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Religion classes in school - Megathread

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Larry Walker24 Larry Walker24 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2022
#581 ·
My daughter was targeted by systemic bullying and brutal insults at school—kids actually called her Satan just because she didn't go to church. Now, watching this new administration in D.C. get their "blessing" through prayers and holy water before they start rolling out their new cabinet ministers... honestly, it makes me sick. As a mother, I feel this wave of nausea and genuine fear. I can't help but wonder if we're heading back to those dark, ignorant days. With the church stepping back into the spotlight like this, am I going to see more kids getting humiliated and tortured just because they don't fit a religious mold? It feels like that old-school intolerance is making a comeback.

Judging by what people are saying on social media, this Chicago intellectual isn't alone in her fear. A ton of other parents feel the exact same way—watching their kids deal with nothing but pure contempt and bullying from classmates just because they don't show up to Sunday school or church.

People probably jumped to conclusions about her after just reading a few lines—labeling her some kind of old-school radical, a nostalgic dreamer, or even a Mexican woman. But honestly? They couldn’t be more wrong about Davorka Semenić. She grew up in a devout Catholic household, took religion classes, and had a traditional church wedding, but at the end of the day, she’s an intellectual through and through. She’s a true cosmopolitan who actually cares about the big picture. That’s exactly how she chose to raise her daughter, too, though it turns out that kind of parenting comes with a massive price tag here in America.

I grew up Catholic, plain and simple. I’ve been in Sunday school since I was five years old, and back in the seventies, I was part of that first little group of kids doing First Communion at our local parish in the suburbs of Chicago. It was a tiny crowd—just four girls from my class heading to class once a week. School wasn't really an issue, but I do remember this one awkward moment that stuck with me. I was in second grade when my teacher called me up to the chalkboard in front of everyone. She pointed out that I went to church and then asked me to write down the names of all the other kids in class who attended too. I felt the heat immediately; I could see a few kids in the room giving me these judgmental, mocking looks. My parents, though, weren't having any of it. They stepped in, and the teacher actually ended up apologizing and backing off. Honestly, it didn't mess with my grades or how she treated me after that. I never dealt with any more bullying for being religious after that incident. Back then, it just wasn't a topic of conversation—it was private. And honestly, that's how it should be today. Whatever faith someone chooses is their own business, period.

And then the '90s hit... everything changed.

My boyfriend was just some college kid back then—total casual vibe, jeans and sneakers—when he got drafted to go fight in the war. He’s American through and through, but he wasn't religious, and his family didn't exactly grow up in the pews. Still, he always figured it would be fine for us to have a church wedding. Now, I know there are ways for Catholics to marry someone from a different faith, but since he didn't belong to any denomination at all, things got incredibly messy. The Church insisted he get baptized first. To pull that off, they made him commit to six months of religious education classes. Can you believe that? We were right in the middle of a war, and the guy didn't even know if he’d make it back alive from the front lines, yet here we were dealing with this nonsense. That was the moment I really felt let down by the Church, so we decided to just go ahead with a civil ceremony back in '91. Eventually, we managed to pull the necessary permits from the local Archdiocese to allow a mixed marriage, and in '94, we finally had our wedding in a small chapel outside of San Diego with my old teacher officiating. Even after that, dealing with the massive, slow-moving religious bureaucracy was a nightmare—it kept tripping us up even when we were welcoming our daughter into the world.

When we went to get our daughter baptized at that same old Catholic church I used to attend for Sunday school as a kid, things got weird fast. The priest was filling out the paperwork and wrote down that her father was an American, and then he just assumed—like it was some automatic rule—that he had to be listed as Catholic too. I told him straight up, "No, that’s not right," and we ended up getting into this heated argument. He actually had the nerve to snap at me, asking how we even managed to get married in a church in the first place if we weren't following their rules. In the end, we just walked out and took our daughter to a different church to get it done.

They literally followed her all the way from school to her front door just screaming "Satan!" at the top of their lungs.

Everything was fine back when my daughter was in preschool, until we got back from our summer vacation and I walked in to find this massive crucifix staring me down from the wall—I'm talking floor-to-ceiling. Look, I’m a believer, but I can't stand it when people force their faith on everyone else like that. It’s totally disrespectful to ignore the fact that you’ve got atheists, agnostics, and kids from all sorts of different religious backgrounds in one classroom. Even as a Catholic, I feel strongly that religious symbols have no business being in schools, daycares, or any kind of public institution. Fast forward to when my kid started elementary school, and the teacher's very first move on day one was pulling all the parents aside to ask who wanted their kid opted out of religion class.

"We live in this quiet American suburb where everyone—except my husband—has always been religious. It turned out our daughter was the only one who didn't want to take religion classes, so we just went along with it at school so she wouldn't feel left out. But once she hit third grade and they started prepping kids for First Communion, suddenly the school lessons weren't enough. The church demanded she attend extra classes and Sunday Mass along with us parents. We weren't okay with being forced into that kind of thing, so we stepped away from the religion classes, the communion, and the services entirely," says the mother of a girl whose life basically flipped upside down after that decision. The fallout started with her teacher, and then, as usual, the other kids in class followed suit.

