Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Interesting report from CNN out of Lisbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQJ...RANCE24English

Getting into the city is a total pain, you have to cut through these random fields... and I don't know, it almost looks like the locals there might actually be siding with Russia?!

Donna Harris11 said:Interesting report from CNN out of Lisbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQJ...RANCE24English

Getting into the city is a total pain, you have to cut through these random fields... and I don't know, it almost looks like the locals there might actually be siding with Russia?!

Stop wasting your breath, just look.

Donna Harris11 said:Interesting report from CNN out of Lisbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQJ...RANCE24English

Getting into the city is a total pain, you have to cut through these random fields... and I don't know, it almost looks like the locals there might actually be siding with Russia?!

And that’s exactly why they’re going to keep bombing and leveling everything in sight. They claim they need to take the city just to "protect" some sick, innocent civilians... wait, sorry, I was thinking about that tragedy back in Memphis... No, let's be "correct"... they are doing it to "protect" sick Russian children... It's the exact same excuse, isn't it? Just different names for the same lie.

Best,

Donna Harris11 said:Interesting report from CNN out of Lisbon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQJ...RANCE24English

Getting into the city is a total pain, you have to cut through these random fields... and I don't know, it almost looks like the locals there might actually be siding with Russia?!

Honestly, it's not surprising that the folks who stayed behind are siding with Russia.

Still, the whole uprising in Donbas kicked off in Slavonic territory.

analogbear5 said:Honestly, it's not surprising that the folks who stayed behind are siding with Russia.

Still, the whole uprising in Donbas kicked off in Slavonic territory.

The old folks there are basically banking on the idea that Putin can pull together better pensions than the European Union ever could.😬

It’s not just all those old ladies.

There is one woman in this documentary who refused to vote for him because his actions have completely betrayed his rhetoric, leaving her with zero trust left to give. Of course, when it comes to the whole mess involving the Ukrainian zealots, everything he and his propaganda machine churn out is treated as absolute gospel truth, regardless of how absurd it sounds today.

The film actually focuses on the fracturing of families—children turning against parents, husbands and wives drifting apart—all as a direct fallout from Putin's fascist crusade against Ukraine (and by extension, Russia itself). It’s a story that hits uncomfortably close to home for me; I’ve stopped speaking to my younger brother, a cynical little troll who fancies himself an "independent thinker" while merely regurgitating the same nonsense found in this film, all thanks to the brainwashing effects of Putin's propaganda.

I honestly think Ukraine is going to end up at the negotiating table with Russia to wrap this war up, because today the Ukrainian Army pulled out of Severodonetsk and Lisbon, which basically means the Russian Army has full control over Luhansk Oblast and owns the place. I mean, what happens to the rest of Donbas? Maybe not all of it, but most of that territory and the southern regions might just be gone for good, and Ukraine might have to face that reality. Sure, maybe there’ll be some kind of counter-offensive where they claw back bits and pieces, but I seriously doubt the Ukrainian Army is marching into Crimea or Donetsk and Luhansk anytime soon. They had their window between 2014 and maybe 2018 to really train up the military and crush the separatists in Donbas with an offensive like Operation Desert Storm, but they just dragged their feet, and let's be real, those Minsk agreements were broken constantly anyway.

I truly feel for them, though—losing land like that feels like having your soul ripped out. I want nothing but luck and support for the Ukrainians, but the Russian Army is just too powerful. I guess I even feel a little bit angry about it, you know? Like, they just marched onto someone else's land under the guise of "this isn't yours anymore, it's mine because I'm stronger," and then they start swinging.

But hey, it is what it is.
I reckon this whole thing will be wrapped up by halfway through next year, and Ukraine is going to lose a massive chunk of territory. As for what happens to the East, nobody knows. There’s damage done to God knows how much, and who knows how Russia will even invest there while they're under all these sanctions? Honestly, I don't see those sanctions doing much besides hitting Europe and driving up prices; feels like we just shot ourselves in the foot.

It's just sad.
I'm honestly disappointed in people again, just... why do we do this to one another?
Sometimes I actually wish I hadn't been born a human, maybe like a dog or something, so I wouldn't have a conscience or have to deal with knowing what's happening in the world.
It’s just awful. This whole war feels completely pointless, just like when everything kicked off in Donbas back in 2014.

