Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Kevin Murphy7 said:Kadyrov refused to send any more Muslim meat into the fight for Christianity🍿

Not quite. He actually claimed the volunteer response has been so overwhelming that there's absolutely no need for forced mobilization.
Even those guys who were technically drafted—you know, the ones whose mothers had to march out in anti-war protests just to get them home—well, according to Ramzan, they basically count as "volunteers" too.🙄

jadetinker85 said:The Ukrainians don't need them, and Germany is offering political asylum anyway, as is Ukraine. They should just be rerouted to Germany.

https://www.aa.com.tr/ba/svijet/njem...zacije/2692699

Yeah, I saw that too. It’s probably a win-win for both sides.
The real question is how much money and capability the Russians actually have right now to make a run for Germany.
I don't see how those already on their way to the front lines would even manage to reach Germany, and honestly, many who haven't been caught yet probably lack the resources for a trip like that anyway.

For anyone to actually "redirect them to Germany," there would need to be some kind of public, organized, and accessible effort for fundraising, reception, and housing.
I highly doubt your average middle-class Russian has the capacity or the means to pull off an undertaking like that.
No matter how you look at it, most of them are just stuck in a terrifying trap.

Carl Lee27 said:Look, I wasn't actually asking who the Ukrainians bought the most gear from—it seems like you're just pointing back to the article you linked to answer that. What I was getting at is who has actually "invested" the most in them individually, if we're using your terminology here. I am talking strictly about arms sales, not donations or anything like training. In fact, even that very article mentions how, in the currently tense situation, the French government has however refrained from large announcements of new weapon deliveries

In the currently tense situation, the French government has however refrained from large announcements of new weapon deliveries.

From what I can dig up, the Americans have been by far the single largest investors in the Ukrainian military from 2014 right up until the full-scale invasion in February, totaling somewhere around $2.7 or $2.8 billion. And a huge chunk of that went toward training.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...litary-aid-us/
European aid, whether coming through the EU or individual nations, has mostly funneled into the civilian sector, even though the total amount ended up being higher than what the USA provided. You also have to factor in the EIB, but those are mostly just loans.

Look, if they sell them $1.6 billion in weapons and then turn around and donate $1.6 billion to the "civilian sector," did those Ukrainians actually pay for the guns or not? Just look at the bigger picture.

analogbear70 said:I’ll say it again: if things had been handled more intelligently, this could have been avoided. That doesn't excuse the aggressor—Russia—but rather highlights the failure. The reality is that no one from the UN onwards (aside from the Chinese) is calling for a ceasefire, negotiations, or peace. It’s just weapons, weapons, weapons. Why wasn't equipment being sent to us? Why were we forced to wander the globe like beggars, pleading for help while being treated like an afterthought, all while Zelenskyy calls out the very leaders he needs? Why were we hit with embargos while everyone else looked the other way? We offered up a quarter of our territory before Operation Storm, which I believe ended up in court later. Even then, there was intense domestic opposition, and Feral was constantly critical, while the World media published nothing but half-truths about the downsides of our newly formed nation. None of that exists now. And yet, the Russians remain the aggressors; occupied lands deserve better.

He was basically cornered and pleaded for months, even during those first few weeks, to stop fighting or at least de-escalate.

He even lied to Macron just two days before the invasion started, claiming nothing was going to happen.

The USA was also calling for everything to be settled at the negotiating table. Zelenskyy was actually down for it—he even showed good faith by ordering the demining of the paths leading from Crimea toward the heart of the country. Now, we're seeing how that move totally backfired on him.

The massive airlift of weapons only really kicked into high gear once it became obvious that no amount of talking was going to talk sense into the madman.

So, what's your big solution here? How do we avoid war without basically carving Ukraine into pieces?

I honestly don't get them... they aren't afraid of hitting the streets to face down the regime, but they're terrified of fertilizing Ukrainian fields. I guess being dead is better than rotting in a Russian prison...
Of course, there are plenty of people who back Putin and support this whole mess, but if you can't even get 0.5% of the population out on the street to say "stop this madness," then what's the point?

View on twitter
It’s going to be quite the spectacle at those training camps, especially once people like this get their hands on actual firearms. I honestly can't tell who they'll aim at first.
Most of them aren't even ethnically Russ anyway.
View on twitter

Jessica Peterson2 said:Not quite. He actually claimed the volunteer response has been so overwhelming that there's absolutely no need for forced mobilization.
Even those guys who were technically drafted—you know, the ones whose mothers had to march out in anti-war protests just to get them home—well, according to Ramzan, they basically count as "volunteers" too.🙄

But man, what an absolute circus... you've got this hardened CIA type swearing oaths and preaching religious devotion, while some die-hard Islamist is standing right there holding the ladder for him...🤣😵

Sean Reed3 said:I honestly don't get them... they aren't afraid of hitting the streets to face down the regime, but they're terrified of fertilizing Ukrainian fields. I guess being dead is better than rotting in a Russian prison...
Of course, there are plenty of people who back Putin and support this whole mess, but if you can't even get 0.5% of the population out on the street to say "stop this madness," then what's the point?