"The teacher was clearly stunned that we wouldn't bow down to every single demand from the church. She’d make these snide little comments here and there, which we didn't think was a huge deal—until the other kids started freezing her out. It's about a twenty-minute walk from school to our house, and her former friends would literally follow her the whole way just to yell 'Satan!' at her," recalls the woman from Chicago.

When asked if she and her husband stood up to those blatant provocations against their child, she admits—no, unfortunately they didn't. They had no idea what she was going through because she kept quiet, terrified that speaking up would just make everything even more complicated.

"What did you expect, having a non-believer in the house?"

"She didn't tell me the full extent of the bullying and the insults she dealt with daily until sixth grade. Back then, they were learning about the Crusades in class, and the teacher insisted Muslims were to blame for everything. My kid, visibly upset, actually asked, 'Well, what about the Inquisition?' The other kids just stared at her blankly because they'd never even heard the word, and the teacher just shut her down, saying it wasn't the time or place for such a debate. Once she finally opened up to me, I asked several kids in her class what they were actually being taught that made them so cruel to one another. They just stayed silent, unable to answer. But at a parent-teacher meeting, the mom of one kid straight-up asked me, with zero manners, what I expected when I have a non-believer living under my roof," says Davorka Semenić.

She also remembers how her daughter was the only one to pull an A on a religion test in seventh grade. While her classmates—the ones who went to church religiously—answered the question 'What makes a true believer?' with 'Constant prayer and attending church,' the girl they called Satan wrote: 'A true believer is someone who shows kindness to all living beings!'

"As a family, we really try to embrace differences and be tolerant. That's why our home library is packed with all kinds of books, including religious ones, because we believe reading them is part of being well-rounded. Since the Quran was the only thing missing from our collection, we found a copy at a local book fair and she got it as a gift. But when her college classmates found out, they harassed her, claiming a 'real' Catholic would never buy something like that. These kids think they're 'true' Catholics just because they cross themselves whenever they pass a church, yet they won't even give up a seat on the subway for the elderly, the sick, or a mother with a stroller. Even though they don't openly complain about her reading the Quran, the professors at the university do absolutely nothing to stop this toxic animosity among the students," says the professor from Chicago.

After everything she endured growing up, she eventually decided to go through with her First Communion and Confirmation at sixteen. Despite all the pressure from everyone around her, Davorka Semenić and her husband are proud today that their daughter grew up to be a smart, independent young woman who thinks for herself.

this is just gross
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#582 ·
Larry Walker24 said:My daughter was targeted by systemic bullying and brutal insults at school—kids actually called her Satan just because she didn't go to church. Now, watching this new administration in D.C. get their "blessing" through prayers and holy water before they start rolling out their new cabinet ministers... honestly, it makes me sick. As a mother, I feel this wave of nausea and genuine fear. I can't help but wonder if we're heading back to those dark, ignorant days. With the church stepping back into the spotlight like this, am I going to see more kids getting humiliated and tortured just because they don't fit a religious mold? It feels like that old-school intolerance is making a comeback.

Judging by what people are saying on social media, this Chicago intellectual isn't alone in her fear. A ton of other parents feel the exact same way—watching their kids deal with nothing but pure contempt and bullying from classmates just because they don't show up to Sunday school or church.

People probably jumped to conclusions about her after just reading a few lines—labeling her some kind of old-school radical, a nostalgic dreamer, or even a Mexican woman. But honestly? They couldn’t be more wrong about Davorka Semenić. She grew up in a devout Catholic household, took religion classes, and had a traditional church wedding, but at the end of the day, she’s an intellectual through and through. She’s a true cosmopolitan who actually cares about the big picture. That’s exactly how she chose to raise her daughter, too, though it turns out that kind of parenting comes with a massive price tag here in America.

I grew up Catholic, plain and simple. I’ve been in Sunday school since I was five years old, and back in the seventies, I was part of that first little group of kids doing First Communion at our local parish in the suburbs of Chicago. It was a tiny crowd—just four girls from my class heading to class once a week. School wasn't really an issue, but I do remember this one awkward moment that stuck with me. I was in second grade when my teacher called me up to the chalkboard in front of everyone. She pointed out that I went to church and then asked me to write down the names of all the other kids in class who attended too. I felt the heat immediately; I could see a few kids in the room giving me these judgmental, mocking looks. My parents, though, weren't having any of it. They stepped in, and the teacher actually ended up apologizing and backing off. Honestly, it didn't mess with my grades or how she treated me after that. I never dealt with any more bullying for being religious after that incident. Back then, it just wasn't a topic of conversation—it was private. And honestly, that's how it should be today. Whatever faith someone chooses is their own business, period.

And then the '90s hit... everything changed.

