Sanctions on Russia

steelfox98 said:My take? The Dutch refused to pay in rubles. It’s the same story with the Bulgarians; they'll end up crawling back to ExxonMobil.
Winter is going to be a brutal reality check for this whole "unity" charade. Half the European Union members don't give a damn about solidarity when their own backs are against the wall. The Poles already filled their storage with "German" gas and immediately shut the door on sharing. I'm dying to see how the Germans react to that.
Then there's Viktor Orbán—a strange one, always looking out for his own backyard first.
Even the folks down south aren't exactly thrilled.

Don't forget Italy, either. They've snapped up all the extra supply from Algeria—the exact same stuff our politicians claimed would be the perfect alternative to Russian gas.☕.

Andrew Booth29 said:I’m looking around my apartment right now and—well, there isn't exactly a chimney, is there? Not that it matters much since I'm hooked up to the city heating system anyway. That stuff won't skyrocket in price quite like everything else. Honestly, the cold doesn't bother me that much; I'll just set the thermostat to 60 degrees and wrap myself in a thick blanket. It's actually healthier that way. 😬

Who cares? I've been through much worse than this. Not a single grain of wheat for the enemy! 🧐

Being on a central heating grid and having a thermostat at home... that's an interesting, and frankly quite rare, combination here in the States.

electricsurfer47 said:And what about firewood? Just buy a wood-burning stove. Makes life a lot more peaceful.

Wood requires storage space. You have to haul logs from the shed to the stove every single day, manage a chimney connection, deal with cleaning out the unit, and find a place for the ash. It's a relatively simple task if you live in a detached house, but if you're in an apartment building, it presents significant logistical hurdles.

rustywalker82 said:Honestly, that one sentence pretty much sums up why these mindless sanctions keep failing.
The whole point of sanctions should be simple: make sure the aggressor makes less money. If you don't know how to pull that off, go find someone who does or just step aside before you mess things up even more.

When politics starts driving the bus instead of economic objectives, those actual goals inevitably get pushed to the backseat. The Russians understand they have very little leverage over the West; they are economically weaker and essentially in a subordinate position. Their only real lever is energy supply, and that is a card they can only play once. It is certain this will hit the economies of their customers (the European Union), but eventually, there comes a day when people want to return to those same markets. Then we will see what kind of price will satisfy the same consumers who are currently being blackmailed under the guise of "supply security." This is a dance for two. The only question is who is going to step on whose toes—and when.

hollowdriver13 said:“The EU basically shot itself in the foot with those sanctions” 🙂

Let's be real for a second—suppose we didn't even bother with sanctions. Let's just say the EU and the US kept providing military and financial aid to Ukraine while treating the gas and oil business as strictly "business as usual." Honestly, don't you think Putin would still have choked off the gas supply? He’d just use it as a political weapon to try and blackmail everyone into stopping the support for Ukraine.
It's not like this would be his first rodeo, either. He started setting the stage back in 2021 right after the decision to go to war was made, and we saw those gas deliveries start to tank during the second half of that year.
I’d bet money that's when we'd actually see people in the West getting riled up, yelling at politicians, “Hey, you didn't even sanction the aggressor, and we're still stuck with high gas and oil prices anyway!”

https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/re...kraine-fatigue

Support for Ukraine isn't actually flagging. Over 80% of Americans are willing to stomach higher energy costs if it means keeping up the support, and they believe we need to stick it out until the end.
We're seeing pretty much the same numbers across other Western nations, too. Public support for Ukraine isn't going anywhere.

How much weaponry has the world actually given Ukraine? Maybe $11 billion?

Somewhere there's a link from a former Russian oligarch claiming the EU loses 200 billion euros in profit every month due to these sanctions. If they had just handed a quarter of that monthly profit to Ukraine, the war would have been over long ago. ☕

Regarding support for Ukraine: who conducted the poll? Democrats or Republicans? That matters. Besides, my friends in the States say Joe Biden isn't doing great in the polls, sitting at around 40% support. As for Ukraine? Most Americans couldn't care less.

