The secret to seduction is objectifying women.

Seems to me those little tactics are just something they do at first while they're measuring things up.

Rebecca Carter8 said:What exactly led you to the incorrect conclusion that this is my perspective?

This falls right into that specific cultural myth I am discussing: the default assumption among women that men view them purely through a sexual lens. Yet, if a man doesn't lead with that motivation, he is often perceived as strange or unappealing for any relationship involving intimacy, as it implies an emotional dependency.
While generalizing is obviously flawed, one could suggest a general rule: the more a woman maintains her standards and self-respect, the less interested she tends to be in a man as a mere object.

I’ve always felt that when it comes to dating women, you really need to just go for it with total honesty. Just ask the direct question: "Are we doing this or not?" Be yourself, don't hold back, and if you're feeling sexual, own that energy.

By being that upfront, you pretty much filter out all the manipulators, the ones constantly running mental math, the overly structured types, the overly guarded ones, or those who are already too busy for anything real.

Once you clear all that out, you're left with women who are free-spirited and open. And for a man who isn't trying to live by someone else's rulebook, that’s pretty much the sweet spot.

Laura Castillo6 said:I’ve always felt that when it comes to dating women, you really need to just go for it with total honesty. Just ask the direct question: "Are we doing this or not?" Be yourself, don't hold back, and if you're feeling sexual, own that energy.

By being that upfront, you pretty much filter out all the manipulators, the ones constantly running mental math, the overly structured types, the overly guarded ones, or those who are already too busy for anything real.

Once you clear all that out, you're left with women who are free-spirited and open. And for a man who isn't trying to live by someone else's rulebook, that’s pretty much the sweet spot.

But I really have to wonder, what kind of women would actually be left standing after a move like that? Maybe just some girls who are way too drunk 🤔
or maybe just professionals providing services for a fee.

She’s telling you they’re just independent, free-spirited women. They aren't out there partying on drugs or working the streets, either.

velvettiger35 said:Some people are just talented at picking a killer neckline and working an exit... ☕

Well, there are certain careers where those skills are practically a job requirement. ☕

Rebecca Carter8 said:The fundamental hurdle a man has to clear if he wants to spark a woman's interest lies in accepting a harsh reality: she isn't interested in him as a person, but rather as an object of desire—a "thing" she chooses to tolerate within her life structure.

Men are conditioned to believe we shouldn't objectify women, but instead view them as complex individuals with feelings and unique interests, under the assumption that treating them this way will naturally trigger their attraction. In practice, this is quite difficult because many women lack depth beyond their physical appearance, which is often the only thing drawing men toward them in the first place. Consequently, it creates a false impression that any woman who attracts male attention is inherently superficial, if one is forced to operate at that level of nonverbal communication.
The dynamic works identically in reverse. By default, women aren't looking at men as people; rather, a man must actively cultivate that interest by presenting himself as someone valuable enough to be worth having in her life. However, the moment a man reveals his emotional side—especially when he demonstrates actual emotional needs—it shatters the illusion the woman has built around him, leading to a total loss of interest.
Therefore, for a man to successfully win a woman over, he must function as a subject of desire rather than a human being.

Don't take advice from women on how men should act to be attractive, or what kind of men they supposedly prefer. It’s not that they’re intentionally lying to you; it’s more that most women—honestly, most of them—don't consciously know what they want. Those participating in forums like this might be a bit more "enlightened," which arguably makes them even more prone to self-deception.

You mention what "we men" are taught, but isn't it more about how you were raised by your parents and how you educate yourself once you hit adulthood? Society's influence is secondary to that. Men are rarely allowed any room for weakness. As for the objectification you're talking about, it goes both ways because everyone is just looking to satisfy their own needs. Men tend to see women as tools for sexual gratification, while women often see men as tools for security—think financial stability or social status.
If you manage to meet a woman's specific needs, even if she claims to be a hardcore feminist, she probably won't care half as much about the objectification she usually complains about.

Donna Doyle2 said:But I really have to wonder, what kind of women would actually be left standing after a move like that? Maybe just some girls who are way too drunk 🤔
or maybe just professionals providing services for a fee.

🤣

And maybe those hardcore political activists passed out at an afterparty while their veins are still pumping a nasty cocktail of MDMA and baking soda.

