Religion classes in school - Megathread

Tyler Ruiz502 said:My bad. I probably could have been more concise. Honestly, whether or not we actually send her depends entirely on how we answer a few things first.

Why are we even stuck in this dilemma? Let her go, see for herself, hear the lessons, and then decide if she wants to believe in any of it or not. Plus—and this is a big "plus"—it keeps her from buzzing around the hallway complaining about it (though that really depends on how many other kids are uninterested in religion class and what kind of alternative they offer). It’s not like she’s going to sit there listening to Buddhism or something.
If being enrolled means she has to commit to a bunch of parish activities—you know, Mass, prayers, joining the choir... that's a hard pass for me. I honestly have no idea how much the classroom religious education actually ties into real-world practice.
But, if it’s all just coloring books and Bible stories during school hours? Then I’m totally fine with it.
The main thing is, if I notice my kid starting to act differently or if she starts obsessing over some weird religious fears, I want to have the option to pull the plug immediately.

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You can't unenroll during the school year (though apparently, you can sign up mid-year).
It is linked to practicing the faith.
Think of it this way: just like an elementary teacher might give homework to practice writing letters, learning street names in the neighborhood, or practicing catching a ball, a religious studies teacher can assign things related to the church (like prayer, visiting different parishes, or attending mass).
And based on that level of involvement outside of class, a child might end up with a lower grade if they haven't done those things or can't participate on equal footing with the kids who are active practitioners.
From what I've seen with kids in the early grades, they often come home wanting to pray at night or asking their grandparents if they're going to church on Sunday, simply because it's new and fun, or because they want to be good students in all their classes, including religious studies.

Regarding the idea that the child should decide for themselves whether to believe, that’s my goal too, but I think they should start tackling that after high school graduation.
I'm honestly too tired right now to go into a deep dive on childhood developmental stages, but just like Harry Potter heads off to Hogwarts after his 11th birthday, I feel like our kids should only really engage with religious studies at that stage of maturity.
Anything before that feels like indoctrination where the child isn't making an independent choice.

Though, from what I observe in real life and here on the forums, for most kids, Jesus is basically on the same level as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy—mostly just someone who brings gifts.
So maybe early religious education isn't such a harmful influence on non-believers.🤣
It becomes harmful to believers when they realize the gifts are actually coming from their parents.
Then, suddenly, their whole faith gets a little shaken by human deception.

Tyler Ruiz502 said:My bad. I probably could have been more concise. Honestly, whether or not we actually send her depends entirely on how we answer a few things first.

Why are we even stuck in this dilemma? Let her go, see for herself, hear the lessons, and then decide if she wants to believe in any of it or not. Plus—and this is a big "plus"—it keeps her from buzzing around the hallway complaining about it (though that really depends on how many other kids are uninterested in religion class and what kind of alternative they offer). It’s not like she’s going to sit there listening to Buddhism or something.
If being enrolled means she has to commit to a bunch of parish activities—you know, Mass, prayers, joining the choir... that's a hard pass for me. I honestly have no idea how much the classroom religious education actually ties into real-world practice.
But, if it’s all just coloring books and Bible stories during school hours? Then I’m totally fine with it.
The main thing is, if I notice my kid starting to act differently or if she starts obsessing over some weird religious fears, I want to have the option to pull the plug immediately.

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She’ll make up her own mind about believing or not, even without having religious studies classes at school. She’ll find her own reasons without being pressured or indoctrinated, especially since they're already being flooded with information about religion every single day anyway...

They aren't going to be wandering the hallways looking for something to do. They aren't even my kids, but when they moved up to the higher grades, they realized how nice it is to just head home during those religious studies periods—it's only a couple of blocks from the school. Or maybe they'll use the time to read a bit, finish some homework, or just hang out...

Raymond Jones8 said:Katjes
From what I can gather, you don't just get to opt out of religious ed halfway through the school year just because you aren't feeling the teacher's vibe or how they're running things, I guess.
I'm not entirely sure if you actually want your kid to go through with the sacraments or not? Usually, there's this unspoken rule—or maybe an explicit one—that you have to show up for Mass if you're serious about getting those sacraments, right?