My boyfriend was just some college kid back then—total casual vibe, jeans and sneakers—when he got drafted to go fight in the war. He’s American through and through, but he wasn't religious, and his family didn't exactly grow up in the pews. Still, he always figured it would be fine for us to have a church wedding. Now, I know there are ways for Catholics to marry someone from a different faith, but since he didn't belong to any denomination at all, things got incredibly messy. The Church insisted he get baptized first. To pull that off, they made him commit to six months of religious education classes. Can you believe that? We were right in the middle of a war, and the guy didn't even know if he’d make it back alive from the front lines, yet here we were dealing with this nonsense. That was the moment I really felt let down by the Church, so we decided to just go ahead with a civil ceremony back in '91. Eventually, we managed to pull the necessary permits from the local Archdiocese to allow a mixed marriage, and in '94, we finally had our wedding in a small chapel outside of San Diego with my old teacher officiating. Even after that, dealing with the massive, slow-moving religious bureaucracy was a nightmare—it kept tripping us up even when we were welcoming our daughter into the world.

When we went to get our daughter baptized at that same old Catholic church I used to attend for Sunday school as a kid, things got weird fast. The priest was filling out the paperwork and wrote down that her father was an American, and then he just assumed—like it was some automatic rule—that he had to be listed as Catholic too. I told him straight up, "No, that’s not right," and we ended up getting into this heated argument. He actually had the nerve to snap at me, asking how we even managed to get married in a church in the first place if we weren't following their rules. In the end, we just walked out and took our daughter to a different church to get it done.

They literally followed her all the way from school to her front door just screaming "Satan!" at the top of their lungs.

Everything was fine back when my daughter was in preschool, until we got back from our summer vacation and I walked in to find this massive crucifix staring me down from the wall—I'm talking floor-to-ceiling. Look, I’m a believer, but I can't stand it when people force their faith on everyone else like that. It’s totally disrespectful to ignore the fact that you’ve got atheists, agnostics, and kids from all sorts of different religious backgrounds in one classroom. Even as a Catholic, I feel strongly that religious symbols have no business being in schools, daycares, or any kind of public institution. Fast forward to when my kid started elementary school, and the teacher's very first move on day one was pulling all the parents aside to ask who wanted their kid opted out of religion class.

"We live in this quiet American suburb where everyone—except my husband—has always been religious. It turned out our daughter was the only one who didn't want to take religion classes, so we just went along with it at school so she wouldn't feel left out. But once she hit third grade and they started prepping kids for First Communion, suddenly the school lessons weren't enough. The church demanded she attend extra classes and Sunday Mass along with us parents. We weren't okay with being forced into that kind of thing, so we stepped away from the religion classes, the communion, and the services entirely," says the mother of a girl whose life basically flipped upside down after that decision. The fallout started with her teacher, and then, as usual, the other kids in class followed suit.

"The teacher was clearly stunned that we wouldn't bow down to every single demand from the church. She’d make these snide little comments here and there, which we didn't think was a huge deal—until the other kids started freezing her out. It's about a twenty-minute walk from school to our house, and her former friends would literally follow her the whole way just to yell 'Satan!' at her," recalls the woman from Chicago.

When asked if she and her husband stood up to those blatant provocations against their child, she admits—no, unfortunately they didn't. They had no idea what she was going through because she kept quiet, terrified that speaking up would just make everything even more complicated.

"What did you expect, having a non-believer in the house?"

"She didn't tell me the full extent of the bullying and the insults she dealt with daily until sixth grade. Back then, they were learning about the Crusades in class, and the teacher insisted Muslims were to blame for everything. My kid, visibly upset, actually asked, 'Well, what about the Inquisition?' The other kids just stared at her blankly because they'd never even heard the word, and the teacher just shut her down, saying it wasn't the time or place for such a debate. Once she finally opened up to me, I asked several kids in her class what they were actually being taught that made them so cruel to one another. They just stayed silent, unable to answer. But at a parent-teacher meeting, the mom of one kid straight-up asked me, with zero manners, what I expected when I have a non-believer living under my roof," says Davorka Semenić.

She also remembers how her daughter was the only one to pull an A on a religion test in seventh grade. While her classmates—the ones who went to church religiously—answered the question 'What makes a true believer?' with 'Constant prayer and attending church,' the girl they called Satan wrote: 'A true believer is someone who shows kindness to all living beings!'

"As a family, we really try to embrace differences and be tolerant. That's why our home library is packed with all kinds of books, including religious ones, because we believe reading them is part of being well-rounded. Since the Quran was the only thing missing from our collection, we found a copy at a local book fair and she got it as a gift. But when her college classmates found out, they harassed her, claiming a 'real' Catholic would never buy something like that. These kids think they're 'true' Catholics just because they cross themselves whenever they pass a church, yet they won't even give up a seat on the subway for the elderly, the sick, or a mother with a stroller. Even though they don't openly complain about her reading the Quran, the professors at the university do absolutely nothing to stop this toxic animosity among the students," says the professor from Chicago.

After everything she endured growing up, she eventually decided to go through with her First Communion and Confirmation at sixteen. Despite all the pressure from everyone around her, Davorka Semenić and her husband are proud today that their daughter grew up to be a smart, independent young woman who thinks for herself.

this is just gross

It just goes to show that even if you have good and bad people, you still need religion to turn those "good" folks into monsters who think they're doing God's work while being absolute jerks.

