Who are the real gurus?

David Vaughn75 said:One of the dead giveaways that you’re dealing with a legitimate guru is how they constantly bring everything back to God—it’s like their North Star, no matter what else they're discussing.

A total psychopath, though? They can't stand that kind of talk. If anything, they’ll go out of their way to avoid mentioning God altogether just to stay under the radar.

In that case, maybe I am a psychopath. ☕

nimblemarlin6 said:I once dropped by a community out in rural Montana. Their guru, this guy known as unknown, was there. The followers looked at him with this level of reverence that’s honestly hard to put into words.
They told me straight up: "You have to experience unknown."
After the lecture, unknown held a Q&A session. He sat on this chair that looked suspiciously like a throne, while whoever wanted to ask a question had to sit on a tiny little cushion right at his feet. I decided to step up and ask him something, but when I caught his eye, there was nothing there—just completely blank, vacant eyes. I didn't feel any sense of divinity or anything. To be honest, he just seemed like an ordinary guy riding a massive ego trip, fueled by followers who project deep meaning onto him—(and I suspect he's projecting something else entirely back at them).

I follow the whole self-help scene pretty closely, and frankly, I've seen this movie before. There are countless cases where the instructor is just a totally regular person—someone who isn't even teaching what they claim to be divine messages—but the followers start building this mystical aura around them... and then some of them quickly figure out how to, exploit the situation, (kind of like what happened with unknown).

Idolatry really gets under my skin. People try to turn a guru into a god; if they actually succeed for a moment, then what? In ancient times, they might have eaten him, but today... what happens? 🤔

We were raised in a different landscape altogether, so there is simply no sense in attempting to force an American frontier mentality here.

Betty Patel172 said:We were raised in a different landscape altogether, so there is simply no sense in attempting to force an American frontier mentality here.

Tribalistic? 🤔

Joseph Bailey41 said:In that case, maybe I am a psychopath. ☕

Idolatry really gets under my skin. People try to turn a guru into a god; if they actually succeed for a moment, then what? In ancient times, they might have eaten him, but today... what happens? 🤔

Look, if you're some kind of fake guru out there manipulating, lying to, and bleeding your followers dry, then yeah—you're a psychopath.

A plumber talks about pipes, a gardener talks about the soil, and a man of God should be talking about God.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, if you're some kind of fake guru out there manipulating, lying to, and bleeding your followers dry, then yeah—you're a psychopath.

A plumber talks about pipes, a gardener talks about the soil, and a man of God should be talking about God.

I’m not there yet, but I wouldn't mind getting the hang of it. Honestly, after being cheated and fleeced by people for long enough, I feel like it’s about time I balanced the scales a little. 😁

But thanks for the heads-up. If my plan actually works, I’ll make sure to talk about God constantly. Nothing else. That way, if I talk about anything else, people might actually try to fact-check me or prove me wrong... but when it comes to God, I can say whatever I want since nobody's ever actually seen Him. ☕

Joseph Bailey41 said:I’m not there yet, but I wouldn't mind getting the hang of it. Honestly, after being cheated and fleeced by people for long enough, I feel like it’s about time I balanced the scales a little. 😁

But thanks for the heads-up. If my plan actually works, I’ll make sure to talk about God constantly. Nothing else. That way, if I talk about anything else, people might actually try to fact-check me or prove me wrong... but when it comes to God, I can say whatever I want since nobody's ever actually seen Him. ☕

Go ahead and ramble all you want, but playing spiritual guru is probably the heaviest burden a person can ever take on.

If you steal a car, you’re gonna end up losing one too.
If you abuse the role of a spiritual teacher, you’re heading straight to the deepest circle of Hell.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Tribalistic? 🤔

That goes both ways. If someone rolls up from a small town in rural Nebraska and starts preaching about Manitou, people aren't going to buy it. Every culture has its own internal logic; we can respect those traditions without necessarily being able to fully grasp them. It’s much like how a lifelong New Yorker views an outsider, or how someone moving to Chicago might struggle to catch the local rhythm. You can observe, but you won't always understand. 🙄

Betty Patel172 said:That goes both ways. If someone rolls up from a small town in rural Nebraska and starts preaching about Manitou, people aren't going to buy it. Every culture has its own internal logic; we can respect those traditions without necessarily being able to fully grasp them. It’s much like how a lifelong New Yorker views an outsider, or how someone moving to Chicago might struggle to catch the local rhythm. You can observe, but you won't always understand. 🙄

To be honest, I actually find the stories about Manitou much more compelling and meaningful than the stuff they try to sell us here. But hey, to each their own. ☕

To Native Americans—they’ve always been my blueprint for what actual human beings should look like. I’ll never forgive the pale crowd for wiping them out.

ruggedraven36 said:To Native Americans—they’ve always been my blueprint for what actual human beings should look like. I’ll never forgive the pale crowd for wiping them out.

