Creditors need to know we won't repay the debt that the US Congress didn't approve for the Democrati

Henry Hernandez7 said:You too???

Welcome to the club 👍 😉

👍 thanks 🙂

let the games begin 🙂

Andrew Barrett4 said:Is there such a thing as an ideal scenario? I suppose I’d vote for a government that actually respects the rule of law, practices some basic fiscal responsibility, and stays on top of its debts.

But then again, the world rarely works out that way... ☕

Perfect?
I'm out here voting for shutting down
and putting those greedy bankers and hedge fund vultures through the ringer.
And you better believe they should hand back every single cent they stole through usury.

Sadly enough,
the world isn't perfect... 😁

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Are these laws really that bizarre? And does this apply to every single bank regardless of ownership, or just the foreign ones? The federal budget only guarantees deposits up to a certain limit, and anything beyond that is just a depositor's loss.
By that logic, if I lease a car, get hammered, and wreck it because it was my own fault, the insurance won't cover it and the bank won't be able to collect.
And then they're just going to dump that onto the taxpayers?!

Small local American banks aren't affected by this. It doesn't apply to a Turkish bank operating here, and it doesn't apply to Chinese investors within the European Union either. This stuff only hits banks from the European Union and the USA—specifically those European Union and USA investors who are deeply embedded in powerful lobbying networks. You can see a textbook example of this in how Greek debt was handled, the Irish debt situation, and Iceland’s refusal to let private bank debt be dumped onto the shoulders of its citizens.

The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

mellownomad said:The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

Why would we offer any concessions at all? The money lent to Greece, Italy, Portugal, and the rest has already been spent, and only a tiny fraction was ever actually used for infrastructure. What's done is done.
- Wipe out all accounts across the entire European Union and cap them at $100,000 per SSN, then convert everything into a new currency.
- Leave companies with just $30,000 per employee.
- Erase all outstanding loans and just start from scratch.
- Then, take a look at how much cash is sitting in pension funds, slash their holdings, and convert those remaining amounts into new bank shares so that, effectively, the pension funds end up owning 51% of the banks.

mellownomad said:The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

Why would we offer any concessions? The money lent to Greece, Italy, Portugal, and the rest was already spent, and only a tiny fraction of it actually built anything tangible. What’s done is done.
- Wipe out every single account across the entire European Union, cap them at $100,000 per Social Security number, and convert whatever's left into a new Euro.
- Give companies a flat $30,000 per employee.
- Erase all debt and start from scratch.
- Then, take a look at how much cash is sitting in pension funds, slash their holdings, and convert those remaining amounts into new bank shares so that, effectively, the pension funds end up owning 51% of the banks.
- Non-European Union countries holding Euros must hand over owner data tied to specific taxpayer IDs. For any country that agrees to cooperate, we swap out a portion of their currency immediately.
Money is meant to be spent, not hoarded in piles. Gold is what you hoard.

mellownomad said:The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

So, let me get this straight: the people handing out all these loans—the ones with entire armies of risk analysts and economic forecasters at their disposal—somehow missed the whole Greek scenario? And because of that, they aren't to blame at all?

Or is it perhaps more realistic to suggest that those lending the money are intentionally destabilizing countries like Greece? You could almost argue that these crises are being manufactured on purpose...

Handing out credit without any real thought regarding the long-term fallout is nothing more than a dealer-addict relationship...

In my view, it would be much fairer if both parties shared the responsibility for the mess they created. The creditors should probably carry 75% of the blame, while the borrower takes 25%...

Are they destabilizing the nation by issuing these loans?
That’s a bit of a complex question... At the end of the day, a nation is comprised either of adults who are financially literate and capable, or a collection of people who lack judgment and require constant supervision.

Everyone claims to crave freedom, yet when they exercise that liberty irresponsibly, they aren't prepared to face the fallout. I call that a mindset of mental socialism.
It’s quite simple: you either embrace total freedom—complete with all its inherent opportunities and risks—or you don't have it at all.

mellownomad said:Are they destabilizing the nation by issuing these loans?
That’s a bit of a complex question... At the end of the day, a nation is comprised either of adults who are financially literate and capable, or a collection of people who lack judgment and require constant supervision.

Everyone claims to crave freedom, yet when they exercise that liberty irresponsibly, they aren't prepared to face the fallout. I call that a mindset of mental socialism.
It’s quite simple: you either embrace total freedom—complete with all its inherent opportunities and risks—or you don't have it at all.

Just yesterday, our government took on $9 billion in debt, and it barely even registered as news before everyone moved on to the next thing.

Did those supposedly "capable, adult citizens" say a single word about this borrowing?