There’s a silver lining, though. The girl got a reality check, and the bullies? They're just stuck swallowing their own bitterness.
Susan James Susan James VeteranOP
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#583 ·
Larry Walker24 said:My daughter was targeted by systemic bullying and brutal insults at school—kids actually called her Satan just because she didn't go to church. Now, watching this new administration in D.C. get their "blessing" through prayers and holy water before they start rolling out their new cabinet ministers... honestly, it makes me sick. As a mother, I feel this wave of nausea and genuine fear. I can't help but wonder if we're heading back to those dark, ignorant days. With the church stepping back into the spotlight like this, am I going to see more kids getting humiliated and tortured just because they don't fit a religious mold? It feels like that old-school intolerance is making a comeback.

Judging by what people are saying on social media, this Chicago intellectual isn't alone in her fear. A ton of other parents feel the exact same way—watching their kids deal with nothing but pure contempt and bullying from classmates just because they don't show up to Sunday school or church.

People probably jumped to conclusions about her after just reading a few lines—labeling her some kind of old-school radical, a nostalgic dreamer, or even a Mexican woman. But honestly? They couldn’t be more wrong about Davorka Semenić. She grew up in a devout Catholic household, took religion classes, and had a traditional church wedding, but at the end of the day, she’s an intellectual through and through. She’s a true cosmopolitan who actually cares about the big picture. That’s exactly how she chose to raise her daughter, too, though it turns out that kind of parenting comes with a massive price tag here in America.

I grew up Catholic, plain and simple. I’ve been in Sunday school since I was five years old, and back in the seventies, I was part of that first little group of kids doing First Communion at our local parish in the suburbs of Chicago. It was a tiny crowd—just four girls from my class heading to class once a week. School wasn't really an issue, but I do remember this one awkward moment that stuck with me. I was in second grade when my teacher called me up to the chalkboard in front of everyone. She pointed out that I went to church and then asked me to write down the names of all the other kids in class who attended too. I felt the heat immediately; I could see a few kids in the room giving me these judgmental, mocking looks. My parents, though, weren't having any of it. They stepped in, and the teacher actually ended up apologizing and backing off. Honestly, it didn't mess with my grades or how she treated me after that. I never dealt with any more bullying for being religious after that incident. Back then, it just wasn't a topic of conversation—it was private. And honestly, that's how it should be today. Whatever faith someone chooses is their own business, period.

And then the '90s hit... everything changed.

My boyfriend was just some college kid back then—total casual vibe, jeans and sneakers—when he got drafted to go fight in the war. He’s American through and through, but he wasn't religious, and his family didn't exactly grow up in the pews. Still, he always figured it would be fine for us to have a church wedding. Now, I know there are ways for Catholics to marry someone from a different faith, but since he didn't belong to any denomination at all, things got incredibly messy. The Church insisted he get baptized first. To pull that off, they made him commit to six months of religious education classes. Can you believe that? We were right in the middle of a war, and the guy didn't even know if he’d make it back alive from the front lines, yet here we were dealing with this nonsense. That was the moment I really felt let down by the Church, so we decided to just go ahead with a civil ceremony back in '91. Eventually, we managed to pull the necessary permits from the local Archdiocese to allow a mixed marriage, and in '94, we finally had our wedding in a small chapel outside of San Diego with my old teacher officiating. Even after that, dealing with the massive, slow-moving religious bureaucracy was a nightmare—it kept tripping us up even when we were welcoming our daughter into the world.

When we went to get our daughter baptized at that same old Catholic church I used to attend for Sunday school as a kid, things got weird fast. The priest was filling out the paperwork and wrote down that her father was an American, and then he just assumed—like it was some automatic rule—that he had to be listed as Catholic too. I told him straight up, "No, that’s not right," and we ended up getting into this heated argument. He actually had the nerve to snap at me, asking how we even managed to get married in a church in the first place if we weren't following their rules. In the end, we just walked out and took our daughter to a different church to get it done.

They literally followed her all the way from school to her front door just screaming "Satan!" at the top of their lungs.

Everything was fine back when my daughter was in preschool, until we got back from our summer vacation and I walked in to find this massive crucifix staring me down from the wall—I'm talking floor-to-ceiling. Look, I’m a believer, but I can't stand it when people force their faith on everyone else like that. It’s totally disrespectful to ignore the fact that you’ve got atheists, agnostics, and kids from all sorts of different religious backgrounds in one classroom. Even as a Catholic, I feel strongly that religious symbols have no business being in schools, daycares, or any kind of public institution. Fast forward to when my kid started elementary school, and the teacher's very first move on day one was pulling all the parents aside to ask who wanted their kid opted out of religion class.

"We live in this quiet American suburb where everyone—except my husband—has always been religious. It turned out our daughter was the only one who didn't want to take religion classes, so we just went along with it at school so she wouldn't feel left out. But once she hit third grade and they started prepping kids for First Communion, suddenly the school lessons weren't enough. The church demanded she attend extra classes and Sunday Mass along with us parents. We weren't okay with being forced into that kind of thing, so we stepped away from the religion classes, the communion, and the services entirely," says the mother of a girl whose life basically flipped upside down after that decision. The fallout started with her teacher, and then, as usual, the other kids in class followed suit.

