The Mask You Live In - documentary movie

placidharbor8 said:Hmm, you know, I feel like what we're seeing is really just generational conditioning and learned expectations. If you were to take a quick look back at primitive Homo sapiens and our early ancestors, you'd probably realize there weren't these rigid, strict divisions between "male" and "female" jobs. A woman had to be just as capable at combat skills if she needed to protect her tribe, her village, or her kids when the situation called for it. On the flip side, a man had to lead by example to teach his sons to respect mothers and other women in the group, and he definitely had to develop an emotional side, otherwise, he wouldn't be able to sustain a family or find a mate. Back then, nobody was stuck in such a narrow mold of behavior; everyone had to step up and do a bit of everything depending on the need. But since things aren't like that anymore in modern America, I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what is "normal" and what isn't. At most, you could say, "Well, that’s what seems normal to me."

Do you actually have any written proof for that theory..? Or is this just guesswork, kind of like saying "this is probably what dinosaurs looked like"... My take is that the strongest, most successful guys always had a better shot at being fathers—and honestly, that hasn't changed, it's just basic biology...

Donna White50 said:Do you actually have any written proof for that theory..? Or is this just guesswork, kind of like saying "this is probably what dinosaurs looked like"... My take is that the strongest, most successful guys always had a better shot at being fathers—and honestly, that hasn't changed, it's just basic biology...

So, do you actually have anything in writing to support that claim? Because the world is way too complex to just throw around generalizations like that.

It really comes down to perspective and your own internal logic, I suppose. You keep using the word "success," but that's such a broad term, isn't it? It doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

When you say someone was "successful" in this context, what are we talking about? Are you thinking of the guy who took out the most members of a rival tribe, or maybe the hunter who brought home the most meat, or perhaps the one who actually raised and guided his offspring well? I'd love some clarification there.

Reading your post, it feels like you're focusing entirely on raw, brute strength, almost as if you're forgetting that humans are, first and foremost, emotional creatures.

Sam Robinson said:I’m mostly on your side here. Especially regarding the point that traits like strength, responsibility, fairness, and integrity should be valued in both men and women. But my take on what the film is actually aiming at is this: we can't live in that narrow definition 24/7. When there's zero understanding for the full spectrum of emotions and behaviors inherent to boys and men, the whole system starts to fracture. Let's be real; saying "be a man" is just as empty as saying "be a lady"—not that anyone actually uses that one anymore. It's just a collection of toxic labels used for manipulation, much like "don't overreact," "don't be confrontational," "stop whining," "don't cry," or "don't act like a girl." The earlier kids are hit with these labels, the more emotionally stunted they become later in life. They internalize the idea that showing emotion is somehow unmanly or inappropriate, which is exactly why we see such a spike in problematic behavior and an inability to manage anger and frustration when their needs aren't met.

When parents don't take a kid's emotions seriously—regardless of whether they're a boy or a girl—that’s straight-up neglect. That lack of impulse control and all that built-up frustration you're talking about? That’s the direct result of long-term, inadequate parenting.

I honestly feel like the fallout you're describing comes from parental neglect rather than gendered expectations specifically. To me, it's just as wrong to tell a boy to "stop crying, man up" as it is to tell a girl she's being "too sensitive" or "acting like a girl." In both scenarios, the kids end up feeling hurt and unsupported.

Girls can deal with the exact same psychological fallout from that kind of upbringing as boys do.

So, I'd say the issues people face as adults are really just consequences of poor parenting, not necessarily tied to those specific "be a man" or "be a lady" clichés. The heavy lifting is on the parents; a parent who is actually present and engaged will raise a child who feels secure in themselves. Neglected kids, on the other hand, often grow up needing serious help, just like you described in your post, regardless of their gender.

In broken homes, you'll see siblings—a brother and a sister—both struggling with the same issues, like suppressing emotions or acting out destructively. But in healthy, functional families, you'll see siblings who are both stable, living good lives, and expressing themselves in a healthy way. At the end of the day, I think it’s much more about the quality of the upbringing than any specific gendered phrases.

placidharbor8 said:So, do you actually have anything in writing to support that claim? Because the world is way too complex to just throw around generalizations like that.

It really comes down to perspective and your own internal logic, I suppose. You keep using the word "success," but that's such a broad term, isn't it? It doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

When you say someone was "successful" in this context, what are we talking about? Are you thinking of the guy who took out the most members of a rival tribe, or maybe the hunter who brought home the most meat, or perhaps the one who actually raised and guided his offspring well? I'd love some clarification there.

Reading your post, it feels like you're focusing entirely on raw, brute strength, almost as if you're forgetting that humans are, first and foremost, emotional creatures.

