Holy Spirit and Kundalini: Are they the same thing?

Pleasure is a hymn to freedom,
But it isn't freedom itself.
It’s the blossoming of your desires,
Yet it isn't their fruit.
It is the depth that calls toward the heights,
But it is neither depth nor height.
It is the prisoner who takes up wings,
But it isn't the space that holds him.
Yes, truly—pleasure is a hymn to freedom.
And I would love for you to sing it with all your heart; just don't lose your heart in the singing.

Kahlil Gibran

Paul Rogers94 said:Pleasure is a hymn to freedom,
But it isn't freedom itself.
It’s the blossoming of your desires,
Yet it isn't their fruit.
It is the depth that calls toward the heights,
But it is neither depth nor height.
It is the prisoner who takes up wings,
But it isn't the space that holds him.
Yes, truly—pleasure is a hymn to freedom.
And I would love for you to sing it with all your heart; just don't lose your heart in the singing.

Kahlil Gibran

Alright, I think I might need a bit of an explanation here.

I was just reading through this:

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Classi...9576996&sr=8-3

At one specific moment, I felt this sudden flash of pure insight. I was looking at the formula regarding the velocity dependence of a particle with mass within an electromagnetic field—basically, how it changes based on the particle's charge. It’s really just a straightforward formula (m*dv/dt=q(E+vXB), something pretty standard that most people pick up by the end of high school or early college. But, because it's expressed here in vector form (using bold notation), it offers a much more powerful way to handle mathematical analysis. Anyway, out of nowhere, this intense visualization of the formula just hit me; I saw it right there in Euclidean three-dimensional space (to keep things simple, just our everyday space without any relativistic effects), and I saw it as if it were physically sitting right next to me, almost as if I could reach out and touch it. My goodness!!!

Could someone please explain, is this what people mean when they talk about having a "pure mind"?

I realize I probably sound like I've completely lost my marbles, but I truly, honestly saw it!!!

So, I decided to spend some time playing my music just to clear my head and find some center... and honestly, it’s been incredible because I’ve started experiencing these intense visual connections and patterns while I play. It is all just so deeply fascinating!

However, I feel as though the Spirit has whispered to me once again, suggesting that I should take a little break from writing and following the discussions here on the forum, so I think I’m going to honor that guidance. I suppose when the Spirit whispers for me to return, that’s when I’ll be back.

Peace 🙂

Brian Young76 said:Alright, I think I might need a bit of an explanation here.

I was just reading through this:

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Classi...9576996&sr=8-3

At one specific moment, I felt this sudden flash of pure insight. I was looking at the formula regarding the velocity dependence of a particle with mass within an electromagnetic field—basically, how it changes based on the particle's charge. It’s really just a straightforward formula (m*dv/dt=q(E+vXB), something pretty standard that most people pick up by the end of high school or early college. But, because it's expressed here in vector form (using bold notation), it offers a much more powerful way to handle mathematical analysis. Anyway, out of nowhere, this intense visualization of the formula just hit me; I saw it right there in Euclidean three-dimensional space (to keep things simple, just our everyday space without any relativistic effects), and I saw it as if it were physically sitting right next to me, almost as if I could reach out and touch it. My goodness!!!

Could someone please explain, is this what people mean when they talk about having a "pure mind"?

I realize I probably sound like I've completely lost my marbles, but I truly, honestly saw it!!!

I don't think you're crazy, but honestly? What you're looking for doesn't fit into any space, any dimension, or even a mathematical concept.

Put me in a Zen circle and we'll be speaking the same language perfectly... but if you try to throw some basic math formula at me, it's useless. I'm completely hopeless when it comes to numbers.

Everyone on a spiritual path has their own thing—their own specific gift or siddhi. You have yours. If your intuition tells you to follow it, then go for it—whether it's through math or sound frequencies, there's barely a difference. Even Bach composed his music based on mathematical principles.

As for trying to study spirituality using the scientific method, I love quoting that old provocateur Crowley, who once quipped something along these lines:

Attempting to analyze spirituality through a scientific lens would be like a professional geographer trying to provide a technical analysis of Gulliver's travels.

Brian Young76 said:So, I decided to spend some time playing my music just to clear my head and find some center... and honestly, it’s been incredible because I’ve started experiencing these intense visual connections and patterns while I play. It is all just so deeply fascinating!

However, I feel as though the Spirit has whispered to me once again, suggesting that I should take a little break from writing and following the discussions here on the forum, so I think I’m going to honor that guidance. I suppose when the Spirit whispers for me to return, that’s when I’ll be back.