"The teacher was clearly stunned that we wouldn't bow down to every single demand from the church. She’d make these snide little comments here and there, which we didn't think was a huge deal—until the other kids started freezing her out. It's about a twenty-minute walk from school to our house, and her former friends would literally follow her the whole way just to yell 'Satan!' at her," recalls the woman from Chicago.

When asked if she and her husband stood up to those blatant provocations against their child, she admits—no, unfortunately they didn't. They had no idea what she was going through because she kept quiet, terrified that speaking up would just make everything even more complicated.

"What did you expect, having a non-believer in the house?"

"She didn't tell me the full extent of the bullying and the insults she dealt with daily until sixth grade. Back then, they were learning about the Crusades in class, and the teacher insisted Muslims were to blame for everything. My kid, visibly upset, actually asked, 'Well, what about the Inquisition?' The other kids just stared at her blankly because they'd never even heard the word, and the teacher just shut her down, saying it wasn't the time or place for such a debate. Once she finally opened up to me, I asked several kids in her class what they were actually being taught that made them so cruel to one another. They just stayed silent, unable to answer. But at a parent-teacher meeting, the mom of one kid straight-up asked me, with zero manners, what I expected when I have a non-believer living under my roof," says Davorka Semenić.

She also remembers how her daughter was the only one to pull an A on a religion test in seventh grade. While her classmates—the ones who went to church religiously—answered the question 'What makes a true believer?' with 'Constant prayer and attending church,' the girl they called Satan wrote: 'A true believer is someone who shows kindness to all living beings!'

"As a family, we really try to embrace differences and be tolerant. That's why our home library is packed with all kinds of books, including religious ones, because we believe reading them is part of being well-rounded. Since the Quran was the only thing missing from our collection, we found a copy at a local book fair and she got it as a gift. But when her college classmates found out, they harassed her, claiming a 'real' Catholic would never buy something like that. These kids think they're 'true' Catholics just because they cross themselves whenever they pass a church, yet they won't even give up a seat on the subway for the elderly, the sick, or a mother with a stroller. Even though they don't openly complain about her reading the Quran, the professors at the university do absolutely nothing to stop this toxic animosity among the students," says the professor from Chicago.

After everything she endured growing up, she eventually decided to go through with her First Communion and Confirmation at sixteen. Despite all the pressure from everyone around her, Davorka Semenić and her husband are proud today that their daughter grew up to be a smart, independent young woman who thinks for herself.

this is just gross

The article covers a bit of everything, but it really boils down to that old "we're all different, but let's just play along with the system to survive" mentality. It's like, sure, you can be a cosmopolitan individual and read anything from scripture to classic literature in private, but once you step out in front of the public, you’re expected to cross yourself just because that's what the people in power want. You marry in the church, you baptize your kid, and then that kid has to take religious education in school just to avoid being the odd one out.

To me, the whole piece feels like a subtle instruction manual for parents: send your kids to religious classes, otherwise, the people who love to perform piety will mock you or label you an outcast.
🤷
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#584 ·
This whole article is incredibly biased and just flat-out dishonest.
It feels like it was engineered specifically to stir up an outrage mob, baiting people into clicking and venting in the comments just so Bloomberg could rake in the ad revenue.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#585 ·
Susan James said:The article covers a bit of everything, but it really boils down to that old "we're all different, but let's just play along with the system to survive" mentality. It's like, sure, you can be a cosmopolitan individual and read anything from scripture to classic literature in private, but once you step out in front of the public, you’re expected to cross yourself just because that's what the people in power want. You marry in the church, you baptize your kid, and then that kid has to take religious education in school just to avoid being the odd one out.

To me, the whole piece feels like a subtle instruction manual for parents: send your kids to religious classes, otherwise, the people who love to perform piety will mock you or label you an outcast.
🤷

Exactly. Honestly, more women have raised my blood pressure than the actual environment has. 😂

Karen Richardson3 said:This whole article is incredibly biased and just flat-out dishonest.
It feels like it was engineered specifically to stir up an outrage mob, baiting people into clicking and venting in the comments just so Bloomberg could rake in the ad revenue.

Unlike most other stories on the Nasdaq or similar sites... 😂
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#586 ·
Karen Richardson3 said:This whole article is incredibly biased and just flat-out dishonest.
It feels like it was engineered specifically to stir up an outrage mob, baiting people into clicking and venting in the comments just so Bloomberg could rake in the ad revenue.

Perhaps the piece is indeed "biased" or even false, but let’s look at the reality here. The fact remains that children who aren't being taught Catholic ideology in school are being discredited in a million different ways.
silentraven6 silentraven6 Regular
276 messages
joined Nov 2018
#587 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Perhaps the piece is indeed "biased" or even false, but let’s look at the reality here. The fact remains that children who aren't being taught Catholic ideology in school are being discredited in a million different ways.