Look, we aren't primarily emotional creatures—that’s just nonsense. It all starts with our basic instincts and those raw physiological needs first... then you move into stuff like security, order, and justice, and only after all that do we even get around to worrying about our emotional needs...
I can't see the image you linked, but if you drop the text or the context behind it, I'll get to work rewriting it for you. Just let me know what the vibe is!
So, looking back at how things used to work—back in the day, success was really just about being the person who could check the boxes for what the group needed most. It was all about hierarchy, you know? Once you took care of the basics, you moved on to the next level of needs, and so on... Like, if everyone was starving, the hero was the one who could actually put food on the table. If there was a war brewing, it was the person who could provide safety and a sense of security. And when you're talking about building a home and a family, it’s all about that deep connection—love and affection, stuff like that...

placidharbor8 said:Hmm, you know, I feel like what we're seeing is really just generational conditioning and learned expectations. If you were to take a quick look back at primitive Homo sapiens and our early ancestors, you'd probably realize there weren't these rigid, strict divisions between "male" and "female" jobs. A woman had to be just as capable at combat skills if she needed to protect her tribe, her village, or her kids when the situation called for it. On the flip side, a man had to lead by example to teach his sons to respect mothers and other women in the group, and he definitely had to develop an emotional side, otherwise, he wouldn't be able to sustain a family or find a mate. Back then, nobody was stuck in such a narrow mold of behavior; everyone had to step up and do a bit of everything depending on the need. But since things aren't like that anymore in modern America, I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what is "normal" and what isn't. At most, you could say, "Well, that’s what seems normal to me."

your whole argument gets totally torn apart by actual big-name scientists, like Harold Klaveness or whatever... there absolutely was a division. and that split is exactly what made women such a "crucial" link in the evolutionary chain. basically, they're the reason we got symbolic language, which eventually evolved into the complex speech we have now—and language is widely considered the biggest leap in evolution.
but hey, probably not even the point of this thread... just a side note.

haven't seen that documentary and honestly don't plan to. I'd rather just read a book.

generally speaking, the "masks" we wear are just biological adaptations. it's part of our evolutionary and cultural heritage. Dionysian selection... or whatever people call natural or sexual selection.

don't get me wrong though. that's just one angle. there's plenty more to it. 🙂

Nancy Lee84 said:your whole argument gets totally torn apart by actual big-name scientists, like Harold Klaveness or whatever... there absolutely was a division. and that split is exactly what made women such a "crucial" link in the evolutionary chain. basically, they're the reason we got symbolic language, which eventually evolved into the complex speech we have now—and language is widely considered the biggest leap in evolution.
but hey, probably not even the point of this thread... just a side note.

haven't seen that documentary and honestly don't plan to. I'd rather just read a book.

generally speaking, the "masks" we wear are just biological adaptations. it's part of our evolutionary and cultural heritage. Dionysian selection... or whatever people call natural or sexual selection.

don't get me wrong though. that's just one angle. there's plenty more to it. 🙂

That's super interesting! Do you have any good reading material or resources on this? Or even a decent documentary? I'm actually quite fascinated by this whole anthropological angle.🙂
My views are really just my own personal deductions and logic, so I’m definitely not claiming they're absolute truth, though I realize I could have phrased things a bit better.

Donna White50 said:Look, we aren't primarily emotional creatures—that’s just nonsense. It all starts with our basic instincts and those raw physiological needs first... then you move into stuff like security, order, and justice, and only after all that do we even get around to worrying about our emotional needs...
I can't see the image you linked, but if you drop the text or the context behind it, I'll get to work rewriting it for you. Just let me know what the vibe is!
So, looking back at how things used to work—back in the day, success was really just about being the person who could check the boxes for what the group needed most. It was all about hierarchy, you know? Once you took care of the basics, you moved on to the next level of needs, and so on... Like, if everyone was starving, the hero was the one who could actually put food on the table. If there was a war brewing, it was the person who could provide safety and a sense of security. And when you're talking about building a home and a family, it’s all about that deep connection—love and affection, stuff like that...

Do you really think this pyramid holds up when you look at modern society? I feel like there's so much room for debate there.
It also seems to depend heavily on where you are in the world. I'd imagine the hierarchy looks a little different for someone living in the US compared to someone in sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe only the bottom two tiers are universal.

placidharbor8 said:That's super interesting! Do you have any good reading material or resources on this? Or even a decent documentary? I'm actually quite fascinated by this whole anthropological angle.🙂
My views are really just my own personal deductions and logic, so I’m definitely not claiming they're absolute truth, though I realize I could have phrased things a bit better.

Do you really think this pyramid holds up when you look at modern society? I feel like there's so much room for debate there.
It also seems to depend heavily on where you are in the world. I'd imagine the hierarchy looks a little different for someone living in the US compared to someone in sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe only the bottom two tiers are universal.