I also see links about a ton of companies leaving Russia, claiming people were laid off. Clearly, we're living in parallel universes. People receiving that info have their own version of a European Putin. Those companies left behind entire infrastructures, and new firms just stepped in to take their place. Idiots can talk about trivial nonsense to their kids instead of the actual reality of the situation.
Just as Putin is delusional about a quick victory in Ukraine, the puppets in the EU massively underestimated Russia's economic strength and its ability to find alternatives. It’s like that one arrogant leader said, "Act first, think later"—we all know what he meant. ☕ As if Russia hasn't been under sanctions since 2014, and as if they haven't been hunting for workarounds since then.

Like I said, we are clearly living in parallel universes.

knedlaugrlu Asks:
How much military aid has the world actually sent to Ukraine? Is it around $11 billion?

Does anyone have a link to that former Russian oligarch? He was saying that the EU is losing about 200 billion euros in profit every month just from these sanctions. His point was that if they diverted even a quarter of that monthly profit to Ukraine, the war would have been over ages ago. ☕

Yeah, right. Like I'm going to go out and consult some Russian oligarch for information.
If I’m following your logic correctly, you're suggesting it would be better to scrap sanctions on Russia entirely and just pour significantly more funding into weapons for Ukraine instead? It's an interesting point, but wouldn't that just allow Russia to ramp up its own military buildup, likely leading to even more casualties and loss of life?

Who actually conducted that poll regarding support for Ukraine? Was it Democrats or Republicans? Either way... my friends back in the States are saying Biden isn't doing great in the polls lately, with his numbers dipping down to around 40%. As for Ukraine, most Americans couldn't care less.

Don't worry, Ukraine still has most people's support.

rowdyraven112 said:How much weaponry has the world actually given Ukraine? Maybe $11 billion?

Somewhere there's a link from a former Russian oligarch claiming the EU loses 200 billion euros in profit every month due to these sanctions. If they had just handed a quarter of that monthly profit to Ukraine, the war would have been over long ago. ☕

Regarding support for Ukraine: who conducted the poll? Democrats or Republicans? That matters. Besides, my friends in the States say Joe Biden isn't doing great in the polls, sitting at around 40% support. As for Ukraine? Most Americans couldn't care less.

I also see links about a ton of companies leaving Russia, claiming people were laid off. Clearly, we're living in parallel universes. People receiving that info have their own version of a European Putin. Those companies left behind entire infrastructures, and new firms just stepped in to take their place. Idiots can talk about trivial nonsense to their kids instead of the actual reality of the situation.
Just as Putin is delusional about a quick victory in Ukraine, the puppets in the EU massively underestimated Russia's economic strength and its ability to find alternatives. It’s like that one arrogant leader said, "Act first, think later"—we all know what he meant. ☕ As if Russia hasn't been under sanctions since 2014, and as if they haven't been hunting for workarounds since then.

Like I said, we are clearly living in parallel universes.

Because of sanctions on Russia, the EU loses $200 billion... per month.🤔🤔
By that logic, the EU has been exporting $200 billion worth of goods to Russia every month that they now can't move anywhere else.🤔
It’s just bizarre, especially when you consider that Russia is a nation of 150 million people with an economy comparable to that of Spain.
🤔

Following that line of reasoning... there's just no sense to it. Russian propaganda simply lacks any shred of logic.
Best regards,

Nancy Gomez26 said:Being on a central heating grid and having a thermostat at home... that's an interesting, and frankly quite rare, combination here in the States.

Yeah, most of the newer apartments come equipped with their own individual heat exchangers and meters... you basically just pay for what you actually use. It even comes with a thermostat, which is a pretty nice touch.

rowdyraven112 said:How much weaponry has the world actually given Ukraine? Maybe $11 billion?

Somewhere there's a link from a former Russian oligarch claiming the EU loses 200 billion euros in profit every month due to these sanctions. If they had just handed a quarter of that monthly profit to Ukraine, the war would have been over long ago. ☕

Regarding support for Ukraine: who conducted the poll? Democrats or Republicans? That matters. Besides, my friends in the States say Joe Biden isn't doing great in the polls, sitting at around 40% support. As for Ukraine? Most Americans couldn't care less.