Peace 🙂

Catch you all on December 21st, 2021? 😁

Joseph Bailey41 said:Catch you all on December 21st, 2021? 😁

I just wanted to check in for a moment.

For the last three days, I’ve been receiving these internal messages, almost like prompts, about how to express God through mathematical notation. It isn't even that I'm actively seeking this out, or forcing myself to focus on it, or even dwelling on my own ego—though, I suppose, at one point the sheer implication of what this might mean flashed through my mind for a second... it's just that these messages seem to arrive on their own. I've started writing things down, so I guess we'll just have to see where this leads, though I suspect the whole process is going to take a little bit longer than expected. 😁

Yesterday, I had this sudden, spontaneous urge to make an excuse to my family, acting as if I were just stepping out for a quick pack of cigarettes, when really, there was something else weighing on me. 😬

What was that term again? Tatamata? Tathagata? 🤷 😁

Brian Young76 said:I just wanted to check in for a moment.

For the last three days, I’ve been receiving these internal messages, almost like prompts, about how to express God through mathematical notation. It isn't even that I'm actively seeking this out, or forcing myself to focus on it, or even dwelling on my own ego—though, I suppose, at one point the sheer implication of what this might mean flashed through my mind for a second... it's just that these messages seem to arrive on their own. I've started writing things down, so I guess we'll just have to see where this leads, though I suspect the whole process is going to take a little bit longer than expected. 😁

Yesterday, I had this sudden, spontaneous urge to make an excuse to my family, acting as if I were just stepping out for a quick pack of cigarettes, when really, there was something else weighing on me. 😬

What was that term again? Tatamata? Tathagata? 🤷 😁

It feels to me like the source of those messages might be stuck in the 19th century 😁 and hasn't quite caught up with the modern work of the legendary mathematician Kurt Gödel, who actually provided a mathematical proof for the existence of God. 😲

So, don't waste your time trying to reinvent the wheel here. 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof

Here is that proof—once you look at it, everything should become pretty clear. 😁

Brian Young76 said:I just wanted to check in for a moment.

For the last three days, I’ve been receiving these internal messages, almost like prompts, about how to express God through mathematical notation. It isn't even that I'm actively seeking this out, or forcing myself to focus on it, or even dwelling on my own ego—though, I suppose, at one point the sheer implication of what this might mean flashed through my mind for a second... it's just that these messages seem to arrive on their own. I've started writing things down, so I guess we'll just have to see where this leads, though I suspect the whole process is going to take a little bit longer than expected. 😁

Yesterday, I had this sudden, spontaneous urge to make an excuse to my family, acting as if I were just stepping out for a quick pack of cigarettes, when really, there was something else weighing on me. 😬

What was that term again? Tatamata? Tathagata? 🤷 😁

I don't follow.

hiddenpuma75 said:It feels to me like the source of those messages might be stuck in the 19th century 😁 and hasn't quite caught up with the modern work of the legendary mathematician Kurt Gödel, who actually provided a mathematical proof for the existence of God. 😲

So, don't waste your time trying to reinvent the wheel here. 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof

Here is that proof—once you look at it, everything should become pretty clear. 😁

I suppose we shouldn't look at this as some sort of mathematical "proof" intended to demonstrate that God exists. Rather, I feel it might be more accurate to view it as a physical equation—a formula that actually defines the properties of God. It’s a bit like how Schrödinger's equation describes the specific characteristics of an electron, which, of course, can be verified through experimental testing. In a similar vein, I imagine one could theoretically test this formula experimentally as well, though I suspect the initial step—actually calculating those specific properties from the equation itself—might turn out to be quite a daunting task, if not outright difficult. 😬And then, I suppose, we would eventually have to go through the grueling process of actually proving whether it’s true or not.

I wonder if anyone else has ever sat down to actually write something like this out? 🙂

Joseph Bailey41 said:I don't follow.

What does tatamata actually mean? Is it some kind of joke?

Brian Young76 said:What does tatamata actually mean? Is it some kind of joke?

It’s basically just a way of saying someone is an expert in their field, sort of like jargon.

Joseph Bailey41 said:It’s basically just a way of saying someone is an expert in their field, sort of like jargon.

And what about a Tathagata?

Hint: maybe they just stepped out to grab a pack of Marlboros😬

Brian Young76 said:And what about a Tathagata?

Hint: maybe they just stepped out to grab a pack of Marlboros😬

The one who walked away like that. I really hope he grabbed his wallet on the way out.