Alright, check out these titles, they should hit the spot for what you're looking for.
1. Harold Kowalski: Cave Woman
2. Geoffrey Miller: The Mind and Reproduction
3. David M. Buss: Evolutionary Psychology
4. V.S. Ramachandran: The Storytelling Brain
5. Igor Kardum: Evolution and Human Behavior

plus a whole bunch more... 🙂

placidharbor8 said:That's super interesting! Do you have any good reading material or resources on this? Or even a decent documentary? I'm actually quite fascinated by this whole anthropological angle.🙂
My views are really just my own personal deductions and logic, so I’m definitely not claiming they're absolute truth, though I realize I could have phrased things a bit better.

Do you really think this pyramid holds up when you look at modern society? I feel like there's so much room for debate there.
It also seems to depend heavily on where you are in the world. I'd imagine the hierarchy looks a little different for someone living in the US compared to someone in sub-Saharan Africa. Maybe only the bottom two tiers are universal.

The first two levels are universal since they're basically the foundation for our biology and mental health. Without them, nothing else matters..
The higher levels are all about individual potential and skill sets... but let's be real, only a tiny few—like, seriously rare—ever actually hit the top of the pyramid..

Donna White50 said:I totally agree that parents should be educated on how to raise kids and understand their needs. Nobody really prepares us for parenthood, so when we have kids, we're basically left to our own devices—just trying to figure it out and using whatever parenting styles we think are right. And more often than not, we just end up repeating the exact same patterns our own parents used on us.
You brought up the whole debate between gender roles and biological predisposition. Honestly, in today's world, it's incredibly hard to untangle the two because they're so intertwined. We can't just pop people into an incubator to see what's purely biological versus what's learned or forced behavior, and I don't think we ever will be able to tell them apart. That’s why this topic is such a lightning rod for different perspectives—people have been fighting over this forever, whether it's in religious circles or medical studies.
Personally, I think having different sexes is a biological necessity—it's the result of millions of years of evolution for a reason, regardless of what we think about it. Men and women have different biological needs and react differently, and I honestly think that's a strength rather than a flaw...

So if I’m really such an annoying person to talk to and I’m supposedly insulting you... why are you even wasting your breath on me? Honestly... and now, let's get back to the actual arguments...
Look, you didn't just judge him—you basically shut him out entirely. There’s a huge difference between avoiding someone and actually condemning them for who they are. You claim to be this super tolerant, empathetic person, but if that were true, you probably would've shown some genuine interest in his perspective... maybe even offered a little support or a listening ear to help him open up about how much he's struggling. Instead, you just turned your back on him. I mean, what business do you even have with someone like that? At the end of the day, you have every right to not like certain people or choose not to hang out with them—just like I have zero patience for people who act overly soft or wishy-washy. But also, that idea that people who can't express sadness are somehow "stuck" and missing out on other emotions? That's just not true at all, there's no science to back that up... Some people deal with depression by just retreating inward—pulling away from the world to protect themselves from the pain. In those cases, they kind of go numb to everything around them. Usually, it's just a temporary thing, too... most people eventually find their footing again and come back to themselves.
When you look at those extreme cases of abuse and harassment—it's pretty obvious they trigger these massive behavioral outbursts and deep-seated mental struggles that people just carry around with them forever... So, I guess the movie uses those intense scenarios to really paint the full picture of what we're dealing with...
Look, let me break it down—boys grow up, and playing games is just part of the deal. It’s how they test their strength, figure out who’s in charge, and measure their own success. Honestly, it’s just biological wiring meant to ensure survival... so while the boys are busy racing cars or acting out little war games to test their grit, women tend to lean into that whole vibe of being nurturing and magnetic. That’s just how the deck is stacked. It’s always been this way, and frankly, it’s perfectly natural. I don't have much faith in psychiatry, but even so, no shrink should be walking around pushing their own baseless opinions about how we "need" to change this. It's even worse when they try to label these natural behaviors as negative or something that needs to be suppressed. Their job isn't to redesign human nature—it's to deal with the extreme, antisocial stuff that actually breaks society. That's where their expertise should stay... anything else is just noise...
I guess my black-and-white outlook makes sense, considering how people over here act like extreme behavior is just the norm—like it’s some kind of reflection of what everyone is actually doing... which, honestly, isn't true at all. If we're going to talk about extremes, then I’ve got every right to use an extreme lens and a bit of a binary framework too. To wrap this up, let's face it: we all wear masks. They’re just part of life, really—a way to protect our privacy and keep ourselves from being too vulnerable around others. Suppressing your feelings has always been a survival mechanism in society, and it’s a total illusion to think that being wide open and showing vulnerability in such a dangerous world is actually going to pay off. Everyone needs to find their own way to express what they're feeling in a way that works for them, and there are plenty of ways out there once you learn how... People love watching those documentaries about peace and love in the world because it's easy to swallow, but the reality is that those things have zero basis in actual practice. The bitter truth we all live in—the one we can't escape—is that it's simply impossible to satisfy everyone's individual wants and needs...

And the best mistakes.

I didn't judge him. Intuitively—maybe even subconsciously—I avoided him, not because I lack empathy or tolerance, which is a ridiculous thing to suggest, but simply because I-didn't-know-how-to-act-around-him. I used the example of how emotional stiffness leads to potential issues, and that is a fact, no matter how much you try to twist my words.

