Where is spirituality taking us? Is it getting dangerous?

Spirituality can be a dangerous trap if you’re just using it as an escape hatch from real-world problems instead of actually dealing with them head-on using practical methods. It gets even sketchier when someone starts using it as an excuse to isolate themselves from everyone else. At that point, you aren't finding peace—you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

Paul Rogers94 said:I actually spent most of my day reading some debate on this topic (the rest was spent trolling both Christians and anti-Christians on the forums), and your questions hit right on the pulse of those ideas. To avoid spamming you with quotes, if you're interested, there's a PDF by Ramesh Balsekar titled No More Confusion for Spiritual Seekers (check out chapter Sin and Guilt starting on page 16)
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If only that learned priest would remember that no human being has the capacity to grasp the mechanics behind how God's will operates. If he could just recall that God didn't conjure this entire universe solely for the benefit of His beloved human children, he wouldn't be throwing around so many assertions with the misplaced confidence of God's personal secretary or best friend. The priest's statements give the impression he's forgotten that God created a universe that doesn't just consist of one type of object called a "human being," but thousands of other species and objects that all work together to form the totality of the manifested world!

The whole issue of sin and guilt only arises from the assumption that human will is what's acting, rather than God's. If someone fully, unconditionally accepts the phrase "Thy will be done" and does exactly what their programming dictates—without any sense of personal agency—then the concepts of sin or merit simply cannot emerge. And that is precisely it: if someone is able to participate in life and accept everything that happens as God's will in the moment—whether it's pleasure or pain, joy or misery, success or failure—that is self-realization. In that state, the sage participates in life without any burden of sin or guilt weighing down their mind.

God's will is for everyone to get a better deal than they actually deserve—that's where He steps in.

David Vaughn75 said:God's will is for everyone to get a better deal than they actually deserve—that's where He steps in.

Where on earth did you get the idea that you know what God's will is? What, are you having private chats with God or something?

And honestly, what does "getting more than you deserve" even mean? Like, is life better for people living in extreme poverty in sub-Saharan Africa because God decides to intervene there?

Paul Rogers94 said:It isn’t about defining "spirituality"—it’s about your arrogance, your ego, and your sheer, unadulterated nastiness. People have tried to subtly tell you to take your preaching somewhere else more than once, but you clearly don't give a damn; you just keep shoving your garbage down everyone's throats without an ounce of consideration. Honestly, religious groups wouldn't want you there for that exact reason. Go find a therapist or something... You belong to the most sniveling, bottom-of-the-barrel type of people—you and your opponents are one and the same, just feeding off each other. And frankly, nobody gives a damn about atheists or their preaching of some idiotic ideology either. Both sides are just equally delusional and pathetic.

You always have the option to just not read.
There will always be someone on this forum who actually wants to read what I have to say.
And trust me, they'll find my posts way more useful than yours.

Andrew Gomez6 said:Spirituality can be a dangerous trap if you’re just using it as an escape hatch from real-world problems instead of actually dealing with them head-on using practical methods. It gets even sketchier when someone starts using it as an excuse to isolate themselves from everyone else. At that point, you aren't finding peace—you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

What kind of "practical means" are we talking about here?
And what do you mean by being "isolated"?

Andrew Gomez6 said:Spirituality can be a dangerous trap if you’re just using it as an escape hatch from real-world problems instead of actually dealing with them head-on using practical methods. It gets even sketchier when someone starts using it as an excuse to isolate themselves from everyone else. At that point, you aren't finding peace—you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

But why can't you be spiritual while also dealing with life's practical issues?
To you, spirituality seems like a way to run away from reality. I know people who have lived relatively easy lives and stayed faithful, and others who were hit with massive hardships that drove them straight toward God.
Some believers were thrown into concentration camps and came out atheists—thinking that if God truly existed, He never would have allowed such horrors.
On the flip side, some non-believers went through those same camps and emerged with a profound, unshakable faith.
So, maybe don't be so quick to judge.

http://www.skripta.info/viktor-frank...-pdf-download/

Zachary Cox69 said:But why can't you be spiritual while also dealing with life's practical issues?
To you, spirituality seems like a way to run away from reality. I know people who have lived relatively easy lives and stayed faithful, and others who were hit with massive hardships that drove them straight toward God.
Some believers were thrown into concentration camps and came out atheists—thinking that if God truly existed, He never would have allowed such horrors.
On the flip side, some non-believers went through those same camps and emerged with a profound, unshakable faith.
So, maybe don't be so quick to judge.

http://www.skripta.info/viktor-frank...-pdf-download/

Look, trauma does weird things to people. For some, it’s a massive wake-up call that opens their eyes; for others, it just sends them spiraling back into old patterns. It’s nothing new.

