The secret to seduction is objectifying women.

Maybe it’s just easier to end it all—then you don't have any more (relationship) problems to deal with.

Mark Martin10 said:I'm trying to picture the scenario where a guy approaches a woman, they meet, and he goes: "I possess a depth of spirit as profound as my desires, along with a benevolence capable of rigorous firmness, which I switch between with ease. My views on women are purely traditional; I view them as a possession to be kept, a property to be locked away, destined for submission, through which perfection is achieved. Marry me."

(According to the internet, this is what Frederick would say)

I bet any woman would fall head over heels for a "sage" like that.

Well, I think this is a very profound and relevant quote. It's from Nietzsche, right?!
No—if some man thinks of women in an orientalist way, then it would be logical for him to find a woman from the East. I mean, what American woman is going to let herself be viewed through that lens? The West has become mired in equality and emancipation. But then again—women love and want dominant men. It isn't about saying "I am a dominant man," rather, one actually has to be it. As they say—it's about being more than just appearing so.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Are you referring specifically to physical looks—like facial features or body type—along with clothing and makeup, or are you talking about "flirtatious" body language?

A person is interesting if they actually *are* interesting; no amount of "presentation" is going to turn a lemon into lemonade. If someone is emotionally needy, intellectually dull, and spiritually shallow, they aren't going to have much luck with women. It really couldn't be simpler than that. Even if they manage to play a part for a little while, they shouldn't be surprised when women run the other way once they see who they're actually dealing with.

To put it simply: if all you want is a fling, you just need to be an object of desire, which isn't exactly a monumental task. But if you're looking for a real relationship, you need to be a well-rounded person, which is a much harder goal to achieve. Judging by your posts, you've got quite a bit of work ahead of you.

Well said. Honestly, if you’re just looking for the physical act itself, this covers all the bases. It feels like the author isn't just interested in a quick one-off encounter—it seems like they're aiming for something much more substantial than just a fleeting moment.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people seem to think there's some grand mystery here—it’s honestly a bit baffling! I mean, I know I tend to overthink things—it's a bit of a curse, really—but sometimes you just have to step back and look at the big picture. It feels like we're all spinning our wheels on the small stuff when the actual answer is staring us right in the face. Anyway, just my two cents... probably not worth much, but there it is. kaže:
The real hurdle—the absolute mountain most guys have to climb if they actually want a woman to take notice—is coming to terms with a hard truth: he isn't actually interested in her as a whole human being. Instead, he’s looking at her as an object of desire... you know, just a "thing" that she’s supposedly supposed to provide or tolerate in his life. It’s a tough pill to swallow, honestly—realizing that the foundation is built on craving rather than actually connecting with who she is.

It’s funny how we’re being taught lately—you know, that whole modern shift in how guys are supposed to carry themselves—that we really need to move away from this habit of objectifying women. The idea is that we have to start seeing them as actual human beings, complete with their own complex emotions and personal ambitions, rather than just... well, you know. And the theory goes that if we actually approach them with that kind of genuine respect and empathy, we’ll find that it naturally sparks a much deeper interest on their end. It’s about treating people like people—simple, right? But apparently, it’s a lesson many of us are still working through. It’s honestly a massive uphill battle most of the time—and I mean that sincerely—because you run into so many women who just don't seem to have much going on beneath the surface. It feels like they aren't particularly interesting at all, and frankly, their only real draw is their physical appearance... which, let's be honest, is usually the only thing that gets men to show any interest in them as actual human beings. It just feels like there’s this pervasive, unfortunate assumption—if I’m being honest—that any woman who happens to be physically attractive is automatically shallow or "empty." It’s such a reductive way to look at people, especially when you’re forced to descend to that level of purely non-verbal, superficial communication just to get through a conversation. It’s frustrating, really.
It works exactly the same way in reverse, really—because, let’s be honest, women aren't typically wired to be instinctively interested in men as individuals right out of the gate. It’s more like... well, the man has to actively spark that interest. He basically has to curate this version of himself—presenting his best qualities—to show her that he’s actually someone worth having around in her life. It’s all about making that case, I suppose. It’s funny—and honestly, a little bit tragic—how things work out sometimes. There’s this specific moment when a man finally lets his guard down and shows his emotional side—you know, when he actually admits he has needs or feels vulnerable—and instead of bringing him closer, it often does the exact opposite. For a lot of women, that sudden glimpse behind the curtain completely shatters the illusion they had built up about him. It’s like the pedestal just cracks, and suddenly, that spark of interest just... vanishes. They lose that fascination because the "perfect" image they were holding onto doesn't match the reality of a human being with feelings.
So, how does a man actually go about winning over a woman? It’s funny—we spend so much time overthinking the "moves" or looking for some secret playbook—but if you really sit down and think about it, it comes down to being... well, let's just say there isn't one single magic trick. But if I had to pin it down, he needs to be genuine. Just completely, unapologetically himself. No masks, no acting like someone out of a Hollywood rom-com—because, let's face it, that kind of stuff is exhausting to maintain and, frankly, most people see right through it anyway. He has to be attentive—not just listening to the words she says, but actually *hearing* her—and he needs to show a level of consistency that builds real trust. It’s the little things, really—the steady presence, the small gestures, the ability to be a reliable partner when things get messy. It's less about the grand, sweeping gestures you see in movies and more about that quiet, steady strength of character. Subject It’s about her motives—not who she actually is.