Emotional stiffness isn't depression (though it can lead to it in certain cases), so please, stop conflating the two.

Furthermore, when we're discussing extreme cases of abuse and harassment, it's obvious that these cause excessive behaviors and psychological issues that people carry with them throughout their lives, and the movie presents these extreme cases specifically to draw a conclusion about the bigger picture.

The movie provided current statistics on violence, which is reaching epidemic proportions in the USA and across the rest of the world. The masks—the way people learn to act because they think or are told that's how they should act—might not be the only reason, but they're definitely a significant factor.

To explain, boys grow up, and playing, testing strength, power, and success is a core part of growing up—it's a biological drive for individual success (reproduction). While boys are driving toy cars, playing war, and measuring their strength, women are leaning into tenderness, attractiveness, and maternal roles. End of story. It's always been this way and it's normal behavior. No psychiatrist (and I don't have a high opinion of psychiatry anyway) has any right to peddle their own baseless opinions claiming this needs to change, or worse, that this behavioral model is negative and should be suppressed. They can only offer opinions on excessive behaviors that aren't socially acceptable, because that's what they deal with—that's their job.

Here we go again with the whole "masculinity is just a social construct" thing when it’s clearly rooted in biology. And honestly, where are the girls when it comes to measuring power, competing, and wanting to win? That’s just human nature, not some exclusive male trait. It’s about how we channel that drive without needing to lash out at anyone perceived as "different" or "weaker." But let's be real—so-called men do exactly that constantly, from playground bullies to disrespecting women, all the way up to nations flexing their nukes to intimidate each other. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would actually be hilarious. You can think whatever you want about psychiatrists and psychologists, but they’re the experts on the human mind, and their take on interpersonal dynamics isn't changing just because you don't like it.

Quincy:

My black-and-white view makes sense given how extreme behaviors are constantly presented here as if they're the standard for everyone, which they aren't. Since we're already talking about extremes, why shouldn't I use an extreme framework for this conversation? Bottom line: we all wear masks. Masks are a fundamental part of life used to protect our privacy and keep us from being too vulnerable. Suppressing emotions has always been a survival mechanism in society, and thinking that being wide open in this dangerous world will actually lead to anything productive is just a total illusion.

Look, being an authentic person means being willing to be vulnerable. Vulnerability isn't weakness; it's what makes us human (and sorry if I’m repeating myself, but you’re the one doing it).

In one of your later posts, you laid out certain human needs. So, how exactly is someone wearing a mask supposed to achieve self-actualization? Do you really think people like Mahatma Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, Mother Teresa, or Nelson Mandela were weak?

Quincy:

Everyone needs to find their own way to express emotions in a socially acceptable manner, and there are plenty of ways to learn. Sure, documentaries about world peace and love are easy watching and people love them, but the reality is that those things have zero basis in practice. The bitter truth we all live in is that it's impossible to satisfy everyone's individual desires and needs, and there's nothing we can do to change that.

I don't agree, and I'm never going to. Honestly, I don't even see the point in continuing this debate when we're coming from such polar opposite directions. As far as I'm concerned, let's just agree to disagree.

Donna White50 said:Look, every parent is basically a superhero—raising kids is one of the hardest jobs out there. If a parent wants to maintain authority, they also need to avoid falling apart in front of their kids. Kids tend to take on the guilt and responsibility for their parents' struggles, and usually, they actually do... There’s really no point in dumping our problems or fragile emotional states onto them, because it hits kids pretty hard..
Exactly. Both men and women have their own behavioral flaws, and let's face it—tears aren't some magic recipe for happiness, nor are they a solution to stop wars, aggression, or whatever else...
I'm with you, people fight for power and profit...

I am 100% on board with this. You really have to be that steady, stable anchor for your kids and avoid having a total breakdown in front of them—at least until they're old enough to actually process complex emotions without getting totally overwhelmed.

I have a friend and his sister who are both struggling with depression, and honestly, it's because both of their parents had such weak personalities. They just folded under every bit of pressure, crying over the tiniest little things. Those kids never had anyone to look up to or someone they could actually lean on, because they basically ended up acting like the parents to their own parents.

Donna White50 said:Look, we're part of a bigger machine here, and unfortunately, the way our economy works today is basically set up so that only a tiny handful can win at everyone else's expense. That's just the reality we're living in. It’s the driving force behind why so many young women are pushed to grind through college just so they can land those high-paying executive roles tomorrow—roles that, let's face it, usually end up going to men about 60% of the time anyway.
Masculinity and femininity define us, and even if gender roles didn't exist, biological patterns that shaped our species would still make men, well, men. What really bugs me, though, is this current trend where masculinity is being stripped away in every possible way, and power is being shifted from men to women across the board. The tragedy is that we haven't even come up with a new blueprint for men to follow; instead, we're seeing this push toward feminized masculinity and other lifestyles being treated as the new "in" thing.
Then you've got this massive clash between the old school and the new generations because of all these social shifts, and the modern man is basically losing his footing. Like, what you do with your family or whether you want to wear a skirt—that's your business, totally private. But in the workplace? People expect teamwork, expertise, skill, education, and results... if you don't bring that to the table, you're basically invisible.

