Religion classes in school - Megathread

There’s been a lot of talk lately regarding the religion teacher over at Lincoln Elementary in Chicago.

I think there’s something really important here for parents who might just be enrolling their kids in religion classes out of habit rather than choice, so I’m dropping the
link right here.

Just a little heads-up so you know exactly who you're trusting with your child for two hours every week.

Religion teachers actually have a unique career track. They can earn mentor status after just two years on the job, whereas regular public school teachers have to put in six years to reach that same level.

They can also become advanced advisors after three years, while other teachers have to wait until they've hit the 11-year mark. Since mentor and advisor statuses come with pay bumps, religion teachers tend to climb the salary ladder much faster.

The oversight system for standard teachers versus religion teachers is almost unbelievable. Typically, a principal evaluates a teacher's performance with approval from the Board of Education and the Department of Education.

But for religion teachers, the process is totally different. Their work is evaluated by an advisor from the Diocesan Catechetical Office, or specifically, a specialist from the National Catechetical Directory of the USCCB. Once the Church provides the evaluation, the principal simply signs off on it.

While the Department of Education handles professional development for teachers alongside the principal, religion teachers undergo training overseen by the Diocesan Catechetical Office in coordination with the National Catechetical Office of the USCCB.

Even though there’s been plenty of debate on news sites like CNN (😬) about whether the student who filmed everything should face disciplinary action, it looks like—despite the pressure from the church and those untouchable Vatican agreements—this guy is likely going to lose his job.

I mean, honestly, just the whole idea of hiring religious instructors is controversial enough on its own—it’s one of those things that falls right into the believe it or not category.

The thing is, every other staff member at the school goes through the standard competitive hiring process via public job postings. But with the religious teachers? The local diocese just sends over their picks to the principal, and the principal basically just has to nod along and say "okay."

Sarah Hall53 said:I mean, honestly, just the whole idea of hiring religious instructors is controversial enough on its own—it’s one of those things that falls right into the believe it or not category.

The thing is, every other staff member at the school goes through the standard competitive hiring process via public job postings. But with the religious teachers? The local diocese just sends over their picks to the principal, and the principal basically just has to nod along and say "okay."

Exactly.
One thing I feel is vital—and part of why I got involved—is making parents realize that they shouldn't just enroll their kids in religious ed out of habit (you know, just so they don't stand out or have to sit in the hallway). They need to understand they are handing their child over for two hours a week to someone who might be great, or might not be.
And there isn't much anyone can do about it.
It's also an uphill battle trying to hold teachers accountable when they aren't doing their jobs (and some definitely don't), which often feels like tilting at windmills.

Just yesterday, I heard someone commenting about how wonderful the religion teacher at our local school is, and how she constantly teaches the kids about kindness.🙄
I just said, "Okay, but what happens if she gets sick mid-year and we get a substitute like this one?"
The whole room went silent.

Personally, I wouldn't want my child to face public backlash (which happens quite a bit) just because they used their phone to record something. But realistically, it's sometimes the only way to show someone's true colors, given how much protection these teachers tend to have.
He probably wouldn't have even lost his job if it hadn't gone viral in the news.

(Even though I truly admire my child for filming it, even if I don't fundamentally approve of recording teachers.)

As far as I know, using your phone during class is a total violation of the rules.

Larry Walker24 said:As far as I know, using your phone during class is a total violation of the rules.

So what? If some kid needs to face certain disciplinary actions, let them, but this kind of constant nitpicking is a much bigger problem.

Surreptitious recording is technically a crime, but in this specific instance, you can't blame the kid for filming what they saw.

Unless, of course, someone is trying to defend the indefensible.

Larry Walker24 said:As far as I know, using your phone during class is a total violation of the rules.

Not if it's for self-defense.

Larry Walker24 said:As far as I know, using your phone during class is a total violation of the rules.

