AARP (and related discussions on Swiss Franc loans) (II)

Hey there, I’m also looking for some leads on reliable lawyers or expert witnesses over in Cleveland. If you don't want to post details publicly, feel free to shoot me a DM instead. Much appreciated.

Quick question for anyone in the loop?
So, now that the Supreme Court finally weighed in, are we looking at a lawsuit just for the interest, or can I go after both the interest and that whole Currency clause mess

Hey there,

Can someone who actually knows what's going on break this down for me? I'm a total newbie when it comes to all these lawsuits regarding Swiss Franc Loans, and I’m feeling pretty lost... Basically, back in 2008, I took out a Swiss Franc Loan for about $75,000. Then in 2015, I did a conversion to turn it into a standard Dollar loan—the bank basically recalculated everything as if it had been a Dollar loan from the start and offered me a payout for the overpaid difference from when it was still a Swiss Franc loan. I used that extra cash to pay the whole thing off early, which actually shaved two years off my term since it was supposed to run until 2017... By doing that, instead of paying roughly $12,500 in interest, I ended up only paying about $11,800.

So, looking at all this legal stuff happening now, which part of my situation would even be eligible for a lawsuit, and what kind of amount could I realistically be looking at for a claim...

Honestly, reading through all these questions, I’m not even surprised that banks are betting on the fact that most people won't bother suing.

Look, there’s already a class-action judgment where eight different banks were sued and they lost—both on the interest and the Currency clause. As of yesterday, it’s officially clear that those who had their loans converted can also file suit.

Basically, anyone who took out a Swiss Franc Loan from those eight banks has an excellent shot at winning their case. Just a heads-up, though: the statute of limitations for interest on all those banks except Wells Fargo or Chase kicks in on June 12, 2019.

So, if you're actually thinking about taking legal action, you better move fast.

velvetcobra3 said:Hey there,

Can someone who actually knows what's going on break this down for me? I'm a total newbie when it comes to all these lawsuits regarding Swiss Franc Loans, and I’m feeling pretty lost... Basically, back in 2008, I took out a Swiss Franc Loan for about $75,000. Then in 2015, I did a conversion to turn it into a standard Dollar loan—the bank basically recalculated everything as if it had been a Dollar loan from the start and offered me a payout for the overpaid difference from when it was still a Swiss Franc loan. I used that extra cash to pay the whole thing off early, which actually shaved two years off my term since it was supposed to run until 2017... By doing that, instead of paying roughly $12,500 in interest, I ended up only paying about $11,800.

So, looking at all this legal stuff happening now, which part of my situation would even be eligible for a lawsuit, and what kind of amount could I realistically be looking at for a claim...

Just take the original installment and interest, then calculate the difference for every single payment you've made. On top of that little gap, you can also expect to tack on default interest for every one of those installments.

Peter Palmer said:Just take the original installment and interest, then calculate the difference for every single payment you've made. On top of that little gap, you can also expect to tack on default interest for every one of those installments.

That’s basically what I was thinking too... because everywhere you look, people are just buzzing about how you can sue over interest rates and exchange rates... But wait, interest AND exchange rates?!?!? Then I dug a little deeper and realized that if the interest rate actually went up, that's when you might have a case... In my situation, mine actually went down, it didn't go up... I guess that's just because I was one of the last ones to grab a Swiss Franc Loan before things shifted...

So now I’m honestly sitting here wondering if I even have a leg to stand on if my interest rate stayed flat... I mean, I get that the whole thing is based on calculating the difference from the original annuity for every payment...

People say all sorts of stuff, even claiming you can sue to prove the contract was void and get back every cent of interest paid, which sounds way too good to be true... Like, as if the whole agreement just disappears and everyone just hands back whatever they received...