If you genuinely believe that women are nothing more than walking sexual outlets meant to satisfy a man's urges—well, honestly, you aren't going to get very far in life. It’s just not a sustainable way to live. You might manage to brag about a fling or two here and there, sure, but that’s really where the road ends. And even then—let’s be realistic—that only works if she actually finds you attractive in the first place.

Honestly, I think that whole part about emotions just doesn't hold water—not even a little bit. If a woman actually finds you interesting for something more than just physical stuff, she’s going to be looking closely at the emotional connection. It's just how it works. Any woman out there who's looking for something real—something deeper than just a hookup—is going to notice pretty quickly if the emotional side is missing. And once she realizes there's no heart in it? She’s going to walk away. Period.

Look, if I can offer you a little bit of unsolicited advice—and please, bear with me here—I’d say just take a breath and stop overthinking the whole "how to win women over" thing. Honestly, all that deep philosophy about dating strategies? It’s exhausting. Just be yourself. It sounds like a cliché, I know, I know—don't roll your eyes—but truly, if you're genuine, you'll find someone who actually clicks with you. But—and this is a big "but"—you really do need to check that ego at the door. You have to ditch the narcissism and stop viewing women as nothing more than objects meant to play out your own little sexual fantasies. That’s a dead end, trust me. Just be a decent human being, and things will fall into place.

Most of the answers you're looking for are already out there. I’ve put together a quick breakdown here that covers even the basics, just in case psychology isn't really your thing—you just have to give the video a slightly closer look.

Jason Kim6 said:Maybe it’s just easier to end it all—then you don't have any more (relationship) problems to deal with.

Nah, I think we should just legalize sex work instead.

In super religious circles here in the States, people tend to make such a massive deal out of basic physical intimacy. It’s wild how much noise they make about it.

Laura Castillo6 said:Nah, I think we should just legalize sex work instead.

In super religious circles here in the States, people tend to make such a massive deal out of basic physical intimacy. It’s wild how much noise they make about it.

I’m all for it. Honestly, I have a lot of respect for people who find themselves forced down certain paths because of their circumstances—those who don't really have any other choice. If we can at least regulate this legally, we can ensure they get access to things like healthcare and basic protections. It’s honestly a total facepalm moment for the human race when we can't provide meaningful work that matches someone's abilities, especially when they actually want to work...

It’s always been a bit amusing to me how someone can wake up, throw a bucket of white paint over themselves, and then immediately start lecturing everyone on objectivity and the nature of perception.

Honestly, maybe try fixing the fake lashes or the veneers first before diving into those deep topics. Until then, you just look like a walking caricature of everything you're trying to talk about.

