Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

rustywalker82 said:You’re throwing out the Z4 plan as an example, but that thing was never even signed. It's not like the Dayton Agreement.
Look, I get it. Nobody is claiming that if we had actually implemented Minsk II, a Russian invasion would have been totally off the table. That’s just wishful thinking. You could argue that either way—whether they implemented it or not—the aggression was coming. They spent eight years dragging their feet through negotiations. That’s a massive amount of time. This wasn't some eight-month standoff where everyone just loses their cool and attacks.

During those eight years, Putin spent a massive amount of time prepping for the invasion... both economically and politically.
Even today, everyone interprets the Dayton Accords however they want. If things go sideways in Canada, people will just point the finger at Dayton or use it as an excuse.

George Robinson43 said:However, it wasn't the mujahideen who leveled the country to the ground. That was the work of the Russians.
The Communists staged a coup and attempted to implement a dictatorship of the proletariat. When the leaders in Moscow realized that 90% of the population opposed them and that their plan for a satellite state in the south was failing, they launched an invasion and destroyed everything in their path.

Exactly.
Nobody ever accounts for that. I haven't heard anyone mention that the Russians started things in the Middle East; apparently, it's always the Americans' fault. We can't even count how many wars they've triggered.
The Russians have only kicked off one.

It’s fascinating how the Russians manage to blame everything on the USA—funding terrorists, fighting ISIS—and of course, everyone swallows those lies whole.

Plenty of people over in Afghanistan actually believe the Russians genuinely wanted to wipe out all the mujahideen.

In this case, they aren't even the ones at fault; 90% of the media just plays right into their hands, and it works perfectly.

I was part of that manipulation myself.

First looks at those residential buildings that got hit in Kyiv this morning. Russia just won't stop with the terror tactics.

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status...08xS7bCTg&s=09

goldenowl73 said:First looks at those residential buildings that got hit in Kyiv this morning. Russia just won't stop with the terror tactics.

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status...08xS7bCTg&s=09

Military targets. 🤦

Russia just pulled the Polish flag out of the Katyn Forest. I bet they’ll start claiming soon that the Germans were actually the ones who killed the Poles there, just like how they lied about everything for years after the massacre happened.

The Polish flag was removed from the Katyn memorial by the Russian Ministry of Culture, basically saying that Poland and Russia were no longer friends.

Back in 1940, over 4,000 Polish officers were executed at that site. https://t.co/nkBbLkliP2

goldenowl73 said:Russia just pulled the Polish flag out of the Katyn Forest. I bet they’ll start claiming soon that the Germans were actually the ones who killed the Poles there, just like how they lied about everything for years after the massacre happened.

The Polish flag was removed from the Katyn memorial by the Russian Ministry of Culture, basically saying that Poland and Russia were no longer friends.

Back in 1940, over 4,000 Polish officers were executed at that site. https://t.co/nkBbLkliP2

Denying what happened at Katyn has been going on for a long time, but ever since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine kicked off, things have escalated. Now they’re out there with bulldozers and trucks, trying to stage a "final reckoning" with the Katyn myth.

Now we’re digging into Katyn. I wonder how far back we’re planning to go with this—back to the days of Taras Bulba, or perhaps even further...

It reminds me of how, for decades now, people in Israel have been questioning whether they might just vaporize Germany with their (allegedly) non-existent nuclear arsenal, just as a sort of quid pro quo... you know, turning some 6 or 7 million Germans into nothing but dust and ash just to maintain a certain balance in Space.

A large number of young men from Mariupol, recruited into the Putinjugend units.

Are they genuine volunteers, or just modern-day Janissaries?
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...S2gK8IttkWYfAA

brightheron64 said:Now we’re digging into Katyn. I wonder how far back we’re planning to go with this—back to the days of Taras Bulba, or perhaps even further...

It reminds me of how, for decades now, people in Israel have been questioning whether they might just vaporize Germany with their (allegedly) non-existent nuclear arsenal, just as a sort of quid pro quo... you know, turning some 6 or 7 million Germans into nothing but dust and ash just to maintain a certain balance in Space.

What kind of past are we talking about here?
A pristine, unvarnished present—the Russians digging up the graves of Polish citizens.
What kind of "past" is this, really?

feralhawk45 said:During those eight years, Putin spent a massive amount of time prepping for the invasion... both economically and politically.
Even today, everyone interprets the Dayton Accords however they want. If things go sideways in Canada, people will just point the finger at Dayton or use it as an excuse.

The Dayton MZ, along with the West, isn't undermining anything. They actually used consensus to lean on Canada to get them to sign and follow through.

