Religion classes in school - Megathread

shadowcrane91 said:At my kid's school, everyone takes religion class, so those issues just don't even come up

That’s exactly it—you've hit the nail on the head regarding why they push to make religion part of the standard school day: the goal is to ensure total participation.

When they fail to reach everyone, it creates these massive social and logistical headaches, and then the kids who don't participate are treated like the problem. It's much easier to manage if everyone is in the same boat, which is just a classic example of how the Vatican operates with such calculated subtlety.

shadowcrane91 said:At my kid's school, everyone takes religion class, so those issues just don't even come up

This is honestly one of the saddest things I've read on this thread.

I honestly don't get why parents should even care if these extra sessions are paid or not. That's really just a matter between the teachers and the principal. If anything, maybe this will finally push some educators to speak up against the total mess of cramming everything in whenever and wherever they feel like.
At our school, religious studies is always the first or last period, which is actually a win. The downside? Those early morning study sessions on days when religious studies is the first period. It just means kids are running wild through the hallways.
They were hanging out in the library today, which was great. Last year, the library was constantly closed, so they’d just be causing chaos in the halls. Then someone eventually kicked them out because apparently having a draft in the hallway would make them sick. So, they ended up hiding in the bathrooms. Hearing that gave me the chills, but hey, what can you do?

rowdypanther12 said:This is honestly one of the saddest things I've read on this thread.

Look, if parents didn't want this, they wouldn't be enrolling them in the first place.
So, personally? I don't find it sad at all.

Honestly, I just want to know if it’s worth saying thank you. If a woman does something out of genuine altruism, then I feel like I really should show my appreciation.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, if parents didn't want this, they wouldn't be enrolling them in the first place.
So, personally? I don't find it sad at all.

Of course you don't find it sad. 😉

shadowcrane91 said:Look, if parents didn't want this, they wouldn't be enrolling them in the first place.
So, personally? I don't find it sad at all.

You really think people would push for religious ed classes so hard that they'd want them scheduled during an after-school shift instead of during regular school hours?

shadowcrane91 said:Look, if parents didn't want this, they wouldn't be enrolling them in the first place.
So, personally? I don't find it sad at all.

When my little girl was starting first grade—she’s in second now—my husband and I debated whether to enroll her in religion class or not. We aren't exactly devout people; we aren't checking into a church every Sunday. If religion class wasn't part of the standard school curriculum—if most kids in the class weren't taking it (in her case, I think everyone does, but you can't know for sure until the kid actually starts)—we wouldn't have signed her up. And no, we wouldn't be driving her out to some local church just for that class.

We chose to enroll her simply because we didn't want her to feel isolated. Since she's still a kid, I figured it would bother her more if the teacher pulled her out of the room during religious studies and left her sitting somewhere else, alone. So, she stays in the classroom. And she actually likes it. It's mostly taught through stories, which she absolutely loves.
Once she grows out of it and makes her own choice, we won't sign her up anymore. But while the decision is mine to make, if I have to choose between my child being supervised in a classroom or wandering a hallway for two hours, I'm choosing the classroom.

Since I'm not exactly an expert on the subject matter, whenever she has questions, I just tell her to ask the teacher.
I suspect there are plenty of other parents who aren't strictly against religion classes (just like us), but if it weren't integrated into the school day, they wouldn't sign their kids up either.
They're just making sure their kid isn't left out.

James Alvarez2 said:You really think people would push for religious ed classes so hard that they'd want them scheduled during an after-school shift instead of during regular school hours?

Everyone knew from registration day that religion class was either going to be first thing in the morning or the very last period of the day...
That’s what we were told, anyway...
Bottom line is, if you didn't want to sign up, you didn't have to.

That’s not what I asked you.

And then there's the whole first period issue.
It's because some kids from the neighborhood can walk to school together, but others just can't. Maybe someone doesn't want to leave their kid home alone for an extra hour...

shadowcrane91 said:Everyone knew from registration day that religion class was either going to be first thing in the morning or the very last period of the day...
That’s what we were told, anyway...
Bottom line is, if you didn't want to sign up, you didn't have to.

Look, if this is an after-school program setup, then having religious studies as the first period is completely irrelevant. Why? Because working parents have to drop their kids off right when school starts just to make it to their jobs on time.

The reality is this: in an after-school scenario, a kid who is forced to be at school for that first period—even if they aren't attending the religious class—ends up just loitering in the hallway. It’s a logistical mess. For instance, maybe the school library is running afternoon hours, or perhaps the teacher doesn't start until the second period. So what happens? Does the kid just hang out in the hall? Are we supposed to leave a first-grader unsupervised? It's absurd.

