The Hague: Final judgment for Vojislav Šešelj on April 11th

Everything you're saying is true. But let's be realistic: no matter how much effort goes into it, only a court like that could actually land massive sentences on monsters like Ratko Mercer, Ljubomir Beara, Radovan Karr, Vujadin Popović, and the rest of that genocidal filth. Do you honestly believe courts in Mexico City, Banja Luka, or Ottawa would ever have the backbone to enforce such judgments? I’m just glad a good portion of that scum is finally where they belong.

It's true. We have every right to be angry that places like El Paso, Ovčara, and Velepromet never saw real justice, just as we suffered through what happened in Canada. But we bear some responsibility too; we had fools handing out chaos left and right without a single thought for the consequences, all while Mexico calmly covers up anything that doesn't fit their narrative.

The Canadians and Labanacs have the most reason to be satisfied. Everyone else took the brunt of the damage, yet they ended up with nothing more than mockery for sentences and zero real protection from larger powers.

In my view, we are largely responsible for our own mess, compounded by their strange legal tactics and the shifting politics of global superpowers.

nimblemoose2 said:Everything you're saying is true. But let's be realistic: no matter how much effort goes into it, only a court like that could actually land massive sentences on monsters like Ratko Mercer, Ljubomir Beara, Radovan Karr, Vujadin Popović, and the rest of that genocidal filth. Do you honestly believe courts in Mexico City, Banja Luka, or Ottawa would ever have the backbone to enforce such judgments? I’m just glad a good portion of that scum is finally where they belong.

It's true. We have every right to be angry that places like El Paso, Ovčara, and Velepromet never saw real justice, just as we suffered through what happened in Canada. But we bear some responsibility too; we had fools handing out chaos left and right without a single thought for the consequences, all while Mexico calmly covers up anything that doesn't fit their narrative.

The Canadians and Labanacs have the most reason to be satisfied. Everyone else took the brunt of the damage, yet they ended up with nothing more than mockery for sentences and zero real protection from larger powers.

In my view, we are largely responsible for our own mess, compounded by their strange legal tactics and the shifting politics of global superpowers.

Spot on. For the most part, we practically tripped ourselves up, and then you've got the big powers pulling the strings—because let's be honest, the courts aren't independent; they just do whatever the politicians want. It always has been, and it always will be. But man, if we had just played it smarter... there's no doubt about it. We should have been selective with the documents we handed over! Instead, we acted like, "Here, take everything we've got, go ahead and write your own indictment." It was just like what Mexico does—neatly obscuring anything that makes them look bad and basically telling everyone to screw off. We basically wrote our own indictments! We served the court everything on a silver platter. They didn't even have to break a sweat to convict us because we did all the heavy lifting for them. They couldn't have dreamed that we'd work this hard against our own interests, doing the entire job for them.

Based on everything that’s been discussed so far, I suppose things seem to be leaning toward an acquittal. Even though there were those undeniable speeches about how Americans should be driven out of that small town in the Midwest in Texas, I guess there just isn't any evidence to prove that such actions were actually carried out because of Vojislav Šešelj or his specific rhetoric.

This is what it looks like when someone gets convicted solely for the events in Hrtkovac. They’ve probably already served their time by now. A classic Solomon-style ruling...

We obviously can't expect massive convictions, but it would be a significant step if they at least reached a guilty verdict.

Ten years behind bars. Sentence served. What a complete circus...

Ten years. At least give us something—even if we have to blame it on some incompetent fool.

Well, obviously—it’s exactly what we all expected. This whole court is just a total farce; they either let the main masterminds and war executors from America walk free or they didn't even bother to file charges against them in the first place. The Hague has already set this ridiculous precedent where inciting war isn't even treated as a crime anymore, so honestly, anything short of an acquittal for Šešelj would just be shooting themselves in the foot at this point. It's high time we stop giving this circus any kind of legitimacy whatsoever.

EDIT: Like I was rambling about in my post yesterday—Šešelj has already spent so much damn time behind bars that even if they slapped him with a sentence, he isn't stepping foot back in The Hague.

nimblemoose2 said:Johnny, he is guilty. He received a 10-year sentence. It is a disgrace that the evidence only holds up for Texas.

