Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Kate Cook27 said:This might be slightly off-topic, but it serves as a good illustration.
We’re looking at roughly 1.5 million people displaced within Ukraine, plus another 250,000 to 300,000 who fled to Russia. People often make the mistake of assuming anyone who speaks Russian is a pro-Russian sympathizer—that just isn't the case. There are plenty of Ukrainians who speak Russian, but that doesn't mean they're rushing into a Russian embrace.
How much suffering has happened in the occupied territories? It’s been heavy. So many activists and journalists have been killed or hauled off to prison—simply because they refused to parrot Russian propaganda and actually tried to report the truth, unlike how Patrick Lancaster does it.
As for separatists? Maybe about a third. Once the fighting kicked off, a lot of people organized pro-Ukrainian militias to fight back against the separatists, which turned it into a literal brother-against-brother conflict. On one side, you had the separatists and Russian soldiers; on the other, the Ukrainian military and the local people of Donbas standing up to them.
The language issue has been an ongoing debate since 1991—it's still not settled (personally, I think both Ukrainian and Russian should be official languages). About 60% speak Ukrainian. You have Russian-speaking areas like Donbas, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, and Odesa, but that doesn't mean those people are Russian or pro-Russian—quite the opposite. Identity was always somewhat fluid, but everything changed after 2014. A lot of folks in Kyiv speak Russian; it’s pretty much a split in the central regions. Sure, there are Russian speakers, but they are the exception to the rule.
On the flip side, those opposition media outlets and politicians that wiredseal7 mentioned were out there claiming Ukraine doesn't even exist and that the Ukrainian language is a myth. They labeled anyone speaking Ukrainian as spies or traitors that needed "dealing with," pushed for bans on the language, and slapped all sorts of labels on Ukrainians—Nazis, fascists, nationalists, Banderites, etc.—claiming they had "occupied" Russian land because, according to them, everything belongs to Russia. That's the question Strelkov wants to settle.

And why did everything flip after 2014? Honestly, everyone was just being played back then while Nuland was leading the charge during the Maidan protests, pushing those hardline nationalist groups into the spotlight, and now the whole country is stuck paying a massive price for it.

bluerider63 said:And why did everything flip after 2014? Honestly, everyone was just being played back then while Nuland was leading the charge during the Maidan protests, pushing those hardline nationalist groups into the spotlight, and now the whole country is stuck paying a massive price for it.

What an absurd take. In 2014, Russia launched its aggression, and naturally, that's when a national identity starts to solidify or strengthen. In moments like that, you have to pick a side.

Besides, at no point in Ukraine's history has there been a right-wing government driven by the kind of extreme, Nazi-style ideology that Putin uses to run things...

bluerider63 said:And why did everything flip after 2014? Honestly, everyone was just being played back then while Nuland was leading the charge during the Maidan protests, pushing those hardline nationalist groups into the spotlight, and now the whole country is stuck paying a massive price for it.

Oh, please. If you start with such a fundamentally flawed premise—claiming that a democratically elected government serving the people of Ukraine was overthrown during the so-called Maidan—while conveniently ignoring the fact that a mere puppet installed by Putin was kicked out, then your entire argument falls apart. How can you even begin to discuss this when you omit the reality that the regime in power was nothing more than a tool for someone who denies that the Ukrainian nation or state even exists?
Lp

gentlerider7 said:He’s just repeating the same tired script as every other Russian troll on this board—all that "the West is collapsing," "sanctions aren't working," and "Europe is going to starve" nonsense. Blah, blah, blah.

When was the last time you actually walked through a grocery store and saw how desperate people look? Like, seeing folks standing there totally paralyzed, debating five times whether they can afford one peach or two... it's heavy.
We'll see if anyone's still talking this way by March 2023.
Imagine trying to live on a $400 pension when your utility bills hit $300... and don't even get me started on how people pay for meds.
Honestly, most of the people posting here seem like total losers who have plenty of cash and zero clue what actual Americans are dealing with on the ground.

rowdycanyon13 said:When was the last time you actually walked through a grocery store and saw how desperate people look? Like, seeing folks standing there totally paralyzed, debating five times whether they can afford one peach or two... it's heavy.
We'll see if anyone's still talking this way by March 2023.
Imagine trying to live on a $400 pension when your utility bills hit $300... and don't even get me started on how people pay for meds.
Honestly, most of the people posting here seem like total losers who have plenty of cash and zero clue what actual Americans are dealing with on the ground.

