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Ego vs. Spirituality

Started by mistybison · · 👁 14 views · 171 replies

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Participants mistybisonJoseph Bailey41hiddenhound3Betty Wells16feralrangerJohn Robinson9wearyowl29Gregory Carter67Melissa Stewart6Daniel Castillo11Jamie Davis9Paul Rogers94Megan Patel69casualtiger2amberpuma8hollowpuma762darkravenThomas Nelson25Justin Baker6Justin Garcia7mellowtiger7Jacob Cooper5Elizabeth Castillo87urbanhawk28 …
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 Regular
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#141 ·
casualtiger2 said:God, the amount of nonsense and garbage floating around this forum is unreal. Every time I visit, I feel this growing urge to just wash my hands of the whole thing.
Poor guys—women have been feeding them complexes for decades now, and honestly, it's going to lead humanity straight into the ground.

I mean, they should have been suppressed for at least 10,000 years just like men did to them (and even then, the world is still a mess), then maybe we could start talking about equality or this "inability to realize themselves as women" stuff.
PS
Joseph Bailey41, here's the gist—this guy thinks patriarchy was ordained by God and that women are second-class citizens (which isn't true, they're just slightly different; as long as they cover up with a veil or a burqa and stay home watching soap operas while guarding their virginity, everything is fine).
On politics, though—the guy is a total follower of that stable, "covfefe"-style fool.

Oh, come on, give me a break!

Men commit 78% of suicides.

Men make up 68% of the homeless population.

80% of murder victims are men.

98% of military casualties are men.

92% of workplace injuries involve men.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#142 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Oh, come on, give me a break!

Men commit 78% of suicides.

Men make up 68% of the homeless population.

80% of murder victims are men.

98% of military casualties are men.

92% of workplace injuries involve men.



😁
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#143 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Oh, come on, give me a break!

Men commit 78% of suicides.

Men make up 68% of the homeless population.

80% of murder victims are men.

98% of military casualties are men.

92% of workplace injuries involve men.

I guess those wars were totally necessary—that women just initiated them and forced men to kill each other.

Back in 1971, women finally gotthe Swiss Vote(in the canton of Vermont, not until 1990!)
Joseph Bailey41 Joseph Bailey41 Veteran
1K messages
joined Apr 2021
#144 ·
casualtiger2 said:I guess those wars were totally necessary—that women just initiated them and forced men to kill each other.

Back in 1971, women finally gotthe Swiss Vote(in the canton of Vermont, not until 1990!)

Back in 1985, women finally gained the freedom to open their own bank accounts and land jobs without needing their husbands' permission first.
🎉
mistywalker16 mistywalker16 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2019
#145 ·
One of the leading critics of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, actually took things a step further by arguing that feminists harbor such deep-seated resentment toward men that they end up loathing any woman who refuses to join the fray. Her take? "No group of women can wage a war against men without simultaneously disparaging the women who respect them."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#146 ·
mistywalker16 said:One of the leading critics of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, actually took things a step further by arguing that feminists harbor such deep-seated resentment toward men that they end up loathing any woman who refuses to join the fray. Her take? "No group of women can wage a war against men without simultaneously disparaging the women who respect them."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers

The book didn't exactly land with everyone—reviews were pretty split. In conservative publications— ...like National Review, People were actually singing the praises of *The War against boys*. It’s being hailed as a stinging indictment of this anti-male movement—you know, the one that’s basically been running wild in our school systems lately. It points out a massive problem that we seriously need to fix, pronto. Writing in The New York Times, Richard Bernstein called it a "thoughtful, provocative book"—basically saying Sommers laid out her arguments persuasively, unflinchingly, and backed them up with actual data instead of just vibes. Then you've got Joy Summers over at The Journal of School Choice, who argued that Sommers’ book and her whole public persona act as a much-needed antidote to the junk science fueling the totally irrational, hyper-ideological national debate over "women’s issues." Even Publishers Weekly suggested her conclusions are compelling and deserve an unbiased hearing, though they did note... Sommers tends to get pretty petty—she really leans into the mudslinging whenever she goes after her critics. It’s similar to what happened in a review from Booklist; they noted that even though she makes some solid points about how boys are struggling in the classroom, nobody is going to be convinced that the blame lies solely with the American Association of University Women, Carol Gilligan, Mary Pipher, or William S. Pollack—all of whom she takes aim at quite harshly. In the end, the review basically argued that Sommers is just as much of a doom-and-gloom alarmist as the people she’s attacking.[66]