Look, whatever my personal issues are with having religious education in public schools, my kid hasn't been sidelined or treated differently at all. I’ve definitely dealt with some pushback—recently even a direct comment from another parent telling me I’d have to enroll my child in religion class because "the winds are changing," and I even had some family pressure because we opted out. But honestly? My child hasn't felt any bit of that social stigma, and I’ve been watching everything very closely.

As far as the classroom environment goes, their teacher is actually a great example for everyone else. He gives them extra math help, they aren't just left to their own devices, and there’s zero negativity about it. Even the rest of the class was totally fine—except for right at the start when the other kids were asking me why he wasn't in religion class. I just told them straight up that he has different interests and that everyone is different. They took it perfectly well.
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#588 ·
I’ve been chiming in on this thread as someone who is an atheist, and my kid won't be signing up for any religious education classes.
I tend to step away from the conversation every once in a while because it feels like we just circle the same drain and end up wasting everyone's time.

The arguments I’ve thrown out—just like everyone else here—were basically along the lines of "religious ed doesn't belong under the roof of public schools," or "why are we teaching made-up stories alongside subjects that actually have a scientific foundation?" Plus, the whole idea that the US should be a strictly secular nation, and that the fact the government allows the Church into our school system is just proof of how backwards and overly religious our society has become.
When it came to the kids who skip those classes, the focus was usually on the lack of organization—like, what are they even supposed to do during that gap hour while everyone else is in class?

But honestly, despite being so deep in the debate and feeling so strongly about it, I realized I hadn't actually taken the time to look at how things work in other parts of the Western world or beyond.

Here’s a little something to look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_education

Basically, in most places (with the exception of France), some version of religious instruction or faith-based learning exists within the public school system.
That really puts a dent in the whole argument that America is this dark, clerical-fascist wasteland where priests are out to get kids.

Any journalist or activist who uses that kind of rhetoric either hasn't done their homework or is intentionally ignoring the fact that most secular, developed nations still include either specific denominational hours or broader religious studies that highlight the dominant faith.

So, after sitting with all this and thinking it through, I have to admit I'm changing my tune.

In fact, I’ll go as far as saying that naftali is actually right 😁

Matthew Young35 said:Perhaps the piece is indeed "biased" or even false, but let’s look at the reality here. The fact remains that children who aren't being taught Catholic ideology in school are being discredited in a million different ways.

I’m curious, though—how exactly is your child being discredited or discriminated against?
To me, this article looks like run-of-the-mill propaganda; it feels like it was written by a journalist sitting in an office just trying to figure out what would trigger an online flame war.
Honestly, I think religious education is just the second biggest "culture war" topic in the US, right after old-school political divides.

At the end of the day, if there is actual discrimination or bullying happening toward these kids, it's only because the people doing the discriminating are idiots who are just looking for an excuse. It seems to assume that these kids are being targeted because their parents belonged to the "other side" in previous generations.

In my own life, I haven't heard any stories like that from friends with older kids. My little one starts school next year and I won't be enrolling them in religion classes, so I'll let you guys know how it actually plays out.
silentraven6 silentraven6 Regular
276 messages
joined Nov 2018
#589 ·
Karen Richardson3, from what I’ve been reading, most people aren't actually against religion classes themselves. It wouldn't even be an issue if we had some kind of religious culture integrated into the curriculum, similar to how they handle things in Germany or other major countries. The real headache is leaving kids wandering the halls because the school fails to organize those hours as actual elective courses—especially since every other elective has already been moved out of the standard daily schedule.

On both sides of this debate, you’re always going to have the extremists—those who want to shut down every single Catholic institution, and then the ones who want to throw all the non-believers straight into hell. 🤣
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#590 ·
silentraven6 said:Karen Richardson3, from what I’ve been reading, most people aren't actually against religion classes themselves. It wouldn't even be an issue if we had some kind of religious culture integrated into the curriculum, similar to how they handle things in Germany or other major countries. The real headache is leaving kids wandering the halls because the school fails to organize those hours as actual elective courses—especially since every other elective has already been moved out of the standard daily schedule.

On both sides of this debate, you’re always going to have the extremists—those who want to shut down every single Catholic institution, and then the ones who want to throw all the non-believers straight into hell. 🤣

I mean, come on—look at the crowd of people coming over from the online version of the New York Times, just like us here, arguing that in a secular country like America, there’s no place for religion classes tucked away inside the regular school day.
I just scrolled through the last three pages, and that’s basically the whole argument.

I felt like I had to chime in because this line of reasoning is honestly pretty shaky, and it leads to this weird conclusion that our country is somehow backward just because religious studies exist in schools at all.
I can't wrap my head around why people who actually study this stuff—people who should know how things work globally—are spreading this kind of propaganda. Honestly, I can't tell if they're being malicious or if they're just completely clueless.

The thing is, in plenty of other developed countries, religious education or religious culture is actually mandatory, though they do allow students to choose ethics as an alternative.

One thing that hasn't changed my mind, though, is the idea that the government (not the Church or individual believers) is the one to blame for failing to provide a place for kids who don't attend those religious classes.

Back in my last post a month ago, I mentioned that the state really ought to ensure every school has a library that stays open throughout the entire school day, giving kids a place to go while they wait. I’m especially thinking about the younger kids here.

