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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 42 views · 9.5K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
Timothy Nelson5 Timothy Nelson5 Active Member
232 messages
joined Oct 2018
#9321 ·
Nancy Gomez26 said:If the West fails, the Saudis lose everything regarding their investments in bonds denominated in Western currencies—the very surpluses they’ve scraped together from oil sales. If they finish these massive projects, all they will have left are empty skyscrapers, perhaps filled with travelers from elsewhere, maybe from the East. I don't see tourism becoming a cornerstone of the economy in KSA unless there is a fundamental shift, which, realistically speaking, seems highly unlikely. They remain a largely insular society; there are internal forces working hard to ensure it stays that way. Introducing true freedoms would fundamentally alter the nation's character, something the leadership simply cannot tolerate. MBS is reminiscent of Gorbachev; he wants to modernize the state without actually changing the underlying system... but reality doesn't work that way. Once the pressure becomes too great, the reforms will grind to a halt.

The cultural heritage of that region has always been centered around raids, plunder—including slaves, I suppose—trading just about anything, and squeezing taxes out of groups who hadn't converted to their religion...
Hard work, entrepreneurship, tourism... those things were never really part of the DNA for that civilization.

Thinking this can all be flipped on its head in ten years is probably just an illusion.

Most of that part of the world is desert or semi-desert, so naturally, it couldn't support nearly as many people as it does now. It was only through massive investments in infrastructure and basic civilization that the population could actually expand.
A large portion of them have learned to live off the state-provided welfare. You have huge numbers of people doing almost nothing, while importing millions of foreign workers—Western experts and laborers from poorer third-world nations.

Once the revenue from natural resources starts to stagnate significantly, I suspect everything will fall apart.

And honestly, the situation in Russia isn't much better.
They also run a huge chunk of their economy and national budget around selling natural resources.
Not quite as much as Saudi Arabia, and they are more diversified... but there are plenty of similarities.

It’s a fairly closed society globally, and someone on the inside is working very hard to keep it that way. Introducing certain freedoms would likely fundamentally change the character of the state itself, which I imagine the authorities find unacceptable. MBS is a bit like Mikhail Gorbachev; he wants changes to modernize the state, but he wants the system and the power structure to remain untouched... but that's not how reality works. When or if the authorities feel threatened, the reforms will stop.

You only have to look at Islamic extremist Iran, which used to be a much more cosmopolitan civilization... what happens when modernism clashes with tradition...

Something similar happened in Russia too... several times, actually...
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#9322 ·
Amanda Allen4 said:The way Saudi Arabia acts like some kind of partner is an absolute disgrace to any alliance of democratic nations—honestly, the sooner they ditch us for the camp of autocratic regimes, the better.

I’m all for a bipolar world.

And what exactly defines a bipolar world?
goldenorca11 goldenorca11 Member
33 messages
joined Jan 2012
#9323 ·
Timothy Nelson5 said:The cultural heritage of that region has always been centered around raids, plunder—including slaves, I suppose—trading just about anything, and squeezing taxes out of groups who hadn't converted to their religion...
Hard work, entrepreneurship, tourism... those things were never really part of the DNA for that civilization.

Thinking this can all be flipped on its head in ten years is probably just an illusion.

Most of that part of the world is desert or semi-desert, so naturally, it couldn't support nearly as many people as it does now. It was only through massive investments in infrastructure and basic civilization that the population could actually expand.
A large portion of them have learned to live off the state-provided welfare. You have huge numbers of people doing almost nothing, while importing millions of foreign workers—Western experts and laborers from poorer third-world nations.

Once the revenue from natural resources starts to stagnate significantly, I suspect everything will fall apart.

And honestly, the situation in Russia isn't much better.
They also run a huge chunk of their economy and national budget around selling natural resources.
Not quite as much as Saudi Arabia, and they are more diversified... but there are plenty of similarities.

It’s a fairly closed society globally, and someone on the inside is working very hard to keep it that way. Introducing certain freedoms would likely fundamentally change the character of the state itself, which I imagine the authorities find unacceptable. MBS is a bit like Mikhail Gorbachev; he wants changes to modernize the state, but he wants the system and the power structure to remain untouched... but that's not how reality works. When or if the authorities feel threatened, the reforms will stop.