Paul Rogers94 said:I don't think you're crazy, but honestly? What you're looking for doesn't fit into any space, any dimension, or even a mathematical concept.

Put me in a Zen circle and we'll be speaking the same language perfectly... but if you try to throw some basic math formula at me, it's useless. I'm completely hopeless when it comes to numbers.

Everyone on a spiritual path has their own thing—their own specific gift or siddhi. You have yours. If your intuition tells you to follow it, then go for it—whether it's through math or sound frequencies, there's barely a difference. Even Bach composed his music based on mathematical principles.

As for trying to study spirituality using the scientific method, I love quoting that old provocateur Crowley, who once quipped something along these lines:

Attempting to analyze spirituality through a scientific lens would be like a professional geographer trying to provide a technical analysis of Gulliver's travels.

I think you're making one fundamental logical error here. You seem to believe that if you haven't had a personal experience with something, then it isn't real and doesn't exist.

The truth is, you haven't personally experienced the merging of science and spirituality, nor have you explored spirituality through experimental scientific methods. That’s fine, I guess, but that doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exist. 😉

Actually, even someone like Stephen Hawking fell into that same basic logical trap. In his final book, he wrote about his belief that God does not exist. It seems to me that simply because he lacked a personal experience of knowing God, he concluded that God wasn't there. It’s quite fascinating, really, how one of the greatest intellects in physics could make such a foundational error in logical reasoning.

What I find even more compelling is how essentially the entire scientific community decided to just ignore Ramanujan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan)—not in terms of his actual theorems, but in terms of his methodology. Without any formal education, this man simply prayed to God (well, his own version of God, regardless), and hundreds or even thousands of mathematical formulas and theorems were revealed to him. He received completed solutions—these theorems—but without the proofs, which was unacceptable to the scientific establishment (and still is). He passed away a century ago, and over the last hundred years, as much of the scientific community has worked to prove his theorems, it turns out that practically everything God showed him through those formulas was correct.

And I wonder, did no one in that scientific community ever stop to ask themselves—could it be that this is actually a valid way for people to engage with science in a methodological sense? Should we perhaps formalize this in our curricula and subjects—not just memorizing formulas from old textbooks (though I suppose that has its place), but actively seeking inspiration for future formulas? You pray to God and seek inspiration (the arrival of the Holy Spirit) and you receive finished solutions. Okay, after that, you would then need to verify that solution and confirm it experimentally, assuming it falls within the natural sciences. But, if one man who prayed (Ramanujan), through divine inspiration, produced more theorems than practically the entire scientific establishment that didn't pray, isn't that a pretty clear indication?

Brian Young76 said:I think you're making one fundamental logical error here. You seem to believe that if you haven't had a personal experience with something, then it isn't real and doesn't exist.

The truth is, you haven't personally experienced the merging of science and spirituality, nor have you explored spirituality through experimental scientific methods. That’s fine, I guess, but that doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exist. 😉

Actually, even someone like Stephen Hawking fell into that same basic logical trap. In his final book, he wrote about his belief that God does not exist. It seems to me that simply because he lacked a personal experience of knowing God, he concluded that God wasn't there. It’s quite fascinating, really, how one of the greatest intellects in physics could make such a foundational error in logical reasoning.

What I find even more compelling is how essentially the entire scientific community decided to just ignore Ramanujan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan)—not in terms of his actual theorems, but in terms of his methodology. Without any formal education, this man simply prayed to God (well, his own version of God, regardless), and hundreds or even thousands of mathematical formulas and theorems were revealed to him. He received completed solutions—these theorems—but without the proofs, which was unacceptable to the scientific establishment (and still is). He passed away a century ago, and over the last hundred years, as much of the scientific community has worked to prove his theorems, it turns out that practically everything God showed him through those formulas was correct.

And I wonder, did no one in that scientific community ever stop to ask themselves—could it be that this is actually a valid way for people to engage with science in a methodological sense? Should we perhaps formalize this in our curricula and subjects—not just memorizing formulas from old textbooks (though I suppose that has its place), but actively seeking inspiration for future formulas? You pray to God and seek inspiration (the arrival of the Holy Spirit) and you receive finished solutions. Okay, after that, you would then need to verify that solution and confirm it experimentally, assuming it falls within the natural sciences. But, if one man who prayed (Ramanujan), through divine inspiration, produced more theorems than practically the entire scientific establishment that didn't pray, isn't that a pretty clear indication?

