Conservative populism or just crypto-fascism?

Local nationalism feels pretty macho—it’s just loud, crude, and honestly, a bit verbally aggressive.

Fascism in the West is such a fluid thing—it’s more like a messy collage of contradictions than anything else.
Time is actually the most dangerous thing we deal with.
This is just 21st-century fascism, rebranded for social media. It’s got a whole new name now— I’ve been thinking a lot about the rise of conservative populism lately. It feels like we're seeing this massive shift in how people connect with leadership, moving away from the old establishment toward voices that feel more raw and direct. I remember watching my dad debate these exact issues around the dinner table years ago, and while the players have changed, that underlying feeling of being unheard seems to be driving everything right now..

The Germans, who bore the brunt of responsibility for creating and consolidating Nazism as a threat to global civilization, came to a realization after losing the war: modern nations don't grow by expanding their borders, but by increasing their depth and sophistication.
Right-wing nationalist parties over here—many of which have been banned in the past—are starting to gain traction again, mostly because people are losing patience with the current immigration crisis.

People today act way too much like they belong to some exclusive club or elite tribe. If that’s really how things have shifted, then our best defense against the rise of the far right might just be rediscovering what it means to value the collective community and actually committing to it again. As the writer Ishay Lando says...

The only thing that actually justifies a government's existence is its ability to administer justice. That’s what separates a legitimate state from just a bunch of organized criminals, according to Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis of Tagaste (modern-day Algeria).

Come on, don't be so afraid.
It’s never too late to start again, even if you feel like you've let your creative side slip away for a while.
You can actually rebuild and sharpen your creative muscles pretty easily just through consistent practice and training. The real key is simply believing that the ability to create is already sitting there inside you, waiting to be tapped.
That’s exactly where true individual freedom comes from—it's about not being forced to bow down to those conservative populists who just want everyone to think exactly like them so they can control everything.

The biggest culprit behind this mess—by far—is the left. Mostly over in the West and across Europe (and here in the States—look no further than the Democratic Party).

It isn’t just because they’re weak, or because they’ve lost every shred of their moral compass, or even because they’ve become the total antithesis of what they used to be. It’s simpler than that: they just abandoned the working class and rural folks to a pit of despair, leaving them wide open for the modern right to swoop in. They basically turned into corporate shills, chasing money that fuels the downfall of every blue-collar worker in Europe and America, and honestly, everyone else too. They've become nothing more than puppets for big corporate capital, which couldn't care less about destroying the environment, tearing apart families, or wrecking the very foundations of society...

And I say this as an atheist and a liberal-leftist at heart—though certainly not one of those pseudo-liberals the so-called "left" crawls alongside today. As it stands, there isn't a trace of a true left wing left.

So, we ended up with this paradox in the US where people like me have also thrown our support behind Trump. It’s simple: even though he's a conservative, he's a hell of a lot less of a fraud than what is perceived as the "left" in America.

If there is anything within you that drives you to support Trump, then you never belonged on the left to begin with. You belong in the trash heap alongside those gangrenous, failed ideas and the mainstream Left that you claim to despise so much.

It is as if you believe that garbage is your only alternative.

Furthermore, your suspicious stance on "destroying the family" is nothing more than code for refusing to acknowledge any family structure that doesn't fit your narrow-minded views.

Just stay under that MAGA hat and leave the issues of the left alone. 👋

cosmicgull52 said:If there is anything within you that drives you to support Trump, then you never belonged on the left to begin with. You belong in the trash heap alongside those gangrenous, failed ideas and the mainstream Left that you claim to despise so much.

It is as if you believe that garbage is your only alternative.

Furthermore, your suspicious stance on "destroying the family" is nothing more than code for refusing to acknowledge any family structure that doesn't fit your narrow-minded views.