What percentage of actual adults actually spoke up regarding yesterday's debt hike?

It would be lovely to live in a country where at least half the adult population actually uses their heads, but the reality here in America and across the whole world is something else entirely...

mellownomad said:The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

Back when Josip Broz Marshall was in charge, credit flowed freely!!

You don't necessarily have to write off anyone's debt or play nice. But let's be real here—you aren't going to get a single cent out of the 50% of young Greeks who are currently unemployed.
😲😁😲😲

Unless you're planning on reintroducing slavery, that is.

mellownomad said:Are they destabilizing the nation by issuing these loans?
That’s a bit of a complex question... At the end of the day, a nation is comprised either of adults who are financially literate and capable, or a collection of people who lack judgment and require constant supervision.

Everyone claims to crave freedom, yet when they exercise that liberty irresponsibly, they aren't prepared to face the fallout. I call that a mindset of mental socialism.
It’s quite simple: you either embrace total freedom—complete with all its inherent opportunities and risks—or you don't have it at all.

The only people actually suffering from this "mental socialism" are the political cronies in government offices and their little sidekicks.
People working in the actual private sector have been grinding away in brutal capitalism for twenty-five years now!!

Providing loans doesn't destabilize a nation. A nation gets destabilized when people actually start demanding those loans be paid back.😁

Clearly, some people just need a babysitter. Ivo Sanders is the perfect example of that mindset.

silentnomad7 said:Just yesterday, our government took on $9 billion in debt, and it barely even registered as news before everyone moved on to the next thing.

Did those supposedly "capable, adult citizens" say a single word about this borrowing?

What percentage of actual adults actually spoke up regarding yesterday's debt hike?

It would be lovely to live in a country where at least half the adult population actually uses their heads, but the reality here in America and across the whole world is something else entirely...

if you’d actually read the news more carefully yesterday, you'd realize the government basically borrowed from 'you' (pension funds were buying those bonds).

silentnomad7 said:Just yesterday, our government took on $9 billion in debt, and it barely even registered as news before everyone moved on to the next thing.

Did those supposedly "capable, adult citizens" say a single word about this borrowing?

What percentage of actual adults actually spoke up regarding yesterday's debt hike?

It would be lovely to live in a country where at least half the adult population actually uses their heads, but the reality here in America and across the whole world is something else entirely...

People tend toward ignorance by default, yet that doesn't absolve them of their responsibilities.
If they weren't so inherently shortsighted, we wouldn't be seeing devastating wars breaking out constantly.

mellownomad said:The core argument behind voting on this thread is quite simple: we shouldn't give Greece an inch of leeway. In fact, we should push them straight toward bankruptcy rather than offering any concessions.

Think about it this way: if we decide to bail them out, we aren't just helping one nation; we are effectively opening the floodgates. It would set a precedent that invites every other country to come knocking, demanding their own debts be wiped clean.
long live socialism! long live the Communist Party! long live Comrade Marshall!

and why on earth would that be a bad thing?

The Almighty brought heaven and installed communism.
Marshall brought heaven and installed socialism.

Why would that be a bad thing for us?

First, do you honestly believe a debtor should have the right to decide how much they owe? If you live in the USA, you have that agency; if you live in a place like this, you don't.
Second, why do I refer to this as "mental socialism"?

We have this deep-seated tradition of taking from the wealthy to redistribute to the poor.
There is an old proverb that suggests a wealthy man can become poor, but he will find his way back to wealth; however, a poor man might find wealth, only to slide right back into poverty.
Why does this happen? It comes down to several factors, one being the fundamental relationship one maintains with money.
By taking from those who actually possess capital—whether through progressive taxation or various progressive levies and similar burdens—we effectively penalize the very people who drive success. It is the successful individuals who push society forward.
You can argue with me, but workers and laborers alone don't push a society forward; they merely maintain the status quo.
Whether it is through progressive taxation or the refusal to honor debts, we are essentially incentivizing a socialist mindset...

And where has that path led us? The US has seen its own eras of massive fiscal instability, and looking at our history, we see the patterns.
People have always been leaving this country; one major wave began back in the mid-60s when people headed toward Europe, and the latest wave is happening right now.
Does that suggest we are a successful society? We are certainly not...
Einstein once noted that "the mind which creates the problem is not the same mind capable of solving it." In other words, we require an entirely different mindset.