This is the same hurdle that gifted students run into back in grade school. The teacher always asks: "Well, where is your work shown?" 😁

As for inspiration, in its current state, it either comes or it doesn't. You can pray, meditate, take psychedelics, or call upon the muses... but they’ll only show up if they feel like it.

Joseph Bailey41 said:This is the same hurdle that gifted students run into back in grade school. The teacher always asks: "Well, where is your work shown?" 😁

As for inspiration, in its current state, it either comes or it doesn't. You can pray, meditate, take psychedelics, or call upon the muses... but they’ll only show up if they feel like it.

Perhaps, just perhaps, I might develop—or maybe I already have—some kind of methodological approach to actually triggering inspiration. I’m currently trying to mentally deconstruct exactly what I did to trigger this current experience, looking for the specific causes and their subsequent effects; I haven't quite wrapped my head around everything yet, but things are starting to become a bit clearer 🙂

Brian Young76 said:Perhaps, just perhaps, I might develop—or maybe I already have—some kind of methodological approach to actually triggering inspiration. I’m currently trying to mentally deconstruct exactly what I did to trigger this current experience, looking for the specific causes and their subsequent effects; I haven't quite wrapped my head around everything yet, but things are starting to become a bit clearer 🙂

At that stage, cause and effect don't really exist; things aren't moving in a straight line anymore. If you haven't already, look into "synchronicity."

Joseph Bailey41 said:At that stage, cause and effect don't really exist; things aren't moving in a straight line anymore. If you haven't already, look into "synchronicity."

Oh, so what you're telling me is that I ought to be utilizing non-linear differential equations? Well, why didn't I think of that! Honestly, it’s almost as if it never occurred to me before!!! 😬

Brian Young76 said:Oh, so what you're telling me is that I ought to be utilizing non-linear differential equations? Well, why didn't I think of that! Honestly, it’s almost as if it never occurred to me before!!! 😬

Give it a shot and let me know how it goes. 👍

Brian Young76 said:I just wrapped up my workout this morning, and I have to say, I found myself sticking to the exact same routine I followed yesterday.

I feel like I really need to post the text of this exercise here, and since it was originally written in English, I’m hesitant to try translating it myself because I’m worried I won't be able to preserve the intended impact. If you haven't seen them already, I suppose the results of my training sessions have been shared in some of my previous posts within this thread.

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I have often found myself reflecting on the profound nature of consciousness, and I sometimes find that my thoughts drift toward the idea that God is essentially the very Mind through which I process existence. It is perhaps a bit of an abstract way to put it, but I suppose there is a certain sincerity in suggesting that the divine isn't just some distant entity watching from above, but rather the fundamental cognitive framework—the very essence of thought itself—that allows me to perceive and reason. I guess it’s more of a deeply personal, internal connection than anything else, though I realize how much that might challenge traditional views held by many Americans. Still, I feel quite strongly that if we are to truly understand the spiritual, we might have to look inward at the mechanics of our own awareness.

I have been reflecting on today's concept, and I truly believe it serves as a vital window into the core of your actual perceptions. It seems to me—and please correct me if I'm wrong here—that there is almost no connection between what we imagine our thoughts to be and what those thoughts actually represent in their purest form. It's a bit disorienting, I suppose, to realize that what we perceive as our inner monologue might bear absolutely no resemblance to our true cognitive essence. In much the same way, I suspect that what we believe we are seeing through our eyes isn't really an accurate reflection of sight itself. It feels as though there is this profound, perhaps even overwhelming, disconnect between the reality of our internal experiences and the filtered versions we mistakenly claim to understand.

Perhaps we might consider the idea that we are essentially thinking with the Mind of God itself. If that’s true—and I suppose it must be—then it follows that we are constantly sharing our deepest reflections with Him, just as He is perpetually sharing His with us. It seems to me that these thoughts are actually one and the same, simply because they originate from that single, unified Mind. When we talk about "sharing," maybe what we really mean is the act of becoming similar, or even becoming one. I would also venture to suggest that these divine thoughts never truly depart from our own consciousness, since a thought can't really ever leave its original source, right? So, in a very real sense, our thoughts exist within the Mind of God, just as we ourselves exist there. And since we are an integral part of His Mind, it feels only natural that our thoughts are an inseparable part of His as well.

So, where exactly do your true, unvarnished thoughts reside? I suppose today we ought to make an honest attempt to actually locate them. It feels like we’ll have to go searching deep within the recesses of your own mind, simply because that is the only place they could possibly be. I imagine they must still be tucked away in there somewhere, given that it seems impossible for them to have ever truly departed from their primary source. After all, if we consider that what is conceived by the Divine Mind is eternal—existing as an intrinsic part of the very fabric of creation itself—then those thoughts are surely still waiting to be found.

