Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

wiredseal7 said:The absolute best reason why we should let Ukraine into the EU🤣

gentlerider7 said:The whole thing about Ukraine becoming a candidate is basically just symbolic, isn't it? I mean, look at Turkey—they've been sitting in candidate limbo since way back in 1987. It doesn't really change the day-to-day reality, but it serves as one hell of a message to Putin.

President Zelensky: Ukraine introduces visa regime with Russian Federation starting 1st July

link

Carol Johnson21 said:Let’s cut to the chase: do you actually have anything to back up this "tape horror story" regarding Russian rhetoric?
Do you have a list of the banned parties along with their justifications (or was it just because they weren't liked), and who exactly banned them? Was it just Zelenskyy?
When were they banned? And were they questioning the war against Russia at that time?
What is the metric used to decide which "pro-Russians" aren't Nazis?
The ones who call a war against an aggressor "someone else's war" are the ones who deserve a kick in the pants—or better yet, a spot on the front lines.
Coming from a Putin supporter like you, this outrage over tape and civil liberties is frankly laughable.
You're headed for the ignore list.

A list of banned parties with actual justifications (or was it just because they were inconvenient)? And who pulled the trigger on those bans? Was it just Zelenskyy?
When did this happen? Were they questioning the "Russian side" of the war back then?

What's the metric used to decide which pro-Russians aren't Nazis?

People like that, who call a war against an aggressor "someone else's war," should be kicked out or better yet, sent straight to the front lines.

And coming from a Putinovac like you, whining about duct tape and civil liberties is just laughable.
Going to ignore you now.

wiredseal7 said:Lost in the endless void of Telegram and Twitter posts, but there were plenty of examples.
Anyone paying even a modicum of attention to the war would have stumbled onto it.

A list of banned parties with actual justifications (or was it just because they were inconvenient)? And who pulled the trigger on those bans? Was it just Zelenskyy?
When did this happen? Were they questioning the "Russian side" of the war back then?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inks-to-russia

What's the metric used to decide which pro-Russians aren't Nazis?

You could call pro-Russians nostalgic communists, sure, but they don't really share much common ground with Nazis.

People like that, who call a war against an aggressor "someone else's war," should be kicked out or better yet, sent straight to the front lines.

People like you would make great dictators—not quite the worst kind, but you'd definitely ship anyone without a single unified opinion straight to the trenches.

And coming from a Putinovac like you, whining about duct tape and civil liberties is just laughable.
Going to ignore you now.

Naturally, the immediate conclusion is that I'm a Putinovac just because I don't want a banana republic—which is what Ukraine looks like right now—joining the European Union.
If we got played back in the day with things like the Panama Papers or various legal arbitrations, maybe Ukraine can have some minimal standards of its own.

At the end of the day, it's probably best if we all just ignore each other and shut this little debate down.

wiredseal7 said:Lost in the endless void of Telegram and Twitter posts, but there were plenty of examples.
Anyone paying even a modicum of attention to the war would have stumbled onto it.

A list of banned parties with actual justifications (or was it just because they were inconvenient)? And who pulled the trigger on those bans? Was it just Zelenskyy?
When did this happen? Were they questioning the "Russian side" of the war back then?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inks-to-russia

What's the metric used to decide which pro-Russians aren't Nazis?

You could call pro-Russians nostalgic communists, sure, but they don't really share much common ground with Nazis.

People like that, who call a war against an aggressor "someone else's war," should be kicked out or better yet, sent straight to the front lines.

People like you would make great dictators—not quite the worst kind, but you'd definitely ship anyone without a single unified opinion straight to the trenches.

And coming from a Putinovac like you, whining about duct tape and civil liberties is just laughable.
Going to ignore you now.

Naturally, the immediate conclusion is that I'm a Putinovac just because I don't want a banana republic—which is what Ukraine looks like right now—joining the European Union.
If we got played back in the day with things like the Panama Papers or various legal arbitrations, maybe Ukraine can have some minimal standards of its own.

At the end of the day, it's probably best if we all just ignore each other and shut this little debate down.

George Robinson43 said:Not quite. You're labeled a Putin sympathizer because you've been peddling Russian propaganda on this forum for years. If you really want proof, I can quote you directly so you can see it for yourself!

wiredseal7 said:So—for the millionth time—it’s being implied that I’m some paid mouthpiece for Putin.🤦

Just imagine the level of hysteria in Ukraine right now—or even in the rest of the European Union—if this is how people act in America, where the mainstream media basically runs a 24/7 crying session.

Nicholas Watson said:You guys are talking like Ukraine is going to slide into the European Union tomorrow afternoon right between two Russian missile strikes

Seriously though, how much time do you think they’ll actually need just to align their laws on foreign trade or deal with the legalities surrounding gay marriage bans?

Bryan Booth82 said:So, just thinking out loud here—where did that whole crowd go? You know, the group of people who spent years relentlessly pushing pro-Russian propaganda, acting like they were doing some sort of service, only to suddenly vanish without a trace now that things have shifted. I have to wonder: did the payouts finally dry up, or did they just get an order to lay low and switch to some kind of underground guerrilla tactic?
Just asking out of pure curiosity, really.
Best,

George Robinson43 said:It looks like the paid bots disappeared right when JPMorgan Chase went dark, leaving behind only the free ones who actually believe what they're typing.

gentlerider7 said:Just unpaid staffers at this point.

George Robinson43 said:It looks like the paid bots disappeared right when JPMorgan Chase went dark, leaving behind only the free ones who actually believe what they're typing.

Kate Cook27 said:Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but here’s an illustration for context.
We're looking at roughly 1.5 million people displaced within Ukraine, plus about 250,000 to 300,000 who fled into Russia. A lot of people assume anyone speaking Russian is automatically pro-Russian—it's just not accurate. There are plenty of Ukrainians who speak Russian, but that doesn't mean they're rushing to embrace Russia.
How many people have suffered under occupation? It's significant—many activists and journalists have been killed or detained simply because they refused to parrot Russian propaganda. They actually tried to report the truth, rather than just following a script like Patrick Lancaster.
As for separatists? Maybe around a third. When the conflicts first broke out, a lot of people actually organized pro-Ukrainian militias to fight against the separatists, which turned things into a literal brother-against-brother situation. You had the separatists and Russian soldiers on one side, facing off against the Ukrainian military and locals from Donbas who were standing up to them.
The language issue has been a debate since 1991—still hasn't been fully settled (personally, I think having both Ukrainian and Russian as official languages would work). About 60% speak Ukrainian. While areas like Donbas, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, and Odesa are Russian-speaking, that doesn't mean those people are Russian or pro-Russian—quite the opposite. Identity used to be more fluid, but everything shifted significantly after 2014. In Kyiv, for instance, it's pretty much a 50/50 split in the central parts. Sure, it might look like there are a lot of Russian speakers, but those are really the exceptions.
On the flip side, those opposition media outlets and politicians that wiredseal7 mentioned have claimed that Ukraine doesn't even exist, that the Ukrainian language isn't real, and that anyone speaking it is a spy or a traitor that needs to be "dealt with." They've pushed all sorts of labels onto Ukrainians—Nazis, fascists, nationalists, and all sorts of derogatory slurs—all while claiming they were just occupying Russian land because, according to them, everything belongs to Russia. That’s the question Strelkov wants to solve.