Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

hollowdriver13 said:Man, you've really spit out a lot of nonsense here.🙏🙏

Can you pro-Russian folks please just make up your minds? Does reducing sales to the EU actually hurt Russia or not? People claim China and India will just soak it all up anyway, so what's the big deal with Russia just turning off the tap themselves?
And then there's Nord Stream—a few posts ago you were saying they could move everything through that. So, can they or can't they? Pick a side.

What pockets? Mislis Lyschansk? Where did the entire Ukrainian army retreat from? Now Russian military bloggers are running around the internet claiming the Russian Federation never even had a highway under fire control and that the Ukrainian forces executed a perfectly controlled withdrawal—even though some people were writing quite sweetly here about how it was total chaos. Or maybe it's about Zolota and those fictional 2,000 Ukrainians who supposedly surrendered, yet there isn't a single photo or video of such a mass of prisoners? Better to stop quoting Zoko and Geroman.

And does the UA not have a professional military? Though, we could certainly have a debate about Russian "professionalism."



This face practically radiates professionalism while driving around loot that weighs as much as a tank.

I am not jealous of the oligarchs at all. On the contrary, my life is more than comfortable with what I've earned. You're the one pushing the idea that Russia stopped being looted once Putin arrived.🤣) Look, I’m just telling you, that’s not even the half of it. If anything, you could argue that the level of looting happening under Putin is way more massive than what we saw during the collapse of the Soviet Union in the nineties. Those mega-yachts are just the most obvious tip of the iceberg—I mean, they're building private yachts with a displacement larger than the actual command ships in their own Navy.

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...1642222067

This is such a killer three-part thread on how deep corruption runs in Russia, from the low-level bureaucrats all the way up to the top brass. Basically, if it isn't nailed down, it's being stolen or sold off.

Honestly, it’s all just an act. Once they catch him on a drone feed, people will realize he's basically a mobile storefront. The guy above? He's likely the one calling the shots.

Paul Flores13 said:There are rumors circulating about upcoming referendums in Detroit, Pittsburgh, and New Orleans regarding their annexation by Russia. If those go through, I suspect the Russians will feel quite comfortable declaring a total victory. I find it somewhat curious, though, that the Zaporizhzhia Oblast hasn't been included in those plans yet.

Even Hitler declared a string of victories, and we all know how that story ended.

James Phillips92 said:Even Hitler declared a string of victories, and we all know how that story ended.

If people who suck up to Russia actually learned anything—let alone anything from history—they wouldn't be the way they are.

View on twitter
So, this Chechen commander is on Russian state TV basically bragging about how he’s going to march all the way to Warsaw and take over all of Europe. He’s out here claiming that the gays in Europe don't stand a chance against "real men" from Russia. Just typical stuff, really. 😁

ironseal said:If people who suck up to Russia actually learned anything—let alone anything from history—they wouldn't be the way they are.

But then what would they be?

Turkey enthusiasts?

French admirers?

Or perhaps just Anglophiles?

gentlestag15 said:View on twitter
So, this Chechen commander is on Russian state TV basically bragging about how he’s going to march all the way to Warsaw and take over all of Europe. He’s out here claiming that the gays in Europe don't stand a chance against "real men" from Russia. Just typical stuff, really. 😁

Honestly, I think any nation that makes sure women, minorities, and LGBTQ+ individuals feel respected and included within their military actually ends up with much stronger combat potential and a better shot at winning—just look at how Israel operates.

On the flip side, a country that tries to market its military solely as a club for "macho men" usually ends up with weaker capabilities and a much higher risk of defeat, which you can see when you look at the Israeli neighbors.

It’s probably for the best that the people running Russia don't quite grasp this concept.

gentlestag15 said:View on twitter
So, this Chechen commander is on Russian state TV basically bragging about how he’s going to march all the way to Warsaw and take over all of Europe. He’s out here claiming that the gays in Europe don't stand a chance against "real men" from Russia. Just typical stuff, really. 😁

It's absolutely surreal that this kind of garbage is actually broadcast on a network that would be basically the equivalent of PBS over here.