Just curious—how much do you actually know about them, and which tribe did you live with?

Thomas Nelson25 said:It’s a fair question—what does a guru actually represent in Asia, especially with all that Indian culture and Chinese influence mixed in?
Out here in the States, the whole concept is pretty blurry... there isn't really a direct equivalent, right?

Well, at least here in the States, it isn't a mystery. Our local gurus just need to be exceptionally good at one specific thing 😁
http://www.nytimes.com/lifestyle/tech-trends-launching-rockets-from-backyards
And they’ll have a line of followers out the door. Honestly, they'll have plenty of male followers too, since no one can pull off all those stunts alone 😁

Besides him, I actually had the chance to meet this guy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/personality-profiles

And then there's this individual, whom I know personally: http://www.chicagotribune.com/culture/profiles
Given his visitor count, he’s certainly not exactly breaking any popularity records.
If anything, people go out of their way to tear him down in every possible way:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/lifestyle-critiques

I actually know this trio personally:

(The official Catholic response to Lawrence is quite interesting—it manages to be both complimentary and critical at the same time)

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They aren't my "official" gurus or teachers, 😁but I do consider them such because I truly value their lectures.

I have the most respect for Zharak since he’s "certified."

George is definitely the most likable one in my book.🙂

As for young Lawrence, he still has to prove himself since he's essentially a "freelancer"—or rather, self-proclaimed—but being a teacher is a calling that I hold in very high regard.

It bugs me how gurus and teachers in this field are usually portrayed in such a negative light. From an aerial view, it's obvious that everyone needs a teacher, a mentor, an advisor, or if you prefer, a guru.

Of course, you need one if you want to make any real progress in anything, including spirituality.

Sure, a person can grow on their own, but it's certainly going to be slower and much harder than learning from someone who is further along in that specific field.

Ultimately, though, our most important guru is the one within us.😉

Thomas Nelson25 said:It’s a fair question—what does a guru actually represent in Asia, especially with all that Indian culture and Chinese influence mixed in?
Out here in the States, the whole concept is pretty blurry... there isn't really a direct equivalent, right?

Think about the role of an Elder in Eastern Orthodoxy or how monks practice obedience

hiddenpuma75 said:I actually know this trio personally:

(The official Catholic response to Lawrence is quite interesting—it manages to be both complimentary and critical at the same time)

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They aren't my "official" gurus or teachers, 😁but I do consider them such because I truly value their lectures.

I have the most respect for Zharak since he’s "certified."

George is definitely the most likable one in my book.🙂

As for young Lawrence, he still has to prove himself since he's essentially a "freelancer"—or rather, self-proclaimed—but being a teacher is a calling that I hold in very high regard.

It bugs me how gurus and teachers in this field are usually portrayed in such a negative light. From an aerial view, it's obvious that everyone needs a teacher, a mentor, an advisor, or if you prefer, a guru.

Of course, you need one if you want to make any real progress in anything, including spirituality.

Sure, a person can grow on their own, but it's certainly going to be slower and much harder than learning from someone who is further along in that specific field.

Ultimately, though, our most important guru is the one within us.😉

I first met Lawrence back in Zadar, which is why I started that thread about him:

But honestly, he isn’t exactly a true Christian. Instead of marrying some widow with three kids, he goes and picks a model. 😬

Word on the street is that his lady friend dumped him pretty quickly!
Here he is with his boss:

I have no idea how he even pays his bills. When he gave a lecture here in Zadar, there were maybe ten people in the room at most.
I highly doubt he managed to pull in enough donations to even cover the hall rental.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:I first met Lawrence back in Zadar, which is why I started that thread about him:

But honestly, he isn’t exactly a true Christian. Instead of marrying some widow with three kids, he goes and picks a model. 😬

Word on the street is that his lady friend dumped him pretty quickly!
Here he is with his boss:

I have no idea how he even pays his bills. When he gave a lecture here in Zadar, there were maybe ten people in the room at most.
I highly doubt he managed to pull in enough donations to even cover the hall rental.

Women used to go absolutely crazy for Lawrence.
I remember back when he was about 20 and we used to hang out...
In just one hour, he'd get three or four different girls calling his phone...

