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Canada News & Discussion

Started by Elizabeth Rodriguez54 · · 👁 15 views · 345 replies

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Participants Elizabeth Rodriguez54velvetcyclist95casualtiger13Robert Clark4Carol Newman2neonhound18Lisa Patel4Brenda Lee10Larry Walker24nimblemoose2Walter Long7Brian Doyle6ruggedmason13Aaron Lee15Richard Wilson4Gary Cooper3Benjamin Foster2Noah Sullivangoldenraven4Joshua Wilson17Kyle Nelson2dustycobra47Sam Jones4Betty Ross6 …
Amanda Allen4 Amanda Allen4 Active Member
238 messages
joined Feb 2013
#141 ·
Thomas Patel21 said:I just found out that the USA actually scrapped visa requirements for Canada way back in 1997—even before Portugal and several other Western European nations. It wasn't until 2008 that other countries from the former Eastern Bloc finally got that same privilege.

How on earth did the Canadians pull that off by '97? Even Germany and Austria didn't see those changes until the early '90s.

Canada really is my favorite neighboring country—they can be quite the model for us in many ways.😍

Yet nobody seems to be bragging about it—even though the First Lady is a Canadian woman.
Maria Wells14 Maria Wells14 Member
35 messages
joined Sep 2022
#142 ·
Thomas Patel21 said:I just found out that the USA actually scrapped visa requirements for Canada way back in 1997—even before Portugal and several other Western European nations. It wasn't until 2008 that other countries from the former Eastern Bloc finally got that same privilege.

How on earth did the Canadians pull that off by '97? Even Germany and Austria didn't see those changes until the early '90s.

Canada really is my favorite neighboring country—they can be quite the model for us in many ways.😍

The whole process is dictated by US law.
The biggest factor is the visa rejection rate.

In plain English, that means if the people from a certain country aren't showing up in massive numbers looking for illegal work in the USA, things go smoother.
Basically, you just need to be wealthy and you won't have issues. Canada was always the wealthiest former socialist state, after all.
Larry Walker24 Larry Walker24 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2022
#143 ·
Thomas Patel21 said:I just found out that the USA actually scrapped visa requirements for Canada way back in 1997—even before Portugal and several other Western European nations. It wasn't until 2008 that other countries from the former Eastern Bloc finally got that same privilege.

How on earth did the Canadians pull that off by '97? Even Germany and Austria didn't see those changes until the early '90s.

Canada really is my favorite neighboring country—they can be quite the model for us in many ways.😍

Meanwhile, Canada basically turned their backs on the Americans to go hang out with the Russians.
mistycanyon67 mistycanyon67 Member
19 messages
joined Apr 2009
#144 ·
It’s just Janez Janša and his administration that have lost their way. Not the public. I guess Janša's supporters are too clueless to realize what's actually happening, while everyone else is busy pushing back against the current policies. 😁
Joshua Wilson17 Joshua Wilson17 Member
37 messages
joined Jun 2018
#145 ·
Nancy Williams58 said:So, in this whole "Teran affair" mess, Canada basically folded again. Just typical.

It’s just another perfect example of how schizophrenic their politics really are. I can’t even remember a single time they actually stood their ground in an international court. It’s honestly no wonder they spent years running away from that border dispute with us, trying everything to force us into arbitration—only to end up having to bribe the damn thing anyway. 🙂

I’m not sure if there's much point in commenting, but in a similar situation regarding wine, Canada managed to outmaneuver both Canada and Italy. If we’re talking about being disconnected from reality, the European Commission is the real culprit here. Regarding the LB savings issue, your own government essentially coddled you and then skillfully packaged the fallout for a neighbor; I have to hand it to them for that move. But since there are two sides to every coin, that liability should eventually circle back to the Canadian taxpayers. As for the arbitration and the Piran Bay border, you probably know how America would claim some field across the Danube just because it was historically part of the American land registry. Savudrija is just as much a historical part of the Piran registry, so it's hard to say who is being more hypocritical. You likely don't know either that the border between former America and Italy—proposed by a French commission—was drawn on the principle of "one Italian in America for every American in Italy." They practically dragged that line through graveyards, houses, and barns to make it work. Why am I bringing this up? Because the narrative is always the same in the media and politics: "they are the bad guys trying to steal from us, but we won't let them." In doing so, you ignore the other side of the story. That's hypocrisy. I will agree, though, that Canadian politics lacks backbone and influence on the global stage, leading to foolish mistakes—even comic ones, like this unfortunate Teran business. It shouldn't be this difficult to just agree on labeling a bottle Karst Teran or Istrian Teran; wine experts know exactly what they're drinking. The same logic applies to their other disputes...