Look, I get that you need to show up to Mass and be baptized. But I don't want that. Or rather, I just don't care.

Susan James said:You can't unenroll during the school year (though apparently, you can sign up mid-year).
It is linked to practicing the faith.
Think of it this way: just like an elementary teacher might give homework to practice writing letters, learning street names in the neighborhood, or practicing catching a ball, a religious studies teacher can assign things related to the church (like prayer, visiting different parishes, or attending mass).
And based on that level of involvement outside of class, a child might end up with a lower grade if they haven't done those things or can't participate on equal footing with the kids who are active practitioners.
From what I've seen with kids in the early grades, they often come home wanting to pray at night or asking their grandparents if they're going to church on Sunday, simply because it's new and fun, or because they want to be good students in all their classes, including religious studies.

Regarding the idea that the child should decide for themselves whether to believe, that’s my goal too, but I think they should start tackling that after high school graduation.
I'm honestly too tired right now to go into a deep dive on childhood developmental stages, but just like Harry Potter heads off to Hogwarts after his 11th birthday, I feel like our kids should only really engage with religious studies at that stage of maturity.
Anything before that feels like indoctrination where the child isn't making an independent choice.

Though, from what I observe in real life and here on the forums, for most kids, Jesus is basically on the same level as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy—mostly just someone who brings gifts.
So maybe early religious education isn't such a harmful influence on non-believers.🤣
It becomes harmful to believers when they realize the gifts are actually coming from their parents.
Then, suddenly, their whole faith gets a little shaken by human deception.

I agree that little kids don't really grasp the point of it all.

By the time I was 11 or 13, I had definitely developed the stance that God isn't real and I don't believe. The stories just didn't hold water for me. And I still remember my impressions from religious ed classes back in elementary school—even first grade. I can still see the first three pages of my coloring book. My impression back then was... honestly, just pure "WTF" because of the teacher, his stories, and how he went about teaching everything.😁

Then came the phase of more intense thinking, the fears, and those endless logical loops: like, "Am I going to burn in hell because I don't believe in God?" But then, "Wait, if there is no hell, then there's no danger." Then, "But what if there *is* a hell and I'm wrong? Oh my God, please forgive me, I didn't mean it! It was just a passing thought!"

God, and I even remember the paranoia that I might become a private individual—which I really didn't want to be. Private people and priests just suddenly feel "the call," apparently. According to their logic, they don't even choose it; God chooses it for them. So, I used to pray to God not to call me. Just ridiculous nonsense, really.

I honestly don't know if I would put a child through an experience like that. 😬

At first, when they were in first grade, I thought maybe we'd try it—assuming it wasn't an issue that we aren't believers, don't go to church, and aren't baptized—just to see what we were dealing with.

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Between what my teachers taught me and seeing how actual people live their faith in the real world... the answer is a hard NO. 😁

Without even getting into why you’d consider enrolling your child in religious education, everything you’ve described makes me think that signing them up might just open a massive can of worms.
Between attending Mass, praying for help with schoolwork, and having to explain to your kid why what they're being taught in class differs from how things actually work in the real world—not to mention if the teacher turns out to be a total loose cannon—you could be looking at a whole lot of unnecessary complications.

But isn't the biggest point just that they won't stand out or be different from the crowd? Plus, if they're flying solo, who knows where all that extra free time actually goes? 🤔 I’m talking about the general arguments here, not specifically what Tyler Ruiz502 said.

rowdypanther12 said:Without even getting into why you’d consider enrolling your child in religious education, everything you’ve described makes me think that signing them up might just open a massive can of worms.
Between attending Mass, praying for help with schoolwork, and having to explain to your kid why what they're being taught in class differs from how things actually work in the real world—not to mention if the teacher turns out to be a total loose cannon—you could be looking at a whole lot of unnecessary complications.

Honestly, I see that as a total plus—it’s an opportunity for critical thinking. My own experience with doubt was different because I didn't have parental support. I wasn't allowed to "blaspheme" by actually voicing my doubts about whether God even exists. I just had to sit there with my little kid brain, spinning in circles because something clearly didn't add up.