Donna, I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. What on earth does the economy have to do with the ideal of masculinity?

Sure, even without gender roles, men would still be men because of their biology. That holds up. (Well, not always, but that's beside the point). As for this "transfer of power," as a supposedly "clueless woman," I haven't seen anyone take away a man's manhood through policy. Period.

(And look, I don't really take the whole transgender thing seriously, no matter how much it makes me feel like a bad or politically incorrect person.)

I also don't see "feminized masculinity" becoming trendy. Most young guys I see are hitting the gym constantly or going for that rugged lumberjack look, growing out beards thick enough to hide a family of ferrets in.

And yeah, your fashion sense at the office shouldn't matter. Why should it? It's perfectly normal to expect skill, education, and knowledge regardless of what someone wears. Teamwork and success might be more critical in some jobs than others, but again—how does any of that relate to being a man?

Look, maybe I completely missed the point since I haven't watched the movie and don't plan to. Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with the PC feminists who mourn over men being unable to show emotion because of "the patriarchy." They brought these issues on themselves; they can deal with the consequences. It's not like women don't have plenty of our own problems to worry about.

Jesse Mendoza4 said:When parents don't take a kid's emotions seriously—regardless of whether they're a boy or a girl—that’s straight-up neglect. That lack of impulse control and all that built-up frustration you're talking about? That’s the direct result of long-term, inadequate parenting.

I honestly feel like the fallout you're describing comes from parental neglect rather than gendered expectations specifically. To me, it's just as wrong to tell a boy to "stop crying, man up" as it is to tell a girl she's being "too sensitive" or "acting like a girl." In both scenarios, the kids end up feeling hurt and unsupported.

Girls can deal with the exact same psychological fallout from that kind of upbringing as boys do.

So, I'd say the issues people face as adults are really just consequences of poor parenting, not necessarily tied to those specific "be a man" or "be a lady" clichés. The heavy lifting is on the parents; a parent who is actually present and engaged will raise a child who feels secure in themselves. Neglected kids, on the other hand, often grow up needing serious help, just like you described in your post, regardless of their gender.

In broken homes, you'll see siblings—a brother and a sister—both struggling with the same issues, like suppressing emotions or acting out destructively. But in healthy, functional families, you'll see siblings who are both stable, living good lives, and expressing themselves in a healthy way. At the end of the day, I think it’s much more about the quality of the upbringing than any specific gendered phrases.

Amen.

Sean Kern2 said:And the best mistakes.

I didn't judge him. Intuitively—maybe even subconsciously—I avoided him, not because I lack empathy or tolerance, which is a ridiculous thing to suggest, but simply because I-didn't-know-how-to-act-around-him. I used the example of how emotional stiffness leads to potential issues, and that is a fact, no matter how much you try to twist my words.

Emotional stiffness isn't depression (though it can lead to it in certain cases), so please, stop conflating the two.

Furthermore, when we're discussing extreme cases of abuse and harassment, it's obvious that these cause excessive behaviors and psychological issues that people carry with them throughout their lives, and the movie presents these extreme cases specifically to draw a conclusion about the bigger picture.

The movie provided current statistics on violence, which is reaching epidemic proportions in the USA and across the rest of the world. The masks—the way people learn to act because they think or are told that's how they should act—might not be the only reason, but they're definitely a significant factor.

To explain, boys grow up, and playing, testing strength, power, and success is a core part of growing up—it's a biological drive for individual success (reproduction). While boys are driving toy cars, playing war, and measuring their strength, women are leaning into tenderness, attractiveness, and maternal roles. End of story. It's always been this way and it's normal behavior. No psychiatrist (and I don't have a high opinion of psychiatry anyway) has any right to peddle their own baseless opinions claiming this needs to change, or worse, that this behavioral model is negative and should be suppressed. They can only offer opinions on excessive behaviors that aren't socially acceptable, because that's what they deal with—that's their job.

Here we go again with the whole "masculinity is just a social construct" thing when it’s clearly rooted in biology. And honestly, where are the girls when it comes to measuring power, competing, and wanting to win? That’s just human nature, not some exclusive male trait. It’s about how we channel that drive without needing to lash out at anyone perceived as "different" or "weaker." But let's be real—so-called men do exactly that constantly, from playground bullies to disrespecting women, all the way up to nations flexing their nukes to intimidate each other. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would actually be hilarious. You can think whatever you want about psychiatrists and psychologists, but they’re the experts on the human mind, and their take on interpersonal dynamics isn't changing just because you don't like it.