Karen Doyle72 said:https://money.usnews.com/news/articles/example-link-about-legal-mess/8682824/

Basically, the Supreme Court ruled that just because a consumer signed an amendment to their loan agreement—you know, to switch everything over to USD—it doesn't mean they lose their legal standing to challenge whether specific terms in the original loan were actually illegal or void from the start. According to the court's reasoning, if a contract is void by law, it's dead on arrival the moment it's signed. Even if the reason it was void disappears later, the contract doesn't suddenly become valid again unless you meet some super specific, rare exceptions under the Civil Code, which clearly aren't happening here.

The court’s whole point is that consumers absolutely have a legal interest in proving certain clauses are void so they can actually fight for the money they think they're owed. They basically called out the lower courts for being totally wrong when they claimed people couldn't sue just because they signed a follow-up amendment to change the terms. Like, seriously? Total logic fail.

Big shoutout to AARP. 🙏
And hey, what's up to all my buddies in Bohacek's crew from the first part of this thread! 🙂
Even with a broken justice system like ours, you guys still managed to be dead wrong. Can you even wrap your heads around how much you missed the mark here?

Thanks, right back at you.

We need to figure out if the interest rate actually went up from the original starting point.
And if it did—what was the benchmark used?
-Standard stuff like LIBOR, EURIBOR, or Treasury bills are legally defined, whereas any changes made just by a bank's internal decision
aren't legally binding—not since they had to align everything with EU regulations.
-If the rate was lowered compared to the start, or if it stayed exactly the same, I don't see much ground
for a lawsuit, since a fixed interest rate is perfectly legal.

The statute of limitations on the Currency clause starts running in 2021, if I recall correctly.

P.S. One of the major banks here in the US has already started setting aside reserves
to cover the losses from all those lost lawsuits.

Keep fighting, folks. 😁

Timothy Kim9 said:We need to figure out if the interest rate actually went up from the original starting point.
And if it did—what was the benchmark used?
-Standard stuff like LIBOR, EURIBOR, or Treasury bills are legally defined, whereas any changes made just by a bank's internal decision
aren't legally binding—not since they had to align everything with EU regulations.
-If the rate was lowered compared to the start, or if it stayed exactly the same, I don't see much ground
for a lawsuit, since a fixed interest rate is perfectly legal.

The statute of limitations on the Currency clause starts running in 2021, if I recall correctly.

P.S. One of the major banks here in the US has already started setting aside reserves
to cover the losses from all those lost lawsuits.

Keep fighting, folks. 😁

That’s exactly how I’m looking at it too—it seems like you only have a real case if the bank illegally jacked up the interest rate while we were paying it off, based on those specific reasons you mentioned. But honestly, I'm still a little fuzzy on one thing... are we talking about the original Swiss Franc loan, or the converted Euro version, or does it apply to both? It feels more logical that it would be the Euro, since the difference between the old CVH and the Euro was already settled during the conversion process...

Branko

Interest rates have nothing to do with the currency—at least in my book.
(Look, I’m no lawyer, so don't take my legal expertise as gospel
it's just pocket change), but this applies to EVERY currency out there.

By the way, American laws don't really recognize the concept of "fixing
a bad contract." If you follow the letter of the law, it should look like this:
-they give me what I gave them, and I give them what they gave me.

(Not that it'll actually work that way)

Anyway, here’s what’s going down over in Mexico

http://www.seebiz.eu/sud-banke-da-do...avi/ar-192027/

Greetings.

Has anyone here actually requested the documentation from ZAG required for a Swiss Franc loan lawsuit?
How long did it take them to actually send it over?

Greetings.

Has anyone here actually requested the paperwork from ZAG that's required for a Swiss Franc loan lawsuit?
How long did it take them to actually send it over?

Aaron Newman2 said:Greetings.

Has anyone here actually requested the paperwork from ZAG that's required for a Swiss Franc loan lawsuit?
How long did it take them to actually send it over?

It took about a month. You submit the request, and then they call you to come pick up the files.

