Where is spirituality taking us? Is it getting dangerous?

Anthony Perez9 said:What’s the point of all these church dogmas about Jesus when it comes to spirituality?
There’s probably a subforum for this kind of stuff...

So he basically made them flawed just so they'd end up tumbling into hell.
What were they missing while standing right next to "God—aka true love, happiness, prosperity, and wisdom"?
Either it's some scabby God... or his creatures are just crazy. Take your pick.

"This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10);

Well, it does say he "sent his Son," since the Son begged the Father three times NOT to send him. (Columbus 12:7) 😂

"But God shows his love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

And look, he's still alive. So who's really doing who? (Columbus 12:7)

The Catechism of the Catholic Church covers this topic quite extensively in an entire chapter, so I'm sending you a link that I'm sure will be very useful: http://www.katolici.org/kaekizam.php...=r_vidi&id=237

A one-sided Catholic manifesto? For what?

Similarly, Professor John Karlić, in his article "Judgment and Death of Jesus of Nazareth," thoroughly examines the historical, social, and theological elements of Christ's death: hrcak.srce.hr/file/40376

He doesn't have anything to do with historians or actual science.

He began his studies in philosophy and theology at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. (for three years), and continued at the Pontifical Theological faculty (PFT) "St. Bonaventure" in Rome, where he graduated in theology in 1988. That same year, he enrolled in graduate studies at the same faculty (specializing in dogmatic theology/christology) and earned his Master of Theological Sciences degree.

So, just a blowhard with some church-issued (worthless) "degrees."

Crazy Damir

😵
Insane...

David Vaughn75 said:Look, God sets the rules and God judges based on those rules—so basically, God can bail me out of any penalty whenever He feels like it. I mean, if He's actually Almighty, why wouldn't He?

Whether Jesus exists or not doesn't change a single damn thing about that logic.

David Vaughn75 said:Yeah, that’s exactly where I hit the wall with this whole thing—it’s a massive contradiction.
If every single person who ever walked this earth has been sinning, then you have to face the fact that God designed us to be prone to it; our very nature today is fundamentally broken.

They love to preach about "free will" and how we choose to sin, but let's get real: a man dying of thirst is always going to reach for water. It’s not some grand moral choice—he’s just wired that way. He was designed to crave water when he's thirsty, plain and simple.

Zachary Cox69 said:But he doesn't drink water.
It’s like there were only two options: create robots or create people with free will.
So, He creates them and says, "You have everything, it's all great, just don't touch this one thing—you don't need it. If you touch it, it means you aren't listening to me or respecting me, and remember, I made you, so you exist because of me."

Or look at it this way—a father tells his son, "Son, I'm giving you everything, your whole life is thanks to me, please just stay away from drugs; they're bad, they're evil, and they'll kill you."
The kid ignores his father's advice anyway, does hard drugs, and dies at 19.
Is the father responsible for his death?

Or, a father tells his son: "Son, I've given you everything, you're alive because of me, please just stay away from drugs, it's bad, it's evil, it'll kill you."
But the kid ignores all that fatherly advice, starts doing crack, and ends up dead at 19.
Is the father responsible for his death?

David Vaughn75[/QUOTE]

The real question is why God would put the desire to disobey Him inside them in the first place.

Created the desire???
Look, if someone is a free being, they have to have their own desires—that’s just how it works.
It’s either you’re a robot or you’re a person.

I know for a fact I'll never abuse a child because it doesn't appeal to me, but pedophiles are built with an urge to commit those acts—and they suffer if they fight against their own nature.

There you go again with the robot talk. Desires are one thing, but pleasing God is another. Think of it this way—God is our Creator, our Father in a sense—so if He says "Don't do that," and I actually trust Him, I won't do it. People aren't "built" that way; God doesn't create garbage. They are morally twisted, driven by Satan to act out. If they actually cared about God—if they truly honor and value Him—they won't do those things.

A son turns to drugs because his life is a wreck, and it's a wreck because he didn't survive the temptation God placed before him.

A son uses drugs because he simply doesn't give a damn about God, his parents, or even himself. It’s a "whatever" attitude. There are plenty of addicts out there who grew up with great parents and total financial security, yet here we are—obsessing over the same old excuses.

A son didn't use his free will to choose being born in the middle of a war, in poverty, with physical disabilities, chronic illness, or a life of abuse where nobody loves him. God chose that path for him instead.