Eric Grant3 said:Well said. Honestly, if you’re just looking for the physical act itself, this covers all the bases. It feels like the author isn't just interested in a quick one-off encounter—it seems like they're aiming for something much more substantial than just a fleeting moment.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people seem to think there's some grand mystery here—it’s honestly a bit baffling! I mean, I know I tend to overthink things—it's a bit of a curse, really—but sometimes you just have to step back and look at the big picture. It feels like we're all spinning our wheels on the small stuff when the actual answer is staring us right in the face. Anyway, just my two cents... probably not worth much, but there it is. kaže:
The real hurdle—the absolute mountain most guys have to climb if they actually want a woman to take notice—is coming to terms with a hard truth: he isn't actually interested in her as a whole human being. Instead, he’s looking at her as an object of desire... you know, just a "thing" that she’s supposedly supposed to provide or tolerate in his life. It’s a tough pill to swallow, honestly—realizing that the foundation is built on craving rather than actually connecting with who she is.

It’s funny how we’re being taught lately—you know, that whole modern shift in how guys are supposed to carry themselves—that we really need to move away from this habit of objectifying women. The idea is that we have to start seeing them as actual human beings, complete with their own complex emotions and personal ambitions, rather than just... well, you know. And the theory goes that if we actually approach them with that kind of genuine respect and empathy, we’ll find that it naturally sparks a much deeper interest on their end. It’s about treating people like people—simple, right? But apparently, it’s a lesson many of us are still working through. It’s honestly a massive uphill battle most of the time—and I mean that sincerely—because you run into so many women who just don't seem to have much going on beneath the surface. It feels like they aren't particularly interesting at all, and frankly, their only real draw is their physical appearance... which, let's be honest, is usually the only thing that gets men to show any interest in them as actual human beings. It just feels like there’s this pervasive, unfortunate assumption—if I’m being honest—that any woman who happens to be physically attractive is automatically shallow or "empty." It’s such a reductive way to look at people, especially when you’re forced to descend to that level of purely non-verbal, superficial communication just to get through a conversation. It’s frustrating, really.
It works exactly the same way in reverse, really—because, let’s be honest, women aren't typically wired to be instinctively interested in men as individuals right out of the gate. It’s more like... well, the man has to actively spark that interest. He basically has to curate this version of himself—presenting his best qualities—to show her that he’s actually someone worth having around in her life. It’s all about making that case, I suppose. It’s funny—and honestly, a little bit tragic—how things work out sometimes. There’s this specific moment when a man finally lets his guard down and shows his emotional side—you know, when he actually admits he has needs or feels vulnerable—and instead of bringing him closer, it often does the exact opposite. For a lot of women, that sudden glimpse behind the curtain completely shatters the illusion they had built up about him. It’s like the pedestal just cracks, and suddenly, that spark of interest just... vanishes. They lose that fascination because the "perfect" image they were holding onto doesn't match the reality of a human being with feelings.
So, how does a man actually go about winning over a woman? It’s funny—we spend so much time overthinking the "moves" or looking for some secret playbook—but if you really sit down and think about it, it comes down to being... well, let's just say there isn't one single magic trick. But if I had to pin it down, he needs to be genuine. Just completely, unapologetically himself. No masks, no acting like someone out of a Hollywood rom-com—because, let's face it, that kind of stuff is exhausting to maintain and, frankly, most people see right through it anyway. He has to be attentive—not just listening to the words she says, but actually *hearing* her—and he needs to show a level of consistency that builds real trust. It’s the little things, really—the steady presence, the small gestures, the ability to be a reliable partner when things get messy. It's less about the grand, sweeping gestures you see in movies and more about that quiet, steady strength of character. Subject It’s about her motives—not who she actually is.

If you genuinely believe that women are nothing more than walking sexual outlets meant to satisfy a man's urges—well, honestly, you aren't going to get very far in life. It’s just not a sustainable way to live. You might manage to brag about a fling or two here and there, sure, but that’s really where the road ends. And even then—let’s be realistic—that only works if she actually finds you attractive in the first place.

Honestly, I think that whole part about emotions just doesn't hold water—not even a little bit. If a woman actually finds you interesting for something more than just physical stuff, she’s going to be looking closely at the emotional connection. It's just how it works. Any woman out there who's looking for something real—something deeper than just a hookup—is going to notice pretty quickly if the emotional side is missing. And once she realizes there's no heart in it? She’s going to walk away. Period.

Look, if I can offer you a little bit of unsolicited advice—and please, bear with me here—I’d say just take a breath and stop overthinking the whole "how to win women over" thing. Honestly, all that deep philosophy about dating strategies? It’s exhausting. Just be yourself. It sounds like a cliché, I know, I know—don't roll your eyes—but truly, if you're genuine, you'll find someone who actually clicks with you. But—and this is a big "but"—you really do need to check that ego at the door. You have to ditch the narcissism and stop viewing women as nothing more than objects meant to play out your own little sexual fantasies. That’s a dead end, trust me. Just be a decent human being, and things will fall into place.