What do you guys think the outcome of the war will be?
And what's the final result of all this mess?

silentraven9 said:I honestly think Ukraine is going to end up at the negotiating table with Russia to wrap this war up, because today the Ukrainian Army pulled out of Severodonetsk and Lisbon, which basically means the Russian Army has full control over Luhansk Oblast and owns the place. I mean, what happens to the rest of Donbas? Maybe not all of it, but most of that territory and the southern regions might just be gone for good, and Ukraine might have to face that reality. Sure, maybe there’ll be some kind of counter-offensive where they claw back bits and pieces, but I seriously doubt the Ukrainian Army is marching into Crimea or Donetsk and Luhansk anytime soon. They had their window between 2014 and maybe 2018 to really train up the military and crush the separatists in Donbas with an offensive like Operation Desert Storm, but they just dragged their feet, and let's be real, those Minsk agreements were broken constantly anyway.

I truly feel for them, though—losing land like that feels like having your soul ripped out. I want nothing but luck and support for the Ukrainians, but the Russian Army is just too powerful. I guess I even feel a little bit angry about it, you know? Like, they just marched onto someone else's land under the guise of "this isn't yours anymore, it's mine because I'm stronger," and then they start swinging.

But hey, it is what it is.
I reckon this whole thing will be wrapped up by halfway through next year, and Ukraine is going to lose a massive chunk of territory. As for what happens to the East, nobody knows. There’s damage done to God knows how much, and who knows how Russia will even invest there while they're under all these sanctions? Honestly, I don't see those sanctions doing much besides hitting Europe and driving up prices; feels like we just shot ourselves in the foot.

It's just sad.
I'm honestly disappointed in people again, just... why do we do this to one another?
Sometimes I actually wish I hadn't been born a human, maybe like a dog or something, so I wouldn't have a conscience or have to deal with knowing what's happening in the world.
It’s just awful. This whole war feels completely pointless, just like when everything kicked off in Donbas back in 2014.

What do you guys think the outcome of the war will be?
And what's the final result of all this mess?

You're wasting your breath.

silentraven9 said:I honestly think Ukraine is going to end up at the negotiating table with Russia to wrap this war up, because today the Ukrainian Army pulled out of Severodonetsk and Lisbon, which basically means the Russian Army has full control over Luhansk Oblast and owns the place. I mean, what happens to the rest of Donbas? Maybe not all of it, but most of that territory and the southern regions might just be gone for good, and Ukraine might have to face that reality. Sure, maybe there’ll be some kind of counter-offensive where they claw back bits and pieces, but I seriously doubt the Ukrainian Army is marching into Crimea or Donetsk and Luhansk anytime soon. They had their window between 2014 and maybe 2018 to really train up the military and crush the separatists in Donbas with an offensive like Operation Desert Storm, but they just dragged their feet, and let's be real, those Minsk agreements were broken constantly anyway.

I truly feel for them, though—losing land like that feels like having your soul ripped out. I want nothing but luck and support for the Ukrainians, but the Russian Army is just too powerful. I guess I even feel a little bit angry about it, you know? Like, they just marched onto someone else's land under the guise of "this isn't yours anymore, it's mine because I'm stronger," and then they start swinging.

But hey, it is what it is.
I reckon this whole thing will be wrapped up by halfway through next year, and Ukraine is going to lose a massive chunk of territory. As for what happens to the East, nobody knows. There’s damage done to God knows how much, and who knows how Russia will even invest there while they're under all these sanctions? Honestly, I don't see those sanctions doing much besides hitting Europe and driving up prices; feels like we just shot ourselves in the foot.

It's just sad.
I'm honestly disappointed in people again, just... why do we do this to one another?
Sometimes I actually wish I hadn't been born a human, maybe like a dog or something, so I wouldn't have a conscience or have to deal with knowing what's happening in the world.
It’s just awful. This whole war feels completely pointless, just like when everything kicked off in Donbas back in 2014.

What do you guys think the outcome of the war will be?
And what's the final result of all this mess?

The US lost a third of its territory during the first three years of that war, too.

silentraven9 said:I honestly think Ukraine is going to end up at the negotiating table with Russia to wrap this war up, because today the Ukrainian Army pulled out of Severodonetsk and Lisbon, which basically means the Russian Army has full control over Luhansk Oblast and owns the place. I mean, what happens to the rest of Donbas? Maybe not all of it, but most of that territory and the southern regions might just be gone for good, and Ukraine might have to face that reality. Sure, maybe there’ll be some kind of counter-offensive where they claw back bits and pieces, but I seriously doubt the Ukrainian Army is marching into Crimea or Donetsk and Luhansk anytime soon. They had their window between 2014 and maybe 2018 to really train up the military and crush the separatists in Donbas with an offensive like Operation Desert Storm, but they just dragged their feet, and let's be real, those Minsk agreements were broken constantly anyway.