Zachary Cox69 said:But why can't you be spiritual while also dealing with life's practical issues?
To you, spirituality seems like a way to run away from reality. I know people who have lived relatively easy lives and stayed faithful, and others who were hit with massive hardships that drove them straight toward God.
Some believers were thrown into concentration camps and came out atheists—thinking that if God truly existed, He never would have allowed such horrors.
On the flip side, some non-believers went through those same camps and emerged with a profound, unshakable faith.
So, maybe don't be so quick to judge.

http://www.skripta.info/viktor-frank...-pdf-download/

In a way, it's always an escape—it's more like it's necessary... unless we're talking about religion.
Everything has its pros and cons—it's all pretty relative.

Thomas Nelson25 said:In a way, it's always an escape—it's more like it's necessary... unless we're talking about religion.
Everything has its pros and cons—it's all pretty relative.

Here’s an example of how hitting rock bottom can actually push someone toward spirituality—toward God.
The guy went through his own version of hell in Warsaw, miraculously surviving execution at the farm, then dealing with Walmart and those Mexican camps.
And what’s most striking—he doesn't carry any hatred toward the Mexicans who put him through all that misery.

Zachary Cox69 said:Here’s an example of how hitting rock bottom can actually push someone toward spirituality—toward God.
The guy went through his own version of hell in Warsaw, miraculously surviving execution at the farm, then dealing with Walmart and those Mexican camps.
And what’s most striking—he doesn't carry any hatred toward the Mexicans who put him through all that misery.

Fair enough. I get what you're saying, but I'm gonna pass on watching it.

So you're talking about levels of religiosity... basically finding ways to weave faith into everyday life.

Esotericism? Not really my thing... that's more about walking that thin line between existence and nothingness.

Zachary Cox69 said:Here’s an example of how hitting rock bottom can actually push someone toward spirituality—toward God.
The guy went through his own version of hell in Warsaw, miraculously surviving execution at the farm, then dealing with Walmart and those Mexican camps.
And what’s most striking—he doesn't carry any hatred toward the Mexicans who put him through all that misery.

Then, right after the war, acting like the ultimate "devout" guy, he pulls a total scam and claws 30 million out of Medicare just to pay off some debt to his best man. A regular Catholic saint, isn't he?

goldenjackal6 said:Then, right after the war, acting like the ultimate "devout" guy, he pulls a total scam and claws 30 million out of Medicare just to pay off some debt to his best man. A regular Catholic saint, isn't he?

It’s not like you know him personally.
He shot a loan shark who was trying to squeeze him for a hundred times what he actually owed.
The guy shot him because the lender showed him a photo of his kids—he had four back then—and said, "Pick which lamb gets slaughtered."
So, it was an ultimatum: give me the cash (and a massive markup) or I kill your kid. What kind of father just stands by while someone threatens his child?
And honestly, the whole thing about him swindling $30 million from Medicare sounds like a lie. It's not like Medicare hands out millions like candy.
It's wild how far people will go to twist the truth. This man was a good person.

Zachary Cox69 said:It’s not like you know him personally.
He shot a loan shark who was trying to squeeze him for a hundred times what he actually owed.
The guy shot him because the lender showed him a photo of his kids—he had four back then—and said, "Pick which lamb gets slaughtered."
So, it was an ultimatum: give me the cash (and a massive markup) or I kill your kid. What kind of father just stands by while someone threatens his child?
And honestly, the whole thing about him swindling $30 million from Medicare sounds like a lie. It's not like Medicare hands out millions like candy.
It's wild how far people will go to twist the truth. This man was a good person.

"It didn't happen"—yeah, just like how the Nazis used to deny the Holocaust.