You only have to look at Islamic extremist Iran, which used to be a much more cosmopolitan civilization... what happens when modernism clashes with tradition...

Something similar happened in Russia too... several times, actually...

The clash between 21st-century modernism and long-standing tradition is still playing out on a global scale. Here in the States, you can really see it in the friction between the growing LGBT movement and the predominantly Protestant population. Honestly, the divide among believers is incredibly sharp right now!

It feels like Catholicism is losing its grip across Europe, slowly morphing from within into something that looks more and more like a brand-new version of Protestantism.

Islam holds an incredibly powerful grip on Asia right now, and we’re seeing a real shift toward fundamentalism, similar to the rise of ISIS.

It feels like history is repeating itself right before our eyes. Looking at Russia, they seem to be following the exact same trajectory that the old Soviet era took after its collapse—just with about a twenty-five-year delay. If you look back at the early 90s versus what we are seeing now, the patterns are eerily similar, and I suspect the endgame will be much the same. The big picture is becoming quite clear: the US and the European Union have successfully integrated nations like Ukraine into the fold, making them economically stronger than ever. Meanwhile, you have Russia and Mexico facing a future of stagnation at best, or risking total fragmentation at worst. In my view, Mexico has essentially already lost Mexico; they just haven't officially signed the paperwork yet. As for Russia, they are staring down the barrel of losing much more than just this conflict in Ukraine. Time will tell exactly how much they have left to lose.

Christian Torres3 said:And what exactly defines a bipolar world?

Amanda Allen4 isn't exactly known for being crystal clear in her posts, but I have to say, this one isn't nearly as cryptic as usual!
Amanda Allen4 said:Honestly, calling Saudi Arabia a "partner" is just an embarrassment. It’s hard to take any of these supposed alliances seriously when they act like this! The League of Democratic States. I honestly think we need to get them out of here as soon as possible! It feels like we’re seeing a real surge in the number of autocratic regimes lately. It’s becoming quite a crowded club! Even better! Honestly, I’m all for a bipolar world.

Two sides to every story:
The alliance of democratic nations—which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has managed to sneak its way into!
A real clique of autocrats.

What really gets me thinking is that list of countries forming the autocratic camp. I keep wondering about the ones that aren't officially on any list at all. Could it be somewhere like India?

Sanctions—or more accurately, the global economy—really play a massive role here. If the world hadn't become so interconnected, some aggressors would have gone to war with all their neighbors a long time ago. They simply can't afford to let trade suffer because of a conflict. It’s a tough spot for them; they want to take over Taiwan, but they don't want to leave it in ruins. They aren't looking for a wasteland—they want that thriving economy, but the economy isn't exactly willing to hand itself over to them! 😁
If China hadn't pivoted from Mao's old-school communist mess into its current state, Taiwan would have been swallowed up by China a long time ago.

I honestly hope Noah Diaz and a few of those other Putin's friends around here don't live long enough to see the truth! They’re out here acting like #sanctionsDontWork and claiming things like "the ruble is stronger than ever," and so on and so forth. It's just wild. 🤣
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#9324 ·
goldenorca11 said:The clash between 21st-century modernism and long-standing tradition is still playing out on a global scale. Here in the States, you can really see it in the friction between the growing LGBT movement and the predominantly Protestant population. Honestly, the divide among believers is incredibly sharp right now!

It feels like Catholicism is losing its grip across Europe, slowly morphing from within into something that looks more and more like a brand-new version of Protestantism.

Islam holds an incredibly powerful grip on Asia right now, and we’re seeing a real shift toward fundamentalism, similar to the rise of ISIS.