🙂 That’s just not true. My students use their phones all the time during my lessons, and honestly, there are some periods where I wouldn't even be able to run the class if they didn't have their phones and internet access at hand.

hiddendriver34 said:🙂 That’s just not true. My students use their phones all the time during my lessons, and honestly, there are some periods where I wouldn't even be able to run the class if they didn't have their phones and internet access at hand.

okay, sure, but using a phone during class without knowing about it or getting the green light from a teacher is basically just breaking the rules.

I am all for getting rid of this guy and anyone else like him—whether they’re religious instructors, teachers, principals, or school counselors—but I don't think we should be giving kids wings right now by letting them sneakily use their phones whenever they want under the guise of whatever purpose they feel like.

Let them film whatever they want; honestly, if they want to actually make it in this country, they need to learn from their mistakes. As for that absolute menace? Throw him straight in federal prison where he belongs.

Maria Parker77 said:Let them film whatever they want; honestly, if they want to actually make it in this country, they need to learn from their mistakes. As for that absolute menace? Throw him straight in federal prison where he belongs.

Well, actually, no, they aren't allowed to use cell phones without explicit permission.
and honestly, that "good guy" probably won't even make it to a courtroom because if you record someone without authorization, you can basically throw the whole thing out the window—it's pretty much useless as evidence in an American court.
losing their job would be the ultimate outcome, I suppose, but maybe that's still better than nothing at all.
i guess i find it somewhat surprising, actually, that the principal even managed to pull that off.

Tossing paper into the plastic bin is a total violation of the rules. Honestly, if I saw my neighbor beating his wife while I was out dropping off the trash, he wouldn't be off the hook just because I sorted my recycling wrong. I suppose in some places, people might actually care about that kind of nonsense, but the logic here is just mind-boggling. Who gives a damn about a stupid cell phone? 🤦

urbantinker8 said:Well, actually, no, they aren't allowed to use cell phones without explicit permission.
and honestly, that "good guy" probably won't even make it to a courtroom because if you record someone without authorization, you can basically throw the whole thing out the window—it's pretty much useless as evidence in an American court.
losing their job would be the ultimate outcome, I suppose, but maybe that's still better than nothing at all.
i guess i find it somewhat surprising, actually, that the principal even managed to pull that off.

Look, I get the rules, but people are gonna do it anyway, and frankly, who cares?

The guy has already been convicted by the court of public opinion thanks to that video. In my book, that’s pretty much enough.

silvertiger11 said:Tossing paper into the plastic bin is a total violation of the rules. Honestly, if I saw my neighbor beating his wife while I was out dropping off the trash, he wouldn't be off the hook just because I sorted my recycling wrong. I suppose in some places, people might actually care about that kind of nonsense, but the logic here is just mind-boggling. Who gives a damn about a stupid cell phone? 🤦

well, personally, I actually do care when rules get ignored, because if we decide that no rules exist anymore, I guess we could all just drift off into some beautiful, chaotic anarchy.🙂
this idiot is breaking the rules.
the kid is breaking the rules too.
there are plenty of ways to let those in charge know that someone is talking absolute nonsense. Revolutions and uprisings happen over much smaller, much less significant things, so I don't see why parents couldn't raise their voices against this?
I'm not saying the kid needs to be punished, but there really ought to be a line drawn somewhere, rather than just treating his behavior like it's some kind of heroic feat.

Jacob Lopez2 said:So what? If some kid needs to face certain disciplinary actions, let them, but this kind of constant nitpicking is a much bigger problem.

I’ve noticed a pattern lately where certain people seem untouchable, almost like the standard for proving their "guilt" is totally different from how they judge any other teacher.
Honestly, I’m convinced this investigation wouldn't have even happened if it hadn't blown up in the media first.

Even though the principal claims she interviewed every single student in that class—and that the firing is based on those interviews rather than video footage—I have a feeling there wouldn't be an investigation at all if a student had just reported bad behavior during class without physical evidence. Even then, those student testimonies probably wouldn't be enough to justify firing someone.
It was just one emotionally charged hour, and at the end of the day, everyone is human and allowed to make mistakes. 😬
But because the principal is acting this way—and honestly, even the local school board wouldn't have a choice—he ended up losing his job.

