Religion classes in school - Megathread

Chris Edwards4 said:Well, you might be looking at it wrong; in my district, religious studies is either the very first thing in the morning or the last thing before dismissal, and most kids just go along with it. Still, some parents find something to gripe about—whether it's the textbooks or the fact that religious studies is even offered at school. I heard one mom say she didn't want her kid singled out from the group—like, if everyone else is going, her kid should go too. Honestly, it's hard to wrap my head around the logic regarding these classes... there's always some reason why certain kids are "forced" to attend, even when parents claim they don't agree with any of it. Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye if half the kids go to soccer practice and the others sign up for different extracurriculars 🤔🤔

Does your school only have two classes total? Because if we're looking at it logically, a single teacher could only cover one first period and one last period.

If there are more than just two classes, then I assume your school employs enough teachers to ensure every student gets their religious education during those specific slots? So, if there are 16 classes in the building, does that mean you actually have eight different religion teachers on staff?

Or, to put it simply, you're just being untruthful. ☕

Sam Kim12 said:We’re all on the same page here—no doubt about it.😉.
I don't exactly consider myself a Catholic—and that’s solely because, in my view, faith isn't something you can measure by how often you show up at Mass. Honestly, seeing the crowd of people who make it an obligation to sit in those pews every single Sunday just makes me feel a bit nauseated. To me, true prayer isn't a scheduled performance; I find myself praying when I actually feel the need—most often when I'm standing over my brother's grave.

I didn't sign the kids up for religious education classes—they insisted on doing it themselves, and frankly, if they had asked me, I would have been the first one to say no. But neither my husband nor I wanted to be the ones standing in the way of their own little desires. Besides, the kids don't exactly complain about going to Mass—it’s the extra classes that feel like a chore. They just end up sitting through unnecessary, tedious lessons that they'll eventually learn and forget anyway—though, I suppose there's always the occasional old man showing up with cookies to make it slightly more tolerable. 😬)
It isn’t the faith itself—nor is it the core theology that bears the blame—but rather the people tasked with presenting it. I am talking about the clergy, the religious educators, and even those responsible for drafting the textbooks. They are the ones who distort the message.

Maybe I’m misreading the room, but from where I’m sitting—and I’ve been watching this play out in my local school district for a while now—it seems like everyone is losing their minds over the scheduling of religious studies. It’s an elective, plain and simple. Yet, for some reason, it constantly gets jammed right into the middle of the school day. Meanwhile, look at how they handle a second foreign language—also an elective, mind you—which usually gets tucked away in the first period or shoved to the very end of the day, or even moved to a different shift entirely once the kids hit high school. At least in my district, there's some semblance of logic applied to the languages, but the religious education classes seem to be treated like a mandatory centerpiece of the schedule.😉

Take my situation, for example, where they’ve got foreign language set up as a double block during the fifth and sixth periods, yet they insist on sticking religion class right in the thick of the daily grind. I suppose they think religion requires more mental heavy lifting than learning a new language, so that's why 🙄

Yeah, sure, why don't you just obsess over stuff you know nothing about and clearly don't give a damn about anyway 🤣

Chris Edwards4 said:Well, you might be looking at it wrong; in my district, religious studies is either the very first thing in the morning or the last thing before dismissal, and most kids just go along with it. Still, some parents find something to gripe about—whether it's the textbooks or the fact that religious studies is even offered at school. I heard one mom say she didn't want her kid singled out from the group—like, if everyone else is going, her kid should go too. Honestly, it's hard to wrap my head around the logic regarding these classes... there's always some reason why certain kids are "forced" to attend, even when parents claim they don't agree with any of it. Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye if half the kids go to soccer practice and the others sign up for different extracurriculars 🤔🤔

You're lucky if your religious studies is first or last period.
Seriously, what is the point of having religious education in a public school at all? Why can't it be held at a church, a parish hall, or a monastery? And why on earth would it be scheduled in the middle of the school day instead of being the first or last thing on the schedule?

Personally, I'd much rather see an elective like sports than religious studies. It isn't a problem for me to drive the kids to after-school activities in the evening since I'm home then—but I draw the line at my kids having to switch to a different bus route or shift their entire schedule just for a 45-minute class that ends up wasting two hours of their day.

