Religion classes in school - Megathread

Benjamin Vaughn2 said:Honestly... I can't say I'm surprised by those kids starting a petition.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it abuse, per se—it’s more about eight years of being conditioned in one specific direction. In other words, they've been taught to think a certain way since they were toddlers.
This unfortunate situation should serve as a warning to any parent wondering whether to enroll their child in religion class just "to see what they teach there."
In those classes, you aren't just learning about faith; you are being indoctrinated into it.
Anyone who doesn't want their child raised that way—whether it's the debunking of Santa Claus, the views on the LGBTQ+ community, or teaching that masturbation is a mortal sin, among other things—should probably skip choosing religion as an elective.
As for everyone else, respect. I truly value people who hold firm convictions and raise their children accordingly.

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please, let's not be naive here!!!🙂

Just like I knew exactly how this whole story would play out, I think I have a pretty good idea of the actual motivation behind this "petition."🤦
It isn't about trauma or Stockholm syndrome, goodness knows.

The man of God is handing out straight A's, and that's really what all these kids and their parents are aiming for. That seems to be the crux of the entire situation. Forget about the radical rhetoric or whatever else—those grades are what truly matter to them.🙂
With the full support of their parents, these kids are signing on to save the man of God, mostly because they want to keep those high GPAs coming. You see, these devout parents are terrified of who the church might send to replace him, and they're worried about what that might mean for their future grades, religious rites, and whatnot... excuse me, I meant grades.

After all, nobody actually wants to end up in hell, right?🥳

driftinggull83 said:Honestly, this whole situation is just grim. My kid starts school this year, and this was quite literally the final straw—there is absolutely no way they'll be participating in religious education classes.
What’s the actual landscape like for outliers like us in the Chicago public school system? What percentage of a typical class actually signs up for those courses? And what do the other kids end up doing instead?

Usually, there are just a few kids per class who skip the religious studies part.
If it happens to be the first period of the day, those "rebels" generally just get to sleep in a bit longer.
If it falls at the end of the day, they just head home a little early.
If it's right in the middle of the schedule, or if the kids are staying for after-school programs, they basically just have a free period. Sometimes a teacher might pop in with some different lesson plans, but more often than not, they're just hanging out in the library, or maybe wandering the hallways or the playground.
Even though they aren't always being strictly supervised, I guess it doesn't seem like such a massive deal to me.
You can probably just sit down with your child and agree on where they should hang out and what they should be doing during those 45 minutes.

driftinggull83 said:Honestly, this whole situation is just grim. My kid starts school this year, and this was quite literally the final straw—there is absolutely no way they'll be participating in religious education classes.
What’s the actual landscape like for outliers like us in the Chicago public school system? What percentage of a typical class actually signs up for those courses? And what do the other kids end up doing instead?

The only real way to get religious education stripped from the standard daily schedule is if parents collectively stop opting in. The logic used to keep it in the curriculum is basically that most students attend, and most parents sign their kids up simply because they don't want them feeling left out or neglected. It creates this endless loop. The only way parents can break that cycle is by refusing to enroll their children.

If there were more of us, we'd have actual leverage. We could make a stand. It feels incredibly isolating when your child is the only one skipping those classes. But if you have five or six kids doing the same thing, it becomes much more manageable. At the very least, they won't be stuck wandering the halls or sitting alone in the library; and let's face it, those "alternative" spaces aren't officially regulated, and the school doesn't exactly assign staff to supervise the kids who opted out.

urbantinker8 said:please, let's not be naive here!!!🙂

Just like I knew exactly how this whole story would play out, I think I have a pretty good idea of the actual motivation behind this "petition."🤦
It isn't about trauma or Stockholm syndrome, goodness knows.

The man of God is handing out straight A's, and that's really what all these kids and their parents are aiming for. That seems to be the crux of the entire situation. Forget about the radical rhetoric or whatever else—those grades are what truly matter to them.🙂
With the full support of their parents, these kids are signing on to save the man of God, mostly because they want to keep those high GPAs coming. You see, these devout parents are terrified of who the church might send to replace him, and they're worried about what that might mean for their future grades, religious rites, and whatnot... excuse me, I meant grades.

After all, nobody actually wants to end up in hell, right?🥳

I think I’m pretty much on the same page as you there.
I think I should add one more little detail to this:

When you have teachers like that involved, children end up being the ones who pay the price in these kinds of situations—and honestly, the damage is pretty easy to see. I'm right here! What's on your mind? There are also experts involved who had firsthand knowledge of what was happening during religious education classes but chose to stay silent instead of reporting it.