My 8-year-old isn't even going.
To say I was shocked would be an understatement.
They’re heading to the local library with their teacher instead—doing stuff like drawing, meeting new people, chatting, reading, all that jazz.
Honestly? I’m more than happy with how this is playing out so far.

James Alvarez2 said:Did you just jump in on the last post or did you actually read the whole thread?

History in elementary school?
You gotta explain metaphors... that's literally all I'm talking about.

You're looking at kids watching cartoons; they've heard bits and pieces of some fairy tale here and there. A story about a woman being formed from a rib isn't exactly a hard concept for a child to wrap their head around. I know when I was a kid, I didn't ask too many questions about it.
Obviously, you don't dive into the gritty details; they aren't interested in that anyway.
You can explain anything to kids, regardless of their grade level. You just need to be a good storyteller, and their imagination will take care of the rest.
We don't expect a first grader to approach this with a critical eye, nor are they capable of it.

Sarah Hall53 said:If religious studies were lumped in with any other elective, she wouldn't even have this gap in her schedule to exploit.
And since she feels this huge moral obligation to watch over the kids who aren't staying for religious studies—which, by the way, she is NOT being paid for, and it's eating into her own personal time—she's decided to kill two birds with one stone. She uses that scheduling gap caused by the short religious studies block to cover her bases, and yeah... let's just tear her apart! Honestly, how awful is that?

If this were that, or if it were this... But it isn't!
The situation is what it is, but that doesn't mean a teacher can just pass the time however she wants.
It sounds to me like you're trying to fix one wrong with another.
The students in religious studies don't care where one, two, or five other kids are during their class time, and it's not their job to worry about it.
But should we strip away the opportunity for extra help just to make things "even"?

We don't need to crucify her, but her actions aren't exactly worth praising. She isn't paid to provide extra help only to the non-religious kids; she's paid to be available to EVERYONE interested. If I were a parent with a kid in religious studies who also happened to be a math whiz, I'd certainly want an explanation as to why she isn't holding extra sessions when they're supposed to happen (so my kid could attend), instead of doing it right in the middle of someone else's class!

And, yeah...
She is getting paid for it, obviously. She took a free period that she might have just wasted and used it to do something she's actually paid to do during a time that works for EVERYONE. The catch is that it doesn't work for her to wait until regular classes are over.
It looks like a win-win, but she'd get crushed by an auditor or a particularly fed-up parent.

Donna Taylor5 said:You're looking at kids watching cartoons; they've heard bits and pieces of some fairy tale here and there. A story about a woman being formed from a rib isn't exactly a hard concept for a child to wrap their head around. I know when I was a kid, I didn't ask too many questions about it.
Obviously, you don't dive into the gritty details; they aren't interested in that anyway.
You can explain anything to kids, regardless of their grade level. You just need to be a good storyteller, and their imagination will take care of the rest.
We don't expect a first grader to approach this with a critical eye, nor are they capable of it.

If this were that, or if it were this... But it isn't!
The situation is what it is, but that doesn't mean a teacher can just pass the time however she wants.
It sounds to me like you're trying to fix one wrong with another.
The students in religious studies don't care where one, two, or five other kids are during their class time, and it's not their job to worry about it.
But should we strip away the opportunity for extra help just to make things "even"?

We don't need to crucify her, but her actions aren't exactly worth praising. She isn't paid to provide extra help only to the non-religious kids; she's paid to be available to EVERYONE interested. If I were a parent with a kid in religious studies who also happened to be a math whiz, I'd certainly want an explanation as to why she isn't holding extra sessions when they're supposed to happen (so my kid could attend), instead of doing it right in the middle of someone else's class!

And, yeah...
She is getting paid for it, obviously. She took a free period that she might have just wasted and used it to do something she's actually paid to do during a time that works for EVERYONE. The catch is that it doesn't work for her to wait until regular classes are over.
It looks like a win-win, but she'd get crushed by an auditor or a particularly fed-up parent.

Actually, no, she isn't being paid for that. Not if you're referring specifically to that gap in her schedule.
Just like you pointed out earlier, she gets to decide whether to spend her downtime idling away or actually being productive.

She has every right to choose the idle route.

Now, if she chose to fill that gap by taking on extra hours, then sure, she’s getting paid.

But yeah, any school inspector would tear that decision apart without blinking an eye.