Michael Lee75 said:Take my situation, for example, where they’ve got foreign language set up as a double block during the fifth and sixth periods, yet they insist on sticking religion class right in the thick of the daily grind. I suppose they think religion requires more mental heavy lifting than learning a new language, so that's why 🙄

It's the same here; either foreign language is in the afternoon shift or it isn't.😉

James Alvarez2 said:Yeah, sure, why don't you just obsess over stuff you know nothing about and clearly don't give a damn about anyway 🤣

🤣 Obviously.

Michael Lee75 said:Take my situation, for example, where they’ve got foreign language set up as a double block during the fifth and sixth periods, yet they insist on sticking religion class right in the thick of the daily grind. I suppose they think religion requires more mental heavy lifting than learning a new language, so that's why 🙄

If you want to take a second language, you have options—you can do a block period or switch things around; you could even enroll in a private language academy where you don't have to deal with the stress of GPA grades. Plus, you can often pick your own instructor or switch if you don't vibe with them, or even drop out mid-year if needed, which you definitely can't do with a standard elective.
Religion class is mandatory within the school curriculum. If you want those sacraments, you pretty much have to attend.

It sounds absurd, but that’s just how it works.
I know some kids who don't take a second language because it's scheduled during the afternoon shift and clashes with their music lessons or soccer practice. Instead, they just study it at home or at a specialized tutoring center where they can pick their own hours. Yet, those same kids still attend religion class because it's tucked into the standard morning schedule and they have to be at school anyway. If it were held in the afternoon, they wouldn't bother.

And honestly, I find this part so interesting: you can't just opt out of religion class at the start of the year if you realize they scheduled it for first period or if a few friends aren't in it. But the moment you get the schedule and see that German is the third period during the afternoon shift—right when your kid has soccer—you can just file a request and it actually gets approved.☕

If you can swing the extra cost for a language school, go for it. 🤷 But let’s be real—not everyone has that kind of breathing room in their budget.
Regarding dropping classes once the schedule drops, there's actually a logic to it. If your German class or Computer Science elective clashes with football or band practice, that’s a totally valid reason to switch things up. But saying, "Oh, Theology is my first period, so I'd rather sleep in"—no, that just doesn't fly. You aren't getting an out for German or Comp Sci just because it's your last period and you want to get home earlier, or because you found out over Labor Day weekend that two of your buddies dropped out.
(By the way, personally, if there's a conflict with music or sports, I try to be a little more flexible 😉 — I mean, kids shouldn't be penalized just because the system is a mess.)

So does that mean they can opt out of religious studies if, say, the kid decides they're an atheist now?

rowdypanther12 said:So does that mean they can opt out of religious studies if, say, the kid decides they're an atheist now?

🤣
look, it might be worth a shot, I suppose.😁

Susan James said:Wait, so the kids just had two hours of language arts and two hours of religion class, and that was it for their entire schedule that day?
That sounds like an absolute dream 🙏

It works out great for anyone skipping religion or choosing a different elective, since English is the only mandatory one... Religion is an elective too. My daughter took it for her first four years, but we pulled her out once she hit fifth grade because the workload is getting heavy. They get history, geography, and tech, then in seventh grade it’s biology, chemistry, physics, and computer science becomes mandatory next year.

rowdypanther12 said:So does that mean they can opt out of religious studies if, say, the kid decides they're an atheist now?

We actually pulled ours out because the fifth-grade schedule is just too packed. We're worried about the burnout. We didn't mention anything about atheism... religion isn't a required subject.

Susan James said:If you want to take a second language, you have options—you can do a block period or switch things around; you could even enroll in a private language academy where you don't have to deal with the stress of GPA grades. Plus, you can often pick your own instructor or switch if you don't vibe with them, or even drop out mid-year if needed, which you definitely can't do with a standard elective.
Religion class is mandatory within the school curriculum. If you want those sacraments, you pretty much have to attend.

It sounds absurd, but that’s just how it works.
I know some kids who don't take a second language because it's scheduled during the afternoon shift and clashes with their music lessons or soccer practice. Instead, they just study it at home or at a specialized tutoring center where they can pick their own hours. Yet, those same kids still attend religion class because it's tucked into the standard morning schedule and they have to be at school anyway. If it were held in the afternoon, they wouldn't bother.

