Look, I don't want anyone thinking I'm just blowing off steam here—I'll make a point of breaking this down step by step.
Melissa Rogers4 said:You ask for an explanation and then call it being a know-it-all just because you don't like the answer...🙂
Where did I even mention an axe or anything falling? I was talking about a state of mind, not what you own or what's happening around you.
You weren't talking about a state of mind; you were describing circumstances that are actually pretty rare—being incredibly happy and content simply because life feels good and kind to you. Since you framed it as something to be grateful for and ultimately humble about, it’s impossible not to conclude you missed the mark completely.
Everyone feels down sometimes; it's just part of being human. But you can still be grateful and happy with your life and the experience of living, and that leads to true, effortless humility.
It's obvious you realized you messed up and now you're pivoting, because this paragraph totally contradicts what you said earlier. Just feeling bad occasionally while being mostly happy and enjoying a "good life" just puts the focus back on favorable circumstances, which isn't humility. If the situation were reversed and stayed that way for a long time, I'd be asking you about real humility that flows naturally...
You could tell yourself stories about how miserable you are, how you're a victim, how others have it better, or how things are unfair and you have to fight just to survive. In those cases, humility is either fake or it just drains a person instantly.
None of that is actually humility; it's just the natural reaction of an unconscious person who feels hurt and uses self-pity to find the strength to keep going.
Because someone can feel unhappy and think life is hard, yet decide they want to do the right thing, serve others, set aside their own needs, and be humble.
This is getting intense. I don't know how old you are, but you sound more like you're daydreaming about an idealized world than actually living in reality. You can't just decide to be righteous, serve others, suppress your needs, and be humble. That's just an ego-driven idea—thinking you can earn "spiritual" points that way—but it doesn't work like that. Spirituality doesn't respond to performances or acting the part.
Quincy:| In my post, I was suggesting that it’s better to first cultivate that kind of headspace—things like joy and gratitude—so that humility follows naturally. Trying to force it when you don't feel it just leads to burnout. I figured it was worth mentioning because I know many religions wouldn't agree with that approach, since they tend to focus on controlling behavior first... |
I somewhat agree with your first point, but let's be honest about how you actually phrased it. You won't break if you admit it. The thing is, striving for that state of mind doesn't guarantee humility will come easily or naturally—it won't. That only happens for people who live out their stories rather than just dreaming them up. People like that aren't lying, and lying is easy. You're saying something that sounds "wise" and smooth, so it feels true, but you aren't living it because you're too caught up in this new narrative. You're basically an example of that exact mindset...
As for behavior, you're right that we have it wrong. Even though it feels like we can choose how we act, we really can't. We're driven by forces that are far too complex for our surface-level way of solving problems, so this idea of "free will" is mostly just a hope that one day...
Quincy:| I just thought if anyone responded, I'd want to hear what they think. |
And then you get defensive when someone tries to help you refine your thoughts so they make more sense. You miss the good intentions and just see it as a personal attack...
So, yeah, 🙂
Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about the circumstances of existence? Seriously—go ahead, try to find even one single sentence in my post that refers to the nature of being. You completely misinterpreted my point from the jump, and because your initial logic is flawed, every single reaction you’ve had since then is fundamentally wrong.
When people start preaching about gratitude, do they honestly believe that being wealthy somehow makes you more thankful than someone struggling to make ends meet? It’s a ridiculous notion—honestly, it’s nonsense. Gratitude isn't some luxury item you pick up once you hit a certain tax bracket; it’s a state of mind. It has absolutely nothing to do with the balance in your bank account or what you own. Period.
Look, you realize you’ve completely flipped your script here, right? You’re changing your tune—this paragraph totally contradicts what you were saying just a moment ago. When things are going great—when you're feeling wonderful, happy, and genuinely enjoying the fact that life finally seems to be treating you well—it's easy to credit those favorable circumstances. In those moments, it isn't really humility; it's just luck. But if the situation were reversed—if things were going poorly for a long, long time—then I’d actually start asking you about true humility—the kind that is forged through relentless struggle.
No, I am not changing my stance—it isn’t even in conflict with what I said before. You really should have read that more carefully in the first place; if you had, you would see there is no contradiction here and that absolutely no position is being shifted.
Look, just because someone is wading through a rough patch doesn't mean they’ve lost their footing entirely—it’s a common misconception. You can experience genuine hardship, or even feel like everything is hitting the fan at once, without losing your grip on gratitude. It is entirely possible—and frankly, necessary—to navigate those dark moments while still maintaining a sense of joy for being alive. One doesn't negate the other.
None of this is about humility—it isn't an act of submission at all. It’s just the raw, natural reaction of a wounded being—someone who’s feeling the sting and is retreating into self-pity just to scrape together enough strength to keep moving forward.