It just goes to show—you get the government you deserve.

crimsonwolf26 said:View on twitter
It’s going to be quite the spectacle at those training camps, especially once people like this get their hands on actual firearms. I honestly can't tell who they'll aim at first.
Most of them aren't even ethnically Russ anyway.
View on twitter

This is just sad...👎Half of them look totally lost, and the rest act like a bunch of loose cannons.

https://twitter.com/coolservativ/sta...26258887512065

Whenever someone tries to tell you how all of Europe is standing behind Ukraine, just laugh it off and keep moving.

It’s really just the USA, the UK, and Poland. That’s the core trio, with a few smaller Eastern European countries chipping in to help.

Watching these mobilizations really brings back memories of what was happening in the States back in the fall of 1991... military police would just intercept workers as they left the factory gates or catch young people hanging out at local diners, though some managed to slip away and stay overnight at a friend's place or a colleague's house to avoid it all.

crimsonwolf26 said:View on twitter
It’s going to be quite the spectacle at those training camps, especially once people like this get their hands on actual firearms. I honestly can't tell who they'll aim at first.
Most of them aren't even ethnically Russ anyway.
View on twitter

Pathetic...

Whatever, man. It's a fascist state and a fascist regime using straight-up fascist tactics...

So I honestly don't get why people are making such a big deal when we call out the losers on this forum who side with Russia by their real name—fascist trash... or at least the people sympathizing with them.

“'Tanks are absolutely on the table along with other areas,' the official said....'the tanks that are available that could be provided very quickly with little to no training are Soviet-type tanks, but we’re certainly open to other options"

View on twitter

So, the US says Abrams and all those other Western tanks are officially being considered right now.
Honestly, I feel like we already know how these public "discussions" about specific military hardware usually end up playing out...

Timothy Nelson5 said:It’s not an entirely terrible proposal, I suppose, but....

The catch is that Russia would first have to face a total military collapse during new Ukrainian offensives—enough to liberate almost everything except for Crimea and a small slice of the Donbas near the Russian border.

Only then, maybe, would Russia even consider something like this.

Why on earth would Ukraine agree to potentially lose territory after winning through military force?

We are talking about a phase where only agreements similar to the Erdut deal would be on the table...

Zelenskyy is doing good work. He spoke about Mariupol; we need living heroes, not martyrs. And honestly, they're actually liberated.

hollowdriver13 said:“'Tanks are absolutely on the table along with other areas,' the official said....'the tanks that are available that could be provided very quickly with little to no training are Soviet-type tanks, but we’re certainly open to other options"

View on twitter

So, the US says Abrams and all those other Western tanks are officially being considered right now.
Honestly, I feel like we already know how these public "discussions" about specific military hardware usually end up playing out...

Public discussions happen once a possibility becomes a done deal or implementation has already started.

A new set of threats is coming soon.

wiredfalcon2 said:If Macron was actually handing over parts of Ukraine, how do you explain that Macron's France was the single biggest contributor in terms of cash and training for the Ukrainian military between 2014 (after the Crimea annexation) and the start of the full-scale war? Without that training and those resources, the Ukrainian military would have folded in three days. Also, how do you explain why Ukraine is so desperate to join this same EU, when its leading members are basically looking to let Russia take 20% of Ukrainian territory?

See, that's the thing—Index is a textbook Euroskeptic outlet (though mostly they just chase clicks). Just look at any of the columns by Vojković or the takes from Babić talking about how sluggish the EU is, the fossilized bureaucracy, how irrelevant European institutions have become (those MEPs who just sit around doing nothing while we pay for them), or stories about how Putin laughed at the EU and how failed the sanctions were. Index only likes the EU when they're busy arresting local politicians that the site is aligned with (like the GOP), or when they need to make the US look bad by saying "we're the worst in the EU," or mocking domestic conservatives because they don't fit the EU mold.

Like, have you ever actually seen an analysis on Index about which statistical data points the Russian Federation stopped releasing once the sanctions really started biting?
The RF stopped showing data on:
- foreign trade balances
- financial reports for major corporations
- capital inflows and outflows
- imports and exports of gas and petroleum products
- central bank data
- air transport data for goods and passengers
- credit exposure and loan data
and so on...

Never. Just like you've never seen reporting on Index regarding European policies, various infrastructure projects, or anything similar. That doesn't get clicks. Instead, you get some "analysis" of French elections written by a 22-year-old student who clearly hasn't a clue about the French political scene and has probably never even set foot in France.

Just because Index is against the "right wing" doesn't mean they aren't pumping out total bullshit regarding what's happening in the EU—which is exactly what matters here, specifically what's going on with the sanctions.

Just because someone criticizes the EU doesn't mean they want it to collapse or that they wish it ill.

You're getting worked up and projecting your own views onto me. I haven't been tracking every single thing that specific outlet has covered or ignored.

But I do know that the RF stopped publishing data, and despite that, everything in the RF still suffers from that classic Potemkin village syndrome...

Rachel Richardson said:Why on earth would Ukraine agree to potentially lose territory after winning through military force?