And honestly, I find this part so interesting: you can't just opt out of religion class at the start of the year if you realize they scheduled it for first period or if a few friends aren't in it. But the moment you get the schedule and see that German is the third period during the afternoon shift—right when your kid has soccer—you can just file a request and it actually gets approved.☕

Yes—those are certainly some of the more fascinating quirks within our education system.🙂
It’s absolutely maddening—honestly, it’s a complete bureaucratic circus. Every single year, you’re forced to jump through hoops just to re-register for your second language elective, like they’ve somehow forgotten who you are over the summer break. It’s an exhausting, repetitive loop of paperwork that serves no purpose other than to waste everyone's time. But then—and this is where the real absurdity kicks in—you look at how they handle religion classes. You sign up once, and suddenly it’s hardcoded into your schedule forever. It becomes this automatic, permanent fixture in your curriculum for every subsequent grade. There’s no easy way out; if you decide you aren't interested anymore, you have to go through the whole ordeal of formally requesting a withdrawal at the end of the school year. It’s a total lack of logic—one thing requires constant, annoying upkeep, while the other is practically impossible to shake off without a fight. It’s enough to make anyone lose their mind.🍿

Sarah Hall53 said:If you can swing the extra cost for a language school, go for it. 🤷 But let’s be real—not everyone has that kind of breathing room in their budget.
Regarding dropping classes once the schedule drops, there's actually a logic to it. If your German class or Computer Science elective clashes with football or band practice, that’s a totally valid reason to switch things up. But saying, "Oh, Theology is my first period, so I'd rather sleep in"—no, that just doesn't fly. You aren't getting an out for German or Comp Sci just because it's your last period and you want to get home earlier, or because you found out over Labor Day weekend that two of your buddies dropped out.
(By the way, personally, if there's a conflict with music or sports, I try to be a little more flexible 😉 — I mean, kids shouldn't be penalized just because the system is a mess.)

It all boils down to one inescapable reality—the Catholic lobby has successfully embedded itself into the political machine, and their influence is nothing short of overwhelming. For us mere mortals just trying to navigate daily life, there isn't much we can do about it—it’s a frustratingly rigged game, unfortunately.

I went head-to-head with the religious education teacher back when my kid was in second grade—she actually had the audacity to tell me she couldn't just "remove" a student from the class. So, I did my homework—did some digging into the district policies—and discovered that there is a perfectly valid option for opting out: non-graded status. Essentially, the child doesn't attend the sessions, completes the rest of the school year normally, and simply receives no grade for that specific subject. Once I laid out the facts, the teacher cooled her heels regarding her little power trip—and frankly, the entire class breathed a massive sigh of relief.
I am certainly not an opponent of religious studies in general—there are plenty of beautiful, profound things one can learn from them—but the actual methodology employed by certain believers is nothing short of appalling.

We actually dealt with a situation where they were handing out seals after every Mass—it was part of some rigid ritualistic nonsense preceding St. Price and charisma. You see, so many kids would head out of town to other parts of the US on the weekends, making it impossible for them to attend Mass at our home parish, yet the priest—stubborn as ever—refused to accept any confirmation from a different local church. It triggered a full-blown revolt. We’re talking organized petitions, heated confrontations, and even trips to Capitol Hill to demand a meeting—all of which eventually forced them to scrap the whole seal business and, more broadly, stop making Mass attendance a strict prerequisite for receiving the sacraments😁.

You can actually just file the paperwork without giving some deep, dramatic reason—just saying they aren't interested in taking religious studies anymore works perfectly fine—as long as you get that request in by August 15th.
Some schools might be cool enough to let you opt out even after that date if there’s a scheduling conflict—because, let's be honest, how are you supposed to know on August 14th that German class is going to clash with music when the schedule doesn't even drop until September 4th? And then, of course, the whole thing usually shifts around two or three more times before mid-September anyway. But, strictly speaking, legally they have every right to turn down any request that rolls in after the 15th.