Quincy:

My black-and-white view makes sense given how extreme behaviors are constantly presented here as if they're the standard for everyone, which they aren't. Since we're already talking about extremes, why shouldn't I use an extreme framework for this conversation? Bottom line: we all wear masks. Masks are a fundamental part of life used to protect our privacy and keep us from being too vulnerable. Suppressing emotions has always been a survival mechanism in society, and thinking that being wide open in this dangerous world will actually lead to anything productive is just a total illusion.

Look, being an authentic person means being willing to be vulnerable. Vulnerability isn't weakness; it's what makes us human (and sorry if I’m repeating myself, but you’re the one doing it).

In one of your later posts, you laid out certain human needs. So, how exactly is someone wearing a mask supposed to achieve self-actualization? Do you really think people like Mahatma Gandhi, Aung San Suu Kyi, Mother Teresa, or Nelson Mandela were weak?

Quincy:

Everyone needs to find their own way to express emotions in a socially acceptable manner, and there are plenty of ways to learn. Sure, documentaries about world peace and love are easy watching and people love them, but the reality is that those things have zero basis in practice. The bitter truth we all live in is that it's impossible to satisfy everyone's individual desires and needs, and there's nothing we can do to change that.

I don't agree, and I'm never going to. Honestly, I don't even see the point in continuing this debate when we're coming from such polar opposite directions. As far as I'm concerned, let's just agree to disagree.

So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Joseph Bailey41 said:Donna, I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. What on earth does the economy have to do with the ideal of masculinity?

Sure, even without gender roles, men would still be men because of their biology. That holds up. (Well, not always, but that's beside the point). As for this "transfer of power," as a supposedly "clueless woman," I haven't seen anyone take away a man's manhood through policy. Period.

(And look, I don't really take the whole transgender thing seriously, no matter how much it makes me feel like a bad or politically incorrect person.)

I also don't see "feminized masculinity" becoming trendy. Most young guys I see are hitting the gym constantly or going for that rugged lumberjack look, growing out beards thick enough to hide a family of ferrets in.

And yeah, your fashion sense at the office shouldn't matter. Why should it? It's perfectly normal to expect skill, education, and knowledge regardless of what someone wears. Teamwork and success might be more critical in some jobs than others, but again—how does any of that relate to being a man?

Look, maybe I completely missed the point since I haven't watched the movie and don't plan to. Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with the PC feminists who mourn over men being unable to show emotion because of "the patriarchy." They brought these issues on themselves; they can deal with the consequences. It's not like women don't have plenty of our own problems to worry about.

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

I feel like this whole discussion has spiraled into these wild extremes, bouncing between "crybabies" and "ultra-masculine" archetypes.

I mean, obviously, nobody is going to go around sobbing in public—society basically treats that like a massive social faux pas—but when you're behind closed doors with your family, I bet way more people let those tears flow than you'd ever imagine. It’s honestly not a sin to cry and just let it all out; it doesn't make you any less of a man in my book.

**Bolded: oh man, I absolutely love it when someone just wraps up an argument like that, haha** 🙂

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

It sounds like social anxiety to me. ☕

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

Well, some people will, and some won't.

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

Wow, how brave. How heroic! 🙄

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

That isn't about authority; it's about spreading defeatism, which isn't helpful in any serious professional environment.

My manager doesn't cry. 😉

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

Look, if you can't see the propaganda being pushed through the mainstream media, that’s on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. It feels like there isn't a single show on Netflix or HBO lately that doesn't push an LGBTQ+ agenda or promote this specific type of soft feminism. Even if you look at what’s trending in adult content, the patterns are obvious.🤷

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

Honestly, I'm glad the focus on physical fitness has finally reached us here in the States. American men could actually use a wake-up call regarding their health. Right now, it seems like guys start falling apart physically the second they hit their mid-twenties.🤣

Donna White50 said:So, I guess we can agree that we totally disagree on this one. But honestly, I just can't help myself—I have to point out that bullies are usually just victims themselves... kind of like how people who are constantly whining haven't really learned how to stand on their own two feet or fight for what they want. Neither path is exactly "good," if you know what I mean. And look, you say you’re being "authentic," but let’s be real—nobody actually is. It’s kind of an illusion... I mean, just try walking into a meeting with a bunch of strangers and see how much "authenticity" you have left. You’re gonna feel awkward, you'll play it safe, and you won't be spilling your entire life story to people you barely know. In a professional setting, you aren't just dumping your private business on everyone—you keep a bit of distance. I could give you a million examples where we all lean into certain masks or roles just to get by... we throw things out there to protect ourselves or to reach a specific goal. And that’s exactly why we do it—to shield ourselves from the weakness and fragility we’re always talking about. We're just protecting ourselves from getting hurt, judged, misunderstood, or rejected... whatever you want to call it...
Look, those people you mentioned have definitely left a massive mark on the world—but hey, that was their call, right? That was their choice. Personally, I’m just not built that way, and honestly, that kind of lifestyle doesn't really appeal to me either, so I’m not one to judge... but giving up absolutely everything for everyone else? It just feels wrong. From a purely biological standpoint, it doesn't even make sense...