Reviewing The War against boys for The New York Times, Child psychiatrist Robert Coles noted that while Sommers talks a big game about our kids, she hasn't actually gone out and met them—instead, she leans on people who have spent real time working with boys and girls. In doing so, she’s pretty quick to dismiss Carol Gilligan's theories on girls and William S. Pollack's work on boys. Much of the book, according to Coles, comes across as Sommers's strongly felt War against those Two prominent psychologists, Who have spent years Trying to learn How Young men and Women grow to adulthood in The United States.Reviewing the book for The New Yorker, Nicholas Lemann wrote that Sommers basically sets a much higher bar for the people she’s targeting than she ever does for herself—it’s almost unfair. She uses this weird, ambush-style way of arguing where she corners someone, demanding data and answers on the spot. Then, once they’re left stammering and totally caught off guard, she just turns around and claims a massive victory. It's a classic "gotcha" move. Nicholas Lemann called out Sommers—basically pointing out the hypocrisy in her accusing Gilligan of relying too much on anecdotes when her own work is built on that very same shaky foundation. He also noted a bunch of claims she made that just weren't backed up by her own footnotes.[68]

Writing in The Washington Post, E. Anthony Rotundo stated that Ultimately, Sommers—well, she just doesn't actually prove there's some kind of "war against boys" going on. Her whole argument basically boils down to this: feminists are out to get her "boys will be boys" take on childhood, just like she’s coming for their much more fluid version of growing up. Rotundo argues that Sommers’s title “is not just wrong but inexcusably misleading... a work of neither dispassionate social science nor reflective scholarship; it is a conservative polemic.”[69]

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________

Christina Hoff Sommers

With a B.A. from NYU and a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Brandeis, Sommers calls herself a classical liberal and a Democrat. But let's be real—despite how much she insists otherwise, it’s pretty obvious she’s a conservative anti-feminist. She essentially helped build the modern anti-feminist movement (alongside Warren Farrell) and works for a GOP-leaning think tank that basically serves up pseudo-academic excuses for right-wing policies. It says a lot about her MRA followers that they conveniently ignore any "liberal" label she tries to claim.

Honestly, if you want a masterclass in brilliant propaganda, just look at her entire career following "Who Stole Feminism?" The fact that well-meaning conservatives actually believe she’s a legitimate feminist—rather than someone playing a game of "embrace, extend, and extinguish"—really shows how successful American conservatism has been at undermining American feminism.

TL😁R? She’s basically on the Koch payroll.
...
Both "Who Stole Feminism?" and "The War against boys" argue that modern feminism ditched true gender equality in favor of some vague concept of "justice," which supposedly left a whole generation of men being vilified. But Sommers's argument doesn't hold water. She consistently twists scholarly debates, ignores any data that doesn't fit her narrative, and goes after studies she dislikes while giving a total pass to the ones she likes.[13]

...
You’re constantly hearing about how C.H. uses lazy, manufactured stats to back her claims. She was called out for this as far back as 1994,[16] but if you want a slam dunk, check out her video on rape statistics.[17] She picked a year with the lowest rape rates of the last decade to cite. Plus, she takes an annual statistic and compares it to lifetime figures without even bothering to explain the jump.

Then there’s her video on women in STEM.[18] Most of her argument is just standard conservative talking points, (check out that condescending video title, "The REAL Reason There Aren't More Female Scientists"). Everything from hinting that women shy away from certain STEM fields due to biology (something Steven Pinker touches on, though not nearly as hard as she does) to assuming that because women *are* present in some STEM areas, discrimination couldn't possibly exist in others. I mean, the tech industry is barely 10% female.[19] That assumption—that gender discrimination is a non-issue—is classic American right-wing logic; admitting otherwise would force them to overhaul their entire worldview.