Sam Kim12 said:Yes—those are certainly some of the more fascinating quirks within our education system.🙂
It’s absolutely maddening—honestly, it’s a complete bureaucratic circus. Every single year, you’re forced to jump through hoops just to re-register for your second language elective, like they’ve somehow forgotten who you are over the summer break. It’s an exhausting, repetitive loop of paperwork that serves no purpose other than to waste everyone's time. But then—and this is where the real absurdity kicks in—you look at how they handle religion classes. You sign up once, and suddenly it’s hardcoded into your schedule forever. It becomes this automatic, permanent fixture in your curriculum for every subsequent grade. There’s no easy way out; if you decide you aren't interested anymore, you have to go through the whole ordeal of formally requesting a withdrawal at the end of the school year. It’s a total lack of logic—one thing requires constant, annoying upkeep, while the other is practically impossible to shake off without a fight. It’s enough to make anyone lose their mind.🍿

It all boils down to one inescapable reality—the Catholic lobby has successfully embedded itself into the political machine, and their influence is nothing short of overwhelming. For us mere mortals just trying to navigate daily life, there isn't much we can do about it—it’s a frustratingly rigged game, unfortunately.

I went head-to-head with the religious education teacher back when my kid was in second grade—she actually had the audacity to tell me she couldn't just "remove" a student from the class. So, I did my homework—did some digging into the district policies—and discovered that there is a perfectly valid option for opting out: non-graded status. Essentially, the child doesn't attend the sessions, completes the rest of the school year normally, and simply receives no grade for that specific subject. Once I laid out the facts, the teacher cooled her heels regarding her little power trip—and frankly, the entire class breathed a massive sigh of relief.
I am certainly not an opponent of religious studies in general—there are plenty of beautiful, profound things one can learn from them—but the actual methodology employed by certain believers is nothing short of appalling.

We actually dealt with a situation where they were handing out seals after every Mass—it was part of some rigid ritualistic nonsense preceding St. Price and charisma. You see, so many kids would head out of town to other parts of the US on the weekends, making it impossible for them to attend Mass at our home parish, yet the priest—stubborn as ever—refused to accept any confirmation from a different local church. It triggered a full-blown revolt. We’re talking organized petitions, heated confrontations, and even trips to Capitol Hill to demand a meeting—all of which eventually forced them to scrap the whole seal business and, more broadly, stop making Mass attendance a strict prerequisite for receiving the sacraments😁.

Yeah, my cousin dealt with a total piece of work for a priest (typo: I first wrote priest, but honestly, that description fits this guy perfectly 😂), and she actually had to bring in a doctor's note if she missed Sunday Mass because she was sick. Because of his ridiculous rules, her family couldn't even attend a funeral Mass for her own cousin—meaning her mom had to miss her own nephew's service just because you were required to show up at your specific parish. And not just any service, either; it had to be the exact one he designated, not the one two towns over, or even the afternoon or evening ones.
To make matters worse, he was working hand-in-hand with the religious ed teacher, who would give a failing grade for commitment in the yearbook if you missed three Masses.
(Btw, the girl didn't just drop religion class at the last minute, she's not even Catholic anymore—she switched to Adventists, Evangelicals, or something like that...)

More and more parents here are opting out of religious studies for their kids. In my first grader's class, over half aren't enrolled—and honestly, most who did sign up just did it so their kid wouldn't feel left out... they'll probably pull them out next year anyway. I love Cleveland 😍

Sarah Hall53 said:Yeah, my cousin dealt with a total piece of work for a priest (typo: I first wrote priest, but honestly, that description fits this guy perfectly 😂), and she actually had to bring in a doctor's note if she missed Sunday Mass because she was sick. Because of his ridiculous rules, her family couldn't even attend a funeral Mass for her own cousin—meaning her mom had to miss her own nephew's service just because you were required to show up at your specific parish. And not just any service, either; it had to be the exact one he designated, not the one two towns over, or even the afternoon or evening ones.
To make matters worse, he was working hand-in-hand with the religious ed teacher, who would give a failing grade for commitment in the yearbook if you missed three Masses.
(Btw, the girl didn't just drop religion class at the last minute, she's not even Catholic anymore—she switched to Adventists, Evangelicals, or something like that...)