Personally, I don't think it's right for a child—we're talking about a kid under 14 who isn't even legally liable under American law—to have to deal with any kind of fallout just because the adults in their life acted poorly.
Especially since these are the very people meant to be raising them.

That said, it is heartening to see young people actually standing up and taking action.

Susan James said:I’ve noticed a pattern lately where certain people seem untouchable, almost like the standard for proving their "guilt" is totally different from how they judge any other teacher.
Honestly, I’m convinced this investigation wouldn't have even happened if it hadn't blown up in the media first.

Even though the principal claims she interviewed every single student in that class—and that the firing is based on those interviews rather than video footage—I have a feeling there wouldn't be an investigation at all if a student had just reported bad behavior during class without physical evidence. Even then, those student testimonies probably wouldn't be enough to justify firing someone.
It was just one emotionally charged hour, and at the end of the day, everyone is human and allowed to make mistakes. 😬
But because the principal is acting this way—and honestly, even the local school board wouldn't have a choice—he ended up losing his job.

Personally, I don't think it's right for a child—we're talking about a kid under 14 who isn't even legally liable under American law—to have to deal with any kind of fallout just because the adults in their life acted poorly.
Especially since these are the very people meant to be raising them.

That said, it is heartening to see young people actually standing up and taking action.

From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

Seriously though, this is huge. Now every single professor is going to be walking on eggshells, watching every single word out of their mouths 🤣

urbantinker8 said:From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

Are you talking about regular classroom teachers or the religious ed instructors?

urbantinker8 said:From what I gather, there won't be any repercussions for the kid. Not that I’m saying there should be, since this is such a nuanced, gray area where you can't really say for sure if the ends justify the means.
Based on what I've seen, things could easily spiral out of control in the news if parents teamed up and claimed some idiot is promoting violence or intolerance. The real question is whether they could push the narrative all the way until he loses his job.

As for this idea of youth entrepreneurship: I mean, I admire it, but more often than not, that "entrepreneurial spirit" is really just the drive and financial backing of their parents.

Well, parental encouragement is essential here. 😬
That’s basically our job for the first 18 years of their lives, right? 😂

Plus, kids need some kind of support system.
I know school administrators aren't always big fans of that. And sure, sometimes that parental guidance can go off the rails, but if our ultimate goal is to raise people who stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe in, they need to see that modeled at home. At an age where it's developmentally appropriate, they really need someone to nudge them forward and stand by them when things get tough...

Susan James said:Are you talking about regular classroom teachers or the religious ed instructors?

Well, parental encouragement is essential here. 😬
That’s basically our job for the first 18 years of their lives, right? 😂

Plus, kids need some kind of support system.
I know school administrators aren't always big fans of that. And sure, sometimes that parental guidance can go off the rails, but if our ultimate goal is to raise people who stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe in, they need to see that modeled at home. At an age where it's developmentally appropriate, they really need someone to nudge them forward and stand by them when things get tough...

I suppose I’m just speaking from general experience regarding how parents tend to revolt within the American school system. It seems like they’ll push back against just about anything these days. You post something on Facebook and, well, within minutes, there’s a full-blown mob. Sometimes their grievances are actually valid, and sometimes they aren't really, but once that dust starts kicking up, it’s hard to stop it.

It isn't that school staff don't appreciate an entrepreneurial spirit—not at all.😉
Encouraging initiative and a sense of enterprise is fine, I guess. But unnecessarily poking the bear or starting fires where they don't need to be lit... that's a bit more questionable.
It can often be quite difficult to tell what the actual goal behind a certain "initiative" is supposed to be. (Not that I'm referring to this specific situation right now, obviously.)

idi shove it, lady 🙏 thanks for nothing