So, what is the average woman actually aiming for when she dresses today? You hit the nail on the head—she’s striving for that idealized look designed purely to trigger male fantasy. It's likely not even a conscious strategy to maximize her options by appealing to the widest possible demographic; it's often framed as just "feeling good in her own skin." 😁 Or perhaps it's just emphasizing "natural beauty," though in practice, that usually means a specific kind of beauty engineered to meet those exact masculine preferences.

Nathan Kelly5 said:So, what is the average woman actually aiming for when she dresses today? You hit the nail on the head—she’s striving for that idealized look designed purely to trigger male fantasy. It's likely not even a conscious strategy to maximize her options by appealing to the widest possible demographic; it's often framed as just "feeling good in her own skin." 😁 Or perhaps it's just emphasizing "natural beauty," though in practice, that usually means a specific kind of beauty engineered to meet those exact masculine preferences.

Congrats. You completely missed the point of the game here. I honestly don't know how you managed to misinterpret everything so spectacularly—or maybe a better question is, what kind of women have you been hanging out with lately?
I can't imagine any woman actually wanting to be a walking anatomy lesson, whether she realizes it or not. Honestly, I don't think anyone wants to be treated as a mere sexual object, unless their sole purpose in life is just to show off.

With this post, you're basically acting like a projectionist—you see exactly what you want to see in others.
And what look is a woman striving for? Well, let me describe what *I* strive for. My everyday feminine look: a knee-length dress—or maybe just a couple of inches above the knee at most—usually paired with casual sneakers, tights and boots in the winter, or just jeans and a button-down. Minimal jewelry, and as far as makeup goes, just mascara and maybe some lip balm or gloss. No deep cleavage, no micro-minis... just manicured nails and long hair, either down or in a ponytail.
When I'm heading to the beach or doing something athletic, I'm just in sweats and gym sneakers.
There are absolutely no fake eyelashes or anything like that, which seems to be what you're hinting at.
So, tell me, which part of my description reminds you of a walking vagina? Unless, of course, wearing a decent length dress and tights is now synonymous with being a walking sex object.

And yeah, screw the guys who have nothing to say and aren't interesting. I'm not quite as "brave" as the original author to go around labeling everyone, but I will say this: I simply have nothing to do with people like that. The same goes for those who refuse to show any emotion whatsoever.
Finding a guy just for sex is easy enough, but—thank you very much—that's certainly not what I'm looking for.

Mark Martin10 said:I'm trying to picture the scenario where a guy approaches a woman, they meet, and he goes: "I possess a depth of spirit as profound as my desires, along with a benevolence capable of rigorous firmness, which I switch between with ease. My views on women are purely traditional; I view them as a possession to be kept, a property to be locked away, destined for submission, through which perfection is achieved. Marry me."

(According to the internet, this is what Frederick would say)

I bet any woman would fall head over heels for a "sage" like that.

For sure. That’s why you have to be careful with lines like that, lest the poor girl gets a concussion from falling so hard. It's important that she lands safely and securely in a comfy armchair, definitely not on a barstool. And it’s probably a good idea to keep some smelling salts handy to bring her back to her senses before you lead her into the (Platonov) cave. 🧐

Eric Grant3 said:Congrats. You completely missed the point of the game here. I honestly don't know how you managed to misinterpret everything so spectacularly—or maybe a better question is, what kind of women have you been hanging out with lately?
I can't imagine any woman actually wanting to be a walking anatomy lesson, whether she realizes it or not. Honestly, I don't think anyone wants to be treated as a mere sexual object, unless their sole purpose in life is just to show off.