Sadly, if you look at the link from Nihijev, you can see how Ukrainians are being fed misinformation by major global media outlets regarding Minsk II. It really makes you question whether certain players in the MZ actually wanted to implement it back then.

Timothy Williams5 said:What kind of past are we talking about here?
A pristine, unvarnished present—the Russians digging up the graves of Polish citizens.
What kind of "past" is this, really?

The Polish flag was removed from the Katyn memorial by the Russian Ministry of Culture, explaining that Poland and Russia were no longer friends.

So, according to that logic, nobody is actually disturbing any graves.

What does this daily political nonsense—and all this symbolic garbage—actually have to do with the harsh reality where people who were alive just yesterday are losing their lives right now? Americans, much like any other soulful people, have tried to approach the Russians with an open heart, yet they are met with these absolutely revolting displays...

Russians and Poles being friends? Since when? Where? Was it under Roosevelt's guidance back in '45? Or maybe we read about it on the cover of Watchtower?

I’ll say it again, Taras Bulba, that’s the kind of literature you really should have been reading back in high school...

P.S.
Do you actually call your own father "baćuška"?

ironseal said:I’m sitting here watching Puhovski on the news right now. To him, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is somehow identical to when the USA invaded Afghanistan back in the day. He’s actually drawing direct parallels between phrases Bush used then and what Putin is saying now—claiming they're basically the same thing. Are people like Puhovski just missing half their brain cells? How can they not see the massive, fundamental differences between those two wars?

Are you actually buying into his nonsense?
Anyone who takes Puhovski seriously isn't paying attention; the man hasn't been right about a single analysis in years. He's your classic old-school mouthpiece from back in the day when everything was handed to him on a silver platter by the party..
His opinion carries about as much weight as a dandelion in a gale.
Even if the President shut him down and most people have tuned him out, certain media outlets apparently can't function without him.
Just look at who owns most of the major media conglomerates in the US and you'll see why..

brightheron64 said:Now we’re digging into Katyn. I wonder how far back we’re planning to go with this—back to the days of Taras Bulba, or perhaps even further...

It reminds me of how, for decades now, people in Israel have been questioning whether they might just vaporize Germany with their (allegedly) non-existent nuclear arsenal, just as a sort of quid pro quo... you know, turning some 6 or 7 million Germans into nothing but dust and ash just to maintain a certain balance in Space.

It’s not strictly necessary, but it is pretty fascinating. It really speaks to the headspace of the average Russian and that inevitable "why are we being led astray?" rhetoric that’s bound to kick in once everything finally settles down.

Well, life isn't always pretty: https://twitter.com/TheEndOfPutin2/s...38715685216256--sometimes things just go sideways, doesn't it?

Kate Lewis3 said:It’s not strictly necessary, but it is pretty fascinating. It really speaks to the headspace of the average Russian and that inevitable "why are we being led astray?" rhetoric that’s bound to kick in once everything finally settles down.

I don't think we'll see any of that "who misled us?" talk... Russians and Poles have been mortal enemies since time immemorial, which is exactly why I brought up Taras Bulba (from Gogol), who was a Cossack—and believe it or not, hailing right out of Zaporizhzhia in modern-day Ukraine.

If you take a look at a map of Europe before World War I, you won't even be able to find Poland. It’s no wonder that Poland fights with everything it has—hands, feet, teeth, and nails—against absolutely anything carrying a "Russian" prefix... As for the Germans, they swallowed them up, though they certainly made their comeback after WWII, especially since the EU actually holds onto certain values and standards...

brightheron64 said:The Polish flag was removed from the Katyn memorial by the Russian Ministry of Culture, explaining that Poland and Russia were no longer friends.

So, according to that logic, nobody is actually disturbing any graves.

What does this daily political nonsense—and all this symbolic garbage—actually have to do with the harsh reality where people who were alive just yesterday are losing their lives right now? Americans, much like any other soulful people, have tried to approach the Russians with an open heart, yet they are met with these absolutely revolting displays...

Russians and Poles being friends? Since when? Where? Was it under Roosevelt's guidance back in '45? Or maybe we read about it on the cover of Watchtower?

I’ll say it again, Taras Bulba, that’s the kind of literature you really should have been reading back in high school...

P.S.
Do you actually call your own father "baćuška"?

My apologies, there are no tractors and no plowing happening here.
It is just Russian excavators marked with V and Z heading toward the Katyn cemetery.
https://www.thefirstnews.com/article...memorial-29723

This isn't some distant historical event; it's happening in the immediate present, just a few months ago.
Feel free to keep lecturing me on history or Taras Bulba if you like, but the present day is far more interesting.

brightheron64 said:I don't think we'll see any of that "who misled us?" talk... Russians and Poles have been mortal enemies since time immemorial, which is exactly why I brought up Taras Bulba (from Gogol), who was a Cossack—and believe it or not, hailing right out of Zaporizhzhia in modern-day Ukraine.