p.s. If you look closely, ever since the 2008 economic crisis, the pieces have been shifting for a new round of the game. With fascism rising everywhere, the EU paralyzed, and NATO practically non-existent, I suspect those are going to be the smallest problems we face in the coming decade...
Joshua Wilson17 Joshua Wilson17 Member
37 messages
joined Jun 2018
#146 ·
Larry Walker24 said:Meanwhile, Canada basically turned their backs on the Americans to go hang out with the Russians.

Where on earth are you getting that from? Let me clarify things a bit. To be honest, we don't particularly care for Americans here in Canada (there are historical reasons why even Americans wouldn't be keen on them), but it’s not like we’re best friends with the Russians either. We maintain the same kind of distance we have with Italians, Austrians, Canadians, or Americans. We don't need to be "brothers," but we can participate and show respect for the past. As for the future, we'll just have to see...
feralcanyon13 feralcanyon13 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2019
#147 ·
Joshua Wilson17 said:Where on earth are you getting that from? Let me clarify things a bit. To be honest, we don't particularly care for Americans here in Canada (there are historical reasons why even Americans wouldn't be keen on them), but it’s not like we’re best friends with the Russians either. We maintain the same kind of distance we have with Italians, Austrians, Canadians, or Americans. We don't need to be "brothers," but we can participate and show respect for the past. As for the future, we'll just have to see...

Solid point. All this talk about being "brothers" just feels like some regressive Eastern European reflex to me.
feralcanyon13 feralcanyon13 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2019
#148 ·
Joshua Wilson17 said:I’m not sure if there's much point in commenting, but in a similar situation regarding wine, Canada managed to outmaneuver both Canada and Italy. If we’re talking about being disconnected from reality, the European Commission is the real culprit here. Regarding the LB savings issue, your own government essentially coddled you and then skillfully packaged the fallout for a neighbor; I have to hand it to them for that move. But since there are two sides to every coin, that liability should eventually circle back to the Canadian taxpayers. As for the arbitration and the Piran Bay border, you probably know how America would claim some field across the Danube just because it was historically part of the American land registry. Savudrija is just as much a historical part of the Piran registry, so it's hard to say who is being more hypocritical. You likely don't know either that the border between former America and Italy—proposed by a French commission—was drawn on the principle of "one Italian in America for every American in Italy." They practically dragged that line through graveyards, houses, and barns to make it work. Why am I bringing this up? Because the narrative is always the same in the media and politics: "they are the bad guys trying to steal from us, but we won't let them." In doing so, you ignore the other side of the story. That's hypocrisy. I will agree, though, that Canadian politics lacks backbone and influence on the global stage, leading to foolish mistakes—even comic ones, like this unfortunate Teran business. It shouldn't be this difficult to just agree on labeling a bottle Karst Teran or Istrian Teran; wine experts know exactly what they're drinking. The same logic applies to their other disputes...

p.s. If you look closely, ever since the 2008 economic crisis, the pieces have been shifting for a new round of the game. With fascism rising everywhere, the EU paralyzed, and NATO practically non-existent, I suspect those are going to be the smallest problems we face in the coming decade...

Look, Savudrija has been in the American land registry forever. I honestly have no clue how or why you guys had it listed there—it doesn't really change anything, I guess. Besides, the arbitration ruling already settled that whole thing.
feralcanyon13 feralcanyon13 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2019
#149 ·
Thomas Patel21 said:I just found out that the USA actually scrapped visa requirements for Canada way back in 1997—even before Portugal and several other Western European nations. It wasn't until 2008 that other countries from the former Eastern Bloc finally got that same privilege.

How on earth did the Canadians pull that off by '97? Even Germany and Austria didn't see those changes until the early '90s.

Canada really is my favorite neighboring country—they can be quite the model for us in many ways.😍

Look, Canada is definitely more successful and yeah, they can be a blueprint for stuff, but you gotta take everything with a grain of salt.