It feels like history is repeating itself right before our eyes. Looking at Russia, they seem to be following the exact same trajectory that the old Soviet era took after its collapse—just with about a twenty-five-year delay. If you look back at the early 90s versus what we are seeing now, the patterns are eerily similar, and I suspect the endgame will be much the same. The big picture is becoming quite clear: the US and the European Union have successfully integrated nations like Ukraine into the fold, making them economically stronger than ever. Meanwhile, you have Russia and Mexico facing a future of stagnation at best, or risking total fragmentation at worst. In my view, Mexico has essentially already lost Mexico; they just haven't officially signed the paperwork yet. As for Russia, they are staring down the barrel of losing much more than just this conflict in Ukraine. Time will tell exactly how much they have left to lose.

Amanda Allen4 isn't exactly known for being crystal clear in her posts, but I have to say, this one isn't nearly as cryptic as usual!

Two sides to every story:
The alliance of democratic nations—which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has managed to sneak its way into!
A real clique of autocrats.

What really gets me thinking is that list of countries forming the autocratic camp. I keep wondering about the ones that aren't officially on any list at all. Could it be somewhere like India?

Sanctions—or more accurately, the global economy—really play a massive role here. If the world hadn't become so interconnected, some aggressors would have gone to war with all their neighbors a long time ago. They simply can't afford to let trade suffer because of a conflict. It’s a tough spot for them; they want to take over Taiwan, but they don't want to leave it in ruins. They aren't looking for a wasteland—they want that thriving economy, but the economy isn't exactly willing to hand itself over to them! 😁
If China hadn't pivoted from Mao's old-school communist mess into its current state, Taiwan would have been swallowed up by China a long time ago.

I honestly hope Noah Diaz and a few of those other Putin's friends around here don't live long enough to see the truth! They’re out here acting like #sanctionsDontWork and claiming things like "the ruble is stronger than ever," and so on and so forth. It's just wild. 🤣

Under Mao's regime, the Chinese simply lacked the technological teeth to touch Taiwan. Once they achieved modernization, they became deeply entwined with the West; disrupting that relationship would be economic suicide. The current issue is Xi. As a leader, he’s reintroducing absolute autocracy on a massive scale—even more aggressively than those before him—effectively stalling the nation's social progress despite having the capacity to do otherwise.
Taiwan isn't going to be handed over on a silver platter. Everyone saw how quickly the "one country, two systems" promise evaporated when the British left Hong Kong. And in that case, they didn't even have to make promises to begin with.
Chloe Jackson15 Chloe Jackson15 Member
29 messages
joined Mar 2023
#9325 ·
Christian Torres3 said:And what exactly defines a bipolar world?

It’s just like the disorder. One minute things are up, the next they're crashing down.
I find it fascinating how the people constantly calling for a bipolar world wouldn't seem to mind a totally unipolar "Russian world" one bit. 🙂 In short, they're hypocrites...
Noah Diaz Noah Diaz Active Member
114 messages
joined Sep 2021
#9326 ·
Christian Torres3 said:And what exactly defines a bipolar world?

That era ended when the USSR collapsed. Since then, we've been living in what people call a multipolar world, but nobody bothered to tell the Americans. They’re still stuck in the past, refusing to face reality.

That’s why we keep seeing these ridiculous American statements that nobody takes seriously anymore. I honestly don't know if they intend to go to war with most of the planet or just slap them with more sanctions.🤣

These are the moves of desperate people. It’s a clear sign that these sanctions are nothing more than empty words on a page.

https://fortune.com/2023/04/07/us-ru...oing-business/
The US has a message for any nation or corporation still trading with Russia: You're either with us or against us.

High-ranking officials from the U.S. Treasury Department are organizing special international tours this month. Their goal is to lean on the companies and countries that maintain business ties with Russia, forcing them to sever all financial connections due to the conflict in Ukraine.
Chloe Jackson15 Chloe Jackson15 Member
29 messages
joined Mar 2023
#9327 ·
Noah Diaz said:That era ended when the USSR collapsed. Since then, we've been living in what people call a multipolar world, but nobody bothered to tell the Americans. They’re still stuck in the past, refusing to face reality.

That’s why we keep seeing these ridiculous American statements that nobody takes seriously anymore. I honestly don't know if they intend to go to war with most of the planet or just slap them with more sanctions.🤣

These are the moves of desperate people. It’s a clear sign that these sanctions are nothing more than empty words on a page.

https://fortune.com/2023/04/07/us-ru...oing-business/
The US has a message for any nation or corporation still trading with Russia: You're either with us or against us.