If the kids were actually going to other teachers to report how he was acting, then they’re in a tough spot. It’s not just about potentially losing an A in religion class; it could easily spill over and impact their grades in his colleagues' classes too.
I took a quick peek at his Facebook profile, and man, he’s definitely got that whole "ultra-patriotic" vibe going on. It looks like he’s posted a bunch of those intense, nationalistic rants—though honestly, it seems like his wife might be cleaning them up for him, or maybe he just scrubbed them himself before the police showed up to pick him up. He’s also a huge fan of those old-school rock anthems; he actually went off on some news outlet just for mentioning kids singing patriotic songs on the last day of school.
If you take a look at his likes, you’ll notice quite a few of his former classmates hanging out there. They’re basically all part of the same circle, teaching those kids together. You can't see his full friends list unless you click through, but once you dive into the likes, you'll see plenty of staff members from that school popping up.

Even if the District Attorney decides not to call other staff members—though you’d think they’d at least want to interview the homeroom teachers—we're still left with a really tough reality. We have kids who are going to be called in to testify against one of their own teachers. On top of that stress, those same teachers are the ones responsible for grading them in subjects that are absolutely vital for their success and getting into high school. It's a heavy situation for everyone involved.

Look, I’m not trying to be a contrarian or take a swipe at teachers here—I really am—but I just want to reiterate what I said at the start of this thread. If you want to avoid all this unnecessary chaos, the simplest solution is just to not sign up for religion electives in the first place.

So, word got out that there was actually a teacher's assistant working during that specific period. I have to say, I’m a little surprised by that. From what I’ve seen with assistants I know, they don't usually get paid to cover elective classes. One assistant I worked with once told me her religion teacher actually told her there was absolutely no point in her sitting in on his class, even after she offered to step in and help him out for free just to support a student.
If he’s really that much of an extremist, I’m honestly baffled. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he feels completely untouchable—like he doesn't care who he's talking in front of because he thinks he's bulletproof. Honestly, the only thing that could have actually tripped him up was that video. Now, I can already see the lawyer jumping in to argue that the footage isn't admissible evidence and trying to flip the script to get the person who filmed it in trouble. 😢).

wanderingbadger44, honestly, do you really think a child’s autism, Down syndrome, or physical disabilities just magically evaporate when they walk into an exam room?

An aide is assigned to the student, not to a specific subject. Their entire job is to be by that student's side, through both classes and breaks.

And regarding our colleague—just like the aide—nobody is foolish enough to stick their neck out when it's obvious that the principal, the school administration, and the parents are all looking the other way. In fact, plenty of people probably think this guy is unhinged, which gives him all the cover he needs to speak comfortably without any real consequences. 🙂

At the end of the day, like the link I shared and what frupy mentioned, we're talking about straight A's here... let's be real. 😬

It's up to the parents now. They just need to let the District Attorney's office take formal statements from their children.

edit: Why would the DA even bother subpoenaing the homeroom teacher? First off, the teacher isn't the colleague's boss, so there's no hierarchy there to exploit. Second, even if he did know something, how could anyone actually prove it? The kids haven't filed a single complaint against the religion teacher; if anything, they're busy signing petitions to make sure he stays.

If a history teacher starts spouting the same nonsense as this religious studies instructor, does that mean we should just scrap the entire history department from the curriculum?

Back in my high school days, ethics was an elective you took if you weren't signed up for religion class. By senior year, there were literally only two students left in the ethics course—so what, should we just delete ethics from the school system too?

Look, what this religious studies teacher is saying is completely unhinged and defies all logic, but we can't just throw the whole subject out the window because of one guy. He absolutely deserves to be disciplined, period. But we shouldn't punish every other religious studies teacher who actually does their job properly and teaches kids according to what they were actually trained to teach.

I suppose religious studies should probably be removed from the public school curriculum entirely, though I suspect my reasoning goes beyond this particular... "ethics instructor."

Yeah, I suppose we’re all just going to act completely blindsided by this, much like how the Secretary of State reacted, pretending this guy is just some one-off outlier or a freak occurrence rather than part of a pattern.

urbantinker8 said:I suppose religious studies should probably be removed from the public school curriculum entirely, though I suspect my reasoning goes beyond this particular... "ethics instructor."

Oh, so you disagree with that?
Because honestly, I haven’t walked into a single classroom yet where there are more kids opting out of the class than the ones actually sitting through it.

In any typical American high school, you've got the choice between elective ethics classes or religious studies.
Honestly, the only people who could actually get in trouble over some teacher’s nonsense would be the principal or maybe the district administration—not the other teachers. As Sarah Hall53 says, even if a kid actually complained about something, there's just no way to prove it. And even if you did manage to prove it, the responsibility wouldn't fall on the staff—it would be on the administrators first. They're the ones who should have stepped in.