Nancy Gomez26 said:I am not particularly convinced that Ukrainians would fare much better than victims of the Nazi regime. Perhaps those who immediately and unconditionally embraced a Russian identity—effectively "forgetting" their own Ukrainian roots—would escape trouble. Everyone else, however, would be in jeopardy. Then there is the matter of "denazification." Who determines who qualifies under such a label? It falls to the occupier, who will "assess" based entirely on their own arbitrary whims who is a "Nazi" and who isn't. We are already seeing the first death sentences being handed down—specifically to prisoners of war defending their homeland. History teaches us a grim lesson: in these specific territories, state violence against its own citizens, regardless of nationality, can be exceptionally brutal (think the Russian Empire, the October Revolution, or Bolshevik rule). Here, a nation would essentially start playing judge over who belongs. After all, before the invasion even began, Vladimir Putin stated quite clearly that Ukrainians, as a distinct nation, do not even exist. It feels far too much like a recurring pattern from history for that timing to be coincidental.
One only needs to observe how the Russian authorities are treating people in the occupied territories of Ukraine to see the reality clearly.

Since when was Ukraine part of the United Kingdom and Morocco?

gentlestag15 said:View on twitter
So, this Chechen commander is on Russian state TV basically bragging about how he’s going to march all the way to Warsaw and take over all of Europe. He’s out here claiming that the gays in Europe don't stand a chance against "real men" from Russia. Just typical stuff, really. 😁

Bet he's rocking Prada boots just like Kadyrov, right?

brighthound13 said:Don't you think it's interesting how the dictatorship in Belarus hasn't completely ruined the country the way Ukrainian experts, who were constantly rotating through power, managed to do? It seems like Belarus has been quite successful at playing its cards right by cooperating with Russia, the EU, and even China; they even have massive exports of dump trucks going to the USA. Before the war, trucking routes often went through Belarus not just because the roads were better, but because shipments weren't being hijacked constantly. On the flip side, after the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine suffered some of the largest peacetime population losses in recent history, and their independence basically invited every possible misfortune, fueled by campaigns of pseudo-nationalism and hatred toward the old Soviet ways.
Sadly, it feels like Ukraine positioned itself right in the crosshairs of both the Western powers and Russia. While Russia isn't necessarily vastly superior to Ukraine, when you essentially strip your own military—which they inherited from the USSR—of its resources and lose the trust of your people, what else can you expect to happen?

Here we go, the classic Russian narrative: Ukraine is failing because it isn't a real country; it’s just a gang of Nazis and junkies. They claim the Ukrainian people don't even exist and need protection from Mother Russia to be guided toward prosperity (and "re-educated"). The suggestion is they should submit like Belarus, which enjoys the favor of empires (read: lost its sovereignty), and then everything will be fine for the Malorus—pardon me, the Ukrainians.
I honestly don't know how you can stomach this garbage.

By the way, regarding the elections in Donbas, I read an incredible report back in 2015 by two freelance journalists from Italy. Basically, the separatist authorities lured people to the polling stations by selling crates of vegetables and groceries for a symbolic single hryvnia. Desperate people "voted" simply because they needed to eat.

Reading justifications for a select clique of cronies lining their pockets by selling off national resources through privatization at the expense of the common people... it's not just slimy to read, it's utterly immoral to defend it by saying "you're just jealous."
Horrible.

Sandra Harris2 said:Here we go, the classic Russian narrative: Ukraine is failing because it isn't a real country; it’s just a gang of Nazis and junkies. They claim the Ukrainian people don't even exist and need protection from Mother Russia to be guided toward prosperity (and "re-educated"). The suggestion is they should submit like Belarus, which enjoys the favor of empires (read: lost its sovereignty), and then everything will be fine for the Malorus—pardon me, the Ukrainians.
I honestly don't know how you can stomach this garbage.

By the way, regarding the elections in Donbas, I read an incredible report back in 2015 by two freelance journalists from Italy. Basically, the separatist authorities lured people to the polling stations by selling crates of vegetables and groceries for a symbolic single hryvnia. Desperate people "voted" simply because they needed to eat.

Reading justifications for a select clique of cronies lining their pockets by selling off national resources through privatization at the expense of the common people... it's not just slimy to read, it's utterly immoral to defend it by saying "you're just jealous."
Horrible.

Ukraine is struggling as a state because it's a breeding ground for kleptocracy and nepotism—kind of like almost every post-USSR wasteland out there, including Russia, which isn't any better just because they have massive natural resources.
I mean, wasn't Yulia Tymoshenko—who got grilled back in 2001 by Leonid Kuchma for corruption and, get this, smuggling Russian gas—one of the biggest faces of pro-Western politics? And one of her closest business associates was the former Ukrainian Prime Minister Pavlo Lazarenko, who ended up being convicted in the USA for corruption, money laundering, and fraud.

