Religion classes in school - Megathread

William Bennett53 said:Even as an elective, the current setup isn't quite right. It ought to be an extracurricular activity offered on campus for those who actually want it. Why should someone who has no interest in religious studies—perhaps because they are an atheist or belong to a minority denomination that isn't large enough to warrant a dedicated program—be forced to sit through an ethics class instead? Why couldn't they choose to study trumpet, model building, advanced math, creative writing, or any of the other extracurriculars the school provides? Furthermore, why should a gradebook include a subject taught by someone who isn't even a standard employee of the school or the Department of Education—someone whose very position is secured by a Bishop and can be revoked at his whim?

I would happily suggest a course on world religions or something similar to my own child. However, I suspect organized religious groups would be the first ones to protest a curriculum that teaches children about the perspectives of other faiths independently.

I heard they're calling it ethics now....🤷
Plus, even standard religious ed classes touch on other beliefs... at least once you hit high school.

shadowcrane91 said:My bad... I must have totally missed your post...

Why though???

I already laid out my reasons for why I DON'T want religious education stripped from the curriculum...

And honestly, not a single practical believer has given me a solid reason why they actually want it gone.

Jeremy is getting a little tired of these "practicing" believers.

Can you explain what would actually happen if religion was just offered as an after-school elective? Aside from parents not having to worry about what Peter is doing during third period on Monday or fourth period on Wednesday?
It’s hilarious how "believing" parents claim it's a huge hassle to drive their kids to religious studies outside of school hours or to church, yet it’s no big deal to drop them off at soccer, ballet, or tutoring.
If it matters to you, why not just put it in the official school schedule?
If it doesn't matter, then why even bother attending?

Is there really a difference between your kids sitting in a classroom with 25 other kids just to fill a time slot, versus being with 8 kids whose parents actually live by the Church's teachings?

So you "read your prayers and storybooks"?
Did you even take religion classes through eighth grade? In high school?
Or did you just conveniently forget all the controversial topics?

You say "the Church doesn't support gay marriage."
The Church condemns sin, not the person. NEVER the person. A religion teacher needs to be able to explain why something is considered a sin and how to treat the individual involved.
Teach kids mercy (which is so relevant in this year of mercy), teach them how to coexist with people who don't think, believe, or act like them, and teach them to accept and value the diversity and "minorities" you're talking about.

But honestly, how many religion teachers actually teach like that?
I personally know a religion teacher who doesn't even believe in evolution. 🤦
The same guy who gave me a failing grade in middle school because I stuttered while reciting the seven deadly sins. And I stutter regardless. Genius guy, though—great teacher, great at prepping you for sacraments.

Matthew Young35 said:The idea that the people didn't identify as Catholic is simply false.
According to the census, 84% of the population was recorded that way.
Beyond the numbers, the entire census process was a total disaster. I personally know at least ten people who were listed as Catholic just because they weren't home when the enumerator showed up. They even listed me as Catholic. When I asked, "What the hell were you thinking?" the response was basically, "Well, you were baptized, so what else would you be?"

I actually worked on the census. If I had listed everyone who said, "Eh... just write down Catholic, whatever," I guarantee Catholics would have dropped below 50%.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, I didn't enroll my kids just to hunt for easy grades...
Honestly, it never even crossed my mind (but those are exactly the kind of messed-up motivations I'm talking about)

In my case, I actually had to show up for religion class, and absolutely nobody in my class ever skipped out to go get coffee during that time. 🤷

That "free period" thing only applies to the kids who *didn't* sign up for the class...

But again, don't blame the subject matter itself....
As long as there's a massive crowd of parents demanding their kids get religious instruction during school hours, it's going to stay on the curriculum....
And as long as 95% of parents force their kids into it, it's not getting scrapped just because of that other 5% (no matter what the actual reasons are for that 95%)

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Why don't you give a damn about why parents are signing them up in the first place?
And if you actually did care, why isn't that 95% figure freaking you out?