High-ranking officials from the U.S. Treasury Department are organizing special international tours this month. Their goal is to lean on the companies and countries that maintain business ties with Russia, forcing them to sever all financial connections due to the conflict in Ukraine.

Man, if only everyone had your brain, mapping out the financial status of a parallel universe.
Just keep enjoying your fantasy land...
Because in this reality, we all know who holds the power, and you're clearly running away into your own little fairy tale to cope with it.
ironpuma29 ironpuma29 Member
31 messages
joined Dec 2006
#9328 ·
goldenorca11 said:The clash between 21st-century modernism and long-standing tradition is still playing out on a global scale. Here in the States, you can really see it in the friction between the growing LGBT movement and the predominantly Protestant population. Honestly, the divide among believers is incredibly sharp right now!

It feels like Catholicism is losing its grip across Europe, slowly morphing from within into something that looks more and more like a brand-new version of Protestantism.

Islam holds an incredibly powerful grip on Asia right now, and we’re seeing a real shift toward fundamentalism, similar to the rise of ISIS.

It feels like history is repeating itself right before our eyes. Looking at Russia, they seem to be following the exact same trajectory that the old Soviet era took after its collapse—just with about a twenty-five-year delay. If you look back at the early 90s versus what we are seeing now, the patterns are eerily similar, and I suspect the endgame will be much the same. The big picture is becoming quite clear: the US and the European Union have successfully integrated nations like Ukraine into the fold, making them economically stronger than ever. Meanwhile, you have Russia and Mexico facing a future of stagnation at best, or risking total fragmentation at worst. In my view, Mexico has essentially already lost Mexico; they just haven't officially signed the paperwork yet. As for Russia, they are staring down the barrel of losing much more than just this conflict in Ukraine. Time will tell exactly how much they have left to lose.

Amanda Allen4 isn't exactly known for being crystal clear in her posts, but I have to say, this one isn't nearly as cryptic as usual!

Two sides to every story:
The alliance of democratic nations—which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has managed to sneak its way into!
A real clique of autocrats.

What really gets me thinking is that list of countries forming the autocratic camp. I keep wondering about the ones that aren't officially on any list at all. Could it be somewhere like India?

Sanctions—or more accurately, the global economy—really play a massive role here. If the world hadn't become so interconnected, some aggressors would have gone to war with all their neighbors a long time ago. They simply can't afford to let trade suffer because of a conflict. It’s a tough spot for them; they want to take over Taiwan, but they don't want to leave it in ruins. They aren't looking for a wasteland—they want that thriving economy, but the economy isn't exactly willing to hand itself over to them! 😁
If China hadn't pivoted from Mao's old-school communist mess into its current state, Taiwan would have been swallowed up by China a long time ago.

I honestly hope Noah Diaz and a few of those other Putin's friends around here don't live long enough to see the truth! They’re out here acting like #sanctionsDontWork and claiming things like "the ruble is stronger than ever," and so on and so forth. It's just wild. 🤣

Let's just step back to where we were about a year ago.

At first, the ruble didn't move much against the dollar after the offensive started, but lately, it's dropped quite a bit.
There’s a specific phenomenon here, a reason why Russia managed to stay financially afloat...
back in 2022...
To start, look at those massive reserves—half kept in Russia and half in various banks globally.
First, half got frozen, but there were still trillions upon trillions of rubles sitting right there in Russia. Plus, until the end of last year, they were getting steady payments from their biggest consumer in the European Union for gas and oil deliveries... that money funded the state's needs throughout 2022.
Between those huge reserves, the steady cash flow, limited domestic withdrawals due to banking restrictions, and a pivot toward domestic production instead of imports, they avoided bankruptcy.
And they didn't need the International Monetary Fund to act as a tutor...
which would have forced austerity measures across all government sectors.