Just stay under that MAGA hat and leave the issues of the left alone. 👋

I'd much rather not have even had to support Trump, because honestly, that feels unnatural to me. That’s why I called it a paradox; the fallout was obvious in 2016. He wouldn't have won if he just had the Republican base. It happened because so many people were fed up with Obama and his circle, while HRC was promising the same old stuff—or worse.

When Obama won in 2008, there was this sense of hope that things might finally change from what previous administrations did. But Obama let people down, and his "Hope" and "Change" became synonymous with lies. Even I was disappointed, along with plenty of voters in my swing state, Florida. The 2016 results could only have shocked hardcore Demse and HRC loyalists.

And look, as an American who lives through these daily real-world struggles with other Floridians and Americans, I know the situation better than someone getting everything through a news feed. Whether you like it or not, I hate to say it, but in 2016, America needed a completely different kind of leader. Someone vastly different from your favorite candidate.

cosmicgull52 - open your mind.

---

Anyway, let's not turn this into another Trump thread (since that isn't the point here)...

If I had been born earlier and caught in World War II here in the States, I don't doubt for a second which side I would have picked: the resistance, obviously. I come from a working-class family; my ancestors were farmers. My place is with the workers and the laborers... I wouldn't be a communist, I have no interest in that, but back then, the resistance was the best choice for the common man, the worker, the farmer.

There is no left wing today that compares to the resistance back then. Today's "quasi"-left would have sold out the working class to Hitler in a heartbeat just to protect their own interests.

vividfox9 said:Local nationalism feels pretty macho—it’s just loud, crude, and honestly, a bit verbally aggressive.

Fascism in the West is such a fluid thing—it’s more like a messy collage of contradictions than anything else.
Time is actually the most dangerous thing we deal with.
This is just 21st-century fascism, rebranded for social media. It’s got a whole new name now— I’ve been thinking a lot about the rise of conservative populism lately. It feels like we're seeing this massive shift in how people connect with leadership, moving away from the old establishment toward voices that feel more raw and direct. I remember watching my dad debate these exact issues around the dinner table years ago, and while the players have changed, that underlying feeling of being unheard seems to be driving everything right now..

The Germans, who bore the brunt of responsibility for creating and consolidating Nazism as a threat to global civilization, came to a realization after losing the war: modern nations don't grow by expanding their borders, but by increasing their depth and sophistication.
Right-wing nationalist parties over here—many of which have been banned in the past—are starting to gain traction again, mostly because people are losing patience with the current immigration crisis.

People today act way too much like they belong to some exclusive club or elite tribe. If that’s really how things have shifted, then our best defense against the rise of the far right might just be rediscovering what it means to value the collective community and actually committing to it again. As the writer Ishay Lando says...

The only thing that actually justifies a government's existence is its ability to administer justice. That’s what separates a legitimate state from just a bunch of organized criminals, according to Aurelius Augustinus Hipponensis of Tagaste (modern-day Algeria).

Come on, don't be so afraid.
It’s never too late to start again, even if you feel like you've let your creative side slip away for a while.
You can actually rebuild and sharpen your creative muscles pretty easily just through consistent practice and training. The real key is simply believing that the ability to create is already sitting there inside you, waiting to be tapped.
That’s exactly where true individual freedom comes from—it's about not being forced to bow down to those conservative populists who just want everyone to think exactly like them so they can control everything.

It isn't lost.
The right wing in the EU gained a lot of ground regarding these refugee waves and other issues, but when you look closer, that extreme right has no answers to many questions. They will fail there in the long run.

Europe needs a total reset. Though I hope that reset doesn't involve another massive war.

cosmicgull52 said:If there is anything within you that drives you to support Trump, then you never belonged on the left to begin with. You belong in the trash heap alongside those gangrenous, failed ideas and the mainstream Left that you claim to despise so much.

It is as if you believe that garbage is your only alternative.

Furthermore, your suspicious stance on "destroying the family" is nothing more than code for refusing to acknowledge any family structure that doesn't fit your narrow-minded views.