The whole thing with teaching assistants is such a mess, too—they all get hired under different circumstances, through different employers, and with totally different contracts. At our school, we actually had assistants coming in from three different sources at the same time. Some were only contracted for 20 hours a week, so they weren't even around during those advisory periods—you know, when they're considered "least needed." Others were tied specifically to a student's heavy course load, and then you had the ones on full 40-hour contracts who were basically with their students all day long—helping them out, waiting with them at the bus stop, chaperoning field trips... basically, regardless of how many actual class hours the student had, those assistants were pulling 7.5-hour days at the school.

It’s impossible to tell how an assistant was assigned, where their funding comes from, or what kind of contract they're actually working under.
I mean, look—if you have an assistant for a student with physical disabilities who can't grab books from their bag, or someone who is deaf or blind, that support is vital for everything—from art class to gym to religious studies.

cosmiccyclist172 said:Oh, so you disagree with that?
Because honestly, I haven’t walked into a single classroom yet where there are more kids opting out of the class than the ones actually sitting through it.

A friend of mine is a teacher for one of those classes.
And honestly, they just cram religion right into the middle of the school schedule—it's such a mess. Like, regardless of all the official stuff with the Vatican or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that ten out of eighteen kids are just sitting out in the hallway during that period.

I suppose I should probably mention Lee Anabell, though I’m never quite sure if bringing her up is the right move or if it just muddies the waters. It feels like one of those things where you want to say something, but then you realize how much nuance is required, and maybe it's better to just let the thought drift. I guess there's a certain way she approaches things that stays with you, sort of lingering in the background of a conversation without ever being the loudest thing in the room, which is perhaps why I find myself thinking about her more often than I intended to. Maybe it’s just the way she carries herself, or maybe I'm just overthinking it, which is a habit I really should try to break, but I don't think I ever will. urbantinker8 says:
So, you don't actually agree with that, then? I guess I might have misread the room a bit, or maybe I'm just overthinking things again, which is a habit of mine, I suppose.
I guess I haven't quite lived long enough to see a classroom where there are actually more kids skipping class than the ones who actually show up, though I suppose that might be a reality in some parts of the country by now.

I mean, I really don't see why there's even an argument to be had here, but I suppose I have to say it: I'm completely against pushing any kind of religion—doesn't matter which one, really—in our public schools. I honestly can't wrap my head around why people find this so controversial or surprising, though I guess that's just how things seem to be lately.
I suppose it’s pretty obvious where faith fits into the grand scheme of things.🥳

Of course, there are more students opting for religion class. It’s almost predictable, really, especially when you consider that whole concept of herd mentality people were mentioning earlier... that whole "herd syndrome" thing, I suppose.☕

driftinggull83 said:Honestly, this whole situation is just grim. My kid starts school this year, and this was quite literally the final straw—there is absolutely no way they'll be participating in religious education classes.
What’s the actual landscape like for outliers like us in the Chicago public school system? What percentage of a typical class actually signs up for those courses? And what do the other kids end up doing instead?

It really depends on the specific neighborhood and the individual school, so I’d definitely suggest checking in locally to see how things are handled in your district. In our local elementary school, about 7 out of 24 first graders didn't attend. By second and third grade, a couple of those kids moved away, but two more decided to opt out too, so we still have 7 students skipping the sessions. During those periods, they usually hang out in the library or in a teacher's classroom (mostly using the time to catch up on math homework). Starting in third grade, the school schedules that block at the very beginning or end of the day, so those kids often just head home early.👍

I'm enrolling my younger one in school right now, and naturally, he won't be attending religion classes either, even if he ends up being the only one left in the room.😉

Susan James said:I think I’m pretty much on the same page as you there.
I think I should add one more little detail to this:

When you have teachers like that involved, children end up being the ones who pay the price in these kinds of situations—and honestly, the damage is pretty easy to see. I'm right here! What's on your mind? There are also experts involved who had firsthand knowledge of what was happening during religious education classes but chose to stay silent instead of reporting it.

If the kids were actually going to other teachers to report how he was acting, then they’re in a tough spot. It’s not just about potentially losing an A in religion class; it could easily spill over and impact their grades in his colleagues' classes too.
I took a quick peek at his Facebook profile, and man, he’s definitely got that whole "ultra-patriotic" vibe going on. It looks like he’s posted a bunch of those intense, nationalistic rants—though honestly, it seems like his wife might be cleaning them up for him, or maybe he just scrubbed them himself before the police showed up to pick him up. He’s also a huge fan of those old-school rock anthems; he actually went off on some news outlet just for mentioning kids singing patriotic songs on the last day of school.
If you take a look at his likes, you’ll notice quite a few of his former classmates hanging out there. They’re basically all part of the same circle, teaching those kids together. You can't see his full friends list unless you click through, but once you dive into the likes, you'll see plenty of staff members from that school popping up.