How is a country like Germany so prosperous? They are prosperous because they don't spend their time lamenting their inability to pay off debt; instead, they focus on working and saving, working and saving... and then using those savings to purchase things (as Hayek might suggest).
They likely understand that wealth is built over generations and passed down accordingly.
We lack that awareness... why? Because every 20 to 30 years, the system feels the need to reset itself—wealth must be seized from someone, someone must flee the country, and so on...
It is because we lived under socialism and continue to harbor a socialist mindset... our current social order simply leans on those old habits.
If the public weren't so easily swayed, they wouldn't fall for the repetitive political games played by the Republicans and the Democrats.

That is precisely why I left and moved away. From a comfortable distance, I am watching the Titanic sink, because four or five years ago, I predicted the economy would hit a breaking point (and I felt the same way even earlier).

To conclude: there is a saying, "choose your own battles," and fighting for our debts to be wiped clean is a lost cause. Creditors will likely be even harsher with us than they were with Greece, and our only saving grace is that our debt load isn't quite as massive as theirs.
Instead of chasing fairy tales, we should be looking at how to actually repay that debt and fix the state of the nation.

mellownomad said:Why would that be a bad thing for us?

First, do you honestly believe a debtor should have the right to decide how much they owe? If you live in the USA, you have that agency; if you live in a place like this, you don't.
Second, why do I refer to this as "mental socialism"?

We have this deep-seated tradition of taking from the wealthy to redistribute to the poor.
There is an old proverb that suggests a wealthy man can become poor, but he will find his way back to wealth; however, a poor man might find wealth, only to slide right back into poverty.
Why does this happen? It comes down to several factors, one being the fundamental relationship one maintains with money.
By taking from those who actually possess capital—whether through progressive taxation or various progressive levies and similar burdens—we effectively penalize the very people who drive success. It is the successful individuals who push society forward.
You can argue with me, but workers and laborers alone don't push a society forward; they merely maintain the status quo.
Whether it is through progressive taxation or the refusal to honor debts, we are essentially incentivizing a socialist mindset...

And where has that path led us? The US has seen its own eras of massive fiscal instability, and looking at our history, we see the patterns.
People have always been leaving this country; one major wave began back in the mid-60s when people headed toward Europe, and the latest wave is happening right now.
Does that suggest we are a successful society? We are certainly not...
Einstein once noted that "the mind which creates the problem is not the same mind capable of solving it." In other words, we require an entirely different mindset.

How is a country like Germany so prosperous? They are prosperous because they don't spend their time lamenting their inability to pay off debt; instead, they focus on working and saving, working and saving... and then using those savings to purchase things (as Hayek might suggest).
They likely understand that wealth is built over generations and passed down accordingly.
We lack that awareness... why? Because every 20 to 30 years, the system feels the need to reset itself—wealth must be seized from someone, someone must flee the country, and so on...
It is because we lived under socialism and continue to harbor a socialist mindset... our current social order simply leans on those old habits.
If the public weren't so easily swayed, they wouldn't fall for the repetitive political games played by the Republicans and the Democrats.

That is precisely why I left and moved away. From a comfortable distance, I am watching the Titanic sink, because four or five years ago, I predicted the economy would hit a breaking point (and I felt the same way even earlier).

To conclude: there is a saying, "choose your own battles," and fighting for our debts to be wiped clean is a lost cause. Creditors will likely be even harsher with us than they were with Greece, and our only saving grace is that our debt load isn't quite as massive as theirs.
Instead of chasing fairy tales, we should be looking at how to actually repay that debt and fix the state of the nation.

Germany is rich because they didn't pay back their debts after WWI or WWII, and because the US pumped hundreds of trillions of dollars in grants into them. On top of that, they haven't paid up for the roughly $50 trillion to $100 trillion in damages caused across Europe.
Because of them, America lost about 400,000 people multiplied by €2 million, which totals €800 billion.
If not a single German had ever been born, America would probably have at least 10 to 12 million more people today. But German barbarism and hooliganism set us back so far we still haven't recovered.
Under American law, if you're driving a getaway car for a bank robbery and the robber kills someone, you as the driver get the exact same sentence as the shooter. If you hadn't been driving, they wouldn't have reached the location or had the chance to shoot in the first place.

mellownomad said:Why would that be a bad thing for us?

First, do you honestly believe a debtor should have the right to decide how much they owe? If you live in the USA, you have that agency; if you live in a place like this, you don't.
Second, why do I refer to this as "mental socialism"?

We have this deep-seated tradition of taking from the wealthy to redistribute to the poor.
There is an old proverb that suggests a wealthy man can become poor, but he will find his way back to wealth; however, a poor man might find wealth, only to slide right back into poverty.
Why does this happen? It comes down to several factors, one being the fundamental relationship one maintains with money.
By taking from those who actually possess capital—whether through progressive taxation or various progressive levies and similar burdens—we effectively penalize the very people who drive success. It is the successful individuals who push society forward.
You can argue with me, but workers and laborers alone don't push a society forward; they merely maintain the status quo.
Whether it is through progressive taxation or the refusal to honor debts, we are essentially incentivizing a socialist mindset...