I’m looking for a lawyer recommendation in Miami. I can send details via DM. I have all my papers ready and am getting set to file the suit. Does anyone know any lawyers in Miami who specialize in this?

Back to the dark ages—anyone remember the Rohatinski mess? (It’s old news,
but definitely not forgotten)

I just wrapped up a consultation with my attorney regarding the lawsuit against Addiko Bank.
So far, it looks like a pretty solid win for those of us dealing with converted loans when it comes to the interest rates; we're just waiting on the Supreme Court to weigh in on the exchange rate issue, but my lawyer is feeling optimistic that their ruling will swing in our favor too. Basically, we need to file a claim that covers both the interest and the exchange rate simultaneously. He did warn me, though, that suing to have the entire contract declared void is incredibly risky, so he’s advising against that route for now. As for the costs, legal fees are sitting around $2000 and court costs should run somewhere between 3,000 and $3333, depending on how much we're actually suing for. The good news is that if we win the case, all those expenses get reimbursed to us. The attorney takes a 10% commission on the winnings. Anyway, I’ve got all my paperwork in order and I've officially kicked off the process with my lawyer.

Patrick Carter5 said:I just wrapped up a consultation with my attorney regarding the lawsuit against Addiko Bank.
So far, it looks like a pretty solid win for those of us dealing with converted loans when it comes to the interest rates; we're just waiting on the Supreme Court to weigh in on the exchange rate issue, but my lawyer is feeling optimistic that their ruling will swing in our favor too. Basically, we need to file a claim that covers both the interest and the exchange rate simultaneously. He did warn me, though, that suing to have the entire contract declared void is incredibly risky, so he’s advising against that route for now. As for the costs, legal fees are sitting around $2000 and court costs should run somewhere between 3,000 and $3333, depending on how much we're actually suing for. The good news is that if we win the case, all those expenses get reimbursed to us. The attorney takes a 10% commission on the winnings. Anyway, I’ve got all my paperwork in order and I've officially kicked off the process with my lawyer.

Did you end up requesting any specific documentation from the bank?
Were there any hiccups along the way, and how long did you have to wait for everything to move forward?

And... if you don't mind me asking, what specifically did you request from them—did you go for all five points or just a few?

My old contact over at Hypo refused to hand over my paperwork, claiming
it’s all tied up in a closed loan.
Anyway, I’ve handed the whole thing over to my lawyer—because let's face it,
those banksters aren't going to budge unless the Court orders them to turn over the files.

Has anyone actually received a calculation where default interest was applied individually to every single payment made up to the settlement date? I’ve come across two different court expert reports where this wasn't factored in, and frankly, it makes a massive difference. The Franks movement calculator (which is offline right now) accounted for that interest, and that’s how I’m calculating it too. It’s basic logic: default interest should accrue from the moment the overpayment occurs, and that date changes with every single payment. You can only draw a line and calculate a final total for further interest once the debt stops growing—either through final payoff or conversion (if the lawsuit covers the period up to conversion).

I should point out that you shouldn't blindly trust these calculations, even when they come from a court-appointed expert. I personally reviewed an expert report regarding overpaid interest prepared by a permanent court expert that was flawed in several areas, causing significant damage to the plaintiff. In another report, the principal overpayment during the final debt settlement was only factored into the exchange rate difference calculation. If you're filing one massive lawsuit, it might not matter much, but if you're suing specifically for overpaid interest, the plaintiff loses out on the portion of the principal overpayment caused by interest rate shifts rather than just currency fluctuations.

Zachary Collins2 said:Did you end up requesting any specific documentation from the bank?
Were there any hiccups along the way, and how long did you have to wait for everything to move forward?

And... if you don't mind me asking, what specifically did you request from them—did you go for all five points or just a few?

I asked for the transaction history, my payment records, the interest rate adjustments, and the updated repayment schedule.
I actually put that request in during the very first month, and it took about twenty days to finally get everything back.