I also see links about a ton of companies leaving Russia, claiming people were laid off. Clearly, we're living in parallel universes. People receiving that info have their own version of a European Putin. Those companies left behind entire infrastructures, and new firms just stepped in to take their place. Idiots can talk about trivial nonsense to their kids instead of the actual reality of the situation.
Just as Putin is delusional about a quick victory in Ukraine, the puppets in the EU massively underestimated Russia's economic strength and its ability to find alternatives. It’s like that one arrogant leader said, "Act first, think later"—we all know what he meant. ☕ As if Russia hasn't been under sanctions since 2014, and as if they haven't been hunting for workarounds since then.

Like I said, we are clearly living in parallel universes.

It wouldn't be over because Putin would just threaten to turn off the taps if they kept helping Ukraine on a scale where he might actually lose. Do you honestly believe he wouldn't cut or shut off the gas if he started losing the war?

He'd do exactly what he's doing now. Any Western move he doesn't like would be met with energy blackmail. No matter how stupid the West thinks they are, they aren't *that* stupid. When things kicked off in 2014, heads started turning. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The ones doing the heavy lifting for Ukraine—the US, the UK, Poland, the Scandinavians—don't give a damn about Russian gas anymore. They’re going to do whatever it takes to make sure Russia bleeds out, especially since they were foolish enough to walk straight into their own trap.
Russia is just plain old aggressors at this point, and the only real solution is to kick them out of Ukraine for good.

If we look past the immediate struggle of just getting through one more winter—and think about a real long-term strategy—bringing Ukraine closer to the EU makes perfect sense. The potential there, from the mineral reserves to the Donbas region, could essentially jumpstart the entire European economy and finally break our long-term dependency on those unpredictable Russian oligarchs. Instead of panicking over a single season, we should be focused on helping them reclaim what was stolen, rebuilding everything, and preparing for future production. I truly hope to see Ukraine become as prosperous as Poland in the near future—that would bring massive benefits to the whole European Union. And man, I’d love to live long enough to see what their cooperation with Russia looks like down the road! 😀

Arthur Miller7 said:It wouldn't be over because Putin would just threaten to turn off the taps if they kept helping Ukraine on a scale where he might actually lose. Do you honestly believe he wouldn't cut or shut off the gas if he started losing the war?

He'd do exactly what he's doing now. Any Western move he doesn't like would be met with energy blackmail. No matter how stupid the West thinks they are, they aren't *that* stupid. When things kicked off in 2014, heads started turning. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Actually, I think it works the other way around:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. (And honestly, fool me three times, we’re both just looking pretty silly at that point!)

Back to the topic at hand:

The Hague in the Netherlands just announced they're going to ask for a temporary waiver on those European Union sanctions against Russia, all while they scramble to find a new gas supplier to step in and replace ExxonMobil.

https://www.nytimes.com/news/zelensky-...-child-856124

rowdyraven112 said:How much weaponry has the world actually given Ukraine? Maybe $11 billion?

Somewhere there's a link from a former Russian oligarch claiming the EU loses 200 billion euros in profit every month due to these sanctions. If they had just handed a quarter of that monthly profit to Ukraine, the war would have been over long ago. ☕

Regarding support for Ukraine: who conducted the poll? Democrats or Republicans? That matters. Besides, my friends in the States say Joe Biden isn't doing great in the polls, sitting at around 40% support. As for Ukraine? Most Americans couldn't care less.

I also see links about a ton of companies leaving Russia, claiming people were laid off. Clearly, we're living in parallel universes. People receiving that info have their own version of a European Putin. Those companies left behind entire infrastructures, and new firms just stepped in to take their place. Idiots can talk about trivial nonsense to their kids instead of the actual reality of the situation.
Just as Putin is delusional about a quick victory in Ukraine, the puppets in the EU massively underestimated Russia's economic strength and its ability to find alternatives. It’s like that one arrogant leader said, "Act first, think later"—we all know what he meant. ☕ As if Russia hasn't been under sanctions since 2014, and as if they haven't been hunting for workarounds since then.

Like I said, we are clearly living in parallel universes.

And how exactly does this huge wall of text relate to what I said about Putin twisting things his way regardless of sanctions?
Are you suggesting he wouldn't use gas as blackmail? Because there are plenty of real-world examples from back in the day showing how Russia used energy supplies as political leverage...
The only way the gas would keep flowing without any hiccups is if the West completely looked the other way, pretended Ukraine didn't exist, and just let him annex territory or install puppets.