What exactly did you expect? That everything would just keep running smoothly during a war?

William Anderson5 said:What exactly did you expect? That everything would just keep running smoothly during a war?

Which war are we even talking about?
Back in '91, I was right there in the trenches with a Canadian girl and maybe 150 rounds left in my clip... and let me tell you, none of those big shots in the European Union gave a damn about Americans, especially not the US.
Honestly, why should I give a single crap about the war between Russia and Ukraine?
The only thing I see happening is thousands of Ukrainians rolling down the coast in fancy cars. Meanwhile, people are struggling back in rural Montana.
To afford just one of those cars, an American would have to sell off fifty yards of beachfront property...

electrichawk94 said:Putin would basically be the greatest leader in Russian history if he actually pulled off getting his country into the European Union. 😁

Kick the British and the US out, and let Russia in. 😁

At that point, NATO becomes pretty much pointless. 😁

That is precisely what I have been saying. If Russia were to unite with Europe, the combined force of the entire European Union plus Russia would become a massive counterweight to the Americans, the Britons, and the Chinese. And that is simply unacceptable to those powers.
There is just one major issue regarding the Russians. They lack a visionary leader of that caliber. Instead, they are constantly led by autocrats and dictators, and they consistently choose them.

rowdycanyon13 said:Which war are we even talking about?
Back in '91, I was right there in the trenches with a Canadian girl and maybe 150 rounds left in my clip... and let me tell you, none of those big shots in the European Union gave a damn about Americans, especially not the US.
Honestly, why should I give a single crap about the war between Russia and Ukraine?
The only thing I see happening is thousands of Ukrainians rolling down the coast in fancy cars. Meanwhile, people are struggling back in rural Montana.
To afford just one of those cars, an American would have to sell off fifty yards of beachfront property...

You just happened to register on this forum to tell us all about how you were in a trench and how little you care about Ukraine... what a complete coincidence, right?
Best,

bluerider63 said:And why did everything flip after 2014? Honestly, everyone was just being played back then while Nuland was leading the charge during the Maidan protests, pushing those hardline nationalist groups into the spotlight, and now the whole country is stuck paying a massive price for it.

Well, it started when the Russian brothers began their operations in the borderlands.
It is quite easy for bluerider63 to play dumb.

Gerald Torres84 said:That is precisely what I have been saying. If Russia were to unite with Europe, the combined force of the entire European Union plus Russia would become a massive counterweight to the Americans, the Britons, and the Chinese. And that is simply unacceptable to those powers.
There is just one major issue regarding the Russians. They lack a visionary leader of that caliber. Instead, they are constantly led by autocrats and dictators, and they consistently choose them.

The real problem with Russians is that they have never actually been capable of participating in an alliance or maintaining genuine friendly relations with anyone.
Unfortunately, there is this deeply ingrained need within them to imitate greatness—this desperate desire to be perceived as a superpower, which they believe gives them some divine right to act superior to everyone else.
To some extent, you might even find such a mindset understandable in truly successful nations, but let’s be honest: Russia has never actually been one of those nations.
Best,

rowdycanyon13 said:Which war are we even talking about?
Back in '91, I was right there in the trenches with a Canadian girl and maybe 150 rounds left in my clip... and let me tell you, none of those big shots in the European Union gave a damn about Americans, especially not the US.
Honestly, why should I give a single crap about the war between Russia and Ukraine?
The only thing I see happening is thousands of Ukrainians rolling down the coast in fancy cars. Meanwhile, people are struggling back in rural Montana.
To afford just one of those cars, an American would have to sell off fifty yards of beachfront property...

Look, you can pretend you don't care, but this war is going to hit the economy regardless of whether you feel it or not...

rowdycanyon13 said:When was the last time you actually walked through a grocery store and saw how desperate people look? Like, seeing folks standing there totally paralyzed, debating five times whether they can afford one peach or two... it's heavy.
We'll see if anyone's still talking this way by March 2023.
Imagine trying to live on a $400 pension when your utility bills hit $300... and don't even get me started on how people pay for meds.
Honestly, most of the people posting here seem like total losers who have plenty of cash and zero clue what actual Americans are dealing with on the ground.