No son—not mine, not yours—is some kind of sacrifice for God. The world we live in is built by people, not by God. God is the absolute in heaven, part of eternal life, not down here. People do a lot of terrible things on this earth, and it has nothing to do with God or destiny.

Zachary Cox69 said:Created desires???
I mean, seriously, how can anyone exist without having their own personal desires if we're supposedly free beings?
It’s either you're a robot or you're a person. Period.

There you go again with this whole robot obsession. Look, having desires is one thing—pleasing God is a completely different ballgame. God is our Creator, right? He's basically our Father. So, if He says, "Hey, don't do that," and I actually trust Him, I'm not gonna do it. People aren't built that way—God doesn't create trash. These people are just moral disasters, driven by Satan to act out like this. If they actually gave a damn about God, if they truly honored and respected Him, they wouldn't be doing this stuff.

A son uses drugs because he simply doesn't give a damn about God, his parents, or even himself. It's just like, "Whatever, I don't care." Half the junkies out there had great parents and total financial security, yet they still choose to chase that high.

No son, whether he's yours or mine, is some kind of divine sacrifice. The world we live in? We made it, not God. God is the Absolute up in heaven, living in eternal life, not down here. Down here, people just do a lot of shitty things—it's got nothing to do with God or fate.

David Vaughn75 said:Alright, why don't you enlighten me then: where do these desires even come from, and who put them inside us in the first place?

A son uses drugs because he simply doesn't give a damn about God, his parents, or even himself. It's just like, "Whatever, I don't care." Half the junkies out there had great parents and total financial security, yet they still choose to chase that high.

Yeah, sure, he's using drugs *because* of God—what a random choice to just wreck your entire life for no reason at all.😵

No son, whether he's yours or mine, is some kind of divine sacrifice. The world we live in? We made it, not God. God is the Absolute up in heaven, living in eternal life, not down here. Down here, people just do a lot of shitty things—it's got nothing to do with God or fate.

God created one soul in a nice suburb in Connecticut, and another one in a war zone in Somalia.

God decided that one person would be born into a civilized, loving family, while someone else gets dropped right into the middle of a collapsed state in the middle of a war.

Zachary Cox69 said:What exactly is spirituality?
There’s this one Christian sect in the USA—though where else, really? Everywhere you look, people are selling some version of "spirituality"—where they catch venomous snakes with their bare hands. If you survive, you're considered spiritual. It's a bit like how the Sufi Order operates, too.
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a374471/D...avangarda.html
Or take this—people actually let themselves be crucified.
Between the whipping, the nailing to crosses, seeking "death," and barefoot pilgrimages... traditions across the world can get pretty wild and interesting.
CP
An Australian man and 29 Filipinos participated this year in a traditional wooden crucifixion on Good Friday in the Philippines, reenacting the death of Jesus.

In the town of Kapitangan, four men and one woman were "crucified," while another 25 men underwent the same process in the town of Cutud, according to international news outlets. These customs—which the Catholic Church doesn't support—are meant to "cleanse the souls" of those undergoing such painful rituals.

One guy holds the record with 23 crucifixions under his belt.

These rituals have been going on in Cutud for 54 years now, and this year, thousands of tourists flocked to the region just to watch those 25 men being "crucified." To become a "Christ"—which is what they call these people—you have to wait years, often sitting on long waiting lists. The record holder is 48-year-old Ruben Enaje, who has been crucified 23 times.

After the "crucifixion," every "Christ" is taken by doctors to have their wounds checked, while others step in to carry their crosses. Some critics argue that the whole thing has turned into little more than a tourist attraction—that the actual faith and redemption have been lost in the spectacle.
Or this. Honestly, it's no wonder so many rational people struggle to believe in God when they see stuff like this.
http://arhiva.dalje.com/foto.php?id=...41&idrf=495733

Zachary Cox69 said:What exactly is spirituality?
There’s this one Christian sect in the USA—though where else, really? Everywhere you look, people are selling some version of "spirituality"—where they catch venomous snakes with their bare hands. If you survive, you're considered spiritual. It's a bit like how the Sufi Order operates, too.
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a374471/D...avangarda.html
Or take this—people actually let themselves be crucified.
Between the whipping, the nailing to crosses, seeking "death," and barefoot pilgrimages... traditions across the world can get pretty wild and interesting.
CP
An Australian man and 29 Filipinos participated this year in a traditional wooden crucifixion on Good Friday in the Philippines, reenacting the death of Jesus.