I don't want my kid stuck in religion class with 15 other kids who don't even want to be there. I don't want him sitting through lessons from some professor who only got the job because it was an easy way in. And I definitely don't want him in class while his buddy is stuck wandering around the library, the hallway, or the cafeteria trying to find something to do.

But hey, I *do* want him to take religion class. After morning sessions, he and his friend head off—one to religion, the other to extra geography tutoring...

In my experience here in the States, we aren't looking at a tiny 5% of first graders opting out of religious education; it’s closer to 30%. It’s actually quite significant when you think about it. If you look at four different first-grade classes, you could easily consolidate them into one single group where nobody attends those lessons. But, of course, that would leave some students without two hours of scheduled class time... and we all know whose interests really take priority when it comes to our school system. So, instead of making any real changes, they just let everyone have a two-hour gap in their schedule twice a week.

Trying to juggle class schedules with childcare and religious ed is a total nightmare when everything overlaps.
Honestly, if we just cut the religious studies out of the mix, we wouldn't have this headache... 😬

James Alvarez2 said:Trying to juggle class schedules with childcare and religious ed is a total nightmare when everything overlaps.
Honestly, if we just cut the religious studies out of the mix, we wouldn't have this headache... 😬

Well, looking at the situation,
1) Every single grade level was enrolled in the after-school program last year.
2) This year, they’re still all in the program, but since there’s one less teacher available for supervision, they’ll be sending "delegations" from one class over to the other three groups.

I wouldn't say the after-school factor was the dealbreaker here.
By the way, everyone has English as their primary language.
Everyone is on the morning shift.
They all use the same school building.
No one has any special elective subjects that would complicate the master schedule.
And honestly, back during enrollment, it was already clear who was signed up for religion and who wasn't.
...

I'm not talking about your kids' school specifically, just speaking generally here.
A lot of schools have this split where one class doesn't do after-school care and the others do. Adding another variable to the mix just makes scheduling a total nightmare.
The situation at your place sounds even more ridiculous if everyone stays late and takes the same language, yet the religion classes are all over the place...

Michelle Nelson4 said:In my experience here in the States, we aren't looking at a tiny 5% of first graders opting out of religious education; it’s closer to 30%. It’s actually quite significant when you think about it. If you look at four different first-grade classes, you could easily consolidate them into one single group where nobody attends those lessons. But, of course, that would leave some students without two hours of scheduled class time... and we all know whose interests really take priority when it comes to our school system. So, instead of making any real changes, they just let everyone have a two-hour gap in their schedule twice a week.

True, but do you know how they actually justify keeping those schedules full? (It's similar to what you mentioned regarding variables, even when dealing with things like dual language programs or residency status):
a) To prevent any kind of discrimination against the kids. They argue it's easier to prevent teasing if everyone stays together rather than having one classroom feel "different." (Personally, I think it works the other way around, but hey, who am I to say?)
b) Which teacher is going to want the "non-religious" class? Most would prefer a standard schedule without those awkward gaps in the day.
c) Parents often request a specific teacher—maybe someone their child liked back in preschool—so the administration tries to accommodate that. Though from what I've seen, most parents don't have a preference unless they already know the teacher.
d) What happens if a student changes their mind in second grade and wants to join the religious studies class? Or if they decide they don't want to attend anymore? How does the teacher handle that shift?

There are all these different "justifications," but honestly, the only real solution is to offer these programs outside of the regular school hours.

On a side note, regarding how the actual curriculum is taught, I think a huge part of it (aside from the syllabus itself) depends on the instructor's personality and teaching style.
I'm sure there are some wonderful teachers out there. And I'm sure there are some terrible ones too.
Just like any other subject in the American school system.