With this post, you're basically acting like a projectionist—you see exactly what you want to see in others.
And what look is a woman striving for? Well, let me describe what *I* strive for. My everyday feminine look: a knee-length dress—or maybe just a couple of inches above the knee at most—usually paired with casual sneakers, tights and boots in the winter, or just jeans and a button-down. Minimal jewelry, and as far as makeup goes, just mascara and maybe some lip balm or gloss. No deep cleavage, no micro-minis... just manicured nails and long hair, either down or in a ponytail.
When I'm heading to the beach or doing something athletic, I'm just in sweats and gym sneakers.
There are absolutely no fake eyelashes or anything like that, which seems to be what you're hinting at.
So, tell me, which part of my description reminds you of a walking vagina? Unless, of course, wearing a decent length dress and tights is now synonymous with being a walking sex object.

And yeah, screw the guys who have nothing to say and aren't interesting. I'm not quite as "brave" as the original author to go around labeling everyone, but I will say this: I simply have nothing to do with people like that. The same goes for those who refuse to show any emotion whatsoever.
Finding a guy just for sex is easy enough, but—thank you very much—that's certainly not what I'm looking for.

Doesn't matter who they hang out with. All they need to do is check CNN or some major news site to see what kind of women are considered "in" right now. Honestly, the duck face thing is dead, but that ridiculous body type is still all over the media...

The truth is, more than half of women out there aren't anything like what you see on social media or news sites... it just goes unnoticed.

Eric Grant3 said:Well said. Honestly, if you’re just looking for the physical act itself, this covers all the bases. It feels like the author isn't just interested in a quick one-off encounter—it seems like they're aiming for something much more substantial than just a fleeting moment.

I can't quite wrap my head around why people seem to think there's some grand mystery here—it’s honestly a bit baffling! I mean, I know I tend to overthink things—it's a bit of a curse, really—but sometimes you just have to step back and look at the big picture. It feels like we're all spinning our wheels on the small stuff when the actual answer is staring us right in the face. Anyway, just my two cents... probably not worth much, but there it is. kaže:
The real hurdle—the absolute mountain most guys have to climb if they actually want a woman to take notice—is coming to terms with a hard truth: he isn't actually interested in her as a whole human being. Instead, he’s looking at her as an object of desire... you know, just a "thing" that she’s supposedly supposed to provide or tolerate in his life. It’s a tough pill to swallow, honestly—realizing that the foundation is built on craving rather than actually connecting with who she is.

It’s funny how we’re being taught lately—you know, that whole modern shift in how guys are supposed to carry themselves—that we really need to move away from this habit of objectifying women. The idea is that we have to start seeing them as actual human beings, complete with their own complex emotions and personal ambitions, rather than just... well, you know. And the theory goes that if we actually approach them with that kind of genuine respect and empathy, we’ll find that it naturally sparks a much deeper interest on their end. It’s about treating people like people—simple, right? But apparently, it’s a lesson many of us are still working through. It’s honestly a massive uphill battle most of the time—and I mean that sincerely—because you run into so many women who just don't seem to have much going on beneath the surface. It feels like they aren't particularly interesting at all, and frankly, their only real draw is their physical appearance... which, let's be honest, is usually the only thing that gets men to show any interest in them as actual human beings. It just feels like there’s this pervasive, unfortunate assumption—if I’m being honest—that any woman who happens to be physically attractive is automatically shallow or "empty." It’s such a reductive way to look at people, especially when you’re forced to descend to that level of purely non-verbal, superficial communication just to get through a conversation. It’s frustrating, really.
It works exactly the same way in reverse, really—because, let’s be honest, women aren't typically wired to be instinctively interested in men as individuals right out of the gate. It’s more like... well, the man has to actively spark that interest. He basically has to curate this version of himself—presenting his best qualities—to show her that he’s actually someone worth having around in her life. It’s all about making that case, I suppose. It’s funny—and honestly, a little bit tragic—how things work out sometimes. There’s this specific moment when a man finally lets his guard down and shows his emotional side—you know, when he actually admits he has needs or feels vulnerable—and instead of bringing him closer, it often does the exact opposite. For a lot of women, that sudden glimpse behind the curtain completely shatters the illusion they had built up about him. It’s like the pedestal just cracks, and suddenly, that spark of interest just... vanishes. They lose that fascination because the "perfect" image they were holding onto doesn't match the reality of a human being with feelings.
So, how does a man actually go about winning over a woman? It’s funny—we spend so much time overthinking the "moves" or looking for some secret playbook—but if you really sit down and think about it, it comes down to being... well, let's just say there isn't one single magic trick. But if I had to pin it down, he needs to be genuine. Just completely, unapologetically himself. No masks, no acting like someone out of a Hollywood rom-com—because, let's face it, that kind of stuff is exhausting to maintain and, frankly, most people see right through it anyway. He has to be attentive—not just listening to the words she says, but actually *hearing* her—and he needs to show a level of consistency that builds real trust. It’s the little things, really—the steady presence, the small gestures, the ability to be a reliable partner when things get messy. It's less about the grand, sweeping gestures you see in movies and more about that quiet, steady strength of character. Subject It’s about her motives—not who she actually is.