Just stay under that MAGA hat and leave the issues of the left alone. 👋

I am not a bot, and I am certainly not a carbon copy of one specific political circle; I have my own views and I don't just parrot whatever a single political party tells me. I would much rather be an individual than a partisan clone.

For the most part, I lean left—probably closer to a libertarian leftist. But there are certain things where I actually agree with the right.

I am no fan of people like those hypocrites on the far-right religious circuit. However, I do understand that the family is a vital pillar of society. I have absolutely no issue with gay families; I believe they should have the same civil rights as any other family. I support LGBTQ individuals and their rights, and I want them to have equality alongside all other citizens.

But... it is also not okay when LGBTQ individuals break the rules and then play the victim once they get arrested and charged. Have you ever been to a Pride parade? I have (in San Francisco and Miami). I’m glad they’re celebrating and having a good time, but I don't necessarily need to watch guys performing sexual acts in public, especially where children under 12 are present, only to whine about their rights being violated when they get busted... What if I started having sex with my wife in the middle of the street in front of kids?

And some gay people actually condemn these parades, because they've started to lose their purpose now that many gay people have achieved the same rights as straight people. They used to make sense back when people were fighting for basic rights. Personally, it's their choice—if they want a parade, go for it, and I'll show up and support them! Most of those parades are fun.

But... the nucleus of society is the family. And when I say quasi-liberalism destroys families, I don't mean what you think I mean. They destroy the family by eroding labor rights, failing to protect the little guy from the banking lobby, massive taxation, the pharmaceutical lobby, and so on. Those elites aren't destroying the family through Pride parades; they're doing it through much more serious actions that undermine basic human needs for both the individual and the family.

The law needs to be equal for everyone. If you think this perspective makes me narrow-minded—then I guess I'm proud of being narrow-minded.

Chris Myers said:The biggest culprit behind this mess—by far—is the left. Mostly over in the West and across Europe (and here in the States—look no further than the Democratic Party).

It isn’t just because they’re weak, or because they’ve lost every shred of their moral compass, or even because they’ve become the total antithesis of what they used to be. It’s simpler than that: they just abandoned the working class and rural folks to a pit of despair, leaving them wide open for the modern right to swoop in. They basically turned into corporate shills, chasing money that fuels the downfall of every blue-collar worker in Europe and America, and honestly, everyone else too. They've become nothing more than puppets for big corporate capital, which couldn't care less about destroying the environment, tearing apart families, or wrecking the very foundations of society...

And I say this as an atheist and a liberal-leftist at heart—though certainly not one of those pseudo-liberals the so-called "left" crawls alongside today. As it stands, there isn't a trace of a true left wing left.

So, we ended up with this paradox in the US where people like me have also thrown our support behind Trump. It’s simple: even though he's a conservative, he's a hell of a lot less of a fraud than what is perceived as the "left" in America.

Great post, InterMezzo... totally honest to the end (definitely a different vibe than the Religion forum, but I guess that depends on who you're talking to).

Then again, both the left and the right have massive issues.

To me, it feels like the social hierarchy has completely collapsed—you're supposed to go from the individual, to the family, and then move upward toward the global level... but all those intermediate layers have just crumbled.

Does democratic decision-making even function at a European level, let alone globally? Not really.
Is any kind of horizontal connection possible at those scales? So far, it's practically non-existent.

There was a time when people cursed the elites because they were being shoved into mass slaughter and trenches during World War I... back then, everything a person owned—even their own life—had to be sacrificed on the altar of the nation.

Nowadays, people are just told we're all part of a "global village" and to stop asking too many questions...

cosmicgull52 said:If there is anything within you that drives you to support Trump, then you never belonged on the left to begin with. You belong in the trash heap alongside those gangrenous, failed ideas and the mainstream Left that you claim to despise so much.

It is as if you believe that garbage is your only alternative.

Furthermore, your suspicious stance on "destroying the family" is nothing more than code for refusing to acknowledge any family structure that doesn't fit your narrow-minded views.