If you’re anywhere outside the reactionary anti-feminist bubble, it’s becoming glaringly obvious. When someone claims to be a feminist and a gender studies professor, yet engages in this level of blatant lying by omission—which, let's face it, she shouldn't be doing given her philosophy background—it looks like pure political manipulation. At this point, it feels less like she’s just being careless and more like she’s intentionally using sophistry to push a specific agenda.
...
"Rape hysteria"
...
Views on modern feminism
...
Sommers was among the small group of people willing to stick up for Michelle Fields—that Breitbart reporter who got shoved around by a Trump staffer during a campaign rally. Naturally, the reaction from the GamerGate crowd was pretty underwhelming.[42]
...
Rachel Walker3 Rachel Walker3 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2019
#147 ·
How am I supposed to let go of the past when I'm just trying to be certain about everything I've learned so far
mistywalker16 mistywalker16 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2019
#148 ·
Rachel Walker3 said:How am I supposed to let go of the past when I'm just trying to be certain about everything I've learned so far

You don't need to 'die.' Just write a book, or back 'everything' up onto a thumb drive or a DVD (make sure you have at least three copies stored in different places). 😉
Rachel Walker3 Rachel Walker3 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2019
#149 ·
mistywalker16 said:You don't need to 'die.' Just write a book, or back 'everything' up onto a thumb drive or a DVD (make sure you have at least three copies stored in different places). 😉

Are we living in a competitive society?
mistywalker16 mistywalker16 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2019
#150 ·
Rachel Walker3 said:Are we living in a competitive society?

If we’ve started using "competition" as a polite euphemism for pure, unadulterated greed, then yeah—absolutely.
It’s basically just a race to see who can grab the biggest slice of whatever is on the table.

We are looking at an absolute "epidemic" of chronic inflammation in the "greed gland."
Since we're talking about spirituality versus the ego here, I’d go as far as calling that kind of avarice a "cancer of the soul."
Rachel Walker3 Rachel Walker3 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2019
#151 ·
mistywalker16 said:You don't need to 'die.' Just write a book, or back 'everything' up onto a thumb drive or a DVD (make sure you have at least three copies stored in different places). 😉

mistywalker16 said:If we’ve started using "competition" as a polite euphemism for pure, unadulterated greed, then yeah—absolutely.
It’s basically just a race to see who can grab the biggest slice of whatever is on the table.

We are looking at an absolute "epidemic" of chronic inflammation in the "greed gland."
Since we're talking about spirituality versus the ego here, I’d go as far as calling that kind of avarice a "cancer of the soul."

Maybe we only exist, left to our own devices, so we can actually figure out who we are. I guess. 😵
mistywalker16 mistywalker16 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2019
#152 ·
Rachel Walker3 said:Maybe we only exist, left to our own devices, so we can actually figure out who we are. I guess. 😵

Exactly—which is why that wise old Greek fellow used to say:

"Know thyself" 🙂
Rachel Walker3 Rachel Walker3 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2019
#153 ·
mistywalker16 said:Exactly—which is why that wise old Greek fellow used to say:

"Know thyself" 🙂

That was actually Krishnamurti, but whatever, 🙏
mistywalker16 mistywalker16 Member
17 messages
joined Nov 2019
#154 ·
Well, it looks like both of them eventually stumbled upon the exact same truth:
Quincy:
.. "Know thyself" ..
http://www.britannica.com/topic/self-knowledge
Rachel Walker3 Rachel Walker3 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2019
#155 ·
Quincy:
mistywalker16 [No input provided to rewrite]
So, I guess they both ended up landing on the same conclusion:

I'm pretty familiar with Socrates' life and work, I guess.👍I respect him a ton, I guess. Just saying that sentence was ripped straight from a Krishnamurti speech.👍
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 Regular
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#156 ·
casualtiger2 said:I guess those wars were totally necessary—that women just initiated them and forced men to kill each other.

Back in 1971, women finally gotthe Swiss Vote(in the canton of Vermont, not until 1990!)

First off:

You're missing the point entirely—here's what she actually means:

Let's be honest: life is tough for every man and woman out there. It’s just one of those inescapable realities of being alive.

It’s true—life isn't exactly an even playing field, and some people definitely deal with a heavier load than others. But at the end of the day, every man and woman faces their own unique set of trials, both those tied to gender and those that have nothing to do with it.

Complaining to women that they are too pale. 🙄 To claim that men in positions of power are inherently to blame for everything—or that life is simply easier for guys and harder for women—is a massive oversimplification. In most real-world scenarios, that kind of sweeping generalization just doesn't hold up.