The sabotage of the pipelines, specifically I and II, actually helped Russia... (who really did it?
we can guess about the pipeline mining, but we'll probably never know the truth)
- Maybe the Russians squeezed the EU harder...
- Maybe the Americans pressured Germany...
- Maybe Ukrainians (that would force the EU to step up, and eventually, charging for transit through their territory could become quite lucrative)
The first real blow to Russia was the 5th, 6th, or 7th sanction point, which limits gas and oil purchases to lower prices and smaller volumes (ignoring the black market, which doesn't help them much).

So, 2022 wasn't a huge hit to their financial status...

But nothing lasts forever. Reserves are melting away... export revenue is shrinking...
and pivoting to a war economy is expensive.
Consumer goods aren't being produced like they were at the start, and there are fewer products available that don't rely on "Western" components.
On top of that, about 3 million Russians are leaving for various reasons. These are usually highly educated citizens, meaning more lost jobs and less tax revenue for the state treasury.
Then there's the influx of disabled veterans returning from the front... a direct cost to the state that keeps coming as long as they are alive and not producing.
Death benefits add to the burden, too.

Projections for 2023 aren't great...
The piggy bank is emptying, leading to cuts in social spending, pensions, and salaries across this massive economy.
People in Eastern Russia will feel the drop in living standards first... after a few months...
as will the European part of Russia. That area might see a slight dip initially, though they've lived well so far and will just have to tighten their belts.
Even now, the influencers aren't as loud as they were at the beginning... Russians seem to be living better than before the war.
Restaurants are full, malls are full... sure, they're full, but the shopping baskets are lighter.
We're talking about the lower class here, since the middle class barely exists, much like in the US.

Right now, a day of warfare costs Russia about a billion dollars. Even if it were half that...
it's too much for any nation.
What if they actually take all of Ukraine? They won't have the "strength" to rebuild everything they destroyed... maybe they never will, because the import and export sanctions remain in place...
How long? Nobody actually knows...

We need to watch how fast they can build that pipeline to China using their own components. It would bring a massive influx of cash back to Russia, though still less than what they were seeing two years ago.

Russian economists are estimating stability might hold until mid-summer, but then a tsunami hits everything...

And don't expect any protests from the Russian people. They won't happen. The repressive apparatus will be paid even more than before just to keep everyone submissive.
Money does that. The intelligence agencies know the politics are wrong, but loyalty is bought. Plus, the structure of those agencies is such that "every spy is being spied on"...
and if you get caught, you might even get a reward.

The prediction is... Russia will survive regardless of how little they have left, becoming a nation of "happy" people, much like South Korea.

How many years will it take to "wake up" under a totalitarian system like this?
Maybe never.

And what about the mobsters and the ultra-rich?

They won't feel the people's struggles much. They have enough accounts scattered across global banks... you don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Some are in Dubai right now... spending money like there's no tomorrow.
There are others on the coast of Florida... yacht racing by young Russians who fled a year ago—the oligarchs' kids, obviously.

It looks like this whole war was planned for years. No one doubted that Russia was hoarding massive reserves in gold.
But they miscalculated with the democratic West. Half their funds are frozen... otherwise, they wouldn't be struggling this hard to stay afloat.

From one perspective, we'll see a major market crash in Russia toward the end of the year. One possible outcome could be a withdrawal from Ukraine... paying out war damages and returning whatever is left in the treasury to the Russians, since it belongs to them after all.
But the sanctions remain. Isolation continues... until things change.

At the same time, this is a harsh lesson regarding potential terrorism of this kind. It doesn't matter if it's Russians, Americans, the Chinese... or any nuclear power.
If this isn't the rule moving forward, we're just destined to keep repeating the same mistakes.
nimbleviper3 nimbleviper3 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2020
#9329 ·
analogbear5 said:I'm not even getting into whether the investment makes sense—that's beside the point. The real issue is looking at the numbers putting massive pressure on their budget. Which means—and I'll say this again—they aren't cutting production to help out the Russians like the post I'm replying to suggests; they're doing it for their own sake.

Not sure where you got the idea that the Saudis are buying up U.S. Treasuries when they’ve actually been selling them more than buying them lately. Just for context, Ireland holds about 2.5 times more U.S. Treasuries in its fund than Saudi Arabia does.

