kind of misinformation is being fed directly to communists.

Exactly. Before the US got involved, you had tourists coming in from Russia; it just wasn't quite as predictable.

electricsurfer47 said:Okay, let's play out a scenario where Ukraine actually gets everything back.
In my opinion, we shouldn't even think about lifting sanctions until Russia sits down and strikes a deal with Ukraine to pay for all the damages. I mean, seriously, those sanctions should stay put unless there's actual compensation involved.

Honestly, I don't see those sanctions ever being lifted, even if they somehow manage to reach a peace agreement tomorrow.

boldmarlin32 said:If we're discussing the 70s...
From what I've heard, the Soviets weren't even the issue; it was the Americans who messed everything up.
Wait, did the Americans get involved in 2001, or was it earlier?

???
Russia essentially leveled Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.
It's hard to imagine Americans being the ones to spark a communist revolution there!

George Robinson43 said:???
Russia essentially leveled Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.
It's hard to imagine Americans being the ones to spark a communist revolution there!

Just look at the history. The mujahideen were primarily backed by the USA, then various Muslim nations, and so on...
It even states the USA fought alongside the mujahideen.
That’s my point; everyone has their own version of the story.
The Russians arrived for humanitarian reasons to save Afghanistan from terrorists.
The Americans, Jews, and the West—they all fueled the Islamization.
Which brings me back to what I said. I am tired of hearing these endless Eastern mantras.

boldmarlin32 said:I've heard from several different sources that Afghanistan used to be a perfectly safe destination for travelers, but then Americans went and ruined everything.
I can't help but wonder if this kind of misinformation is being fed directly to communists.

That was really only the case in places like Kabuk or perhaps one other major metropolitan area. Out in the rural countryside, things were pretty much the same then as they are now, and honestly, probably just as they have been for centuries.

Afghanistan.

boldmarlin32 said:Just look at the history. The mujahideen were primarily backed by the USA, then various Muslim nations, and so on...
It even states the USA fought alongside the mujahideen.
That’s my point; everyone has their own version of the story.
The Russians arrived for humanitarian reasons to save Afghanistan from terrorists.
The Americans, Jews, and the West—they all fueled the Islamization.
Which brings me back to what I said. I am tired of hearing these endless Eastern mantras.

However, it wasn't the mujahideen who leveled the country to the ground. That was the work of the Russians.
The Communists staged a coup and attempted to implement a dictatorship of the proletariat. When the leaders in Moscow realized that 90% of the population opposed them and that their plan for a satellite state in the south was failing, they launched an invasion and destroyed everything in their path.

boldmarlin32 said:Just look at the history. The mujahideen were primarily backed by the USA, then various Muslim nations, and so on...
It even states the USA fought alongside the mujahideen.
That’s my point; everyone has their own version of the story.
The Russians arrived for humanitarian reasons to save Afghanistan from terrorists.
The Americans, Jews, and the West—they all fueled the Islamization.
Which brings me back to what I said. I am tired of hearing these endless Eastern mantras.

Maybe you should try taking your own advice for once. That communist coup set off a chain reaction that we can still trace all the way to today.

The Soviet destruction of the state just made the whole mess worse.

The Russians never showed up anywhere for "humanitarian" reasons; even when they're acting as UN observers, they're committing war crimes.

And the USA wasn't out there fighting side-by-side with the mujahideen. Sure, the CIA was neck-deep in the whole thing, but it's a stretch to say they were actually in Afghanistan swinging rifles against the Soviets.

Donna Harris11 said:Honestly, I don't see those sanctions ever being lifted, even if they somehow manage to reach a peace agreement tomorrow.

Honestly, why even bother? They don't even need to be lifted. It’s the same old song and dance with Russia—they claim all these sanctions are useless, yet the second they sit down at the negotiating table, it's "okay, now can we get rid of them?"

The Russian people are basically paying the tab for their leader's ego, and they're totally fine with it. Anyone actually buying the line that they have no idea what's happening in their own country is just being incredibly naive.

Jeremy Peterson4 said:Honestly, why even bother? They don't even need to be lifted. It’s the same old song and dance with Russia—they claim all these sanctions are useless, yet the second they sit down at the negotiating table, it's "okay, now can we get rid of them?"

The Russian people are basically paying the tab for their leader's ego, and they're totally fine with it. Anyone actually buying the line that they have no idea what's happening in their own country is just being incredibly naive.

McDonald's is killing it right now. Honestly, their food has never tasted better. If they ever lifted those sanctions, the dollar would be unstoppable.😵

swiftjackal11 said:McDonald's is killing it right now. Honestly, their food has never tasted better. If they ever lifted those sanctions, the dollar would be unstoppable.😵

I mean, seriously? What were they even waiting for? It’s like they missed the memo that everything is working perfectly fine despite all those sanctions. 🤣

Jeremy Peterson4 said:Honestly, why even bother? They don't even need to be lifted. It’s the same old song and dance with Russia—they claim all these sanctions are useless, yet the second they sit down at the negotiating table, it's "okay, now can we get rid of them?"

The Russian people are basically paying the tab for their leader's ego, and they're totally fine with it. Anyone actually buying the line that they have no idea what's happening in their own country is just being incredibly naive.

It is obvious you have never lived in a nation where the propaganda machine grinds away, processing its citizens 24/7/365 for years on end. People notice the holes in the government narrative, but when there is no alternative source of information, many eventually succumb to the constant barrage. Those who don't buy the narrative don't speak up because they refuse to jeopardize their own safety. It is more prudent to remain silent, while those who believe it speak out—creating the illusion of total consensus. The only variable today is the internet, though I am uncertain how much access the general public truly has, or how much censorship limits it there.

Nancy Gomez26 said:It is obvious you have never lived in a nation where the propaganda machine grinds away, processing its citizens 24/7/365 for years on end. People notice the holes in the government narrative, but when there is no alternative source of information, many eventually succumb to the constant barrage. Those who don't buy the narrative don't speak up because they refuse to jeopardize their own safety. It is more prudent to remain silent, while those who believe it speak out—creating the illusion of total consensus. The only variable today is the internet, though I am uncertain how much access the general public truly has, or how much censorship limits it there.

Save that fairy tale for someone else. It’s not like nobody in Russia is talking to friends or family over in Europe, totally clueless about what's going on. As soon as one person gets the real scoop, it spreads through the population like an epidemic. Plus, I seriously doubt highly educated Russians are falling for that nonsense, and I also doubt they haven't seen news about how even Garry Kasparov isn't openly bashing Russia over the invasion. Information always finds a way to leak through, no matter how hard a country tries to spin the truth.
Plus the internet, like you mentioned.

I didn't say the whole nation, but the vast majority definitely are, otherwise we'd be seeing a massive revolt against Putin. Speaking of which, there were protests all over Russia where massive crowds were arrested.