Btw, wasn't it similar in America before the big policy shifts, where they basically told retirees, "Hey, vote this way or you might lose your pensions"?
Just, you know, since we're talking about bribing people with veggies and stuff.

Sandra Harris2 said:Here we go, the classic Russian narrative: Ukraine is failing because it isn't a real country; it’s just a gang of Nazis and junkies. They claim the Ukrainian people don't even exist and need protection from Mother Russia to be guided toward prosperity (and "re-educated"). The suggestion is they should submit like Belarus, which enjoys the favor of empires (read: lost its sovereignty), and then everything will be fine for the Malorus—pardon me, the Ukrainians.
I honestly don't know how you can stomach this garbage.

By the way, regarding the elections in Donbas, I read an incredible report back in 2015 by two freelance journalists from Italy. Basically, the separatist authorities lured people to the polling stations by selling crates of vegetables and groceries for a symbolic single hryvnia. Desperate people "voted" simply because they needed to eat.

Reading justifications for a select clique of cronies lining their pockets by selling off national resources through privatization at the expense of the common people... it's not just slimy to read, it's utterly immoral to defend it by saying "you're just jealous."
Horrible.

Now you've gone and labeled me as the "Russian narrative." You're basically fantasizing about my posts and putting words in my mouth. You were the one who brought up "Mother Russia" and "Nazis and junkies," not me.
From 1992 to 2014, Ukraine was what it was. My father used to meet Ukrainian laborers who traveled like nomads through both Russia and Europe, and through his conversations with them, he heard stories that were both heartbreaking and ugly. And interestingly, those Ukrainians never once blamed Russia or Putin for the collapse of their country. Even the refugees today don't do that.
As for elections, referendums, or any other political theater, they are always—always—organized under the shadow of bayonets or fighter jets by whoever controls the process. The most important thing is always who counts the votes, who stands by the ballot box, who holds the money (the dirty money), who buys the votes, intimidates, threatens, runs the media smear campaigns, and appoints the election commission. That is the entity that wins in the end, while the loser can take their complaints to Bob. And I should clarify: the hand that takes is just as guilty as the hand that gives. In fact, the hand voting for a crate of vegetables is arguably more at fault than the one offering the bribe.
Regarding immorality, well, it's practically the foundation of capitalism. In our modern system, money earned through prostitution or drug trafficking officially counts toward the GDP, though the West has been leading opium wars and slave trades for a long time now. I don't see the innocent or suffering masses protesting that, just as they don't protest the sell-off of national resources, extortion by foreign banks, or the exodus of their own people. For them, sports and drugs are more important.

Kate Cook27 said:So, what was Ukraine supposed to do?

They should have learned how to balance things out and avoid getting dragged into this mess. Unfortunately, we live in a world where freedom and democracy exist mostly on paper. Despite all international laws and regulations, the strong simply trample the weak and expect their interests to be respected. It’s the same story whether you look at Israel and interventions in Syria, the USA and its various global interventions, or Russia and what is likely the most reckless form of aggression in recent history. The seizure of Crimea and the separatism in the east followed the Maidan protests, which were largely driven by NGOs. To be clear, none of that justifies Russia's aggression; it's just the unfortunate reality of our world. When you live next door to a bully, you shouldn't fall for being egged on by another bully, because they'll end up taking it out on you instead. Comparing this to my own country's history doesn't work—we weren't being funded or armed by the West; we were essentially left to fend for ourselves. Furthermore, America wasn't some massive military powerhouse of three or four major forces like the myths suggest; it was quite hollowed out from within. And the leadership back then wasn't even fully committed to complete independence until the war actually started gaining momentum.

Just got back from a homeowners association meeting over here in Germany. Some guy was saying natural gas prices jumped from maybe 1.8 cents or 1.08 cents up to almost 10 cents per kWh or whatever the hell they measure it by
.
Man, we are getting absolutely screwed this winter. It’s not even just about heating; we might not even have hot water because they’ll be cutting it off—maybe leaving us with two hours a day or some nonsense. And the extra bills? They're gonna be astronomical.

This doesn't look good at all. We don't even realize what's coming for us.