I think it's better to send them to religion class so they don't feel like they're missing out on something. 😬
Plus, it’ll definitely help her form her own opinion in a few years.

Regarding what Robert Rodriguez9 said—about her not standing out or being too loud about it—I highly doubt she'll be the only one.
From what I've gathered, there are plenty of unbaptized kids around, at least 3 or 4 in the group.

There are definitely families and individuals where the only reason they enroll their kids is so they don't stick out like a sore thumb.

Some people even do the baptism thing just for the sake of it, not because it actually means anything to them. To me, it's even more of a mess when people say that openly to a priest. 😬

It's possible we won't enroll her at all. If so, no big deal.

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I don't know, I guess it really depends on how you feel about what they actually teach there.
In my opinion, movie ratings like PG, 16, or R exist for a reason—not every idea is appropriate for little kids to be exposed to.
Honestly, I can't really help you much since the idea of enrolling my kid in religious education never even crossed my mind.
Well, I did think about that whole separation thing for a few months, but then I realized I don't want to teach my child to just force themselves to fit in, and I don't want to set an example of just bowing down to pressure.

Basically, my spouse and I have never stepped foot in a church; my partner was only baptized to please their grandmother, and I wasn't even baptized. We didn't have a church wedding either, so the whole idea of signing our daughter up for religious ed feels pretty crazy to me, even if I don't think the classes are inherently bad for kids.
Religious education isn't some general subject about faith; it's specifically designed for believers.

Tyler Ruiz502 said:Look, I get that you need to show up to Mass and be baptized. But I don't want that. Or rather, I just don't care.

I agree that little kids don't really grasp the point of it all.

By the time I was 11 or 13, I had definitely developed the stance that God isn't real and I don't believe. The stories just didn't hold water for me. And I still remember my impressions from religious ed classes back in elementary school—even first grade. I can still see the first three pages of my coloring book. My impression back then was... honestly, just pure "WTF" because of the teacher, his stories, and how he went about teaching everything.😁

Then came the phase of more intense thinking, the fears, and those endless logical loops: like, "Am I going to burn in hell because I don't believe in God?" But then, "Wait, if there is no hell, then there's no danger." Then, "But what if there *is* a hell and I'm wrong? Oh my God, please forgive me, I didn't mean it! It was just a passing thought!"

God, and I even remember the paranoia that I might become a private individual—which I really didn't want to be. Private people and priests just suddenly feel "the call," apparently. According to their logic, they don't even choose it; God chooses it for them. So, I used to pray to God not to call me. Just ridiculous nonsense, really.

I honestly don't know if I would put a child through an experience like that. 😬

At first, when they were in first grade, I thought maybe we'd try it—assuming it wasn't an issue that we aren't believers, don't go to church, and aren't baptized—just to see what we were dealing with.

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A very devout believer actually cleared up this exact dilemma for me quite beautifully about 35 years ago...

He put it this way: "Look, from an atheist's perspective, life is actually much more straightforward. If you ever find yourself standing before God, you can always just say, 'Oops, my mistake.' And if you lived a decent, honorable life, God will likely forgive you; He won't punish you just because you hadn't realized He existed. On the other hand, I'm in a much tougher spot. As a believer, if I fail to follow His laws or treat people right while claiming to believe in Him, I'm a hypocrite who deserves judgment because I wasn't living true to the path I chose and preach to others. Unlike you, I really have to watch my step, and that isn't easy at all..."

Well, now... 🤔

caregiver said:I am strictly against teaching any specific religion in schools or preschools. My reasoning is simple: kids haven't even hit puberty yet, so they aren't capable of processing concepts like God, faith, or the Church with any kind of healthy, rational logic. A child can't truly grasp the essence of faith; they just learn the motions or the vocabulary associated with it. Regardless, I feel that religious education belongs at home or within the church, not in our public classrooms and daycares.

I recently dug through my old archives and found my childhood prayer book from elementary school. Reading it again after 15 years was honestly quite a shocker.
Right at the beginning, under a section titled MY GOOD RESOLUTIONS—which, interestingly, ranked higher than the instruction to listen to parents in all good things (I was actually surprised it didn't say "listen to parents unconditionally")—the following were listed:

never skip a day of prayer
never miss Sunday Mass or a holy day
go to confession as often as possible
never skip religion class.