I don't have an answer for why this isn't being fixed, or why we still have kids waiting around in hallways (which, if I recall correctly, is actually against school regulations).

Because the real solution isn't cutting religious education out entirely; it's demanding that the government handle the logistics for the kids who aren't enrolled in it.
Why didn't the previous administration tackle this issue?
It feels like the ruling class benefits from keeping the problem alive—one side gets to complain, while the other side doesn't actually have a problem to begin with.
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#591 ·
I don't have any issue with teaching kids about various religions—call it religious studies or cultural history, whatever you want to label it. My problem isn't with the academic side; it's with the actual practice of religion and the attempt to indoctrinate children within the school system.
Who wants that? If people want to practice their faith, they can head to their churches, mosques, synagogues, or even those places where Satanists gather to do whatever it is they do.
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#592 ·
Karen Richardson3 said:I mean, come on—look at the crowd of people coming over from the online version of the New York Times, just like us here, arguing that in a secular country like America, there’s no place for religion classes tucked away inside the regular school day.
I just scrolled through the last three pages, and that’s basically the whole argument.

I felt like I had to chime in because this line of reasoning is honestly pretty shaky, and it leads to this weird conclusion that our country is somehow backward just because religious studies exist in schools at all.
I can't wrap my head around why people who actually study this stuff—people who should know how things work globally—are spreading this kind of propaganda. Honestly, I can't tell if they're being malicious or if they're just completely clueless.

The thing is, in plenty of other developed countries, religious education or religious culture is actually mandatory, though they do allow students to choose ethics as an alternative.

One thing that hasn't changed my mind, though, is the idea that the government (not the Church or individual believers) is the one to blame for failing to provide a place for kids who don't attend those religious classes.

Back in my last post a month ago, I mentioned that the state really ought to ensure every school has a library that stays open throughout the entire school day, giving kids a place to go while they wait. I’m especially thinking about the younger kids here.

I don't have an answer for why this isn't being fixed, or why we still have kids waiting around in hallways (which, if I recall correctly, is actually against school regulations).

Because the real solution isn't cutting religious education out entirely; it's demanding that the government handle the logistics for the kids who aren't enrolled in it.
Why didn't the previous administration tackle this issue?
It feels like the ruling class benefits from keeping the problem alive—one side gets to complain, while the other side doesn't actually have a problem to begin with.

Religious education and religious culture are absolutely not the same thing.
I would support a curriculum focused on studying the world's various faiths—even if there was a specific emphasis on Catholic traditions. However, I cannot get behind religious instruction itself.
Michelle Nelson4 Michelle Nelson4 Regular
544 messages
joined Jan 2024
#593 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Perhaps the piece is indeed "biased" or even false, but let’s look at the reality here. The fact remains that children who aren't being taught Catholic ideology in school are being discredited in a million different ways.

LOL, have you actually looked at any other subjects besides religion class? Every kid in school gets hit with a heavy dose of Catholic indoctrination regardless of whether they signed up for theology or not.
Personally, I think just reading the Republican Party platform during first grade is enough to realize we'll have more than plenty of time to discuss these topics later on, even if my child skips the religious lessons. I honestly believe this approach will lead to a much stronger foundation for my kid by the end of elementary school—they'll understand what faith preaches and why we don't necessarily subscribe to it, rather than just blindly accepting whatever was taught when they were little.😁
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#594 ·
Michelle Nelson4 said:LOL, have you actually looked at any other subjects besides religion class? Every kid in school gets hit with a heavy dose of Catholic indoctrination regardless of whether they signed up for theology or not.
Personally, I think just reading the Republican Party platform during first grade is enough to realize we'll have more than plenty of time to discuss these topics later on, even if my child skips the religious lessons. I honestly believe this approach will lead to a much stronger foundation for my kid by the end of elementary school—they'll understand what faith preaches and why we don't necessarily subscribe to it, rather than just blindly accepting whatever was taught when they were little.😁

I think you're right, but that’s beside the point for now.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#595 ·
Not really the point, but I'd honestly prefer if we could just move on from this topic 😁
Larry Walker24 Larry Walker24 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2022
#596 ·
In school religion classes and Sunday school, they don't cover other faiths. You might touch on Catholic orders within the Church or maybe some bits of Christian history, but that's about it. They definitely don't teach other religions.

If you want to learn about Islam—like how it started—you have to wait for History class. Same goes for Christian history; you get a tiny bit of that too.

As for the Bible, they just treat it like any other piece of literature in English class.
Susan James Susan James VeteranOP
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#597 ·
rowdypanther12 said:Not really the point, but I'd honestly prefer if we could just move on from this topic 😁

It’s not completely out of left field, either.

Think about how we celebrate various holidays through school programs or community events.
Like blessing bread,
holding a mass to kick off the school year,
the blessing of a gym,
or even blessing sports gear and equipment.

They weave it all in through literature, music, art, history, geography, or foreign language classes... you even see it on preschool worksheets where they sneak in a little religious touch. It just gets integrated seamlessly.