Just stay under that MAGA hat and leave the issues of the left alone. 👋

And what "left" are we even talking about? The main parties claiming that label are embarrassed by social democracy, let alone anything more substantial. You can't seriously believe that LGBTQ+ rights define the entire left wing of the political spectrum. Once figures like Bill Clinton or Tony Blair stripped away the core leftist principles in favor of "Third Way" neoliberalism, the mainstream left effectively ceased to exist. They left a vacuum, and it was filled by conservative populist movements. Marx would probably take his own life if he saw what these so-called "leftist" parties have morphed into today...

Thanks, man.

Which part on Religion?

I guess I rarely go there, and even when I do, I'm mostly just messing around. My serious posts are pretty rare. Too many trolls over there...

Leave the "social safety net" alone—it has already achieved its limit, which is establishing a basic social welfare state similar to what you see in the Nordic countries. Since the communist economic model was nothing more than a failed utopia that ended in absolute catastrophe, the only viable solution is a capitalist economy followed by the redistribution of profits through taxation.

Furthermore, this whole debate regarding "Universal Basic Income" is actually much closer to reality than people care to admit. It is quite literally the only way to marginalize and neutralize the segment of society that is becoming obsolete due to disruptive technological advancements.

Chris Myers said:Thanks, man.

Which part on Religion?

I guess I rarely go there, and even when I do, I'm mostly just messing around. My serious posts are pretty rare. Too many trolls over there...

I'll get back to you later today, gotta run.

Chris Myers said:The biggest culprit behind this mess—by far—is the left. Mostly over in the West and across Europe (and here in the States—look no further than the Democratic Party).

It isn’t just because they’re weak, or because they’ve lost every shred of their moral compass, or even because they’ve become the total antithesis of what they used to be. It’s simpler than that: they just abandoned the working class and rural folks to a pit of despair, leaving them wide open for the modern right to swoop in. They basically turned into corporate shills, chasing money that fuels the downfall of every blue-collar worker in Europe and America, and honestly, everyone else too. They've become nothing more than puppets for big corporate capital, which couldn't care less about destroying the environment, tearing apart families, or wrecking the very foundations of society...

And I say this as an atheist and a liberal-leftist at heart—though certainly not one of those pseudo-liberals the so-called "left" crawls alongside today. As it stands, there isn't a trace of a true left wing left.

So, we ended up with this paradox in the US where people like me have also thrown our support behind Trump. It’s simple: even though he's a conservative, he's a hell of a lot less of a fraud than what is perceived as the "left" in America.

But honestly, it makes sense.

The left (and I don't mean our side, since they just mindlessly parrot whatever the party headquarters tells them to)... well, the left has been in power for decades now. They've become the establishment, which naturally makes them the enemy of the average person. The same thing happened to whoever came before them, and it's exactly what will happen to whoever comes after.

Back in the day, these cycles might have taken centuries to play out. But nowadays, thanks to technology and, more importantly, democracy, we get to watch the whole process unfold within a single generation.

For me, nothing is more satisfying than seeing an ordinary person go viral online, screaming, "Stick your fancy perks and holidays up your ass!"... It's that same everyday person who decided to take a stand against Basitlja.👍

Henry Garcia13 said:And what "left" are we even talking about? The main parties claiming that label are embarrassed by social democracy, let alone anything more substantial. You can't seriously believe that LGBTQ+ rights define the entire left wing of the political spectrum. Once figures like Bill Clinton or Tony Blair stripped away the core leftist principles in favor of "Third Way" neoliberalism, the mainstream left effectively ceased to exist. They left a vacuum, and it was filled by conservative populist movements. Marx would probably take his own life if he saw what these so-called "leftist" parties have morphed into today...

Then which side is it? The right? 🤦

Why is fascism automatically labeled as inherently evil? So, fascist Italy launched aggressive wars against other sovereign nations? Big deal! The socialist Soviet Union did the exact same thing—yet nobody seems to view socialism through that same lens.