It’s actually pretty terrifying when you realize this is what children are reading.
The very last item mentioned was to "listen to one's conscience" (which, in my opinion, should have been number one!), but nestled among all those other resolutions was this one:

THINK UPON DEATH AND GOD'S JUDGMENT.

Why on earth should a child be contemplating death (or any heavy existential dread) at such a young age?

According to the next part of the prayer book, a child is expected to:

IN THE MORNING—say morning prayers, the Angelus, and pray before and after breakfast.

IN THE AFTERNOON—say the Angelus, and pray before and after lunch.

IN THE EVENING—say the Angelus, pray before and after dinner, and say evening prayers before bed...

AND AS NEEDED—when facing temptation, if you've sinned, during a moment of mortal sin, or even just when you hear someone swear. There are even "arrow prayers" that we supposedly "shoot toward heaven like little arrows of love."

And we haven't even counted the Rosaries, the Masses, the Stations of the Cross, confessions, devotions to Mother Mary or the Sacred Heart, or all those prayers said while staring at various religious icons...

Not to mention some of the commentary inside, like PRAYERS FOR THE DEPARTED (which feels totally pointless), or constant reminders that your parents are merely "earthly parents" and that you must never forget your supreme obedience to your heavenly ones....

Is any of this really necessary?

And one more thing. Is it really part of the faith to differentiate between friends in preschool? I remember back during Christmas time in daycare, they used to make cards for the kids. Most got cards with a Christmas tree, but one little girl whose parents were Jehovah's Witnesses received a card with a little house in the snow instead. Honestly, it's just silly because people are so uninformed! The decorated tree is a relatively modern tradition and isn't even tied to religious doctrine—it's just a seasonal custom. Kids didn't necessarily understand the theology, but they definitely noticed they were being treated differently. It's just like how kids in school can see who attends religion class and who doesn't.
Is all of this really required???

Good grief!

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rowdypanther12 said:I don't know, I guess it really depends on how you feel about what they actually teach there.
In my opinion, movie ratings like PG, 16, or R exist for a reason—not every idea is appropriate for little kids to be exposed to.
Honestly, I can't really help you much since the idea of enrolling my kid in religious education never even crossed my mind.
Well, I did think about that whole separation thing for a few months, but then I realized I don't want to teach my child to just force themselves to fit in, and I don't want to set an example of just bowing down to pressure.

Basically, my spouse and I have never stepped foot in a church; my partner was only baptized to please their grandmother, and I wasn't even baptized. We didn't have a church wedding either, so the whole idea of signing our daughter up for religious ed feels pretty crazy to me, even if I don't think the classes are inherently bad for kids.
Religious education isn't some general subject about faith; it's specifically designed for believers.

1. Well, I honestly have no clue what the actual curriculum covers. That’s why I was asking for the syllabus—I need to see if any of it hits a nerve or if it's stuff I just can't stomach beforehand.

2. Alright, based on everything I've dug up so far, it sounds like you're right. It's a course for believers.

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Well, you’ve definitely had enough of that. If you scroll back through this thread and look at the articles from the last few years 😁 😁
, you'll see plenty. You can probably find the curriculum online too; I remember digging around for something similar a few years back.

Honestly, nobody actually believes in God. I mean, deep down, even the most devout people know it’s all just nonsense.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens twenty or thirty years from now, once the majority of the population has been through the whole school-system brainwashing process.

This feels similar to when religious people claim atheists don't exist because everyone believes in something 😁

Tyler Ruiz502 said:1. Well, I honestly have no clue what the actual curriculum covers. That’s why I was asking for the syllabus—I need to see if any of it hits a nerve or if it's stuff I just can't stomach beforehand.

2. Alright, based on everything I've dug up so far, it sounds like you're right. It's a course for believers.

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The topics covered during the first grade essentially boil down to the simple joy of existence, the concept of love, embracing all of creation, and learning about basic holidays and prayers... There is quite a bit of singing and plenty of drawing involved, too. For the most part, that covers it...
Inquiry and questioning are actually encouraged and viewed quite positively here...