In the town of Kapitangan, four men and one woman were "crucified," while another 25 men underwent the same process in the town of Cutud, according to international news outlets. These customs—which the Catholic Church doesn't support—are meant to "cleanse the souls" of those undergoing such painful rituals.

One guy holds the record with 23 crucifixions under his belt.

These rituals have been going on in Cutud for 54 years now, and this year, thousands of tourists flocked to the region just to watch those 25 men being "crucified." To become a "Christ"—which is what they call these people—you have to wait years, often sitting on long waiting lists. The record holder is 48-year-old Ruben Enaje, who has been crucified 23 times.

After the "crucifixion," every "Christ" is taken by doctors to have their wounds checked, while others step in to carry their crosses. Some critics argue that the whole thing has turned into little more than a tourist attraction—that the actual faith and redemption have been lost in the spectacle.
Or this. Honestly, it's no wonder so many rational people struggle to believe in God when they see stuff like this.
http://arhiva.dalje.com/foto.php?id=...41&idrf=495733

A These signs are just gonna follow anyone who actually believes.They’ll be casting out demons in my name. Bad actors everywhere.They'll start speaking in all these new languages soon enough. Snakes are always looking for an opening."If they drink anything poisonous, it won't hurt them; they’ll lay hands on the sick, and they'll be healed." After Jesus said that, He was taken up to heaven to sit at God's right hand.

Zachary Cox69 said:What exactly is spirituality?
There’s this one Christian sect in the USA—though where else, really? Everywhere you look, people are selling some version of "spirituality"—where they catch venomous snakes with their bare hands. If you survive, you're considered spiritual. It's a bit like how the Sufi Order operates, too.
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a374471/D...avangarda.html
Or take this—people actually let themselves be crucified.
Between the whipping, the nailing to crosses, seeking "death," and barefoot pilgrimages... traditions across the world can get pretty wild and interesting.
CP
An Australian man and 29 Filipinos participated this year in a traditional wooden crucifixion on Good Friday in the Philippines, reenacting the death of Jesus.

In the town of Kapitangan, four men and one woman were "crucified," while another 25 men underwent the same process in the town of Cutud, according to international news outlets. These customs—which the Catholic Church doesn't support—are meant to "cleanse the souls" of those undergoing such painful rituals.

One guy holds the record with 23 crucifixions under his belt.

These rituals have been going on in Cutud for 54 years now, and this year, thousands of tourists flocked to the region just to watch those 25 men being "crucified." To become a "Christ"—which is what they call these people—you have to wait years, often sitting on long waiting lists. The record holder is 48-year-old Ruben Enaje, who has been crucified 23 times.

After the "crucifixion," every "Christ" is taken by doctors to have their wounds checked, while others step in to carry their crosses. Some critics argue that the whole thing has turned into little more than a tourist attraction—that the actual faith and redemption have been lost in the spectacle.
Or this. Honestly, it's no wonder so many rational people struggle to believe in God when they see stuff like this.
http://arhiva.dalje.com/foto.php?id=...41&idrf=495733

Luke 14:27 If you aren't willing to carry your own cross, you're not going anywhere. There's no way someone like me could ever be their mentor.

Matthew 16:24 says that Jesus told His followers, "If anyone wants to follow me, they must deny themselves." He should just pick up his cross and get lost. Right behind me.
Whoever tries to save their own life is just gonna lose it. Who’s willing to throw their life away for me?He'll find him eventually.

Anthony Perez9 said:That's the way it is.

The universe is just chaotic. You can't have perfect justice where everyone gets the exact same deal all the time. If an asteroid hits us, that's just cosmic luck. We were handed this life without asking for it, so we don't really have a leg to stand on when complaining about "unfairness" or demanding we have the same life as someone living in total luxury.

Zachary Cox69 said:What exactly is spirituality?
There’s this one Christian sect in the USA—though where else, really? Everywhere you look, people are selling some version of "spirituality"—where they catch venomous snakes with their bare hands. If you survive, you're considered spiritual. It's a bit like how the Sufi Order operates, too.
http://rs.n1info.com/Vesti/a374471/D...avangarda.html
Or take this—people actually let themselves be crucified.
Between the whipping, the nailing to crosses, seeking "death," and barefoot pilgrimages... traditions across the world can get pretty wild and interesting.
CP
An Australian man and 29 Filipinos participated this year in a traditional wooden crucifixion on Good Friday in the Philippines, reenacting the death of Jesus.