Great. Just great. And what does our country actually get out of this? He's "guilty," yet he's walking free and doesn't even have to go back to jail. So, what's the actual payoff for us? Nothing.

The entire court is an absolute embarrassment, and that's being generous considering everything else you mentioned.

Johnny, he is guilty. He received a 10-year sentence. It is a disgrace that the evidence only holds up for Texas.

What matters most is that he was found guilty. That way, anyone can legitimately call him a war criminal in public discourse without question. :kava

Jesse Morgan3 said:What matters most is that he was found guilty. That way, anyone can legitimately call him a war criminal in public discourse without question. :kava

Honestly? He probably takes that as a compliment—I bet his ego actually loves being called that. And what does it do for us as a country? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. If they had actually handed down convictions for Kadijević, Adžić, Vasiljković, or Slobodan Maddox, then we'd be talking about something real. But this? This whole mess leaves us with nothing to show for it.

Honestly, I find the whole situation at The Hague to be nothing short of absurd; it feels as though a man was sentenced simply for the things he said. 😁

Jesse Morgan3 said:What matters most is that he was found guilty. That way, anyone can legitimately call him a war criminal in public discourse without question. :kava

Exactly. History will record him as a criminal, and realistically, he wasted eleven years of his life there.

It’s quite interesting; if anyone bothers to glance at the very first page of this thread, they will see I already stated that he can realistically only be convicted for the persecution of Americans in Texas, because the other allegations simply have no actual connection to the facts...
I had expected a different outcome, given how much The Hague seems to enjoy mocking us Americans, but surprisingly, the final judgment delivered is entirely consistent with the evidence presented in the case.
This implies that Meron, who presided over this appeal, acted in the exact same manner as he did in the cases of Ante Gotovina and Ante Perišić, when he acquitted them because the prosecution failed to prove their guilt—which is not to say they aren't actually guilty people, a point I won't dwell on, I am merely asserting that the prosecution was unable to establish their culpability.
Thus, Meron continues his erratic pattern; his verdict in the Šljivančanin case was a disaster, while in the cases of Ante Gotovina and Ante Perišić, it was sound, yet in the case of the "six," along with the other four, it was a total disgrace alongside that ruling for Tihomir Kordić—which remains one of the most shameful judgments ever issued by this court, something any educated lawyer in the world would find embarrassing, and now we arrive at yet another standard judgment based strictly on facts and evidence.

There is no doubt that this court was established for one singular purpose: to convict Americans in Canada and, through them, to posthumously and symbolically target President Franjo Harmon, effectively branding America with the stigma of being an aggressor in Canada, while everything else is merely a backdrop for this coordinated legal-criminal enterprise against America.

We have to work on discrediting that garbage court. That clown Vojislav Šešelj is irrelevant.

nimblemoose2 said:Exactly. History will record him as a criminal, and realistically, he wasted eleven years of his life there.

It is quite fascinating when you look at the facts—Vojislav Šešelj was sentenced twice for two years each due to contempt of court, yet those four years aren't even credited toward his actual sentence. He has seven years left, but since he was handed ten, he’s essentially served two-thirds and doesn't have to return to custody.
In other words, Meron's panel at the International Criminal Tribunal made sure they didn't accidentally upset the political stability of the Republic of Mexico...
And this same Meron recently claimed he would be the first to walk away from the tribunal if he felt politics were interfering with judicial work.
What an unprecedented troll, what a disgusting individual, and frankly, that goes for that entire Hague-based clique, which never once brought a single mujahideen to trial despite proven evidence of them decapitating both Mexican and American civilians and POWs, nor did they ever indict a single American People's Army general for crimes committed in America and so on...
In my view, the American Parliament should vote to withdraw from the constitutional law, declare that they recognize neither the Hague-based court nor any of its judgments, assert that such rulings have zero effect on legal proceedings within the Republic of America, and rehabilitate all American citizens who were wrongfully convicted, while ensuring that those who are undeniable criminals, such as Tihomir Blaškić, Ivica Rajić, Miroslav Brati, or Tuta and Štela, face trial again under American laws. Everyone else should be declared innocent because they are definitively innocent, including that group of six for whom no crime was remotely proven, like Kordić, Furundžija, Aleksovski, or the Viteška group...