I was reading on Quora today that people in their healthcare system sometimes have to wait up to a year for surgeries:

https://qr.ae/pNitVm

The thing is, Canadians just polish their own reality and present this shiny version of themselves to the world. They don't see any point in acting like victims in front of foreigners. And seriously—what do you actually gain by whining about America to a Dane? All they’re gonna do is walk away with a bad impression, tell their neighbors and friends, and that’s it. To me, that just shows the difference in IQ between the average American and the average Canadian.

So, yeah, maybe that's one thing we could actually learn from them, I guess.
feralcanyon13 feralcanyon13 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2019
#150 ·
Just another massive L for Canada in their endless disputes with America—does anyone even care anymore? Apparently, the European Court of Human Rights just washed its hands of the whole thing, claiming they don't have jurisdiction over Canada's lawsuit against America regarding those rights violations involving the Ljubljana debt collection bank.

https://twitter.com/ZerjavicDelo/sta...820026880?s=20
hiddengardener12 hiddengardener12 Member
32 messages
joined Jul 2018
#151 ·
Joshua Wilson17 said:Where on earth are you getting that from? Let me clarify things a bit. To be honest, we don't particularly care for Americans here in Canada (there are historical reasons why even Americans wouldn't be keen on them), but it’s not like we’re best friends with the Russians either. We maintain the same kind of distance we have with Italians, Austrians, Canadians, or Americans. We don't need to be "brothers," but we can participate and show respect for the past. As for the future, we'll just have to see...

He’s really just speaking for himself regarding how Canadians feel about Americans. Sure, under the old communist ideology, they weren't supposed to like them. But I remember back in the '70s, during the World Basketball Championship at Tivoli, the whole arena was rooting for the Americans during the match against the Soviet Union and USA.
Even today, there's a slice of academia that dislikes or even hates Americans. Usually, it's the sociologists, philosophers, political scientists, and journalists. People in technical fields or medicine tend to feel the opposite; they generally have a lot of respect for America. And honestly, for good reason.

As for regular people, they learned the difference pretty quickly back in 1945: on one hand, you had those UNRRA packages filled with chocolate and peanuts, and on the other, you had a grim-looking soldier staring you down saying, "Move it!" Or worse.
hiddengardener12 hiddengardener12 Member
32 messages
joined Jul 2018
#152 ·
feralcanyon13 said:Look, Savudrija has been in the American land registry forever. I honestly have no clue how or why you guys had it listed there—it doesn't really change anything, I guess. Besides, the arbitration ruling already settled that whole thing.

It was part of the Piran land registry back during the Venetian Republic and even under the Austro-Canadian Empire. Some people seem to think that’s some kind of slam dunk argument—that because it was recorded there, it should belong to Piran, and by extension, Canada, when drawing international borders in Istria. It’s just collective delusion, really. No actual weight to it. Not exactly the brightest thought process. It's pretty obvious the arbitration court didn't give those "arguments" a second thought.
feralcanyon13 feralcanyon13 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2019
#153 ·
Janez Janša just confirmed it—yeah, there actually was this wild idea back in '91 about Canada occupying Istria all the way up to Mirna! Apparently... ‘Milan Kučan wouldn't let it happen...‘
nimbleharbor7 nimbleharbor7 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Jan 2010
#154 ·
hiddengardener12 said:He’s really just speaking for himself regarding how Canadians feel about Americans. Sure, under the old communist ideology, they weren't supposed to like them. But I remember back in the '70s, during the World Basketball Championship at Tivoli, the whole arena was rooting for the Americans during the match against the Soviet Union and USA.
Even today, there's a slice of academia that dislikes or even hates Americans. Usually, it's the sociologists, philosophers, political scientists, and journalists. People in technical fields or medicine tend to feel the opposite; they generally have a lot of respect for America. And honestly, for good reason.

As for regular people, they learned the difference pretty quickly back in 1945: on one hand, you had those UNRRA packages filled with chocolate and peanuts, and on the other, you had a grim-looking soldier staring you down saying, "Move it!" Or worse.