I have a strong feeling we’re going to see a rehabilitation of these kinds of ideas in the near future. Granted, they won't be called "fascism." That term will likely remain a dirty word for a long time. What I am actually referring to is the concept of forging an agreement between labor and capital under the umbrella of a powerful nation-state. From that foundation, you get demographic incentives, massive infrastructure projects, large-scale mobilization, and the realization of a utopia driven by a singular national vision. That is precisely what Europe needs today.

So, I was watching this PBS special last night about Turkey—specifically all these immigrants struggling to get by and how Europe is basically slamming the door shut while the Turks are more than happy to take them in. It’s wild, right? They kept talking up the whole grandeur of the old Ottoman Empire, even though we spent a century at war with those guys. Honestly, I don't see why we should start looking up to non-European thinkers like the ones they were profiling... it feels to me like they've just hijacked the cultural conversation to make room for an influx of barbarians. Is our fight to preserve Europe considered fascism now? Please. It’s win or die, plain and simple!

Morgan Cook10 said:But honestly, it makes sense.

The left (and I don't mean our side, since they just mindlessly parrot whatever the party headquarters tells them to)... well, the left has been in power for decades now. They've become the establishment, which naturally makes them the enemy of the average person. The same thing happened to whoever came before them, and it's exactly what will happen to whoever comes after.

Back in the day, these cycles might have taken centuries to play out. But nowadays, thanks to technology and, more importantly, democracy, we get to watch the whole process unfold within a single generation.

For me, nothing is more satisfying than seeing an ordinary person go viral online, screaming, "Stick your fancy perks and holidays up your ass!"... It's that same everyday person who decided to take a stand against Basitlja.👍

Nope. Sorry.

It wasn't a pole shift; it was just a role shift.

Steven Fox37 said:Then which side is it? The right? 🤦

Neither left nor right.

Populism isn't just empty demagoguery, so why should we assume it's inherently bad?

When people talk about crypto-fascism, I’d argue that extremism on both sides—left and right—eventually leads back to fascism. For the right, it happens through nationalism, while for the left, it's driven by globalism. Basically, you end up with Nazism on one side and Communism on the other.
Nowadays, it seems like the far-left is running the show everywhere, pushing this whole "progressive" agenda.

You see these progressives in power all over the place: Villiband in the USA, Bernie Sanders, Angela Merkel, and Andrea Nahles, plus Manuel Barroso, Matteo Renzi, and Pedro Sánchez in Spain. Even all those Swedish prime ministers over the last 50 years, Alexis Tsipras in Greece, the entire Democratic Party there, or even going back to François Mitterrand to "Flamboyant" in France, and then Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and even that icon of the modern left, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ( 😂 )

With this kind of left-wing crowd holding the reins for the last 15 years, I guess voters aren't really left with much choice besides voting for sovereignty-focused movements—what some call the modern right.
The old-school left actually came from the working class; they actually cared about them. But today's version? It's just elite, salon-dwelling types indoctrinated by cultural Marxism.
What kind of left do we have in America? We have leaders who still act like they're running a private club rather than a political party. Most of the people in the Democratic Party are just the kids of former establishment elites, raised with silver spoons and special privileges, and now they're just trying to protect their own status. In my opinion, the last real socialist we had was someone like a true old-school labor leader.

Chris Myers said:Nope. Sorry.

It wasn't a pole shift; it was just a role shift.

Neither left nor right.

What does it even mean to call someone a "leftist" when you're looking at some politician who rolls into Kentucky and basically announces, "Hey, just so you know, we're planning to shut down all your coal mines in the coming years and leave you high and dry!!!!!"
And when you apply that label to the people cheering her on...
you're telling me it isn't a change in identity, it's just a change in roles? Like, modern leftists are just seeing how many workers and regular folks they can screw over...

Fair enough... I hear you... but to me, identity and role feel like two sides of the same coin.