If you genuinely believe that women are nothing more than walking sexual outlets meant to satisfy a man's urges—well, honestly, you aren't going to get very far in life. It’s just not a sustainable way to live. You might manage to brag about a fling or two here and there, sure, but that’s really where the road ends. And even then—let’s be realistic—that only works if she actually finds you attractive in the first place.

Honestly, I think that whole part about emotions just doesn't hold water—not even a little bit. If a woman actually finds you interesting for something more than just physical stuff, she’s going to be looking closely at the emotional connection. It's just how it works. Any woman out there who's looking for something real—something deeper than just a hookup—is going to notice pretty quickly if the emotional side is missing. And once she realizes there's no heart in it? She’s going to walk away. Period.

Look, if I can offer you a little bit of unsolicited advice—and please, bear with me here—I’d say just take a breath and stop overthinking the whole "how to win women over" thing. Honestly, all that deep philosophy about dating strategies? It’s exhausting. Just be yourself. It sounds like a cliché, I know, I know—don't roll your eyes—but truly, if you're genuine, you'll find someone who actually clicks with you. But—and this is a big "but"—you really do need to check that ego at the door. You have to ditch the narcissism and stop viewing women as nothing more than objects meant to play out your own little sexual fantasies. That’s a dead end, trust me. Just be a decent human being, and things will fall into place.

What exactly led you to the incorrect conclusion that this is my perspective?

This falls right into that specific cultural myth I am discussing: the default assumption among women that men view them purely through a sexual lens. Yet, if a man doesn't lead with that motivation, he is often perceived as strange or unappealing for any relationship involving intimacy, as it implies an emotional dependency.
While generalizing is obviously flawed, one could suggest a general rule: the more a woman maintains her standards and self-respect, the less interested she tends to be in a man as a mere object.

Rebecca Carter8 said:The fundamental hurdle a man has to clear if he wants to spark a woman's interest lies in accepting a harsh reality: she isn't interested in him as a person, but rather as an object of desire—a "thing" she chooses to tolerate within her life structure.

Men are conditioned to believe we shouldn't objectify women, but instead view them as complex individuals with feelings and unique interests, under the assumption that treating them this way will naturally trigger their attraction. In practice, this is quite difficult because many women lack depth beyond their physical appearance, which is often the only thing drawing men toward them in the first place. Consequently, it creates a false impression that any woman who attracts male attention is inherently superficial, if one is forced to operate at that level of nonverbal communication.
The dynamic works identically in reverse. By default, women aren't looking at men as people; rather, a man must actively cultivate that interest by presenting himself as someone valuable enough to be worth having in her life. However, the moment a man reveals his emotional side—especially when he demonstrates actual emotional needs—it shatters the illusion the woman has built around him, leading to a total loss of interest.
Therefore, for a man to successfully win a woman over, he must function as a subject of desire rather than a human being.

Rebecca Carter8 said:What exactly led you to the incorrect conclusion that this is my perspective?

This falls right into that specific cultural myth I am discussing: the default assumption among women that men view them purely through a sexual lens. Yet, if a man doesn't lead with that motivation, he is often perceived as strange or unappealing for any relationship involving intimacy, as it implies an emotional dependency.
While generalizing is obviously flawed, one could suggest a general rule: the more a woman maintains her standards and self-respect, the less interested she tends to be in a man as a mere object.

Based on that bolded sentence right there. Unless... that's not actually how you feel? Looking back at your post history, it certainly seems like it is.
I'll leave some room for the possibility that I misread you, so I apologize if I did.

What's this "default" they have? Or is it the same "default" where he just sees me as a walking set of anatomy?