For our three five-minute practice sessions scheduled for today, I think we should probably follow a similar structure to the approach we took when we were working through yesterday’s concept. My intention, if I can express it clearly, is that we might attempt to step away from everything that feels superficial or illusory in order to search for what is truly substantial. It seems to me that we ought to set aside the distractions of the material world in favor of seeking out the actual truth. I suppose we shouldn't allow the noisy, frantic thoughts of the outside world to impede our progress, nor should we let the prevailing beliefs of society convince us that following a divine path is somehow an impossible feat. Rather, I feel it might be more helpful to try and recognize the possibility that perhaps only what is aligned with the Divine is actually achievable at all.

I suppose we should also strive to grasp the idea that our true desires will eventually align perfectly with what God intends for us to accomplish. It feels like a necessary realization, though perhaps a difficult one to hold onto at times. Along those same lines, I think it’s important for us to remember that if we are truly walking the path He has laid out, failure isn't really an option in the way we typically perceive it. There is, I believe, every possible reason to approach today with a sense of quiet confidence and steady resolve, simply because we are moving in accordance with His Will.

To begin today's exercises, I find it helpful to start by simply repeating the core concept to myself, perhaps even closing my eyes to really settle into it. Once that's done, I suggest spending a brief moment just letting your own mind wander around the subject; I mean, try to cultivate a few of your own related reflections while keeping that central idea firmly at the forefront of your consciousness. After you feel like you've woven about four or five of those personal observations into the fabric of the thought, go ahead and repeat the idea once more, perhaps adding a gentle, quiet affirmation to yourself as you finish.

I often find myself feeling as though my true, unvarnished thoughts are drifting somewhere just out of reach, tucked away in the quietest corners of my own mind. It’s a strange sensation, isn't it? I suppose I have this deep, persistent longing to actually track them down—to truly locate and understand those genuine reflections that seem to elude me whenever I try to grasp them. I guess I am searching for a way to bridge that gap between what I feel internally and what I can actually articulate.

Perhaps if you could just attempt to push past those fleeting, superficial distractions that tend to cloud your inner perception—those illusions that seem to shroud the actual truth within your own mind—you might finally be able to reach for something truly eternal.

Beneath all those chaotic, frantic impulses and the sheer clutter of irrationality we tend to pile into our minds, I suspect there exists a deeper layer—the primordial truths we once shared with the Divine at the very start of everything. Even now, amidst the noise, I believe those foundational thoughts remain tucked away within us, entirely untouched by the passing years. It seems to me that while every fleeting opinion or wandering idea we’ve ever had will inevitably shift and fade, that core bedrock upon which our entire existence is built remains absolutely, beautifully constant.

Everything we’ve been working toward leads directly to this specific Foundation. In these exercises, you aren't just meditating alone; you are essentially merging your own consciousness with the Divine Mind. Your very thoughts begin to align and flow as one with His. I suppose if there is one thing you truly need to keep in mind to make this work, it’s this: you ought to approach this practice with the same profound reverence you would show when standing before a sacred altar in a great cathedral. That is the spiritual altitude you are aiming for. To be honest, you might not even fully grasp just how incredibly high you are attempting to climb right now. But, even with the modest understanding you’ve managed to gather so far, I really think you should remind yourself that this isn't some trivial pastime or a casual mental game. This is a serious pursuit of holiness—a genuine, heartfelt attempt to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

During those brief windows when you manage to squeeze in a workout or a quick break today, I think it might be helpful to hold onto this one specific intention: please, try to remember just how profoundly sacred your own mind truly is—specifically, that incredible capacity to think in alignment with the Divine. If you can find even just a minute or two throughout your day, perhaps while you're repeating this thought to yourself, I would encourage you to really sit with that realization and appreciate the inherent holiness within your own consciousness. It might be worth trying to step back, even if only for a fleeting moment, from any stray or unworthy thoughts that don't quite honor the One you serve. And, if it feels right, maybe take a second to simply offer up a word of thanks for the higher thoughts He is inviting you to share in.
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Could you have mentioned this was Lesson 45? 😵

It’s an interesting line, and one I actually quite like (it serves as proof that ACIM leans more toward New Age philosophy rather than being a strictly "Abrahamic religious" text):

"God's will for me is perfect happiness.
This is the truth, because there is no sin"
(Lesson 101)
👍