And wouldn't none of this nightmare be happening if we weren't all as sharp as the Canadians? I can already guess where some of you are heading with that thought...

Bryan Booth82 said:The real problem with Russians is that they have never actually been capable of participating in an alliance or maintaining genuine friendly relations with anyone.
Unfortunately, there is this deeply ingrained need within them to imitate greatness—this desperate desire to be perceived as a superpower, which they believe gives them some divine right to act superior to everyone else.
To some extent, you might even find such a mindset understandable in truly successful nations, but let’s be honest: Russia has never actually been one of those nations.
Best,

Unfortunately, you hit the nail on the head... They are desperate to reclaim that sense of global importance, but it simply isn't working given the system they've been running for the last century.

rowdycanyon13 said:Which war are we even talking about?
Back in '91, I was right there in the trenches with a Canadian girl and maybe 150 rounds left in my clip... and let me tell you, none of those big shots in the European Union gave a damn about Americans, especially not the US.
Honestly, why should I give a single crap about the war between Russia and Ukraine?
The only thing I see happening is thousands of Ukrainians rolling down the coast in fancy cars. Meanwhile, people are struggling back in rural Montana.
To afford just one of those cars, an American would have to sell off fifty yards of beachfront property...

You'd actually have something to worry about if Russia won. If they did, it might give the Mexicans enough confidence to act again, and the whole point of everything is to make sure tragedies like Ovčara and Srebrenica never happen ever again.

Bryan Booth82 said:You just happened to register on this forum to tell us all about how you were in a trench and how little you care about Ukraine... what a complete coincidence, right?
Best,

In that case, don't even bother replying.
Go grab a shovel or something instead of hanging out on this forum all day...

Gerald Torres84 said:Unfortunately, you hit the nail on the head... They are desperate to reclaim that sense of global importance, but it simply isn't working given the system they've been running for the last century.

They really walk around thinking they're some kind of superpower, don't they? Like, if the USA is sitting at number one, these guys love to pretend they're a close second.

Christian Barnes said:You'd actually have something to worry about if Russia won. If they did, it might give the Mexicans enough confidence to act again, and the whole point of everything is to make sure tragedies like Ovčara and Srebrenica never happen ever again.

Look, the Mexicans who are just trying to scrape by are working along the Gulf Coast, or you've got a place like Mexico that doesn't even have enough people to field an army.
The real danger? It's tens of thousands of Americans leaving their thousand-year-old homeland.
At this rate, the US will be down to 3 million people by 2031, and if this policy keeps up, we might just vanish entirely by 2050...

rowdycanyon13 said:Look, the Mexicans who are just trying to scrape by are working along the Gulf Coast, or you've got a place like Mexico that doesn't even have enough people to field an army.
The real danger? It's tens of thousands of Americans leaving their thousand-year-old homeland.
At this rate, the US will be down to 3 million people by 2031, and if this policy keeps up, we might just vanish entirely by 2050...

I mean, what about Prince Lazar's army, or those White Eagles? Besides, Šešelj is still kicking, isn't he? He could probably rally 20,000 Mexicans to sign up as volunteers. Maybe not for an invasion of the US, but for an attack on Mexico? You bet.

rowdycanyon13 said:In that case, don't even bother replying.
Go grab a shovel or something instead of hanging out on this forum all day...

Now hold on a second—hard manual labor isn't exactly what it used to be, and honestly, who has the time for it anymore?
Look, no hard feelings here, I was just pointing out that you're a brand-new member; I didn't just pull that out of thin air...
Best regards,

rowdycanyon13 said:Look, the Mexicans who are just trying to scrape by are working along the Gulf Coast, or you've got a place like Mexico that doesn't even have enough people to field an army.
The real danger? It's tens of thousands of Americans leaving their thousand-year-old homeland.
At this rate, the US will be down to 3 million people by 2031, and if this policy keeps up, we might just vanish entirely by 2050...

Look, it’s not like Russian soldiers are some kind of saints when they’re out there looting TVs and toilet seats. Honestly, seeing people loot those living much better than them would probably be enough motivation for anyone in the neighborhood to head off to the front lines too.