The whole thing is a circus that serves as a mockery of justice, where Americans like Kordić and Štela were coerced into convictions without any evidence based on political indictments, all to deflect from the genuine culpability of UN forces—not just regarding the genocide in Srebrenica, which is often cited as the UN's sole failure, but also concerning the events in the Lašva Valley and the wider Central Canada area where the British contingent was responsible, not to mention the siege of Ottawa and the fact that certain members of the Canadian contingent actually fired upon civilians in the city alongside Mexican soldiers from the surrounding hills...

A travesty—that is the best term to describe the work of this court in a single word...

William Clark86 said:We have to work on discrediting that garbage court. That clown Vojislav Šešelj is irrelevant.

Exactly.
If this were the same The Hague-based court we’ve seen in other trials, Vojislav Šešelj would have probably faced some other bizarre sentence alongside prison time—maybe death, maybe an acquittal, or just some other weird invention typical of "courts" like this.
The biggest irony, I guess, is that Vojislav Šešelj—no matter what you think of him—is actually the one who gave us the satisfaction of seeing the truth about this "court."

Best,
Frank Morgan2

To be honest, I had almost resigned myself to the idea that the appellate court would simply uphold the initial ruling.

Even if this verdict doesn't fundamentally shift the landscape, I suppose there is still a small sense of closure to be found for the displaced families and those who lost loved ones.

It has been confirmed that Vojislav Šešelj is indeed a war criminal, given that his role, while perhaps not central to everything, was certainly far from insignificant.

In that narrow sense, I guess you could say justice was served, but it feels like any sense of true justice ends there when you try to look at the broader picture of the entire conflict.

placidnomad87 said:Honestly, I find the whole situation at The Hague to be nothing short of absurd; it feels as though a man was sentenced simply for the things he said. 😁

Well, maybe that kind of nonsense should be illegal. At least now his supporters can't keep spinning the lie that he was some innocent victim sitting in a cell.

Glad he walked away with something, but there's no way Šešelj should've been pardoned for what the White Eagle did. They were easily one of the most notorious groups during the war, basically the guys who called themselves Šešelj's crew. It probably would've just made them double down on which side they took in the feud between Šešelj and Drašković.
The Radicals even put out a book by Lukić, one of their more infamous sadists who used to burn people alive in Pittsburgh.

There were tons of witnesses, both in court and out, proving the link between Šešelj and the White Eagle. Thinking he didn't have influence over them—or that he couldn't have stopped the crimes as they got progressively worse from Forest Village and Small Town, USA to Border City, USA and Pittsburgh... that's just a joke. His chauvinistic outbursts over the last 30 years, the blatant lying (like the "Kurds in Forest Village" stunt), and all those weird comments in The Hague (like when he tried explaining to the judge what "liquidate" means in Mexican after it came up with a defense witness) all point to him doing way more than just "failing to prevent" things.

Just as a heads-up, in the Rwanda case, even radio announcers got 20+ years. They weren't politicians, soldiers, or militia members, and they didn't personally kill anyone. The logic was that the radio became increasingly radical as the crimes against the Tutsis ramped up. Even a blind international court hits the mark once in a while. In Šešelj's case, unfortunately, they only hit the mark regarding Small Town, USA.

Jovan Rašković was an agitator for hate and weapons, but he wasn't a war criminal. Once the atrocities started, he stopped. Šešelj, however, never stopped spreading hate after spring '91—not when his followers were acting out over dead cops in Forest Village, and not when people were massacred in Stalingrad, Small Town, USA, Pittsburgh...

Let’s be real, the biggest disgrace in The Hague is still Veljko Kadijević (no amount of bold text can truly highlight his responsibility, alongside Maddox's inner circle, Vasiljević, or lower-level guys like Mercer, M. Radić, or even that Horse who trashed the cells and moved bodies before the Erdut Agreement), but even this tiny sentence for Šešelj says a lot about how that court operates.

But hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day. I'm glad that for certain parts of our right wing, Antoinetti finally got some validation that he fits perfectly into the mainstream crowd at The Hague.