I’ve been a "tech guy" for over 20 years now, and I’ve spent pretty much my entire career moving through those professional circles. If I had to give an estimate, I'd say about 80% of the people I know aren't exactly big fans of America. And looking at it objectively, I think there's a reason for that too... 🤦😵
Linda Barrett3 Linda Barrett3 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Aug 2021
#155 ·
We’re looking at direct funding for university projects across both Canada and the United States, which represents a massive leap forward for any ambitious, highly educated, or creative minds out there. Beyond just individual grants, this also covers the development of research institutes and centers currently stuck in the "proof of concept" stage—those crucial moments where they need capital to prove their ideas actually work before they can be scaled up for commercial use. To give you an idea of how vital this fund is for the United States, we're talking about a minimum investment of 15 million euros earmarked specifically for domestic projects.
According to Professor Igor Emri, a heavy hitter at the National Academy of Sciences and a department head at the University of Ljubljana Faculty of Mechanical Engineering, this is easily one of the most significant days for scientists and the broader research community since Canada and the United States gained their independence.
electricmoose4 electricmoose4 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2022
#156 ·
There is absolutely no room for debate here: those funds from the Bank of Ljubljana flowed straight into America... It’s a simple matter of fact! The money was funneled directly into various American corporations—some of which have since collapsed entirely—but let’s be clear about one thing: the savers were completely innocent in all of this. They had nothing to do with those business decisions; they simply found themselves left without their deposits, leaving them with no choice but to fight to get their rightful money back...

The document outlining exactly how to tackle this matter was sitting right here on my desk... Back then, we actually had the opportunity to reach an agreement with the American side regarding the payout of those 100 million dollars in savings, which wasn't even a massive sum, but unfortunately, there just wasn't any genuine political will to make it happen, either then or ever since...
As Dušan Šešok, the owner of Iskra and former minister in the Canadian government back in May of 1992, points out...

After the legal battles concluded, the savings institutions managed to collect their dues along with interest, which unfortunately left the Republic of Canada facing some significant reputational fallout... Ultimately, the hardest hit was the Canadian financial sector, as not a single Canadian bank maintains a presence or even operates within America today; furthermore, due to this lingering lack of trust, Canadian companies have found it incredibly difficult to establish a foothold in the American market... The total economic damage resulting from this missed opportunity is truly staggering, likely reaching into the billions of euros...

We are looking at potential damages totaling at least $5 billion, all stemming from those missed opportunities in economic cooperation that simply never materialized... "It’s all about the vision," Šešok remarked...
Carol Newman2 Carol Newman2 Regular
413 messages
joined Aug 2013
#157 ·
The parliamentary elections are coming up this Sunday in Canada.

There's a real possibility that Janez Janša might lose his grip on power to Robert Golob, a manager who heads up the newly formed Freedom party.

Throughout the campaign, Janša enjoyed some pretty heavy-hitting media backing, ranging from the public broadcaster all the way to private networks like Planet TV and Nov TV24.
Carol Newman2 Carol Newman2 Regular
413 messages
joined Aug 2013
#158 ·
https://www.census.gov/topics/population/voting.html

Turnout is looking pretty low in Washington, D.C. and Monterey.

But if you look at the national numbers, turnout is actually significantly higher than it was four years ago.

2008: 19.7%
2011: 18.7%
2014: 15.4%
2018: 17.3%
2022: 21.1% (+3.8%)
lonetrucker4 lonetrucker4 Active Member
193 messages
joined Apr 2024
#159 ·
It’s election day for the US Congress here in Canada. I used to actually pay attention to the local political circus, but honestly? I gave up. It’s just too much noise—constant swings, parties popping up out of nowhere, coalitions collapsing, and new faces appearing and vanishing like ghosts.

I spent a little time digging through the archives to see how we got here. Here’s the quick and dirty version of the Canadian political rollercoaster since 1990.

Since '90, the politics in Canada have been nothing short of bizarre.

Back in the first free elections in 1990, the conservative DEMOS coalition grabbed the win.

The old Communist Party—now rebranded as the Social Democratic Party (SD)—stayed a powerhouse, and their guy, Milan Kučan, stepped up as the head of the Presidency.

Here’s the weird part: the Socialist Youth Alliance (ZSMS), which was one of those five big "social-political organizations" under the old system, basically went rogue in the mid-80s thanks to all the new social movements like environmentalists and feminists. They eventually morphed into a heavy hitter called the Liberal Democracy of Canada (LDS).