Honestly, I believe avoiding objectification altogether is the best gift you can give anyone in a relationship. Concepts of gender are almost entirely social constructs—how we view ourselves and how society views us—along with much of what exists in our collective imagination. It’s nearly impossible to truly perceive a person when your vision is clouded by prejudice, expectations, and the mental caricatures we pick up during our upbringing. I say "almost entirely" because there are objective biological traits, though we know it isn't strictly a binary since intersex people exist. Still, most people fall into one category or the other based on those traits. There is also a primal level of physical objectification that isn't just societal; it stems from noticing differences in anatomy early in life. Objectification happens when a body that looks different becomes "the unknown" compared to "the familiar," turning that person into an object of curiosity or attraction. Of course, gender-based objectification isn't the only kind, but it's certainly one of the most pervasive. I'm undecided if this falls under "self vs. other" or "us vs. them" dynamics. 😁

Laura Castillo6 said:I’ve always felt that when it comes to dating women, you really need to just go for it with total honesty. Just ask the direct question: "Are we doing this or not?" Be yourself, don't hold back, and if you're feeling sexual, own that energy.

By being that upfront, you pretty much filter out all the manipulators, the ones constantly running mental math, the overly structured types, the overly guarded ones, or those who are already too busy for anything real.

Once you clear all that out, you're left with women who are free-spirited and open. And for a man who isn't trying to live by someone else's rulebook, that’s pretty much the sweet spot.

This is an absolute truth. It has been proven once again through practical application in extreme circumstances. 👍

Honestly, I think it’s all just one big game. You know what they say—it’s not about being the hottest guy in the room, it’s about being the most persistent one! Plus, those persistent types usually have a much better handle on social cues... like knowing exactly how to break the ice or saying the perfect thing at just the right moment.

I might be oversimplifying things here, but in my experience, everything boils down to action and reaction. Like, you throw something out there to her, and if she’s feeling it, she’ll bite... then you build on that momentum and just see where the wind takes you. That's how you really tell if there's chemistry and which way things are heading.

At the end of the day, these little "games" are what actually build a relationship. Depending on who you're dealing with, it can be super easygoing or totally complicated. Sometimes it’s just natural and flows perfectly, and other times you're definitely playing it smart to make a great impression (and keep them hooked!).

So yeah, social compatibility matters way more than just checking boxes on a checklist. Sure, physical attraction is a start—I mean, let's be real, it helps!—but that’s hardly enough. Everyone should just look inward and reflect on how they actually ended up in their own relationships.

Most of the comments in the original post feel way too stuck in old stereotypes to me. They don't really help solve anything, and they certainly aren't a good roadmap for how to actually flirt successfully.

It's a game! It's meant to be fun! Either you know how to read the room and steer the conversation in the right direction, or you just haven't picked up enough patterns yet... you know, reading the body language, spotting the interest, picking up on those subtle subtexts... all the way up to seeing if you actually want the same things in life.

Yesterday, I reached a significant realization regarding male-female dynamics.
Broadly speaking, I find myself moving away from my initial stance:
The foundation of attraction isn't found in women objectifying men, but rather in a man's ability to clearly articulate his sexual intent toward a woman. This shouldn't be about emotional longing, but strictly sexual desire. Emotional need is always a flawed motivator in a relationship because it stems from the emotional baggage a man carries—baggage he ought to resolve himself rather than seeking solace or a therapist in a woman.
Women are not objects obligated to accept every sexual overture a man makes. Consequently, rejection is perfectly normal, and a man should never take it personally. To do so merely proves he is still lugging around that same emotional baggage, which will inevitably hinder him whenever he attempts to establish a genuine connection with a woman.

Rebecca Carter8 said:Yesterday, I reached a significant realization regarding male-female dynamics.
Broadly speaking, I find myself moving away from my initial stance:
The foundation of attraction isn't found in women objectifying men, but rather in a man's ability to clearly articulate his sexual intent toward a woman. This shouldn't be about emotional longing, but strictly sexual desire. Emotional need is always a flawed motivator in a relationship because it stems from the emotional baggage a man carries—baggage he ought to resolve himself rather than seeking solace or a therapist in a woman.
Women are not objects obligated to accept every sexual overture a man makes. Consequently, rejection is perfectly normal, and a man should never take it personally. To do so merely proves he is still lugging around that same emotional baggage, which will inevitably hinder him whenever he attempts to establish a genuine connection with a woman.

I have to say, I haven't seen anyone on this forum make such massive strides in such a short amount of time. Major props to you. 👍

Joseph Bailey41 said:I have to say, I haven't seen anyone on this forum make such massive strides in such a short amount of time. Major props to you. 👍

I read: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attrac.../dp/B005EOTH24

It completely dismantled every preconceived notion I held; the author is a true master at decoding the complexities of male-female dynamics.