In the town of Kapitangan, four men and one woman were "crucified," while another 25 men underwent the same process in the town of Cutud, according to international news outlets. These customs—which the Catholic Church doesn't support—are meant to "cleanse the souls" of those undergoing such painful rituals.

One guy holds the record with 23 crucifixions under his belt.

These rituals have been going on in Cutud for 54 years now, and this year, thousands of tourists flocked to the region just to watch those 25 men being "crucified." To become a "Christ"—which is what they call these people—you have to wait years, often sitting on long waiting lists. The record holder is 48-year-old Ruben Enaje, who has been crucified 23 times.

After the "crucifixion," every "Christ" is taken by doctors to have their wounds checked, while others step in to carry their crosses. Some critics argue that the whole thing has turned into little more than a tourist attraction—that the actual faith and redemption have been lost in the spectacle.
Or this. Honestly, it's no wonder so many rational people struggle to believe in God when they see stuff like this.
http://arhiva.dalje.com/foto.php?id=...41&idrf=495733

Thomas Turner2 said:Since you seem intent on flooding the Spirituality board with religious topics... isn't it about time you gave a polite wave to the folks here who actually care about spirituality rather than religion? Maybe move over to the Religion board where you clearly belong. We’d all appreciate the breathing room. You'll find plenty of people who think just like you over there... you might actually feel at home.

hollowpuma762 said:If you actually want to find some semblance of spirituality, you’ll have to clear your head of all the idiotic garbage pumped out by the media first.

Zachary Cox69 said:So, what exactly is spirituality?
Look, if I’m a Christian and I believe in God, and I practice spirituality and being spiritual—what does that even mean?
Wikipedia
"Spirituality is a state of consciousness where a person commits to the development of their own spirit through religious devotion to God. The word itself comes from the Latin *spiritus*, meaning breath or spirit.[1] While the concept is closely tied to religion, it can also describe a mental state where a person turns their attention toward things beyond their immediate surroundings. For example, studying history or writing poetry can be non-religious forms of spirituality.

To be a spiritual person means prioritizing the eternal, the metaphysical, and the immaterial over the fleeting, the secular, and the material.

Spirituality is practiced through prayer, meditation, and living a moral life.

As a broad term, spirituality encompasses all human activities directed toward the immaterial, spiritual realm (most often of a religious nature), though it can also include artistic creation.

The element of the spiritual, as a core component of various philosophical views, finds the source and origin of all things in the transcendent and supreme. It is most prominent in the school of idealism and related spiritual movements that take supernatural reality as their primary starting point."

Silver Bear Quote

The real question is—why would God bake a desire to disobey Him right into them in the first place?

I’d never touch a child because that’s not my thing, but pedophiles are essentially born with an urge to exploit children—and they suffer if they don't act on those impulses.

A son turns to drugs because his life has fallen apart—and it fell apart because he failed a test God put in his path.

A son didn't choose through free will to be born in a war zone, living in poverty, dealing with physical disabilities or chronic illness, being abused, or having no one to love him. God chose that path for him.

wearyowl29 said:You’re conflating two different things here.

Spirituality isn't some fixed destination or a static level you reach; it’s a dynamic, moving process. Religion, on the other hand, is something people often adopt as an absolute truth and then just cling to it until they die, never actually evolving.

I was reading John O'Donohue's "Anam cara" the other day, and he uses this wonderful analogy of a massive house. He describes how religious folks tend to get stuck in the basement or maybe just the first floor. They spend their entire lives looking out from that single vantage point, seeing just one tiny spot in the garden, and they honestly believe they've mastered everything growing in that yard.
From that limited view, they think they have all the answers and try to lecture everyone else.

But then you have the people who actually put in the work to climb higher. They push themselves up to the upper floors, where the view opens up, giving them a much broader perception of reality.
And those rare few who make it all the way to the penthouse? They can see far beyond the boundaries of their own backyard.

Paul Rogers94 said:Religion hands you pre-packaged truths—it’s all about blind faith. Spirituality doesn't accept any "truth" unless you've personally verified it through constant questioning.

David Vaughn75 said:Yeah, that’s exactly where I hit the wall with this whole thing—it’s a massive contradiction.
If every single person who ever walked this earth has been sinning, then you have to face the fact that God designed us to be prone to it; our very nature today is fundamentally broken.

They love to preach about "free will" and how we choose to sin, but let's get real: a man dying of thirst is always going to reach for water. It’s not some grand moral choice—he’s just wired that way. He was designed to crave water when he's thirsty, plain and simple.