He murdered the guy he owed money to, period. This whole "loan shark" narrative is purely his version of events. There isn't another side to the story because the other side is dead.
It’s not even a lie that he was milking Medicare; he testified under oath in court about exactly how he did it and who he did it with.

Yeah, you’re a perfect example of pure evil. You're trying to turn a criminal into a saint just because you're obsessed with some Jesus mantra.

Zachary Cox69 said:But why can't you be spiritual while also dealing with life's practical issues?
To you, spirituality seems like a way to run away from reality. I know people who have lived relatively easy lives and stayed faithful, and others who were hit with massive hardships that drove them straight toward God.
Some believers were thrown into concentration camps and came out atheists—thinking that if God truly existed, He never would have allowed such horrors.
On the flip side, some non-believers went through those same camps and emerged with a profound, unshakable faith.
So, maybe don't be so quick to judge.

http://www.skripta.info/viktor-frank...-pdf-download/

My bad, I was in a pretty rough headspace when I originally posted that (I'd stepped off my psychiatric meds, and now I'm back on them). You've got a point here; sometimes spirituality can actually help someone excel in their everyday life. Think about it—so many elite athletes practice Buddhist meditation or yoga, and you see countless football players praying or making the sign of the cross right before taking a penalty kick...

goldenjackal6 said:"It didn't happen"—yeah, just like how the Nazis used to deny the Holocaust.

He murdered the guy he owed money to, period. This whole "loan shark" narrative is purely his version of events. There isn't another side to the story because the other side is dead.
It’s not even a lie that he was milking Medicare; he testified under oath in court about exactly how he did it and who he did it with.

Yeah, you’re a perfect example of pure evil. You're trying to turn a criminal into a saint just because you're obsessed with some Jesus mantra.

I'm talking about Carver right now, not what happened back then.
Unlike you, I actually believe people can change—that they can own up to their sins, admit their mistakes, and start over.
You claim it's "his side of the story," but how can you be so sure he's lying?
When a guy loses his business and finds himself drowning in debt to everyone he knows, he's capable of pulling money from systems illegally just to survive. He wasn't much of a believer back then—it was all surface-level stuff.
He's a different man now.

Religion has always been nothing more than a lever used to socially reset a world full of naive people.

bluemason3 said:Religion has always been nothing more than a lever used to socially reset a world full of naive people.

That’s a spot-on Marxist diagnosis right there.

Zachary Cox69 said:That’s a spot-on Marxist diagnosis right there.

And honestly, it could be communism. It's easy for a clever opportunist to hide behind any ideology that happens to be dominating society at the time.

Zachary Cox69 said:I'm talking about Carver right now, not what happened back then.
Unlike you, I actually believe people can change—that they can own up to their sins, admit their mistakes, and start over.
You claim it's "his side of the story," but how can you be so sure he's lying?
When a guy loses his business and finds himself drowning in debt to everyone he knows, he's capable of pulling money from systems illegally just to survive. He wasn't much of a believer back then—it was all surface-level stuff.
He's a different man now.

Sure, people can change, but that isn't some mystical act of faith—it’s about making actual, conscious choices.

Religion makes it way too easy to get social absolution because, let's be honest, it functions like group therapy for folks who need a daily fix of self-delusion.

"I believe I'm a good person, so I must be a good person."
>literally embezzles taxpayer money and kills someone
"But I'm a saint because Jesus wills it."

That's basically what faith boils down to.

Zachary Cox69 said:But why can't you be spiritual while also dealing with life's practical issues?
To you, spirituality seems like a way to run away from reality. I know people who have lived relatively easy lives and stayed faithful, and others who were hit with massive hardships that drove them straight toward God.
Some believers were thrown into concentration camps and came out atheists—thinking that if God truly existed, He never would have allowed such horrors.
On the flip side, some non-believers went through those same camps and emerged with a profound, unshakable faith.
So, maybe don't be so quick to judge.

http://www.skripta.info/viktor-frank...-pdf-download/

Well, that’s exactly what certain religions try to do all the time.
The struggle is that they try so hard to be "spiritual," yet they end up getting completely tangled up in secular affairs.

Eventually, they just drift into this weird middle ground where they become their own sole reason for existing..