I. OUR RELIGIOUS ENCOUNTERS - 3 hours
1. I have my own name and my own place
2. We are all worthy of respect

II. DISCOVERING SIGNS OF GOD'S GOODNESS - 8 hours
1. Heaven and earth sing to God
2. The wonderful world of God
3. God, You created people so wonderfully
4. People did not listen to God

III. WE ARE CONNECTED TO GOD - 7 hours
1. Jesus calls people
2. Jesus reveals: God is our good Father
3. We are thankful to God for bread and the fruits of the earth
4. Little missionaries

IV. REMEMBERING SAINTS AND THE DECEASED - 4 hours
1. Plants and animals disappear, and people pass away
2. Saints are friends of God and ours
3. Remembering those who have passed

V. TOWARD JESUS'S BIRTH - 10 hours
1. Advent - a time to prepare for Christmas
2. Celebrating Saint Nicholas
3. Mary - Jesus's mother
4. Christmas - the feast of Jesus's birth
5. Shepherds rejoice at Jesus's birth

VI. JESUS MEETS PEOPLE - 7 hours
1. Jesus does good to everyone
2. Jesus cares for all people
3. Jesus loves children especially
4. Jesus teaches us how to pray

VII. THE JOY OF FORGIVENESS AND LOVE - 6 hours
1. We rejoice in life
2. Why are we sometimes sad?
3. Why do we misunderstand each other and fight?
4. Signs of forgiveness and reconciliation
5. Jesus calls us to forgive

VIII. TOWARD EASTER
1. Preparing for Easter
2. Celebrating Easter soon
3. Jesus's suffering and death
4. Jesus lives - He has risen
5. Celebrating Easter with family, at school, and in the parish
6. Jesus returns to the Father and stays with us
7. Living in joy and love

IX. WE ARE ALWAYS JOYFUL TOGETHER - 11 hours
1. I am a follower of Jesus
2. Encounters of Jesus's followers
3. Mary is our Mother
4. To Mother on Mother's Day
5. Celebrating school holidays
6. Staying connected

Tyler Ruiz502 said:1. Well, I honestly have no clue what the actual curriculum covers. That’s why I was asking for the syllabus—I need to see if any of it hits a nerve or if it's stuff I just can't stomach beforehand.

2. Alright, based on everything I've dug up so far, it sounds like you're right. It's a course for believers.

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This subject is mandatory only for believers who intend to receive the sacraments... Otherwise, there is absolutely no way to link religious education to actual faith practice—unless, of course, you don't want your child to receive the sacraments. The teacher at school doesn't check or grade anyone's religious practice in any way, aside from offering encouragement through words, naturally... "Go to church..." "Pray..." But whether a child actually follows through or not has absolutely nothing to do with the religious curriculum itself, and certainly has no bearing on their grades...

Nancy Kelly31 said:The topics covered during the first grade essentially boil down to the simple joy of existence, the concept of love, embracing all of creation, and learning about basic holidays and prayers... There is quite a bit of singing and plenty of drawing involved, too. For the most part, that covers it...
Inquiry and questioning are actually encouraged and viewed quite positively here...

I. OUR RELIGIOUS ENCOUNTERS - 3 hours
1. I have my own name and my own place
2. We are all worthy of respect

II. DISCOVERING SIGNS OF GOD'S GOODNESS - 8 hours
1. Heaven and earth sing to God
2. The wonderful world of God
3. God, You created people so wonderfully
4. People did not listen to God

III. WE ARE CONNECTED TO GOD - 7 hours
1. Jesus calls people
2. Jesus reveals: God is our good Father
3. We are thankful to God for bread and the fruits of the earth
4. Little missionaries

IV. REMEMBERING SAINTS AND THE DECEASED - 4 hours
1. Plants and animals disappear, and people pass away
2. Saints are friends of God and ours
3. Remembering those who have passed

V. TOWARD JESUS'S BIRTH - 10 hours
1. Advent - a time to prepare for Christmas
2. Celebrating Saint Nicholas
3. Mary - Jesus's mother
4. Christmas - the feast of Jesus's birth
5. Shepherds rejoice at Jesus's birth