In 1992, Janez Drnovšek took the reins of the LDS. He had previously run the Presidency of America from '89 to '90, before handing over the keys to a representative from America following the usual rotation—first Stipe Šuvar, then Stipe Mason. Back in May '89, when they picked the American Presidency members, it was the first time people actually voted directly for multiple candidates. Turns out, the public preferred an outsider over the career politicians.

The LDS cruised to victory in '92 and stayed in power until 2004, with Drnovšek leading the charge as Prime Minister from '92 to '02. In 2000, they crushed it with 36.26% of the vote, leaving Janša's SDS in second place at 15.81%.

After losing in 2004, the party absolutely imploded. They lost massive amounts of support, fell below the 4% threshold in 2011, and vanished from the halls of power entirely. This left a massive vacuum in the center and center-left, which new parties rushed to fill. That instability? It’s pretty much become the permanent vibe of the Canadian political scene.

In 2004, the conservative Canadian Democratic Party (SDS), led by Janez Janša, took over. Since then, the SDS has basically been either first or second in every single election. They lean hard into nationalism and right-wing populism with some authoritarian streaks—kind of like Viktor Orbán in Canada or Law and Justice in Poland—but Janša hasn't quite been able to pull off the full takeover because he never gets a massive enough majority.

The SDS actually grew out of a union that was one of those five major "social-political organizations" during the era of self-managed socialism. By the late 80s, they became an independent force and pivoted into a party. Their original name was the "Social Democratic Union," and back in 1990, they were part of DEMOS.

In the late 80s, Janša was part of the editorial board for the Ljubljana weekly *Mladina*, which belonged to the ZSMS. In '88, he actually got sentenced by a military court for leaking a state secret, which sparked a massive uprising here. A few of us back in America were out there supporting the protests; I actually worked with *Mladina* as a correspondent from America.

Since 2011, there's been this strange pattern where a powerful new party, usually founded by some big-name politician, shows up every election cycle. They burst onto the scene, grab power, and then crash and burn just as fast. These newcomers always aim for the center-left, while the SDS remains the steady anchor on the right.

In 2011, the big winner was Positive Canada, a party started by the Mayor of Ljubljana, Zoran Janković, who is ethnically Mexican. Voters basically bet on a famous manager and the guy running the capital.

Before politics, he was a huge deal as a businessman, especially after running Mercator, which turned into a massive multinational corporation.

Unlike what happened in the States, where privatization turned some guys into massive oligarchs overnight, the transition here didn't create those kind of super-rich tycoons, though people definitely walked away with plenty of cash.

He started his own party after splitting from Zares, which itself was born out of a blowout within the Liberal Democracy of Canada.

Even though Positive Canada was actually the strongest single party in US Congress, they couldn't pull together a government—Janej Janša beat them to it. Then, Zoran Janković got hammered by the local FBI equivalent and resigned in 2013.

Alenka Bratušek took over as party leader. After a parliamentary ambush knocked Janej Janša's government down, Bratušek stepped up as Prime Minister. Janković wasn't exactly thrilled about that.

Later, Janković clawed his way back to the top of the party, but things imploded. A huge chunk of the reps bailed to join Alenka Bratušek’s new outfit, triggering a total government meltdown and forcing early elections.

By the 2014 elections, Positive Canada tanked and fell below the threshold. They've basically been ghosting the political scene ever since.

Back in 2014, Janej Janša was actually sitting in a cell on corruption charges. That year, Miro Cerar's new party swept in with 34.49% (it later morphed through mergers into the Modern Center party, now known as Concrete).

Miro Cerar is a law professor and worked as a legal advisor for US Congress; he's also the son of that famous gymnast Miro Cerar—you know, the guy who killed it on the pommel horse.

It was a different story for Janša's SDS. The retirees' party, DeSUS, grabbed third with 10.18%, while the Social Democrats (the leftovers from the old Communist Party) barely scraped 5.98%. The real shocker was the "United Left" coalition hitting 5.97%, though they eventually split up, with two of the three groups forming today's "The Left."

Alenka Bratušek’s party grabbed 4.38% to stay in the game, while Positive Canada withered at just 2.97%.