I heard his lady friend dumped him pretty quickly!
Here he is with his boss:

I heard he got married, but I didn't catch anything about a divorce, though? 😲
Do you have any juicy details? It wouldn't be very polite for me to call him up and ask. 😁

I honestly don't get how he funds himself. Back here in Zadar, there were barely ten people at his lecture.
I highly doubt he managed to pull in enough donations to cover the hall rental.

He was an only child to very elderly parents.
He inherited his wealth early on, though I couldn't tell you the specifics regarding his current financial situation or how he manages his money these days...

Everything he did, he did with such intense passion...
If my enthusiasm for something is a 7 out of 10, his was always a solid 10 out of 10.
True, my own enthusiasm might have dipped to a 5, but I'm still going; his dropped all the way to zero, and he walked away from what he once loved so deeply.

And when it comes to religion, I think he’s still driven by that innate 10-out-of-10 intensity.

I haven't met many people in my life who give 100% of themselves quite like he does.
Most people are aimless, and even those who know what they want rarely commit with that kind of 10-out-of-10 energy.

Once, when I showed up late to one of his lectures and visited that amazing venue for the first time, he actually caught me off guard by introducing me to the crowd as one of the most significant people in his life. I felt incredibly awkward being thrust into the spotlight like that. 🕺

He's definitely over the top!

Since we haven't seen each other in about 15 years and everyone went their separate ways,

but, hey, the brilliant and enlightened Blake says that exaggeration is the only path to the palace of wisdom.

Not Krenino's bookkeeping, though. 😁 🙂

Personally, I feel a certain gag reflex at the mere mention of categories like "guru," "priest," "teacher," or "savior." When I see them surrounded by a crowd of devoted followers who mimic their every move—dressing like them or repeating whatever "wisdom" that hack spewed during some lecture—I feel an impulse to start shouting discipline and telling everyone to just go home; honestly, screw the followers, the cults, and those spiritual teachings, especially when that little magician from Oza is just as lost as you are.

You have books in your own homes; read them and actually practice something. Try applying even two or three things. Be your own light, rather than coming here to worship some idiot who turns himself into a circus act and turns you all into fools.

I suppose this reaction exists because, in previous stages of my life, I respected them immensely, so now the pendulum has swung just as far in the opposite direction. Now, perhaps unintentionally and more instinctively, on a deep, visceral level, I feel like vomiting whenever I hear someone praising them with profound reverence as if they were superhuman beings who possess some special insight into the unknown.

It seems there is something in human nature that craves authority, a force outside oneself, a magical savior, a powerful father, a nurturing mother, or even a benevolent Santa Claus. It’s something infantile, weak, and foolish that prevents people from discovering their own strength, leading them instead to hand it over to some self-proclaimed savior of souls who rambles on about what others should do (for themselves, and of course, for him) just so they can be exactly like him.

This Lawrence of Zadar guy seems a little full of himself to me... he’s always twitching, repeating the same things over and over— he actually claims he’s some kind of special apostle , except he hasn't started shouting hallelujah just yet like that Canadian fellow does...

Chris Williams said:Personally, I feel a certain gag reflex at the mere mention of categories like "guru," "priest," "teacher," or "savior." When I see them surrounded by a crowd of devoted followers who mimic their every move—dressing like them or repeating whatever "wisdom" that hack spewed during some lecture—I feel an impulse to start shouting discipline and telling everyone to just go home; honestly, screw the followers, the cults, and those spiritual teachings, especially when that little magician from Oza is just as lost as you are.

You have books in your own homes; read them and actually practice something. Try applying even two or three things. Be your own light, rather than coming here to worship some idiot who turns himself into a circus act and turns you all into fools.

I suppose this reaction exists because, in previous stages of my life, I respected them immensely, so now the pendulum has swung just as far in the opposite direction. Now, perhaps unintentionally and more instinctively, on a deep, visceral level, I feel like vomiting whenever I hear someone praising them with profound reverence as if they were superhuman beings who possess some special insight into the unknown.

It seems there is something in human nature that craves authority, a force outside oneself, a magical savior, a powerful father, a nurturing mother, or even a benevolent Santa Claus. It’s something infantile, weak, and foolish that prevents people from discovering their own strength, leading them instead to hand it over to some self-proclaimed savior of souls who rambles on about what others should do (for themselves, and of course, for him) just so they can be exactly like him.

Me too. Though, apparently, there are techniques people use to work through that feeling. ☕

David Avocado: Wolf in Critical Condition after Apparent Accidental Crystal Chakra voodoo Overdose

Let’s be real—there isn't a single successful guru out there who doesn't have someone else ready to jump out from the shadows and claim they're the exact opposite of whatever that guru is peddling.