Everything is so deeply interconnected, and there are just so many unknowns, that it feels almost reductive to paint men as the perpetual instigators of war while casting women merely as the creators of flowers and butterflies. 🙂 🎉 🙂 We're looking at this from the perspective of elementary school students and kids up to about 13 years old.

Your attempt to pin the blame for wars on those terrible men is just as ridiculous as it would be if I tried to argue that mothers are the ones responsible for wars because they raised those men. 🙄 Honestly, if they had truly embraced their roles as mothers and women, they wouldn't have raised such flawed men—the very same men their own daughters are now calling out for being so problematic. 🙄

By the way, conflict is just a natural, unavoidable part of being human. It’s really at the root of so many things.

It’s pretty obvious that some problems just can't be solved any other way than through pure, unadulterated struggle. Sometimes, you're fighting for your very life. That’s just the reality of things—it was true back in the days of America, it's true across the globe today, and it'll be true long after we're gone.

Of course, just because someone wins doesn't mean they're automatically "right." But hey, at least they proved they were the better fighter. To me, that’s still a step up from endless, empty chatter or just settling for the status quo.
Joseph Bailey41 Joseph Bailey41 Veteran
1K messages
joined Apr 2021
#157 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:First off:

You're missing the point entirely—here's what she actually means:

Let's be honest: life is tough for every man and woman out there. It’s just one of those inescapable realities of being alive.

It’s true—life isn't exactly an even playing field, and some people definitely deal with a heavier load than others. But at the end of the day, every man and woman faces their own unique set of trials, both those tied to gender and those that have nothing to do with it.

Complaining to women that they are too pale. 🙄 To claim that men in positions of power are inherently to blame for everything—or that life is simply easier for guys and harder for women—is a massive oversimplification. In most real-world scenarios, that kind of sweeping generalization just doesn't hold up.

Everything is so deeply interconnected, and there are just so many unknowns, that it feels almost reductive to paint men as the perpetual instigators of war while casting women merely as the creators of flowers and butterflies. 🙂 🎉 🙂 We're looking at this from the perspective of elementary school students and kids up to about 13 years old.

Your attempt to pin the blame for wars on those terrible men is just as ridiculous as it would be if I tried to argue that mothers are the ones responsible for wars because they raised those men. 🙄 Honestly, if they had truly embraced their roles as mothers and women, they wouldn't have raised such flawed men—the very same men their own daughters are now calling out for being so problematic. 🙄

By the way, conflict is just a natural, unavoidable part of being human. It’s really at the root of so many things.

It’s pretty obvious that some problems just can't be solved any other way than through pure, unadulterated struggle. Sometimes, you're fighting for your very life. That’s just the reality of things—it was true back in the days of America, it's true across the globe today, and it'll be true long after we're gone.

Of course, just because someone wins doesn't mean they're automatically "right." But hey, at least they proved they were the better fighter. To me, that’s still a step up from endless, empty chatter or just settling for the status quo.

I really can't bring myself to agree with that. (And I don't mean regarding the existence of fatherhood, but rather whether it's "normal.") It's all just flower-butterfly stuff. 🙂
hiddenpuma75 hiddenpuma75 Regular
376 messages
joined Dec 2002
#158 ·
Joseph Bailey41 said:I really can't bring myself to agree with that. (And I don't mean regarding the existence of fatherhood, but rather whether it's "normal.") It's all just flower-butterfly stuff. 🙂

Look, when I say that war is a normal phenomenon, I’m certainly not suggesting it's something desirable or good, nor am I saying we should go looking for it. What I mean is that conflicts—whether small or large—are a constant presence all over the world. And honestly, the most devastating wars were right here in our beautiful Europe that so many people seem to dream about.

There are countless causes for war, but it isn't as simplistic as our dear casualtiger2 thinks. It’s not just "men cause wars"—if that were the case, they could just take that 92% male fatality rate in combat as their karmic reward. 🙄

In my view, the factors leading to conflict include aggressive men, but also the women who drive them to such extremes. 😉 😁
Joseph Bailey41 Joseph Bailey41 Veteran
1K messages
joined Apr 2021
#159 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Look, when I say that war is a normal phenomenon, I’m certainly not suggesting it's something desirable or good, nor am I saying we should go looking for it. What I mean is that conflicts—whether small or large—are a constant presence all over the world. And honestly, the most devastating wars were right here in our beautiful Europe that so many people seem to dream about.