Ugh... honestly, some priests really do let themselves go way too far.🙂And honestly—if you want to find the absolute worst of them—look no further than those small-town bubbles. It’s always the smaller communities where the narrow-mindedness really takes root.
There used to be this rigid little tradition around here—this insistence that you had to show up strictly for the early morning Mass—but they finally folded on that requirement. Honestly, it was an inevitable surrender to the rebellion of the youth (though if we’re being honest, let's call it what it really was: a revolt by the parents).🤣The biology was just different—it’s a fact. You had these kids who wouldn't be caught dead at an early morning Mass, completely dodging the sunrise services like the plague, yet they’d show up in droves for the midday or evening ones—no questions asked.🤣Everything is handled—smoothly, efficiently, and without a single loose end. 😬

northerntiger9 said:More and more parents here are opting out of religious studies for their kids. In my first grader's class, over half aren't enrolled—and honestly, most who did sign up just did it so their kid wouldn't feel left out... they'll probably pull them out next year anyway. I love Cleveland 😍

We signed her up just to see if she'd actually be interested, since we aren't particularly religious ourselves. Plus, we didn't want her feeling isolated, especially since they're too young to wander the halls alone during that period until fourth grade. But now that she's in fifth, she doesn't have to go. Honestly, with all the core subjects they have now, the workload is getting heavy. We don't want any non-essential fluff distracting her from her main studies.

Sarah Hall53 said:Yeah, my cousin dealt with a total piece of work for a priest (typo: I first wrote priest, but honestly, that description fits this guy perfectly 😂), and she actually had to bring in a doctor's note if she missed Sunday Mass because she was sick. Because of his ridiculous rules, her family couldn't even attend a funeral Mass for her own cousin—meaning her mom had to miss her own nephew's service just because you were required to show up at your specific parish. And not just any service, either; it had to be the exact one he designated, not the one two towns over, or even the afternoon or evening ones.
To make matters worse, he was working hand-in-hand with the religious ed teacher, who would give a failing grade for commitment in the yearbook if you missed three Masses.
(Btw, the girl didn't just drop religion class at the last minute, she's not even Catholic anymore—she switched to Adventists, Evangelicals, or something like that...)

That's where the issue lies, and even my local pastor doesn't get it (he doesn't demand stamps, but the problem shows up differently)—you shouldn't force kids, you should attract them. You gotta inspire them, not blackmail them.

Looking at the teachers I work with at the church—they aren't much different, really 😬

Sam Kim12 said:Yes—those are certainly some of the more fascinating quirks within our education system.🙂
It’s absolutely maddening—honestly, it’s a complete bureaucratic circus. Every single year, you’re forced to jump through hoops just to re-register for your second language elective, like they’ve somehow forgotten who you are over the summer break. It’s an exhausting, repetitive loop of paperwork that serves no purpose other than to waste everyone's time. But then—and this is where the real absurdity kicks in—you look at how they handle religion classes. You sign up once, and suddenly it’s hardcoded into your schedule forever. It becomes this automatic, permanent fixture in your curriculum for every subsequent grade. There’s no easy way out; if you decide you aren't interested anymore, you have to go through the whole ordeal of formally requesting a withdrawal at the end of the school year. It’s a total lack of logic—one thing requires constant, annoying upkeep, while the other is practically impossible to shake off without a fight. It’s enough to make anyone lose their mind.🍿

It all boils down to one inescapable reality—the Catholic lobby has successfully embedded itself into the political machine, and their influence is nothing short of overwhelming. For us mere mortals just trying to navigate daily life, there isn't much we can do about it—it’s a frustratingly rigged game, unfortunately.

I went head-to-head with the religious education teacher back when my kid was in second grade—she actually had the audacity to tell me she couldn't just "remove" a student from the class. So, I did my homework—did some digging into the district policies—and discovered that there is a perfectly valid option for opting out: non-graded status. Essentially, the child doesn't attend the sessions, completes the rest of the school year normally, and simply receives no grade for that specific subject. Once I laid out the facts, the teacher cooled her heels regarding her little power trip—and frankly, the entire class breathed a massive sigh of relief.
I am certainly not an opponent of religious studies in general—there are plenty of beautiful, profound things one can learn from them—but the actual methodology employed by certain believers is nothing short of appalling.

We actually dealt with a situation where they were handing out seals after every Mass—it was part of some rigid ritualistic nonsense preceding St. Price and charisma. You see, so many kids would head out of town to other parts of the US on the weekends, making it impossible for them to attend Mass at our home parish, yet the priest—stubborn as ever—refused to accept any confirmation from a different local church. It triggered a full-blown revolt. We’re talking organized petitions, heated confrontations, and even trips to Capitol Hill to demand a meeting—all of which eventually forced them to scrap the whole seal business and, more broadly, stop making Mass attendance a strict prerequisite for receiving the sacraments😁.