If you take a look at a map of Europe before World War I, you won't even be able to find Poland. It’s no wonder that Poland fights with everything it has—hands, feet, teeth, and nails—against absolutely anything carrying a "Russian" prefix... As for the Germans, they swallowed them up, though they certainly made their comeback after WWII, especially since the EU actually holds onto certain values and standards...

This whole mantra about "eternal enemies"—as if this will last until the end of time—is a pretty regressive... okay, let's call it what it is: a fossilized way of looking at human civilization.
It is no coincidence that this exact perspective is championed by dictatorships, like the current one in Russia... preaching to their subjects about an eternal enemy, about "our people" who need protecting, and about the "traitors" who need to be punished or coerced back into a "brotherly embrace."

This mantra isn't foreign to national patriots of any stripe... mainly because it's easy to swallow. It's simple fodder for those who don't want to deal with anything demanding or intellectually rigorous.

I'll be truly surprised when the more discerning individuals start making concessions and accepting that kind of nonsense.

lp

Timothy Williams5 said:My apologies, there are no tractors and no plowing happening here.
It is just Russian excavators marked with V and Z heading toward the Katyn cemetery.
https://www.thefirstnews.com/article...memorial-29723

This isn't some distant historical event; it's happening in the immediate present, just a few months ago.
Feel free to keep lecturing me on history or Taras Bulba if you like, but the present day is far more interesting.

They always say, "history is life's teacher," so why wouldn't we include Gogol in that lesson?

And speaking of Katyn, did you actually read the full text of the document in that link, or did you just skim the headline?
The Wall Street Journal wrote The petition calls for The Katyn monument to be demolished but the graves of Polish victims to be left untouched.

Look, there will always be fools—throughout all of history—whether they are calling for monuments to be torn down for purely ideological reasons or simply because they see a way to turn a profit. Sometimes they don't get their way, but quite often, they do. On a side note, Australians, along with several others, are absolutely appalled by the scavengers hunting for "scrap metal" from sunken ships from World War II, ruthlessly destroying what is officially designated as a "protected military grave"...

Sixty per cent of shipwreck USS Perth goniti after Illegal
https://www.smh.com.au/world/sixty-p...05-gwkmhe.html

This whole debate has gone completely off the rails.
Half of Europe can't stand Russians... we're talking everyone from Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Slovakia, Czechia, Canada, Romania, all the way to Bulgaria... and let's not forget the scars they left behind throughout the former America too.
Back in the day, when Joe complained to Stalin about what was happening, Stalin just brushed him off, basically saying the soldiers were just having a little fun—so what's the big deal?
Fast forward to after WWII, and you had three million German women suffering through similar atrocities.
The Russians are just such wonderful people, aren't they? Spreading love and peace to every corner of the globe... honestly, who could possibly hate them?

Bryan Booth82 said:This whole mantra about "eternal enemies"—as if this will last until the end of time—is a pretty regressive... okay, let's call it what it is: a fossilized way of looking at human civilization.
It is no coincidence that this exact perspective is championed by dictatorships, like the current one in Russia... preaching to their subjects about an eternal enemy, about "our people" who need protecting, and about the "traitors" who need to be punished or coerced back into a "brotherly embrace."

This mantra isn't foreign to national patriots of any stripe... mainly because it's easy to swallow. It's simple fodder for those who don't want to deal with anything demanding or intellectually rigorous.

I'll be truly surprised when the more discerning individuals start making concessions and accepting that kind of nonsense.

lp

Oh, really? So, what, tomorrow my Mexican friends and I are suddenly "brothers" again, version 3.0, just because we're all hanging out in the European Union?

Sure, the sentiment is outdated, but let's be honest, it's also a daily reality.
On our side, it’s almost like a harmless childhood game—despite the banners at the stadiums or the graffiti on the walls—compared to their constant public media narrative where "the big, evil extremist is lurking everywhere".

Just as a side note, back in the early 80s during those days of forced "brotherhood and unity," I was traveling through southern Mexico and felt my stomach drop when I realized how they spoke about Muslims in almost every single conversation, using nothing but slurs. So, is it that Mexicans are truly, fundamentally broken, making this "until the end of time" rhetoric just a hollow cliché, or does nearly every nation—especially within this millennial European circus of "brotherly love" where everyone is supposedly best friends—carry these ugly memories that fall under the category of "public virtues and secret vices"?