There are countless causes for war, but it isn't as simplistic as our dear casualtiger2 thinks. It’s not just "men cause wars"—if that were the case, they could just take that 92% male fatality rate in combat as their karmic reward. 🙄

In my view, the factors leading to conflict include aggressive men, but also the women who drive them to such extremes. 😉 😁

It’s almost like you never served in the US Army. You know how it goes... duty first, marriage later. That’s usually how life worked out. Besides, I didn't get the impression that casualtiger2 was blaming young, testosterone-driven guys... but rather the older, more calculated individuals who actually orchestrated these conflicts for their own gain. Honestly, you can take those old myths about Helen any place you want; after all, what does a blind man know about beauty?😁

Personally, I wouldn't draw a line based on gender... it's more about character. I got the feeling you're a fan of books from Amazon... and this one seems right up your alley:

https://www.amazon.com/Dispelling-We.../dp/1583945482
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#160 ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Oh, come on, give me a break!

Men commit 78% of suicides.

Men make up 68% of the homeless population.

80% of murder victims are men.

98% of military casualties are men.

92% of workplace injuries involve men.

Maybe we should actually define what we're even talking about here.
It started like this:
kavala said:
Flyer said:... We're done with the mansplaining, done being second-class, done with gods who are just projections of individual and collective egos. It's over—enough./quote]Sounds like militant feminism to me—because behind the scenes of the reality we actually live in, there's an actual gender war fueled by extreme ego spikes that some individuals have built up in their environments (and failed to control). And when those levels get high, things get brutal—and right now, it's devastating for the most promising segment of the male population.

Women have absolutely succeeded
because they’ve tapped into an innate predisposition—not to express love, but to concentrate power. The whole thing was aided by the old concept of virginity, which has lost all its meaning. Today’s woman can visualize whatever she wants in her head, and now we have a public space full of people who, in their own truth of how they function, are actually innocent, but are ultimately incapable of realizing themselves as women in an extreme sense. In this context, you also find the foothold of homosexuality, which is actually a deviation of sexuality, stemming from the "modern woman's ego," where love used to originate.

The problem is massive, and it’s only going to get worse unless we find the guts to face it (it’s really just a matter of time). We're facing one of the biggest revolutions—a revolution in the minds of the majority... triggered by a realization of who we truly are, which is the real driver of progress in consciousness.

Flyer basically summarized my view in a single sentence, and my reaction was aimed at kavala's chauvinistic remarks, which actually end up proving Flyer's point.
So, if you want, we can debate this thesis instead: throughout most of human history, one half of humanity has oppressed the other, more or less, based solely on gender.
What men have done to each other—how much, why, etc.—can be a topic for another conversation, but not this one, because it's logically flawed.
The subject is tied to our main theme, "Ego and Spirituality," but we can get to that later (by the way, I’d love to hear your counter-argument, especially from a spiritual angle, since you've spent all these years preaching the necessity of believing in God and the importance of religion).

"78% of suicides are men" — women didn't kill them.
"68% of the homeless are men" — women didn't take their houses away just because they're men.
"80% of homicide victims are men" — most weren't killed by women, and certainly not because they're men.
"98% of military casualties are men" — women aren't the ones sending them to war or killing them there.
"92% of workplace injuries happen to men" — women aren't the ones injuring them.

Is that "acceptable" enough for you?

Since you're such a fan of statistics, here are some actual serious topics (unfortunately, you can't fit these into some YouTube comedian's punchlines)—
The Global Gender Gap Report just dropped.
Let’s be real right out of the gate—we have to acknowledge that these numbers are looking at the recent past. The status of women in certain societies (the ones still lagging behind, anyway) has actually improved a ton over the last 40 or 50 years. Plus, we can't exactly ignore the previous few thousand years of history, either.
[A quick tangent—it’s often possible to stay silent from...]Highly educated, well-off women—mostly in modern societies.Honestly, all this talk about equality feels pretty redundant—just like how some Black Americans in similar positions might claim discrimination doesn't even exist. It completely ignores the vast majority of women and Black people who actually feel that inequality on their skin every single day. We’re talking about centuries of oppression against women and Indigenous peoples—and we shouldn't overlook the massive struggle led by brave people who actually fought to bring about any kind of progress at all.

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