Man, you clearly aren't getting it... Like, when you look at your boss at work—someone who might actually break down or get emotional—do you really see him as a leader, a pillar of strength, or someone with actual authority? Probably not, because those things just don't mesh. They never have...
If you can't see the propaganda being shoved down our throats through the media, that's on you. Maybe pay a little closer attention next time. There isn't a single show lately that doesn't feature gay or lesbian characters, or push this whole "charming femininity" vibe. Just look at what dominates fetish porn today. Young guys are obsessed with hitting the gym because of this modern cult of physique, and you can see the feminization everywhere if you just look at how guys dress, how they groom themselves, and the movies they watch...
The shift in power is basically castrating men. Men don't want dominant women, and they end up losing themselves playing submissive roles to them—and let's be real, women aren't looking for submissive men either. End of story, over and out...

It’s pretty wild that someone who claims to watch fetishistic porn would write something so nonsensical. Truly mind-blowing! 🤦

And honestly, I still haven't seen any evidence of this supposed "power shift" that all the internet trolls keep warning us about.

I’ll be honest—I wear a mask when I'm around people. Since I'm anonymous here, it's easy to admit, but I definitely wouldn't say this out loud to my coworkers or neighbors back home.

The "mask" is this super composed, steady woman who dresses all classy in black, keeps her hair perfect, nails done, and everything just... polished. But underneath? I'm actually a total goofball who loves bright, neon t-shirts, someone who gets teary-eyed over injustice, laughs way too hard, and is just super creative and spontaneous.

I just realized over time that playing this part helps me get by much better in society. Things just run smoother, people accept me more easily, and it’s way easier to make friends and earn respect.

The only time I ever let that guard down was with my ex or when I was hanging with my immediate family... but to the rest of the world, I keep the mask on.

Honestly, it’s totally normal, though, especially in places like Japan where fitting in is such a huge cultural thing.

Nowadays, I feel like everyone is wearing some kind of mask—whether it's the "I don't care about anything" look, the "ice queen" persona, or even the "class clown" act where they force a smile and pretend to be happy.

I really think everybody has one; people who are truly unfiltered are incredibly rare. And honestly, you can always tell. It’s like we all have these built-in sensors that go off whenever someone isn't acting true to themselves. I almost always pick up on it.

Walter Rivera4 said:I’ll be honest—I wear a mask when I'm around people. Since I'm anonymous here, it's easy to admit, but I definitely wouldn't say this out loud to my coworkers or neighbors back home.

The "mask" is this super composed, steady woman who dresses all classy in black, keeps her hair perfect, nails done, and everything just... polished. But underneath? I'm actually a total goofball who loves bright, neon t-shirts, someone who gets teary-eyed over injustice, laughs way too hard, and is just super creative and spontaneous.

I just realized over time that playing this part helps me get by much better in society. Things just run smoother, people accept me more easily, and it’s way easier to make friends and earn respect.

The only time I ever let that guard down was with my ex or when I was hanging with my immediate family... but to the rest of the world, I keep the mask on.

Honestly, it’s totally normal, though, especially in places like Japan where fitting in is such a huge cultural thing.

Nowadays, I feel like everyone is wearing some kind of mask—whether it's the "I don't care about anything" look, the "ice queen" persona, or even the "class clown" act where they force a smile and pretend to be happy.

I really think everybody has one; people who are truly unfiltered are incredibly rare. And honestly, you can always tell. It’s like we all have these built-in sensors that go off whenever someone isn't acting true to themselves. I almost always pick up on it.

Easier to make.. friends.. by wearing a mask.. and people suddenly respect you more.. mask... 👍

I suspect the carica, perhaps unintentionally, isolated the issue regarding how boys are raised—specifically the development of empathy (if I’ve grasped the point correctly). If memory serves, most of the women on this forum focused on that aspect. I’d argue that by attempting to critique it, we are actually just reproducing those old-fashioned gender roles all over again. But then, I suppose that's the flaw in any system built from the ground up; you can't easily escape its roots.

Why is it that women find the greatest struggle within a man's emotional landscape, or even his capacity for empathy? It’s likely because the carica isn't a man, and empathy is that specific bridge that allows her to engage with what she perceives as a well-adjusted male partner. Consequently, we seem to be losing sight of the truly vital part here: the idea of a single man (or woman, for that matter) acting as an individual who should be able to achieve self-actualization THROUGH society, rather than merely conforming to social templates. Once again, we see a collision of ideological spirits—rather emotional, really—trying to reshape reality according to their own quasi-superior principles.