Listen, folks,
my kid is in 8th grade at this middle school, and frankly, the whole setup is a joke. They’ve got four different religion teachers on staff, yet they’ve got some guy who studied logistics teaching math, and the physics teacher doesn't even have a formal degree listed next to his name. It's a mess. Anyway, there’s a mass being held at the school this Sunday, and the religion teacher told the kids they'd see them there. I'm assuming attendance is mandatory. Look, I’m a believer, but faith belongs in a church, not forced in a classroom. Religious studies in school should be about learning the history of various faiths—giving kids a broad perspective—not just drilling one specific doctrine down their throats. You can't force someone to believe anything through coercion. And get this: because of how they prioritize these elective religious classes, computer science—which is also an elective—is getting pushed out of the regular schedule. The kids either have to show up for zero period or stay late after school. In this day and age, you can't survive without tech skills, yet here they are, stuck in a loop repeating the same religious lessons over and over. To make matters worse, the kids were supposed to go to the local parish for sacraments, and the priest was actually threatening them, saying they wouldn't get communion, or their confirmation, or even get married one day if they didn't show up to every single mass. It's ridiculous.

Forget all this debate about whether religion should be taught in schools—I think Jesus would probably be bored by it anyway. What I’m actually curious about is seeing how schools handle the logistics for kids who don't attend those classes once the discussion settles down.

Word on the street at our school is they’ve officially decided the books are just gonna sit in the library.
Got a parent-teacher meeting tomorrow, so I better bring my A-game and act like I actually have it together.
Yesterday, the whole group got handed their books, and anyone not signed up for religion class was supposed to just pull them out and leave them on the bench.
Pretty sure there's only three of us left.

rowdypanther12 said:Forget all this debate about whether religion should be taught in schools—I think Jesus would probably be bored by it anyway. What I’m actually curious about is seeing how schools handle the logistics for kids who don't attend those classes once the discussion settles down.

I’m going to find out today if my teacher is actually going to follow through on her offer to give us some extra math tutoring. 😁

I went to elementary school about 15 years ago. Back then, they offered religion classes, and if you didn't attend, the curriculum was incredibly basic. Religion class was always scheduled as either the first or the last period of the day, so those who opted out just left early or showed up late.

Don't get why they don't do that anymore. :/

Kyle Rogers9 said:I went to elementary school about 15 years ago. Back then, they offered religion classes, and if you didn't attend, the curriculum was incredibly basic. Religion class was always scheduled as either the first or the last period of the day, so those who opted out just left early or showed up late.

Don't get why they don't do that anymore. :/

It’s simple math. There were likely fewer classes back then. Statistically speaking, you can't schedule religious studies for every single class during just the first or last periods unless the total number of classes is actually less than the combined number of available first and last slots.

nimblelynx7 said:It’s simple math. There were likely fewer classes back then. Statistically speaking, you can't schedule religious studies for every single class during just the first or last periods unless the total number of classes is actually less than the combined number of available first and last slots.

I'm not so sure about that.😁 They used to have five sections per grade; now they barely manage two.😁

I do know that one year they moved the schedule to the middle of the day. Parents complained because their kids were usually stuck in the library during those times, so they switched it back.

So, it turns out this isn't an objective issue after all. 😁

(Someone is rigging the schedule to suit their own interests.)

I was just looking over my niece's elementary school schedule today. She's in first grade and stays for after-school care. One day they have religion class first thing in the morning, and on another day, it's their last period of the day.

In our case, the books were handed out later, and the kids went to the library with their teacher 👍 there are 5 of them
Since it's after-school care, it doesn't really matter what time it is

My kid is in second grade now, and there are 23 students in his class. Five of them don't attend the religious education sessions. While those kids are in class, they hang out with the teacher in a breakout room or the library. Today, they just stayed in their regular classroom. The teacher spends the time working with them, chatting, or letting them draw and play. My son is actually loving it because his best friend isn't in the religious studies group either, so they get to hang out together.

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Wait, are you guys actually aware that the teacher isn't even getting paid for that period? 😉

Yeah, honestly, if it wasn't for my company, I wouldn't even be considering this option.
I’m planning on thanking her, though it feels like the school is actually the one who should be thanking me for saving them from all my constant emails and threats to contact the Department of Education.😂