The idea that there will actually be enough gas and everything else is a total pipe dream. Honestly, props to anyone heating their place with wood. Everyone else is just asking for a massive beating.

Over in Swabia, they’re already starting to drop hints, but of course, they won't tell us the real truth or show the actual projections right now. They don't want to trigger a panic or total chaos, so they're just going to drip-feed the bad news bit by bit.

I'm certain as hell that fuel prices are going to hit at least $10 by the end of the year, if there's even any left to buy.

I wish I could be an optimist, but honestly, being optimistic right now is probably the worst thing you can do.

We need to seriously gear up for the worst. That way, if things don't work out, we aren't totally crushed, and if they do, at least we can survive the winter a little easier.

Being convinced that everything will be fine and that nothing will run out is incredibly dangerous in times like these...

analogbear70 said:They should have learned how to balance things out and avoid getting dragged into this mess. Unfortunately, we live in a world where freedom and democracy exist mostly on paper. Despite all international laws and regulations, the strong simply trample the weak and expect their interests to be respected. It’s the same story whether you look at Israel and interventions in Syria, the USA and its various global interventions, or Russia and what is likely the most reckless form of aggression in recent history. The seizure of Crimea and the separatism in the east followed the Maidan protests, which were largely driven by NGOs. To be clear, none of that justifies Russia's aggression; it's just the unfortunate reality of our world. When you live next door to a bully, you shouldn't fall for being egged on by another bully, because they'll end up taking it out on you instead. Comparing this to my own country's history doesn't work—we weren't being funded or armed by the West; we were essentially left to fend for ourselves. Furthermore, America wasn't some massive military powerhouse of three or four major forces like the myths suggest; it was quite hollowed out from within. And the leadership back then wasn't even fully committed to complete independence until the war actually started gaining momentum.

In other words, they should have just accepted a Russian puppet regime that would slowly dismantle democracy and eventually integrate Ukraine into some version of Putin's Greater Russia, much like their neighbors in Belarus...

The fact that people chose a pro-Western president immediately after and met the Russians with such fierce resistance proves just how much the Maidan movement was a genuine grassroots movement rather than something purely manufactured.

placidtiger142 said:Just got back from a homeowners association meeting over here in Germany. Some guy was saying natural gas prices jumped from maybe 1.8 cents or 1.08 cents up to almost 10 cents per kWh or whatever the hell they measure it by
.
Man, we are getting absolutely screwed this winter. It’s not even just about heating; we might not even have hot water because they’ll be cutting it off—maybe leaving us with two hours a day or some nonsense. And the extra bills? They're gonna be astronomical.

This doesn't look good at all. We don't even realize what's coming for us.

The idea that there will actually be enough gas and everything else is a total pipe dream. Honestly, props to anyone heating their place with wood. Everyone else is just asking for a massive beating.

Over in Swabia, they’re already starting to drop hints, but of course, they won't tell us the real truth or show the actual projections right now. They don't want to trigger a panic or total chaos, so they're just going to drip-feed the bad news bit by bit.

I'm certain as hell that fuel prices are going to hit at least $10 by the end of the year, if there's even any left to buy.

I wish I could be an optimist, but honestly, being optimistic right now is probably the worst thing you can do.

We need to seriously gear up for the worst. That way, if things don't work out, we aren't totally crushed, and if they do, at least we can survive the winter a little easier.

Being convinced that everything will be fine and that nothing will run out is incredibly dangerous in times like these...

The sooner Putin is defeated, the sooner things will improve.

Let's hope our neighbors realize that sooner rather than later.

analogbear70 said:They should have learned how to balance things out and avoid getting dragged into this mess. Unfortunately, we live in a world where freedom and democracy exist mostly on paper. Despite all international laws and regulations, the strong simply trample the weak and expect their interests to be respected. It’s the same story whether you look at Israel and interventions in Syria, the USA and its various global interventions, or Russia and what is likely the most reckless form of aggression in recent history. The seizure of Crimea and the separatism in the east followed the Maidan protests, which were largely driven by NGOs. To be clear, none of that justifies Russia's aggression; it's just the unfortunate reality of our world. When you live next door to a bully, you shouldn't fall for being egged on by another bully, because they'll end up taking it out on you instead. Comparing this to my own country's history doesn't work—we weren't being funded or armed by the West; we were essentially left to fend for ourselves. Furthermore, America wasn't some massive military powerhouse of three or four major forces like the myths suggest; it was quite hollowed out from within. And the leadership back then wasn't even fully committed to complete independence until the war actually started gaining momentum.