I truly feel for them, though—losing land like that feels like having your soul ripped out. I want nothing but luck and support for the Ukrainians, but the Russian Army is just too powerful. I guess I even feel a little bit angry about it, you know? Like, they just marched onto someone else's land under the guise of "this isn't yours anymore, it's mine because I'm stronger," and then they start swinging.

But hey, it is what it is.
I reckon this whole thing will be wrapped up by halfway through next year, and Ukraine is going to lose a massive chunk of territory. As for what happens to the East, nobody knows. There’s damage done to God knows how much, and who knows how Russia will even invest there while they're under all these sanctions? Honestly, I don't see those sanctions doing much besides hitting Europe and driving up prices; feels like we just shot ourselves in the foot.

It's just sad.
I'm honestly disappointed in people again, just... why do we do this to one another?
Sometimes I actually wish I hadn't been born a human, maybe like a dog or something, so I wouldn't have a conscience or have to deal with knowing what's happening in the world.
It’s just awful. This whole war feels completely pointless, just like when everything kicked off in Donbas back in 2014.

What do you guys think the outcome of the war will be?
And what's the final result of all this mess?

As a friend of mine put it, Ukraine has already lost. Even in a best-case scenario where they reclaim their land and drive out the Russians, they are left with massive casualties, displaced families, scorched earth, and half their industry in ruins. We are looking at decades of pain, suffering, reconstruction, and poverty ahead.

A Russian enterprise flourishes just as steadily today as it did during those stagnant decades past.

It isn’t even that anyone launched an attack against them; rather, their struggles stem from deep-seated internal flaws—the exact same systemic issues currently plaguing Ukraine.

(Though, to be fair, while ordinary citizens in Russia didn't exactly have much of a choice if they wanted to avoid loss, they certainly had more breathing room than Ukrainians did.)

And as for those newly minted imperial territories—those gangster-run pseudo-states known as "LNR" and "DNR"—well, one can hardly blame anyone for wanting to live there.

Lisa Anderson8 said:As a friend of mine put it, Ukraine has already lost. Even in a best-case scenario where they reclaim their land and drive out the Russians, they are left with massive casualties, displaced families, scorched earth, and half their industry in ruins. We are looking at decades of pain, suffering, reconstruction, and poverty ahead.

Yeah, exactly. That's the "best" outcome, really. Any other way this goes, especially if Russia keeps control over Ukraine (well, what's left of it), is just going to be way, way worse.

Lisa Anderson8 said:As a friend of mine put it, Ukraine has already lost. Even in a best-case scenario where they reclaim their land and drive out the Russians, they are left with massive casualties, displaced families, scorched earth, and half their industry in ruins. We are looking at decades of pain, suffering, reconstruction, and poverty ahead.

Besides, what country would actually be better off sharing a border with Russia? 🤷

First off, thanks to Lina for sharing those little "insider tips." I still firmly believe that Ukraine will reclaim its territory—even if it takes thirty years—and it’s even possible they might choose to return on their own terms (though I pray that long-term scenario never actually happens). They were cast out decades ago through sheer devastation, destruction, looting, and displacement. It's a pain we've felt firsthand here in America. What I want for Russia is that the cost becomes so devastating they won't recover for centuries—so that, much like our own "neighbors," they spend their time whining over every little thing and rewriting their own alternative history. Let this drag on long enough for their people to finally reset and break under the pressure of the villains ruling them—perhaps leading to another October Revolution. By then, Ukraine will likely have evolved into a modern democracy and can finally choose its own path.

Maybe there’s a fix, but it would take some seriously nasty maneuvering, massive deals, and insane willpower.

Hand over a slice of territory to the Russians just to stop more young and old Ukrainians from getting slaughtered, BUT...

Make sure the price tag is absolutely astronomical. The West needs to strike a secret deal, give the Ukrainians every single guarantee that everything destroyed gets rebuilt within two years, and then isolate Russia so hard they won't even show up on a Western compass anymore.

I’m not talking about an Iron Curtain—I mean a wall like the one in GOT.

Pull all the tech out. All the goods, all the manufacturing. No visas for anything that leans toward the West. Basically, make both the Southwest and Northwest completely off-limits to them.