A rule? Honestly, I’d argue it’s the exact opposite. A woman who doesn't value herself lacks self-respect and thinks her looks are the only thing she has to attract or keep a guy—which means she's just attracting his physical desires.
But a woman who truly knows her worth understands she brings so much more to the table.
Now, the real question is... what does "knowing your worth" actually look like in practice?

Eric Grant3 said:Based on that bolded sentence right there. Unless... that's not actually how you feel? Looking back at your post history, it certainly seems like it is.
I'll leave some room for the possibility that I misread you, so I apologize if I did.

What's this "default" they have? Or is it the same "default" where he just sees me as a walking set of anatomy?

A rule? Honestly, I’d argue it’s the exact opposite. A woman who doesn't value herself lacks self-respect and thinks her looks are the only thing she has to attract or keep a guy—which means she's just attracting his physical desires.
But a woman who truly knows her worth understands she brings so much more to the table.
Now, the real question is... what does "knowing your worth" actually look like in practice?

👍

Eric Grant3 said:Based on that bolded sentence right there. Unless... that's not actually how you feel? Looking back at your post history, it certainly seems like it is.
I'll leave some room for the possibility that I misread you, so I apologize if I did.

What's this "default" they have? Or is it the same "default" where he just sees me as a walking set of anatomy?

A rule? Honestly, I’d argue it’s the exact opposite. A woman who doesn't value herself lacks self-respect and thinks her looks are the only thing she has to attract or keep a guy—which means she's just attracting his physical desires.
But a woman who truly knows her worth understands she brings so much more to the table.
Now, the real question is... what does "knowing your worth" actually look like in practice?

Personally, I’d say it means discovering your own talents and actually putting in the work to develop them.

Back in the day, the priority was often that a woman knew her way around a kitchen and was ready to dedicate herself to the home; people could criticize that if they wanted, but hey, every era has its own set of rules.

Nowadays, everything is just so "fast-paced." Because of that, I guess there’s a bigger emphasis on traits that are immediately obvious—things like looks, being charming, having a great smile, being put-together, financial stability, or social status. People don't go out as much anymore, communication is shorter, and we spend way less time actually socializing and getting to know people deeply. It makes it kind of tough to really discover someone's more subtle strengths.

Even back in elementary school, you can see how some kids focus entirely on grades and studying, while others take a more laid-back approach, focusing more on playing and just enjoying life. It carries over into high school, too; for some, college prep is the main goal, while others are busy discovering talents or becoming the popular crowd—the ones who are super charismatic, rule the social scene, turn heads with their looks, and get compliments constantly.
It isn't really realistic to expect everyone to have the same kind of compatibility when it comes to the opposite sex.
A straight-A student isn't going to compete with the popular jock in certain categories, and vice versa in others.
Also, those girls who were the "it girls" in their youth will probably just keep leaning into those advantages, maybe smoothing out a few flaws if they feel it's necessary, and that's pretty much it.
It all seems pretty logical to me.

Regarding what our colleague wrote: "the more a woman focuses on her appearance, the less interested a man is in her as a person"—I think that's just poorly phrased logic. If we interpret "a woman who takes care of herself" as meaning an attractive woman, then she would likely prioritize someone who is more of a scholar or an intellectual, and those two groups usually come from completely different social circles based on what I mentioned earlier.

For guys who base their identity on intellect rather than those "fast" physical advantages, I think they should continue looking for partners based on intelligence. Finding someone who also happens to be physically stunning is basically like hitting the jackpot on a scratch-off ticket.

Eric Grant3 said:Based on that bolded sentence right there. Unless... that's not actually how you feel? Looking back at your post history, it certainly seems like it is.
I'll leave some room for the possibility that I misread you, so I apologize if I did.

What's this "default" they have? Or is it the same "default" where he just sees me as a walking set of anatomy?

A rule? Honestly, I’d argue it’s the exact opposite. A woman who doesn't value herself lacks self-respect and thinks her looks are the only thing she has to attract or keep a guy—which means she's just attracting his physical desires.
But a woman who truly knows her worth understands she brings so much more to the table.
Now, the real question is... what does "knowing your worth" actually look like in practice?

It isn't, because there is a third category: losing interest in real-life women altogether. Men like that simply stop putting in the effort with women or engaging in male-to-female interactions.