Attending mass should probably be a requirement for a sacrament. Not necessarily a specific mass at a specific church, but going to mass is preparation for a sacrament just like religious ed classes are.

Just like kids have to show up to practice to play the game, or you have to go to language school classes to get your certificate, mass should be a requirement here.

But then you hit the same wall with parents as you do with priests. We want the sacrament, but we don't want to show up to the services 🍿

Shiny! 👏

James Alvarez2 said:That's where the issue lies, and even my local pastor doesn't get it (he doesn't demand stamps, but the problem shows up differently)—you shouldn't force kids, you should attract them. You gotta inspire them, not blackmail them.

Looking at the teachers I work with at the church—they aren't much different, really 😬

Attending mass should probably be a requirement for a sacrament. Not necessarily a specific mass at a specific church, but going to mass is preparation for a sacrament just like religious ed classes are.

Just like kids have to show up to practice to play the game, or you have to go to language school classes to get your certificate, mass should be a requirement here.

But then you hit the same wall with parents as you do with priests. We want the sacrament, but we don't want to show up to the services 🍿

Shiny! 👏

Look, if they understood what was in bold, they might actually get it.😉

Yes, attending Mass is a requirement—BUT it doesn't have to be at one specific service or one specific building and parents get rightfully frustrated by that rigid mindset😉...people head out on road trips or visit family in other cities during the weekend, and I fail to see why it's an issue to attend Mass in a place like Ogulin—why would that service be any less valid?

Sarah Hall53 said:You can actually just file the paperwork without giving some deep, dramatic reason—just saying they aren't interested in taking religious studies anymore works perfectly fine—as long as you get that request in by August 15th.
Some schools might be cool enough to let you opt out even after that date if there’s a scheduling conflict—because, let's be honest, how are you supposed to know on August 14th that German class is going to clash with music when the schedule doesn't even drop until September 4th? And then, of course, the whole thing usually shifts around two or three more times before mid-September anyway. But, strictly speaking, legally they have every right to turn down any request that rolls in after the 15th.

A lot of parents aren't actually aware of this
and nobody really tells them—not during enrollment, and not even when they ask the teacher how to withdraw their child.

Also, just a heads-up: the request definitely needs to be in writing. I've seen cases where they require signatures from both parents, and I know some schools used to insist on a reason. If it wasn't written down, the religion teacher would often step in to chat and see if there was an issue they could actually fix.🕺

Chris Edwards4 said:Well, you might be looking at it wrong; in my district, religious studies is either the very first thing in the morning or the last thing before dismissal, and most kids just go along with it. Still, some parents find something to gripe about—whether it's the textbooks or the fact that religious studies is even offered at school. I heard one mom say she didn't want her kid singled out from the group—like, if everyone else is going, her kid should go too. Honestly, it's hard to wrap my head around the logic regarding these classes... there's always some reason why certain kids are "forced" to attend, even when parents claim they don't agree with any of it. Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye if half the kids go to soccer practice and the others sign up for different extracurriculars 🤔🤔

I mean, you pretty much answered your own question there... So many parents sign their kids up for these classes simply because they're scared! They're terrified for their kids, terrified for themselves, terrified of what the future holds. So, they figure it's safer to just stay in the "herd." Like someone once said, "it's warmer in the herd, even if it stinks."

Real change comes from individuals, though. Not from the mindless crowd.

Susan James said:A lot of parents aren't actually aware of this
and nobody really tells them—not during enrollment, and not even when they ask the teacher how to withdraw their child.

Also, just a heads-up: the request definitely needs to be in writing. I've seen cases where they require signatures from both parents, and I know some schools used to insist on a reason. If it wasn't written down, the religion teacher would often step in to chat and see if there was an issue they could actually fix.🕺

Yeah, a written request—ideally filed through the front office. That actually saves my skin sometimes, because let's be real, some parents are just too lazy to deal with the paperwork, so it's easier for them to just leave the kids in the elective 😉 )
As for asking why... that doesn't surprise me one bit. I find myself doing the exact same thing when my own kids (especially the ones I wouldn't expect it from—they were doing fine and weren't even acting unhappy) want to drop out of their Spanish class. I ask why, if there's anything I can do to change their minds, or if we can find some middle ground... I never once thought anyone would view that as being pushy.