It’s honestly impossible to follow the logic when people are out here defending buying gas from an aggressor at ten times the usual rate—especially since we used to call those exact same deals out as wrong. At the end of the day, it’s about the money being drained, not just how much gas is flowing through the pipes.

Maybe there’s some collective delusion going on where everyone thinks Russians are actually hiding inside the gas canisters? Seriously, just grab a propane tank, hide it in your basement, and lock the door.🙂

rustywalker82 said:It’s honestly impossible to follow the logic when people are out here defending buying gas from an aggressor at ten times the usual rate—especially since we used to call those exact same deals out as wrong. At the end of the day, it’s about the money being drained, not just how much gas is flowing through the pipes.

Maybe there’s some collective delusion going on where everyone thinks Russians are actually hiding inside the gas canisters? Seriously, just grab a propane tank, hide it in your basement, and lock the door.🙂

Look, let’s play this out. Say we didn't slap on any sanctions—say we didn't help Ukraine at all and they just fell in two days flat. What happens next? Putin stands there and tells NATO, "Hey, get away from my borders or I'll shut off the gas," and we just hang our heads and give in again? Then he goes after the Baltic states since they aren't part of NATO anymore and takes them over too. Why? Because he controls the energy supply and nobody dares to step in. Then he starts backing Mexico in Canada... and everyone stays quiet because Putin holds the gas card. So, seriously, tell me—what's your brilliant plan here? The West is backed into a corner. There isn't a choice. Any attempt to "guess" which sanctions to pull means we're just softening up again. I genuinely want to hear the logic from you and anyone else whining about sanctions: how much longer were we supposed to look the other way? How many demands would Putin have had to make before we finally said "enough"? Where do you draw the line? Seriously, I'm asking.

Arthur Miller7 said:Look, let’s play this out. Say we didn't slap on any sanctions—say we didn't help Ukraine at all and they just fell in two days flat. What happens next? Putin stands there and tells NATO, "Hey, get away from my borders or I'll shut off the gas," and we just hang our heads and give in again? Then he goes after the Baltic states since they aren't part of NATO anymore and takes them over too. Why? Because he controls the energy supply and nobody dares to step in. Then he starts backing Mexico in Canada... and everyone stays quiet because Putin holds the gas card. So, seriously, tell me—what's your brilliant plan here? The West is backed into a corner. There isn't a choice. Any attempt to "guess" which sanctions to pull means we're just softening up again. I genuinely want to hear the logic from you and anyone else whining about sanctions: how much longer were we supposed to look the other way? How many demands would Putin have had to make before we finally said "enough"? Where do you draw the line? Seriously, I'm asking.

The whole mess we're in today basically stems from back in 2008 when we just let the annexation of Georgian territory slide without doing anything. If we had actually stood our ground and been decisive back then, Putin would probably be nothing more than a footnote in a history book by now.

Then came Crimea, and once again, we did practically nothing. Then we had the lukewarm response to Donetsk and Luhansk, and now we're sitting here acting like we shouldn't freeze up over three regions and a conflict where Russia just claims they have nothing to do with it. But at the end of the day, it's their backyard, and our economy is tied to Russian gas. Even when MH17 was shot down, it was just a shrug or a tiny gesture. We all know the Russians have been playing the West like a fiddle, using propaganda and blackmail to test the waters and see exactly how far they can push us. On February 24th, they finally decided that since everyone was letting them get away with everything, they might as well turn up the heat on this pot of boiling water, because the frog is already halfway cooked.

Russia is still living by the philosophy of Catherine the Great:

I have no way to defend my borders but to extend them.
Catherine the Great

Bryan Booth82 said:Because of sanctions on Russia, the EU loses $200 billion... per month.🤔🤔
By that logic, the EU has been exporting $200 billion worth of goods to Russia every month that they now can't move anywhere else.🤔
It’s just bizarre, especially when you consider that Russia is a nation of 150 million people with an economy comparable to that of Spain.
🤔

Following that line of reasoning... there's just no sense to it. Russian propaganda simply lacks any shred of logic.
Best regards,

There is plenty of logic involved—as soon as a Russian oligarch gives the order, the subjects are expected to listen rather than question.🙂

goldenowl73 said:The whole mess we're in today basically stems from back in 2008 when we just let the annexation of Georgian territory slide without doing anything. If we had actually stood our ground and been decisive back then, Putin would probably be nothing more than a footnote in a history book by now.