At the same time, an inspector can't force her to stop idling or forbid her from relaxing during her break, nor can they mandate that she cram students into a vacant period. When there's a hole in her schedule, she isn't even obligated to stay on campus; she could easily head out to grab a coffee.

wanderingbadger44 said:Actually, no, she isn't being paid for that. Not if you're referring specifically to that gap in her schedule.
Just like you pointed out earlier, she gets to decide whether to spend her downtime idling away or actually being productive.

She has every right to choose the idle route.

Now, if she chose to fill that gap by taking on extra hours, then sure, she’s getting paid.

But yeah, any school inspector would tear that decision apart without blinking an eye.

At the same time, an inspector can't force her to stop idling or forbid her from relaxing during her break, nor can they mandate that she cram students into a vacant period. When there's a hole in her schedule, she isn't even obligated to stay on campus; she could easily head out to grab a coffee.

That's exactly my point.
Extra sessions can't overlap with regular class hours. It has to be zero period or after school.
If a teacher handles her extra work during her own prep period instead of when it's actually scheduled, she's getting paid—not just in cash, but in time. Instead of waiting until the end of her shift to get things done, she squeezes it into her break and bills it as "extra duty." She gets home an hour or two early and doesn't give a damn!
In the official logbook she turns in at the end of the year, it probably shows she did the extra work during 6th or 7th period, even though she knocked it out way earlier during 3rd period.
Bottom line: don't pity her or praise her. The woman just figured out how to get home early while multitasking on the fly.
She's screwing over the kids in religious ed in the process, but hey, it's their fault for signing up, right?

So, is there actually a solution out there where everyone walks away happy?

Donna Taylor5 said:That's exactly my point.
Extra sessions can't overlap with regular class hours. It has to be zero period or after school.
If a teacher handles her extra work during her own prep period instead of when it's actually scheduled, she's getting paid—not just in cash, but in time. Instead of waiting until the end of her shift to get things done, she squeezes it into her break and bills it as "extra duty." She gets home an hour or two early and doesn't give a damn!
In the official logbook she turns in at the end of the year, it probably shows she did the extra work during 6th or 7th period, even though she knocked it out way earlier during 3rd period.
Bottom line: don't pity her or praise her. The woman just figured out how to get home early while multitasking on the fly.
She's screwing over the kids in religious ed in the process, but hey, it's their fault for signing up, right?

Everything you mentioned is spot on, except for that one specific point I was highlighting.

If they didn't have religious studies right in the middle of the class schedule, she’d be headed home much earlier.

So, it isn't really that she discovered some clever trick to extend her day; rather, the school uses that elective period as a way to essentially keep her on campus for free.

On top of that, there's this unspoken expectation that she'll look after the kids who aren't attending those classes—kids who can be quite difficult or even unkind when they choose to skip out instead of following the rest of the group.

At the end of the day, the responsibility really falls on those students and their parents.

rowdypanther12 said:So, is there actually a solution out there where everyone walks away happy?

Of course there is. It’s pretty simple: Vatican City should cover the cost of supervising the kids who aren't attending religious studies. After all, the school is already paying a religious instructor for that specific time slot.

Think of it like this: if a librarian or a teacher is stepping in to watch over students during a period meant for a religious instructor, they are essentially performing a duty that was already budgeted for. If that instructor is scheduled for a session with class 2B at 9:00 AM, then all those kids fall under their responsibility for that hour. Alternatively, you could just deduct the proportional amount from the instructor's paycheck based on how many kids skip the lesson, and use that extra money to compensate the staff members who are volunteering their time to supervise them.

Then again, you could always solve the whole headache by making religious studies an elective, just like any other subject, held outside of the standard school day. Go ahead and try suggesting that to the administration—I’d love to hear how that goes. 😁

🙂

Man, is there actually a realistic way to make everyone happy here? 😁

Are you kidding me?

I honestly feel for the kids enrolled in religious studies classes. It’s like we assume they lack any sense of discernment or critical thinking, right? Like their brains just don't work yet?

It always seems to boil down to this: if a kid doesn't take those classes, the parents are treated like outcasts who shouldn't even be spoken to. It's as if providing them with extra knowledge is somehow forbidden, and they should just be left to fend for themselves without any guidance at all.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of trying to fix one injustice by committing another, even if there were strict rules about supplemental education. How does that even work? You try to solve a problem by making things worse? That's just nonsense.

At the end of the day, parents should have the same freedom to choose between an extra math tutor and a religious studies class.