I was talking about an entirely different subject—specifically, how most religions teach us (quite convincingly, and I’ll admit I'm prone to believing them) that just because we feel a certain way—and let's be honest, most of us hit those low points occasionally—it isn't an excuse to take it out on others. Instead, the doctrine suggests we should remain decent and, more importantly, maintain a sense of humility toward everyone around us. That is why I brought this up as a topic for debate. Because, looking at it from another angle, constantly suppressing your true state can easily slide into being performative or, frankly, it can just completely burn a person out.
This is a massive reach. I don’t know how old you actually are, but it’s pretty clear that you’re leaning way too hard on wishful thinking and some idealized version of the world rather than dealing with actual reality. You can’t simultaneously strive to be righteous, dedicate your life to serving others, suppress your own needs, and remain humble. It’s a mathematical impossibility—it just doesn't work that way.. That’s just the logic of an egoist—someone who thinks they can perform their way into some kind of "spiritual" merit—but let me tell you, it doesn’t work like that. True spirituality isn't fooled by people putting on a show or acting the part.
Yet another perfect example of how you completely miss the point of what I'm saying. This isn't about my personal opinion—you clearly failed to grasp that—I am simply stating that I have discussed this exact topic with various clergy members from different faiths, and they all maintained that this is indeed the correct path. On the other hand, it seems to me that we first need to cultivate the state of consciousness I mentioned in my initial post—gratitude, happiness, etc.—before true humility can even manifest.
Both sides—whether it's the "fake it till you make it" approach or the "just be who you feel like being, even if it adds more negativity to the world" stance—have their merits and their flaws. There is no single, absolute answer here.
But seriously, can you at least see how much you’re dodging the actual substance of my argument and how wildly you're misinterpreting my words?
I somewhat agree with the first part, but let's be honest—that's not what you actually wrote. You aren't going to lose anything by admitting it. The issue is that striving for such a state of mind doesn't mean humility will suddenly arrive naturally or easily—it won't. Only people who spin fairy tales and indulge in fantasies, without ever actually living out what they preach, find it "easy." Such people are essentially lying, and lying costs nothing. You say things that sound profound and "wise," so they must be true, but you aren't willing to back it up with your life because you're too busy believing in some new narrative. It doesn't apply to you—you're just a textbook example of that specific mindset.
As I’ve tried to explain—and as other users here have actually understood—that is precisely what I wrote. And let me be clear: I am not going to change my stance or my word just to appease you.
My contention is that it *will* come naturally and easily. Whenever I have been in that state of mind—and let me clarify so there's no confusion: I don't mean when I had material wealth and felt happy because people were sucking up to me; I mean a state of spirit regardless of my circumstances. In fact, during times when I was fasting heavily and might not have even had enough to eat, the result was the same. When I am in that state, humility follows naturally and effortlessly. Just like everything else—courage, initiative, and so on. I am speaking from direct experience here. I have no idea why you insist on dismissing this as mere daydreaming.
All I want to know is how I should conduct myself when I am *not* in that state of mind. But I’ve already laid out my thoughts and my dilemmas, and I refuse to keep repeating myself.
Regarding behavior, you're right that it's flawed. Even though it feels like we can choose how to act, we really can't. We are driven by forces that we select at levels far too complex for our superficial attempts at problem-solving, making our so-called "free will" nothing more than an illusion and a hope that one day...
It isn't that black and white. If we follow your logic that we can't decide how to behave, then I could theoretically kill someone just because they annoyed me and claim I wasn't responsible because I couldn't control my actions. That's an extreme example, sure, but where do we draw the line? What rights do we actually have? Should our assessment of how "good" or "bad" we are allowed to act be influenced by whether we feel hurt, or whether we lack that internal state of being happy, grateful, and seeing life as beautiful? (And again, I am talking about an internal state, not external factors like your job, your money, or how much people admire you.) There are plenty of questions to unpack here.
EDIT: That was actually my entire motivation for starting this thread—to emphasize that when we feel right with ourselves, humility follows naturally. It shouldn’t be forced. (Seriously, if you actually read my original post with a bit of nuance, you’ll see that’s exactly what I was saying.) A lot of people think humility means self-flagellation, and since several preachers I deeply respect hold the opposite view, I was hoping to hear what other members of this forum thought about it.
So, contrary to your impression, I actually *want* to hear from people who disagree with me—I find those perspectives genuinely interesting. But that doesn't mean I want someone who hasn't even grasped my point to try and "fix" my supposedly contradictory thoughts! Well, I suppose this is a forum, and anyone can chime in with whatever they want. I guess I'll just have to deal with it.
You listen to them, and then you get defensive when they try to "tidy up" your opinion so it sounds less contradictory. You fail to see that they're coming from a good place rather than attacking you.
There you go, as if 🙂
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and frankly, I don't see how you can "tidy up" a concept you haven't even understood in the first place.