At the end of the day, we ALL observe Catholic holidays.
Those are our federal holidays.
(Personally, I’d much rather have Ash Wednesday off than Juneteenth! I could really use a break in February, whereas June feels like we already have too many days off, but hey, life happens.🥳 We really need to put some pressure on the new administration to make Ash Wednesday a public holiday so people can actually stay home and observe their fast in peace.)
Michelle Nelson4 Michelle Nelson4 Regular
544 messages
joined Jan 2024
#598 ·
Christmas Eve is that special time right before Christmas Day when we start getting the house ready. We decorate everything, send out warm greetings to our loved ones, bake plenty of treats, and even do those little traditions like sprouting wheat seeds. On Christmas Eve itself, we put up the tree, and then later that night, we head over to the local church for Midnight Mass. When Christmas morning finally arrives, the whole family gathers at home to celebrate the birth of baby Jesus, share heartfelt wishes, and exchange gifts.

Then there's Easter, which is arguably the most significant holiday in the Christian calendar. It’s how we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus. Much like the winter holidays, we decorate our homes and reach out to friends and family with cards. We have the fun tradition of dyeing eggs, too. On Easter, the family comes together at home, and we usually attend service in the morning. People often bring eggs, rolls, and bread to be blessed. It's a beautiful time for exchanging eggs and wishing one another a happy holiday.


Of course my kid asked if we were going to Midnight Mass, since the books say you go to church on Christmas 😵

I just love that unspoken sense of "everyone"—the idea that everyone goes to church together, everyone attends the blessings and the masses and the midnight services... 🙄
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#599 ·
Matthew Young35 said:I don't have any issue with teaching kids about various religions—call it religious studies or cultural history, whatever you want to label it. My problem isn't with the academic side; it's with the actual practice of religion and the attempt to indoctrinate children within the school system.
Who wants that? If people want to practice their faith, they can head to their churches, mosques, synagogues, or even those places where Satanists gather to do whatever it is they do.

Matthew Young35 said:Religious education and religious culture are absolutely not the same thing.
I would support a curriculum focused on studying the world's various faiths—even if there was a specific emphasis on Catholic traditions. However, I cannot get behind religious instruction itself.

I wasn't trying to say that "religious education" and "religious culture" are exactly the same thing; what I was really getting at is that in several other European Union nations—you know, those highly developed, secular places—they actually include religious studies or a dedicated religious culture course right in their school curriculums.
If you look at the rest of the European Union, it seems like they've integrated that stuff into the curriculum everywhere, but France is basically the lone holdout where you won't find it being taught in schools.

That’s all there is to it.

The whole argument that we’re some kind of backwards, clerical-fascist, or even "clerical-Taliban" nation just because right-wing groups managed to get churches into school buildings basically falls apart the moment you actually look at it.
Religion classes were basically kicked out of the school system overnight, which felt pretty aggressive if you ask me, but then they ended up being brought right back in because, honestly, that’s just how things work in most schools around the world.
Look, you have to realize that the vast majority of people across the globe are believers, and honestly, I think we just need to come to terms with the fact that the majority rule actually carries some weight here—especially since there isn't any kind of legal mandate or government coercion forcing anyone to sit through religious education classes.

If we’re basically forcing people to accept that there’s no other option—like when parents sign their kids up for religion classes just because there isn't actually an alternative program available—then you really have to look at the government as the one at fault here. It’s not on the Church, and it’s certainly not on the believers. If the state wants to mandate these classes, they have a responsibility to provide a legitimate substitute, because leaving kids to just hang out in a hallway isn't a real solution; you can't just leave children unsupervised in a school corridor and call it a day.

I honestly feel like all those advocacy groups are totally missing the mark here. Instead of wasting their energy trying to push for getting religious education out of public schools entirely—which, let's be real, isn't going to happen anytime soon—they should really be focusing on the actual logistical nightmare families are facing. Think about it: you've got schools where if a kid doesn't sign up for religion class, they aren't even given a supervised room to hang out in. It puts parents in this impossible bind where they end up enrolling their kids in religious studies just because they have no idea where their child is supposed to be during that hour. It’s a massive childcare gap disguised as a curriculum issue. Rather than fighting a losing battle over removing faith-based classes, these organizations ought to be pressuring the state to step up and provide actual solutions for supervision and student safety, regardless of what subject a kid is studying.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#600 ·
Who says Western countries are all that much better? Lol, I mean, abortion was banned in Ireland until just yesterday, and people there still swear by the Bible and stuff like that.

But yeah, I agree with you. Personally, I don't think religious education belongs in public schools, whether we're talking about the US or Poland or anywhere else.
I wouldn't mind having some kind of religious culture included—maybe even as a required subject—but only from fifth grade onwards.

That’s just my take on it, anyway. 😁 But looking at reality for a second, I get that we live in a melting pot and we aren't getting out of this for decades, so there's no way we're seeing widespread secularization or the constant accommodation of minorities and those kinds of things anytime soon.
We really need to look for practical solutions to real problems.
And that brings us back to what you said: asking the government to implement alternative programs or specific activity hours instead.

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