And how exactly is the European Union supposed to "wake up"?

We need a total embargo on exporting any kind of technology to non-democratic societies—meaning Africa, South America, and Asia. Anyone caught violating this should face life imprisonment and asset forfeiture. If people haven't realized it by now, we are at war; it's just a matter of when things escalate. We need to cut China off at the pass, even if it means severing all trade and political ties. We must turn back to the democratic and civilized world. There is no other option.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#9330 ·
And why's that?
John Ramos45 John Ramos45 Active Member
73 messages
joined Apr 2023
#9331 ·
The Ruble is performing quite impressively right now.

https://i.ibb.co/SBkb9Sy/rubel.jpg
electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#9332 ·
John Ramos45 said:The Ruble is performing quite impressively right now.

https://i.ibb.co/SBkb9Sy/rubel.jpg

I don't know... I feel like the ruble is basically dead as a currency at this point. But honestly, maybe the Russians can just trade using something else that won't tank on them—like gold? I think they're still accepting that kind of stuff from other countries.
George Lewis9 George Lewis9 Active Member
66 messages
joined Mar 2018
#9333 ·
Absolut Vodka from Sweden—which has been owned by a French company for years now—is ramping up its exports to Russia again.

Source: https://www.di.se/nyheter/vodkajatte...till-ryssland/
Chloe Jackson15 Chloe Jackson15 Member
29 messages
joined Mar 2023
#9334 ·
George Lewis9 said:Absolut Vodka from Sweden—which has been owned by a French company for years now—is ramping up its exports to Russia again.

Source: https://www.di.se/nyheter/vodkajatte...till-ryssland/

Fantastic. 😁
At this rate, why stop there? Let's just lift the sanctions on LSD and cocaine too.
It’s all good for mass consumption, right? 😁
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#9335 ·
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...50211927375879

Looks like Russia might be looking at slapping on an extra "military tax" of around 2-3% to help fund things.
Steven Thompson11 Steven Thompson11 Newcomer
1 message
joined Apr 2023
#9336 ·
ironpuma29 said:Let's just step back to where we were about a year ago.

At first, the ruble didn't move much against the dollar after the offensive started, but lately, it's dropped quite a bit.
There’s a specific phenomenon here, a reason why Russia managed to stay financially afloat...
back in 2022...
To start, look at those massive reserves—half kept in Russia and half in various banks globally.
First, half got frozen, but there were still trillions upon trillions of rubles sitting right there in Russia. Plus, until the end of last year, they were getting steady payments from their biggest consumer in the European Union for gas and oil deliveries... that money funded the state's needs throughout 2022.
Between those huge reserves, the steady cash flow, limited domestic withdrawals due to banking restrictions, and a pivot toward domestic production instead of imports, they avoided bankruptcy.
And they didn't need the International Monetary Fund to act as a tutor...
which would have forced austerity measures across all government sectors.

The sabotage of the pipelines, specifically I and II, actually helped Russia... (who really did it?
we can guess about the pipeline mining, but we'll probably never know the truth)
- Maybe the Russians squeezed the EU harder...
- Maybe the Americans pressured Germany...
- Maybe Ukrainians (that would force the EU to step up, and eventually, charging for transit through their territory could become quite lucrative)
The first real blow to Russia was the 5th, 6th, or 7th sanction point, which limits gas and oil purchases to lower prices and smaller volumes (ignoring the black market, which doesn't help them much).

So, 2022 wasn't a huge hit to their financial status...

But nothing lasts forever. Reserves are melting away... export revenue is shrinking...
and pivoting to a war economy is expensive.
Consumer goods aren't being produced like they were at the start, and there are fewer products available that don't rely on "Western" components.
On top of that, about 3 million Russians are leaving for various reasons. These are usually highly educated citizens, meaning more lost jobs and less tax revenue for the state treasury.
Then there's the influx of disabled veterans returning from the front... a direct cost to the state that keeps coming as long as they are alive and not producing.
Death benefits add to the burden, too.