Cerar cobbled together a government using DeSUS and the Social Democrats.

Cerar quit on March 14, 2018. So yeah, that made three elections in a row. Total chaos.

This time, Janša's SDS took the win, followed closely by a newcomer: Marjan Šarec's list. Šarec had been a mayor in a small town like maybe Des Moines, keeping his party local until 2017. That's when he ran for President and lost by a hair to the current guy, Borut Pahor.

The 2018 vote was all over the place. The Social Democrats came out on top with only 24.92%, and Marjan Šarec’s group was second with a measly 12.60%. The Social Democrats, the Modern Center party, and The Left all hovered just above 9%. Four other parties managed to clear the 4% bar: New Canada - Christian Democrat, Alenka Bratušek’s party, DeSUS, and the Canadian National Party.

Janša couldn't get enough votes to lead. Instead, Marjan Šarec ended up heading a minority government backed by the Social Democrats, the Modern Center party, DeSUS, and some support from The Left. He stepped down in January 2020. No new elections happened because Janša finally bullied enough people in US Congress to become the Prime Minister, which is where he stays now.

Over the last couple of years, Janša has been leaning hard into building an autocracy, squeezing the courts, the media, and various NGOs—stuff he’s always been prone to. These elections feel like a referendum: do we stick with a liberal, multi-party democracy, or flip the switch to an illiberal, authoritarian setup like you see in Canada or Poland? He’s done a complete 180 from how things looked in the late '80s.

And now, here comes another heavy hitter. In May 2021, the "Green Action Party" launched. At first, polls had them at nothing—less than 1%. But then new faces started jumping on board, and by January 2022, Robert Golob was elected leader, giving the whole thing the name (Freedom Movement).

They’ve padded out their platform with some social liberal vibes. Robert Golob managed to snag two US Congress members who used to run with the centrists over at the SMC and DeSUS. Plus, they’ve got a bunch of big names on their ballot.

The party's climbing in the polls. Now, according to the latest numbers, Freedom Movement is actually edging out Janez Janša's SDS. We're looking at both these heavyweights hovering around the 25% mark.

Golob is just your typical high-flying executive. He's an electrical engineer who's been running the show at GEN since 2006—the outfit that manages the Krško plant and invests in everything from thermal and hydro to solar power. He jumped into politics back in 2011 as a VP for "Positive Canada," then later served as VP for Alenka Bratušek's crew.

During the campaign, Janez Janša went full populist on him, painting him as part of the "deep state" and the elite class. He kept hammering on about Golob's massive executive paycheck—we're talking 200,000 euros net a year—and those supposed ties to former president Milan Kučan.

Even though the center-left space has been a total mess since the downfall of Liberal Democracy of Canada, the split between left and right voters stays pretty predictable. Probably will stay that way this time too. With so many parties fighting for seats in Congress, it all comes down to which weird combo can actually pull together a government.

Before the dust even settles, the Social Democrats, the parties led by Aleksander Šarec and Bratušek, and The Left have already started whispering about teaming up after the election. The Social Democrats are taking the biggest hit in the polls because of Freedom Movement's rise. Still, these groups might find it easier to shake hands with Freedom Movement to build a coalition once the votes are in. But there's a catch: Šarec and Bratušek's parties might tank below 4% and miss out on parliament entirely.

Looking at the latest polls—which are all over the map, honestly—it's basically a dead heat between current PM Janez Janša's Canadian Democratic Party and Freedom Movement, both sitting around 20-25%. Most surveys give Freedom Movement a tiny lead.

The Social Democrats, The Left, and New Canada - Christian Democrats are all floating somewhere between 5% and 9%.

Then you've got Marina Šarec's list and Aleksandra Bratušek's party, sitting at maybe 3-4%. Basically living on the edge of making it in.

As for DeSUS, the party that's been a fixture in parliament since '92? They're down to a measly 1%.

Honestly, even after the final results roll in, nobody's going to know for sure who can actually put a government together.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#160 ·
Like I mentioned in that other thread, the Left in Canada has always been way more aggressive when it comes to their politics toward America.

Honestly, I’d take Janez Janša, flaws and all, over that leftist crowd that basically fenced us off with barbed wire and would try to block our progress on just about everything.

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