Even if the District Attorney decides not to call other staff members—though you’d think they’d at least want to interview the homeroom teachers—we're still left with a really tough reality. We have kids who are going to be called in to testify against one of their own teachers. On top of that stress, those same teachers are the ones responsible for grading them in subjects that are absolutely vital for their success and getting into high school. It's a heavy situation for everyone involved.

Look, I’m not trying to be a contrarian or take a swipe at teachers here—I really am—but I just want to reiterate what I said at the start of this thread. If you want to avoid all this unnecessary chaos, the simplest solution is just to not sign up for religion electives in the first place.

So, word got out that there was actually a teacher's assistant working during that specific period. I have to say, I’m a little surprised by that. From what I’ve seen with assistants I know, they don't usually get paid to cover elective classes. One assistant I worked with once told me her religion teacher actually told her there was absolutely no point in her sitting in on his class, even after she offered to step in and help him out for free just to support a student.
If he’s really that much of an extremist, I’m honestly baffled. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he feels completely untouchable—like he doesn't care who he's talking in front of because he thinks he's bulletproof. Honestly, the only thing that could have actually tripped him up was that video. Now, I can already see the lawyer jumping in to argue that the footage isn't admissible evidence and trying to flip the script to get the person who filmed it in trouble. 😢).

Teachers aren't signing some blood oath in the faculty lounge to protect one another.

The vibe in a teachers' lounge is just like any other workplace in the States—people have their favorites, they have their rivals, they grab coffee and gossip. I don't see any reason why a group of teachers would go out of their way to tank a student's grades just because that kid blew the whistle on a colleague!😲 Do you honestly think that's how it works? That they'd sabotage a kid just out of "loyalty" to a coworker?!

I honestly don't get why they can't just let kids swap religion class for an elective in computer science or a foreign language instead.

The real question is, who would actually bother showing up for religion class if they had the choice?

Larry Walker24 said:I honestly don't get why they can't just let kids swap religion class for an elective in computer science or a foreign language instead.

The real question is, who would actually bother showing up for religion class if they had the choice?

Or call it "Religious Culture."
Honestly, I feel like you can't really call yourself well-rounded if you lack a basic understanding of religion—especially Christianity—and don't know the Bible. You won't be able to truly appreciate Michelangelo's sculptures, let alone dive into the works of Dante, Milton, or even classic American poets like Whitman.

We touch on the Bible briefly during freshman year English class, but it’s just not enough. There isn't any real time or space for it in the curriculum. So, learning about stories involving Moses, Jesus, Adam, and Eve gets pushed entirely onto religious studies, which essentially trades actual education for indoctrination.

If my kid was stuck in a class like that... man... I'd lose it.
The principal, all the teachers, the parents, even the cops.
There is zero chance I’m letting my child get dragged into this mess just to be put on display.

It's just wrong for kids... seriously...

Idiots are everywhere, whether you're talking about general school life or just some religious ed class... honestly, I can't wrap my head around why people are actually siding with the kid who was filming everything.
If I were the teacher, having "Big Brother" watching my every move wouldn't sit well with me either.

Yeah, how does the saying go? First they came for the walls... I didn't get involved since I'm not Jewish...

rowdypanther12 said:Yeah, how does the saying go? First they came for the walls... I didn't get involved since I'm not Jewish...

what's your actual point here?

I suppose everyone really just needs to make their own choice for themselves, without constantly looking over their shoulder at what the neighbors might think.
If people spent less energy worrying about what Mom, the mother-in-law, Grandma, or the folks down the street would say, life might be a little simpler; we wouldn't have these sort of herd-mentality crusades where religious education in schools becomes this collective obligation based on the idea that "everyone else is doing it, so my kid should too."
If someone actually cares about the faith, they'll head to church.☕

If it matters to me that my child doesn't attend religion classes, then they won't go.
If I decide I want them to go, then they will.

My own stance is pretty clear, and I guess I don't particularly care about anyone else's views.
I certainly don't want others meddling in my decisions or moral dilemmas, and I try not to poke my nose into theirs either.

My main point is just that I’m frustrated with people who refuse to step up and take a stand.
It bothers me when people won't shake things up or teach their kids to hold their heads high instead of just blending into the background.
I really can't stand how some people lack any backbone, and then they turn around and pass that same passivity down to their children.