And where has that path led us? The US has seen its own eras of massive fiscal instability, and looking at our history, we see the patterns.
People have always been leaving this country; one major wave began back in the mid-60s when people headed toward Europe, and the latest wave is happening right now.
Does that suggest we are a successful society? We are certainly not...
Einstein once noted that "the mind which creates the problem is not the same mind capable of solving it." In other words, we require an entirely different mindset.

How is a country like Germany so prosperous? They are prosperous because they don't spend their time lamenting their inability to pay off debt; instead, they focus on working and saving, working and saving... and then using those savings to purchase things (as Hayek might suggest).
They likely understand that wealth is built over generations and passed down accordingly.
We lack that awareness... why? Because every 20 to 30 years, the system feels the need to reset itself—wealth must be seized from someone, someone must flee the country, and so on...
It is because we lived under socialism and continue to harbor a socialist mindset... our current social order simply leans on those old habits.
If the public weren't so easily swayed, they wouldn't fall for the repetitive political games played by the Republicans and the Democrats.

That is precisely why I left and moved away. From a comfortable distance, I am watching the Titanic sink, because four or five years ago, I predicted the economy would hit a breaking point (and I felt the same way even earlier).

To conclude: there is a saying, "choose your own battles," and fighting for our debts to be wiped clean is a lost cause. Creditors will likely be even harsher with us than they were with Greece, and our only saving grace is that our debt load isn't quite as massive as theirs.
Instead of chasing fairy tales, we should be looking at how to actually repay that debt and fix the state of the nation.

Personally, I say let's just ban all products coming from whatever country you work for. And what happens when the entire world goes bankrupt and falls into poverty? Where is your precious new country supposed to sell its goods and services then?

wearytrucker22 said:Germany is rich because they didn't pay back their debts after WWI or WWII, and because the US pumped hundreds of trillions of dollars in grants into them. On top of that, they haven't paid up for the roughly $50 trillion to $100 trillion in damages caused across Europe.
Because of them, America lost about 400,000 people multiplied by €2 million, which totals €800 billion.
If not a single German had ever been born, America would probably have at least 10 to 12 million more people today. But German barbarism and hooliganism set us back so far we still haven't recovered.
Under American law, if you're driving a getaway car for a bank robbery and the robber kills someone, you as the driver get the exact same sentence as the shooter. If you hadn't been driving, they wouldn't have reached the location or had the chance to shoot in the first place.

By the way, that is a falsehood that gets pushed far too often.
Germany defaulted around 1932, and they have remained in debt ever since—though who knows exactly how much.
All those debts were restructured in 1953. Part of it was forgiven under a clause stating that any forgiven debt would have to be repaid if Germany ever reunified, which is precisely what happened when they reunited.

Incidentally, you seem to be the primary opponent of this so-called horrible debt (which doesn't even exist in the case of America), yet you would demand it be billed to Germany, even though nobody is asking for that (except perhaps the frantic Greeks).

You are once again fighting against the facts.

wearytrucker22 said:Personally, I say let's just ban all products coming from whatever country you work for. And what happens when the entire world goes bankrupt and falls into poverty? Where is your precious new country supposed to sell its goods and services then?

Look, nobody is stopping you from riding a bike everywhere if that's your thing.

Just send me a private message with a photo of the receipt after you buy the bike, along with a picture of yourself commuting to work on it...
Then maybe I'll consider doing the same.

mellownomad said:Look, nobody is stopping you from riding a bike everywhere if that's your thing.

Just send me a private message with a photo of the receipt after you buy the bike, along with a picture of yourself commuting to work on it...
Then maybe I'll consider doing the same.

I honestly can't tell if you moved to Japan or South Korea, given how much you're obsessing over commuting by car. If you had just said, "Hey, use a bike if you actually want to enjoy the ride," I would've assumed you relocated to Italy.
It's pretty simple: Italians build cars out of pure passion and soul; the Japanese and Koreans build them to be reliable tools. The French? They build them if you're a masochist who enjoys spending weekends at the mechanic. The British don't even have an auto industry anymore, and I’m certainly not crazy enough to drive some Russian-American junk. The Chinese are just starting to show up. Oh, and then there's Germany—they basically build cars for farmers.

Middle Eastern nations control the oil supply that powers our entire fleet of vehicles

Sent from my iPad using Reddit