Projections for 2023 aren't great...
The piggy bank is emptying, leading to cuts in social spending, pensions, and salaries across this massive economy.
People in Eastern Russia will feel the drop in living standards first... after a few months...
as will the European part of Russia. That area might see a slight dip initially, though they've lived well so far and will just have to tighten their belts.
Even now, the influencers aren't as loud as they were at the beginning... Russians seem to be living better than before the war.
Restaurants are full, malls are full... sure, they're full, but the shopping baskets are lighter.
We're talking about the lower class here, since the middle class barely exists, much like in the US.

Right now, a day of warfare costs Russia about a billion dollars. Even if it were half that...
it's too much for any nation.
What if they actually take all of Ukraine? They won't have the "strength" to rebuild everything they destroyed... maybe they never will, because the import and export sanctions remain in place...
How long? Nobody actually knows...

We need to watch how fast they can build that pipeline to China using their own components. It would bring a massive influx of cash back to Russia, though still less than what they were seeing two years ago.

Russian economists are estimating stability might hold until mid-summer, but then a tsunami hits everything...

And don't expect any protests from the Russian people. They won't happen. The repressive apparatus will be paid even more than before just to keep everyone submissive.
Money does that. The intelligence agencies know the politics are wrong, but loyalty is bought. Plus, the structure of those agencies is such that "every spy is being spied on"...
and if you get caught, you might even get a reward.

The prediction is... Russia will survive regardless of how little they have left, becoming a nation of "happy" people, much like South Korea.

How many years will it take to "wake up" under a totalitarian system like this?
Maybe never.

And what about the mobsters and the ultra-rich?

They won't feel the people's struggles much. They have enough accounts scattered across global banks... you don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Some are in Dubai right now... spending money like there's no tomorrow.
There are others on the coast of Florida... yacht racing by young Russians who fled a year ago—the oligarchs' kids, obviously.

It looks like this whole war was planned for years. No one doubted that Russia was hoarding massive reserves in gold.
But they miscalculated with the democratic West. Half their funds are frozen... otherwise, they wouldn't be struggling this hard to stay afloat.

From one perspective, we'll see a major market crash in Russia toward the end of the year. One possible outcome could be a withdrawal from Ukraine... paying out war damages and returning whatever is left in the treasury to the Russians, since it belongs to them after all.
But the sanctions remain. Isolation continues... until things change.

At the same time, this is a harsh lesson regarding potential terrorism of this kind. It doesn't matter if it's Russians, Americans, the Chinese... or any nuclear power.
If this isn't the rule moving forward, we're just destined to keep repeating the same mistakes.

The Ruble isn't really a market currency anymore—not since the government stepped in and killed off any actual competition. They've put limits on citizens trying to get their hands on foreign cash (like USD or EUR), and exporters are forced to hand over 80% of their foreign currency earnings straight to the state.
At the end of the day, we can only guess what the exchange rate would actually look like if the government hadn't meddled. My bet? The Ruble would be crashing way past 200 per dollar.
Anthony Jones15 Anthony Jones15 Member
13 messages
joined Oct 2011
#9337 ·
Between a fragile Russian economy and heavy-handed capital controls from China, both of their currencies are losing their luster on the global stage.

Here is an article regarding the recent attempts by Russia and China to "dedollarize" global markets:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...n-trade-2023-2
Dennis Price Dennis Price Active Member
86 messages
joined Mar 2022
#9338 ·
I honestly hope the Russians introduce some kind of war tax. It’s the kind of thing that could actually speed up the collapse of their whole union.
Nicole James Nicole James Regular
313 messages
joined Dec 2010
#9339 ·
Dennis Price said:I honestly hope the Russians introduce some kind of war tax. It’s the kind of thing that could actually speed up the collapse of their whole union.

My take? I think they’ll probably lean toward "voluntary" contributions through war bonds instead.
electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#9340 ·
Nicole James said:My take? I think they’ll probably lean toward "voluntary" contributions through war bonds instead.

Yeah, that's pretty likely. But when they say "voluntary" in Russia, it basically means if you don't chip in, you'll be first in line for the front lines.

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