VI. JESUS MEETS PEOPLE - 7 hours
1. Jesus does good to everyone
2. Jesus cares for all people
3. Jesus loves children especially
4. Jesus teaches us how to pray

VII. THE JOY OF FORGIVENESS AND LOVE - 6 hours
1. We rejoice in life
2. Why are we sometimes sad?
3. Why do we misunderstand each other and fight?
4. Signs of forgiveness and reconciliation
5. Jesus calls us to forgive

VIII. TOWARD EASTER
1. Preparing for Easter
2. Celebrating Easter soon
3. Jesus's suffering and death
4. Jesus lives - He has risen
5. Celebrating Easter with family, at school, and in the parish
6. Jesus returns to the Father and stays with us
7. Living in joy and love

IX. WE ARE ALWAYS JOYFUL TOGETHER - 11 hours
1. I am a follower of Jesus
2. Encounters of Jesus's followers
3. Mary is our Mother
4. To Mother on Mother's Day
5. Celebrating school holidays
6. Staying connected

This subject is mandatory only for believers who intend to receive the sacraments... Otherwise, there is absolutely no way to link religious education to actual faith practice—unless, of course, you don't want your child to receive the sacraments. The teacher at school doesn't check or grade anyone's religious practice in any way, aside from offering encouragement through words, naturally... "Go to church..." "Pray..." But whether a child actually follows through or not has absolutely nothing to do with the religious curriculum itself, and certainly has no bearing on their grades...

Thanks! Honestly, it all sounds fine to me and I don't have any issues with it. Except, that whole section about death... you know, the crucifixion stuff. It's pretty grim. How do kids even process that?

My husband says he doesn't have any bad memories from his own schooling—claims he didn't experience anything negative or learn anything traumatic. Personally, though, I had this local priest back in my day who thought he had the right to whack us with a wooden stick. Not a single ounce of pedagogy in him. Zero actual religious teaching expertise.

Besides, even in preschool, they aren't immune to those Christmas songs that mention Jesus, the manger, or the Savior. Sometimes they say angels are in heaven, and that they're like little children watching over us and seeing everything. Well, what do they eat up there? And how do they stay warm in those tiny little dresses?
Basically, you can't escape Catholics, church events, little jingles, theories, or biblical motifs... 🕺

In the first grade, as far as I can tell, the curriculum places a heavy emphasis on the themes of suffering and mortality... There is much discussion regarding the prayer at Gethsemane—specifically about obedience to one's parents, that sentiment of "Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will"—as well as the betrayal by a friend, which serves as a lesson on our own relationships with friends, the unfairness of a trial where Pilate feared being reported to the Emperor, reflecting how children interact through tattling and grievances... And then, there is simply the reality of the matter: Jesus died, just as plants and animals eventually pass away... Naturally, the depth of questioning and scrutiny will depend entirely on the individual child's curiosity...

I honestly just don't wrap my head around how someone can claim to be an atheist who carries baggage from religious education, yet their first instinct isn't to simply opt their child out. It seems so logical to decide right away, rather than waiting until they see just how much pressure there is to conform before reconsidering. During our first hour today, when the question came up about how many kids weren't attending religious classes, I couldn't help but lie and say we didn't know—mostly because I wanted to spend that time reassuring everyone that it’s not too late to change our minds if we didn't check the box for religious studies during enrollment.

And of course, you have those religious instructors writing posts about how everything is just wonderful, full of flowers and butterflies; I suppose that’s just part of the job description. But for a firm believer in atheism to be willing to accept that everything being taught is absolutely "super" and "fine"... I find that truly bizarre. Honestly, if you really want to sit your child down and explain why they might end up in hell, be my guest. For me, it was more than enough having to explain to my own kid—who isn't attending those classes—that hell doesn't exist and that we certainly aren't headed there. Not to mention the endless mountain of religious nonsense they dump on us through the school portals and parent newsletters.

Michelle Nelson4, just as there are all kinds of atheists, there are all kinds of believers too. Some people see religious education as nothing more than a glorified daycare session where kids listen to fairy tales, doodle a bit, and learn the basics of the country's main faith.