We are talking about a phase where only agreements similar to the Erdut deal would be on the table...

I remember it like it was yesterday—after Operation Storm, they went after Harmon during a press conference. They were asking why we weren't negotiating over the Danube region, why we weren't pushing further militarily...
And Harmon just looked at them and said—I was just at the hospital visiting the wounded today, and there was one man who lost both his eyes and both his arms...

Not long ago, there was that footage of Zelenskyy in a hospital handing out medals to the wounded... I think one soldier had lost both arms...

How many more of them—the dead, the survivors, the traumatized—does it take before we finally reach some kind of conclusion?

I'm certainly not suggesting the war should just end, because then you're essentially handing a victory to a fascist aggressor... but I suppose we have to realize that eventually, people will need to sit down at a table and sign a truce, or some kind of acceptable peace treaty.

And honestly, I'm not even sure if the people in those regions, given the option of a fair, internationally supervised referendum, would actually choose to be part of Russia—that economically and morally broken despotism...

The situation remains incredibly complex—perhaps more so than most people are willing to admit... It’s easy to get swept up in the immediate headlines, but if you step back and look at the broader geopolitical landscape, the layers of nuance start to pile up. We see these patterns repeating themselves, almost like a slow-motion replay of history that nobody actually asked for... It makes you wonder how much of this was truly unforeseen and how much was simply inevitable given the players involved. One can't help but feel a certain level of exhaustion just trying to parse through the conflicting narratives being pushed by various media outlets... It’s all very heavy, and frankly, quite draining...

Joshua Myers432 said:Honestly, the Russian army was just overrated. They were basically living off the fumes of Soviet glory from 1945. If you ask me, even the quality of that Cold War-era Soviet military is highly questionable now.

You can't just gear up and train an entire military overnight. What kind of army gets dismantled by a few HIMARS units deployed by a semi-trained Ukrainian force?! They couldn't even establish air superiority over Ukrainian skies—not like they were gifted any F-35s. It’s a paper tiger. Calling them the second-best army in the world is a joke, just like calling the American People's Army the fourth strongest force in Europe. Give me a break.

HIMARS aren't some magic bullet for victory... they really aren't. The real key lies in how you integrate various capabilities into one cohesive, coordinated machine—where every single component, including those HIMARS units, has its specific role, its precise timing, and its exact method of deployment...
On the other hand, you’re making the same kind of argument that Baric makes—that the Ukrainians need some arbitrary six to nine months to get their act together for everything. But let’s be realistic here... the Ukrainians have been bracing for this specific aggression since 2015. They haven't just been sitting around; they’ve been systematically training and drilling their military year after year. We're talking about tens of thousands of new recruits being integrated into the force every single year. This isn't some half-baked, amateur militia... if it were, they wouldn't be capable of pulling off these kinds of precision strikes, nor would they be able to seize the initiative like they have...

Rachel Richardson said:Why on earth would Ukraine agree to potentially lose territory after winning through military force?

We are talking about a phase where only agreements similar to the Erdut deal would be on the table...

👍

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Timothy Nelson5 said:I remember it like it was yesterday—after Operation Storm, they went after Harmon during a press conference. They were asking why we weren't negotiating over the Danube region, why we weren't pushing further militarily...
And Harmon just looked at them and said—I was just at the hospital visiting the wounded today, and there was one man who lost both his eyes and both his arms...

Not long ago, there was that footage of Zelenskyy in a hospital handing out medals to the wounded... I think one soldier had lost both arms...

How many more of them—the dead, the survivors, the traumatized—does it take before we finally reach some kind of conclusion?

I'm certainly not suggesting the war should just end, because then you're essentially handing a victory to a fascist aggressor... but I suppose we have to realize that eventually, people will need to sit down at a table and sign a truce, or some kind of acceptable peace treaty.

And honestly, I'm not even sure if the people in those regions, given the option of a fair, internationally supervised referendum, would actually choose to be part of Russia—that economically and morally broken despotism...

If you want to walk into a negotiation room with actual leverage—to be the one setting the terms rather than just reacting to them—you need undeniable victories on the ground and a much clearer path forward than your opponent... and right now, Ukraine is only just getting started. They have roughly fifteen days to reclaim more territory before we see that inevitable escalation everyone is bracing for...

Brenda Murphy3 said:But man, what an absolute circus... you've got this hardened CIA type swearing oaths and preaching religious devotion, while some die-hard Islamist is standing right there holding the ladder for him...🤣😵

According to religious doctrine, Muslims and Christians believe in the same God, they just differ on the "details."
Basically, if neither side were succumbing to evil or serving the devil and his sin of pride, there wouldn't be this hatred or intolerance between them.

Especially if Russians, Ukrainians, and Muslims all actually served the TRUE God, there would be no wars or killing, because anyone who sins commits lawlessness; that sin is lawlessness. Anyone committing sin follows the devil
because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

Anyone born of God does not sin
because His seed remains in them;
they cannot sin because they are born of God.
This is how the children of God
and the children of the devil are recognized:
whoever does not act with justice
and does not love their brother,
is not of God.