It simply isn't possible to raise a young man or a young woman to embody courage, wisdom, justice, strength, or nobility... Those are abstract concepts. We adapt ourselves to them, especially when we're young, and certainly within this American system, striving to be stronger, braver, more powerful, more successful... And we pursue this by cultivating fitter, more attractive bodies and faster wits (comparatives) that will eventually serve our need to acquire money (to use the term mentioned earlier). 😁

Women are slowly, but surely, moving toward that competitive starting line where they feel they must suppress everything human about themselves just to uphold a market-driven standard.

Donna White50 said:Thomas Nelson25

You don't always have to lay every single emotion out on the table—honestly, just letting kids know they have the space to vent and talk about how they’re feeling is usually enough... The real issue is when all that negative stuff just sits there, building up and staying bottled inside for way too long. People who are actually mentally resilient and steady don't just snap under pressure, you know? But let's be real—most parents just aren't teaching their kids how to do that...
Look, let's be real—status, cash, and a sweet ride aren't just random things. They’re basically the roadmap to success. If a guy knows that having a fat bank account and a nice car is what actually draws women in, then yeah, he’s gonna go after that money and those wheels. That's just how society views value, right? And when you're young, you're just out there hungry for attention, dating, hanging out, and trying to get that respect from the crowd. Honestly, guys are just playing the game to fit in with whatever the people around them expect...

Thomas Nelson25

You're talking nonsense and honestly, you've had a grudge against me since that last thread, and you're just projecting it here.
Look, let me put it this way: when you're an athlete competing, there's no room for tears. When you're defending yourself, there's no room for emotions or crying. At work or in a business meeting, there's no room for tears, weakness, or being overly empathetic. When you're raising a kid, there's no room for crying in front of them... Is that really so hard to wrap your head around?
You can't just label masculinity as inherently bad, and you have zero proof that the world would be better if everyone acted "feminine." And frankly, you know why—even if women express their emotions freely, we all know they can be jealous, spiteful, vengeful, or master manipulators. So, guaranteeing emotional expression doesn't guarantee peace or happiness in the world. Also, people don't go to war just because men feel "manly" or are pumped up on testosterone; it's more about the fundamental inability to accept different opinions or lifestyles. It's easier to judge others and try to grab more power for yourself.
By the way, you're being pretty ridiculous with that example of someone losing loved ones in a short time. Mourning is a personal process—it isn't universal. Everyone goes through it differently, so him being that way doesn't make him a bad person, and you shouldn't be judging him. That's just... not very human of you.
And just to be clear, growing up, I was never into sports, aggression, or acting cold. I've been a pacifist since I can remember—someone who hates weapons and conflict and just tries to understand people's differences. Even so, I don't agree with you (and yes, I watched the documentary twice) no matter how much you want to put me in a specific little box. Nor do I think tears are the only way to show humanity, which I've explained before... because sometimes, when things go wrong, you just have to roll up your sleeves, get to work, give it your all, and grit your teeth. Crying and whining won't solve anything. The movie is garbage because it tries to use empathy to push the idea that masculinity is a bad trait and that men and women should always express every emotion without any masks—which is just a total illusion and a utopia. It's never happened, and it never will...

It feels like you’ve just sat yourself down right on top of a whole bag of whatever ideology is currently clouding your judgment. It’s funny, really—often those who claim to know the opponent's ideological vocabulary inside and out end up slipping right back into that very same camp themselves. Even when they think they're opposing it. We see it everywhere, don't we? One day it's radical feminists, the next it's the pro-life crowd, then the pro-choice side... it all bleeds together.

Anyway, what actually BUGS me (😉), if I'm being honest, is the hypocrisy. You won't apply your own critical method to yourself. I find nothing in your argument particularly convincing. First, you try to convince me that the entire world is just one giant battlefield—from market competition and sports to sex and the economy. You insist this is the reality (EVEN IF IT'S WRONG), and imply that if I don't agree, I'm somehow obligated to go out and buy into it?

Then, on the flip side, you pivot from that "realism" almost instantly into some utopian vision of tomorrow, where people aren't just brainwashed, feminized shells shaped by unrealistic media outlets (😁) that manufacture a version of the world that suits your whims. (EVEN IF IT'S WRONG, suddenly you're ready to get involved). 😁

What does this hypocritical approach reveal to me? Well, first, it shows how deeply we are all subject to ideologies, down to our very core. Second, it suggests you lack the actual arguments to defend your "might makes right" masculine worldview—so instead, you resort to these emotional pleas. And third, given everything said, trying to mold men and women into ideal warriors for a specific social system isn't just irrational; it's neither humane nor fair.

I'd like to believe you aren't doing this intentionally or as part of some grand plan, which is why I'm pointing it out.

Started watching this, but honestly, I bailed right after the intro. I don't know anyone in my neck of the woods who grew up having to follow their old man's word like some kind of mindless drone. Luckily for us, we were raised on different principles. Back then, consumerism wasn't even a thing yet. Maybe only kids from military families dealt with that kind of pressure. 🍿