No cars, no software, no tech... don't sell them a damn thing. I mean none of this "symbolic sanctions" nonsense, but literally...

Here’s what you asked for, but because of that, you don't exist to us anymore, and we don't exist to you. You’ve got China and India and a whole lot of nothing else.

They didn't send that turbine to China or India for repairs; they sent it to Germany and Canada.

The Ukrainians can hand back the territory; who cares what they do with it? They're the poorest people in Europe. They wouldn't be able to rebuild it even in 150 years, and generations would just die from hunger and disease while the world forgets them in a heartbeat. The war is over. You got your land back, now go screw yourselves, we've got our own problems to deal with.

Look, the EU and the USA cough up a few billion, and they rebuild the people in Ukraine until it looks like Dubai. In exchange, the EU gets to grab a little bit of Ukraine's natural resources, but at least people won't be dying and living in rubble and dust for the next century or two.

One small American state hasn't been blown to bits yet, but what's gonna happen to Ukraine when it's nothing but ash?

Basically, screw the Russians. Give them the middle finger while letting them think they actually won. Let them build the walls, pave the roads, lay the sewers, and run the phone lines, but ban them from everything else. Like, you go straight to jail if we catch you selling a smartphone to a Russian.

Why am I saying this?

Because what are those poor Ukrainians gonna do? Kick the Russians out in a year or two and take back Crimea?

What are they supposed to do with a massive stretch of territory that's just ashes, inhabited by people barely surviving??

Ukraine can't get back what existed before the invasion because it's gone. Russia wiped it out. So, you might as well give it to them since it isn't what it used to be. Before February 24th, a square meter was worth a fortune; now, it's worth negative 300. Who wants anything there?? Not even a scavenger would want to pick through that. But listen, we aren't talking about going back 50 years—man, it's gonna be worse than some remote village in China with 14 people living in it.

A bicycle should be a luxury item; let them kill each other over a bike.

What kind of power plant? Wooden wheels, my foot.

Keep it simple and civil. I have nothing against them, but I'm not selling you anything.

These guys trashed a fifth of the country, and now they want people to bleed for years just to get it back? For what? Rubble? Nothing but rubble...

Sent from my iPhone 12 using Reddit

Lisa Anderson8 said:As a friend of mine put it, Ukraine has already lost. Even in a best-case scenario where they reclaim their land and drive out the Russians, they are left with massive casualties, displaced families, scorched earth, and half their industry in ruins. We are looking at decades of pain, suffering, reconstruction, and poverty ahead.

So, what, it's better to just take a sip of something and surrender to the Russians?
It is a tragic state of affairs when you and your friend would both be forced into the infantry..
Even with all this suffering, Ukrainians are still doing financially better than 90% of the Russians living in various backwater towns.

Gerald Torres84 said:So, what, it's better to just take a sip of something and surrender to the Russians?
It is a tragic state of affairs when you and your friend would both be forced into the infantry..
Even with all this suffering, Ukrainians are still doing financially better than 90% of the Russians living in various backwater towns.

That wasn't actually his point. He was being descriptive rather than prescriptive—and honestly, quite accurately so—given that being caught in the crosshairs of a Russian genocidal project is doing massive damage to Ukraine. It’s such a counterintuitive reality that it almost needs constant reiteration just to ensure we don't lose sight of it. Most people would mistakenly assume that Russian shells could somehow lead to prosperity, but fortunately, there are those among us capable of looking a bit deeper.

Perhaps our colleague might grace us with his own expert opinion on what Ukraine *should* be doing while under fire, so we aren't left guessing.

slyfox43 said:That wasn't actually his point. He was being descriptive rather than prescriptive—and honestly, quite accurately so—given that being caught in the crosshairs of a Russian genocidal project is doing massive damage to Ukraine. It’s such a counterintuitive reality that it almost needs constant reiteration just to ensure we don't lose sight of it. Most people would mistakenly assume that Russian shells could somehow lead to prosperity, but fortunately, there are those among us capable of looking a bit deeper.

Perhaps our colleague might grace us with his own expert opinion on what Ukraine *should* be doing while under fire, so we aren't left guessing.

And man, just look at how many people keep repeating that total nonsense—you know, the idea that Zelensky is the bad guy just because he's actually *defending* his country instead of surrendering immediately to become some puppet leader. Might as well mention that ridiculousness too.

Real legitimacy is proven when someone flees to Russia. Since Zelensky didn't do that, he's basically just a puppet for the West.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/06/25/7354635/

Social media platforms are disrupting strategic planning.