Liberalism and the entire left-wing movement are nothing more than engines of destruction aimed straight at the backbone of American working-class families—the very people who actually hold this civilization together. Look, whether people want to admit it or not, humans are pack animals by nature, right? We’re built to thrive in groups. But the left? They won't let the pack rise out of poverty because they need us down there. The right actually has an answer for that. Instead of wasting capital on degenerate drug nonsense, the wealthy should be redirecting those funds back into the family unit and the workforce. A real worker isn't just going to be stuck doing manual labor forever—they’re going to ride the technological trends and master new tools, which completely flies in the face of the leftist desire to cling to outdated jobs just to protect their cozy, bureaucratic, "connected" positions. In that kind of market, "humanism" as they define it simply won't survive. Honestly, your narc-feminist lifestyle doesn't interest us one bit, nor does any of the garbage thinking that comes from it. You better watch out for the American right-wing collective, because we’re coming😁to tear up every single one of your plans for the destruction of our nation.

says:
What does it even mean to call someone a "leftist" when they roll into Kentucky and basically tell everyone, "Just so you know... we're planning to shut down all your coal mines in the coming years and leave you high and dry!!!!!"?
And what about the people clapping for her?

The issue isn't actually about wanting to close those mines. The real problem is that there’s zero actual plan to find jobs for the people getting laid off. Instead, they offer these "coding bootcamps," where they expect some 55-year-old to suddenly master HTML and CSS—only to realize they still won't get hired because companies will always pick a bright-eyed 20-year-old over them anyway. Moving away from fossil fuels is a necessity, sure. But the problem with Clinton is the assumption that she can just shut everything down and rely on the "invisible hand" to somehow magically find former miners new work somewhere else.

Chris Myers said:Nope. Sorry.

It wasn't a pole shift; it was just a role shift.

Neither left nor right.

The issue with the left today isn't a surplus of gay rights; it's a deficit of socialism. Removing one doesn't mean the other will spontaneously appear. And personally? I have no intention of voting for Boone types wearing red paint.

Morgan Cook10 said:What does it even mean to call someone a "leftist" when you're looking at some politician who rolls into Kentucky and basically announces, "Hey, just so you know, we're planning to shut down all your coal mines in the coming years and leave you high and dry!!!!!"
And when you apply that label to the people cheering her on...
you're telling me it isn't a change in identity, it's just a change in roles? Like, modern leftists are just seeing how many workers and regular folks they can screw over...

Fair enough... I hear you... but to me, identity and role feel like two sides of the same coin.

Poles are always opposites, but roles aren't. It’s absurd how today, both the quasi-liberal left and the center—and even a good chunk of the right—have taken on the role of protecting the powerful (one pole), while only recently has a more extreme wing of the right stepped up to defend the masses (the other pole). This imbalance is dangerous, and Cestar noted it quite clearly. You can't stop a collapse if one side holds onto those who need change while the other side benefits from keeping this harmful status quo. The twilight of democracy is becoming hard to avoid.

Steven Murphy2 said:So, I was watching this PBS special last night about Turkey—specifically all these immigrants struggling to get by and how Europe is basically slamming the door shut while the Turks are more than happy to take them in. It’s wild, right? They kept talking up the whole grandeur of the old Ottoman Empire, even though we spent a century at war with those guys. Honestly, I don't see why we should start looking up to non-European thinkers like the ones they were profiling... it feels to me like they've just hijacked the cultural conversation to make room for an influx of barbarians. Is our fight to preserve Europe considered fascism now? Please. It’s win or die, plain and simple!

Guess we were watching the same thing...
That hotel and pool scene were top-tier, plus that bit about Burkina Faso. 🙄
Then there was that ghetto where the Sultan's voter base lives... everyone's fed and identical. Honestly, sounds like the perfect state compared to this decaying liberal West. 😁

America could always go back to its roots too—you know, the Middle Ages and the Holy Inquisition.
We could even dive into a holy war.
And there you have it—classic conservative populism for ya.