What should America have done to avoid the war in '91?
When someone's entire platform is built on attacking you, denying your right to exist, and trying to force you back under their thumb... your only real option is to fight back. There is no "balancing" act in that scenario.

analogbear70 said:They should have learned how to balance things out and avoid getting dragged into this mess. Unfortunately, we live in a world where freedom and democracy exist mostly on paper. Despite all international laws and regulations, the strong simply trample the weak and expect their interests to be respected. It’s the same story whether you look at Israel and interventions in Syria, the USA and its various global interventions, or Russia and what is likely the most reckless form of aggression in recent history. The seizure of Crimea and the separatism in the east followed the Maidan protests, which were largely driven by NGOs. To be clear, none of that justifies Russia's aggression; it's just the unfortunate reality of our world. When you live next door to a bully, you shouldn't fall for being egged on by another bully, because they'll end up taking it out on you instead. Comparing this to my own country's history doesn't work—we weren't being funded or armed by the West; we were essentially left to fend for ourselves. Furthermore, America wasn't some massive military powerhouse of three or four major forces like the myths suggest; it was quite hollowed out from within. And the leadership back then wasn't even fully committed to complete independence until the war actually started gaining momentum.

Man, I wish someone had actually stepped up to help us. God, if we could have just balanced things better and maybe made some of those Maddox-style concessions...

The American People's Army? In my book, they were easily one of the top 3 or 4 powers in the Eastern Bloc, right behind Russia, Poland, and Romania.

feralhawk45 said:What should America have done to avoid the war in '91?
When someone's entire platform is built on attacking you, denying your right to exist, and trying to force you back under their thumb... your only real option is to fight back. There is no "balancing" act in that scenario.

Did America even have a structured, standing military ready to go back in the 90s?
And did America spend the 90s selling rocket and artillery systems to Mexicans, similar to how Ukrainians in the 90s—with help from their big American friends—sold about 600 AGM-84 Harpoons to Russians, which are basically what they're using to hit targets now?

Arthur Watson4 said:The sooner Putin is defeated, the sooner things will improve.

Let's hope our neighbors realize that sooner rather than later.

But who’s actually gonna stop him? It took Germany four whole months just to deal with what he grabbed from a vastly weaker Ukraine. Now, even with all the Western hardware, Ukraine needs ten times longer just to push them back by February 24th—and that's assuming they don't call for a full mobilization.

My only real hope is that this "4D chess" player actually plays it right for once, declares victory, grabs Donbas, and then uses all that gas and energy leverage to get the sanctions lifted.

Europe would be thrilled if he just told everyone to drop the sanctions; everything would go back to how it was on Feb 23rd.

Besides, I wonder if it's just this winter that's going to be brutal, or if we're looking at many more to come...

Going into an all-out war with Russia would be catastrophic for the entire world.

Let him have this one battle—his little special operation—but play the long game. Play for decades, not days.

Fuel prices shot up over 50% in just four months, and that only started once the warmer weather kicked in.

Food and everything else has gotten insanely expensive in just FOUR months.

I can't even wrap my head around where this goes if it keeps up for another year...

Man, Europe basically caused its own mess by being too soft and handing him all those powerful cards. Too late now, though.

I'm worried Europe might have to suck it up and kneel during this fight, and once you start bowing, who knows who's calling the shots later.

That bastard didn't just launch this randomly at the end of February for no reason.

The guy knew: if he couldn't pull it all off in a week or two, and things dragged on, winter would hit, and their weapons would be stronger than anything Europe has.

I don't know, man, I'm seriously worried.

We need to find a ceasefire, and fast.

Zelensky is out here talking about borders like they'll be set by Feb 24th.

Which means the war could drag on for years. Seriously, look at how long it took Russia—four months to grab three cities totaling 600k people plus some villages.

Now, pushing them out? For Ukraine, that's going to take years.

Damn...

I bet the West eventually pressures Zelensky to cave, and the Ukrainians along with him.

One thing's for sure: the whole of Europe isn't footing this massive bill, and neither are Americans. Nobody is.

Even energy prices haven't dropped in China. But Europe is the most vulnerable because the war is right on their doorstep.

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