Jeffrey Ramos4 said:I’m all for it. Honestly, I have a lot of respect for people who find themselves forced down certain paths because of their circumstances—those who don't really have any other choice. If we can at least regulate this legally, we can ensure they get access to things like healthcare and basic protections. It’s honestly a total facepalm moment for the human race when we can't provide meaningful work that matches someone's abilities, especially when they actually want to work...

mhm, especially since our whole identity is basically built on being a tourist trap—which, let's face it, we are. I really think countries in our position should stay open to all kinds of options... and I don't just mean sex work, though I won't derail this specific thread. Since tourism is pretty much our entire economy, if we're gonna be this kind of country, we might as well lean into diversifying our "services." Maybe even aim to be a slightly more chill version of the Netherlands. It’s just basic economics, right? Obviously, with the current political climate, that’s a pipe dream, so we'll probably just keep basing our entire economy on waiters, government bureaucrats, and veterans' benefits until the end of time.

Sex workers would finally get some actual safety, and men would have the perfect outlet. A total win-win situation.

briskowl24 said:Back in the day, the priority was often that a woman knew her way around a kitchen and was ready to dedicate herself to the home; people could criticize that if they wanted, but hey, every era has its own set of rules.

Nowadays, everything is just so "fast-paced." Because of that, I guess there’s a bigger emphasis on traits that are immediately obvious—things like looks, being charming, having a great smile, being put-together, financial stability, or social status. People don't go out as much anymore, communication is shorter, and we spend way less time actually socializing and getting to know people deeply. It makes it kind of tough to really discover someone's more subtle strengths.

Even back in elementary school, you can see how some kids focus entirely on grades and studying, while others take a more laid-back approach, focusing more on playing and just enjoying life. It carries over into high school, too; for some, college prep is the main goal, while others are busy discovering talents or becoming the popular crowd—the ones who are super charismatic, rule the social scene, turn heads with their looks, and get compliments constantly.
It isn't really realistic to expect everyone to have the same kind of compatibility when it comes to the opposite sex.
A straight-A student isn't going to compete with the popular jock in certain categories, and vice versa in others.
Also, those girls who were the "it girls" in their youth will probably just keep leaning into those advantages, maybe smoothing out a few flaws if they feel it's necessary, and that's pretty much it.
It all seems pretty logical to me.

Regarding what our colleague wrote: "the more a woman focuses on her appearance, the less interested a man is in her as a person"—I think that's just poorly phrased logic. If we interpret "a woman who takes care of herself" as meaning an attractive woman, then she would likely prioritize someone who is more of a scholar or an intellectual, and those two groups usually come from completely different social circles based on what I mentioned earlier.

For guys who base their identity on intellect rather than those "fast" physical advantages, I think they should continue looking for partners based on intelligence. Finding someone who also happens to be physically stunning is basically like hitting the jackpot on a scratch-off ticket.

Wow, you really painted with a broad brush there, didn't you? So according to your logic: an attractive woman equals a shallow woman, which means she only wants the social butterflies and has zero interest in intellectuals because she doesn't even run in those circles?😵

And then you're implying that nerds are just people who haven't found their talent yet, essentially calling them unattractive!

I don't even want to read the rest of this!🙄

Jamie Adams6 said:mhm, especially since our whole identity is basically built on being a tourist trap—which, let's face it, we are. I really think countries in our position should stay open to all kinds of options... and I don't just mean sex work, though I won't derail this specific thread. Since tourism is pretty much our entire economy, if we're gonna be this kind of country, we might as well lean into diversifying our "services." Maybe even aim to be a slightly more chill version of the Netherlands. It’s just basic economics, right? Obviously, with the current political climate, that’s a pipe dream, so we'll probably just keep basing our entire economy on waiters, government bureaucrats, and veterans' benefits until the end of time.

Sex workers would finally get some actual safety, and men would have the perfect outlet. A total win-win situation.

We could even tie it into medical tourism. Think about it: we have all these day clinics. What happens in them at night? Nothing. They just sit there empty, filled with beds, nursing uniforms, and a whole lot of potentially interesting equipment. Why not introduce "night clinics" to actually make use of the resources we already have sitting idle? 😁

Joseph Bailey41 said:👍

Personally, I’d say it means discovering your own talents and actually putting in the work to develop them.

Some people are just talented at picking a killer neckline and working an exit... ☕