Then came Crimea, and once again, we did practically nothing. Then we had the lukewarm response to Donetsk and Luhansk, and now we're sitting here acting like we shouldn't freeze up over three regions and a conflict where Russia just claims they have nothing to do with it. But at the end of the day, it's their backyard, and our economy is tied to Russian gas. Even when MH17 was shot down, it was just a shrug or a tiny gesture. We all know the Russians have been playing the West like a fiddle, using propaganda and blackmail to test the waters and see exactly how far they can push us. On February 24th, they finally decided that since everyone was letting them get away with everything, they might as well turn up the heat on this pot of boiling water, because the frog is already halfway cooked.

Russia is still living by the philosophy of Catherine the Great:

I have no way to defend my borders but to extend them.
Catherine the Great

I'm with you on that, it's all pretty obvious to me. My question is actually for this group of forum users who are fighting so hard against sanctions. Like, what's the actual alternative here? What was the West supposed to do? That old-school logic about "we need to maintain good relations with Russia" just doesn't cut it anymore. The Russians are blackmailing us. After Ukraine, if they start demanding something else—and let's face it, they will, because why would they stop?—what is the West even supposed to do then? Since you guys are all squawking so much about how things should have been, why don't you come up with those big, grand solutions to bring world peace and keep everyone warm?

The only thing we could've—or should've—done was not to cave from the very start. Look, we're here right now because everyone was too worried about the financial fallout, and now we're right back in the same financial crap. We should have been phasing out Russian energy step-by-step so that when we finally said "enough," we wouldn't be in this pathetic situation. But yeah, easy to say now, right? You can't just flip a switch overnight. If we had started planning nuclear plants and other alternatives earlier, Putin would've seen the writing on the wall and launched his "special operation" way sooner. By being soft on Russia, we basically just made them stronger than they ever were (even back in 2008), while they just kept us on a leash and squeezed us slowly.

If sanctions weren't even on the table, Russia would be charging us whatever they wanted for energy—they’d have us over a barrel. We’ve certainly shot ourselves in the foot a bit here, haven't we? But, looking at the medium term, there's a chance we could eventually offset that lost gas by tapping into other sources. Sure, it might end up being more expensive than what we were paying back in the day, but it would still be significantly cheaper than the inflated prices we're staring down right now. As for how long that transition will actually take... well, that's anyone's guess.
The real issue is that we need to build out entirely new infrastructure from the ground up.

Arthur Miller7 said:I'm with you on that, it's all pretty obvious to me. My question is actually for this group of forum users who are fighting so hard against sanctions. Like, what's the actual alternative here? What was the West supposed to do? That old-school logic about "we need to maintain good relations with Russia" just doesn't cut it anymore. The Russians are blackmailing us. After Ukraine, if they start demanding something else—and let's face it, they will, because why would they stop?—what is the West even supposed to do then? Since you guys are all squawking so much about how things should have been, why don't you come up with those big, grand solutions to bring world peace and keep everyone warm?

The only thing we could've—or should've—done was not to cave from the very start. Look, we're here right now because everyone was too worried about the financial fallout, and now we're right back in the same financial crap. We should have been phasing out Russian energy step-by-step so that when we finally said "enough," we wouldn't be in this pathetic situation. But yeah, easy to say now, right? You can't just flip a switch overnight. If we had started planning nuclear plants and other alternatives earlier, Putin would've seen the writing on the wall and launched his "special operation" way sooner. By being soft on Russia, we basically just made them stronger than they ever were (even back in 2008), while they just kept us on a leash and squeezed us slowly.

It’s been said and written time and time again, but it feels like some people are simply choosing to be deaf and blind to the warnings that were already coming our way.

It never occurred to anyone, much like it hasn't today, to actually sit down and talk with Russia to resolve existing tensions instead of dragging Ukraine into NATO, establishing military bases, and positioning missiles in a way that makes Russia feel threatened.

I remember reading about how when the USSR placed missiles in Cuba, American planes carrying nuclear bombs were already in the air; if an agreement hadn't been reached at the very last second, the world would look very different today.

But I suppose I am just wasting my breath here, and I might as well end up in total "self-isolation" for trying to make sense of it all.