Nosy banks

vividranger8 said:Really? Oh, I've got an example for you. So, back in early January, I file my corporate tax return using the official forms, and the FBI—well, the IRS, basically—takes it all in perfectly fine. Then, fast forward to mid-summer while I'm out enjoying some vacation, and suddenly the tax folks realize they updated a form—just a minor tweak to the layout, nothing actually changed—and they send me this notice saying I have 3 days to get them a brand new version, all while waving these massive, draconian fines in my face if I'm even slightly late.

Now, just imagine if an agency like that decided they wanted me to prove where a specific amount of money in my account came from—money I earned totally legally, mind you. What am I supposed to do, show up with a mountain of paperwork? Contracts, pay stubs, bank statements... do I really need to spend my entire life keeping every single scrap of paper in perfect order just in case some random bureaucrat at the IRS decides to go on a fishing expedition regarding my assets? It's just wild!

First off, if the deadline for filing corporate taxes is April 30th, why on earth are you turning yours in at the start of January? At that point, you probably don't even have all your incoming invoices or everything that needs to be booked for the previous year finalized.

And yeah... obviously you have to keep your documents if you're a corporate taxpayer.
Some files need to be kept for 10 years, and some apparently need to be kept forever.

My advice? If you've got a business or a LLC and you're dealing with corporate taxes, find yourself a decent accountant who can explain all this to you.

Honestly, I’ve never heard of any corporate taxpayer submitting their forms that early.

Edit: I think the record-keeping requirements changed recently. I'm not an expert since we keep everything for ages at my office, but I think it's tied to the statute of limitations. Something like 11 years, maybe 16 for some things, and then some stuff stays on file indefinitely... or something like that. I'd have to double-check my work files.

ruggedmaker2 said:First off, if the deadline for filing corporate taxes is April 30th, why on earth are you turning yours in at the start of January? At that point, you probably don't even have all your incoming invoices or everything that needs to be booked for the previous year finalized.

And yeah... obviously you have to keep your documents if you're a corporate taxpayer.
Some files need to be kept for 10 years, and some apparently need to be kept forever.

My advice? If you've got a business or a LLC and you're dealing with corporate taxes, find yourself a decent accountant who can explain all this to you.

Honestly, I’ve never heard of any corporate taxpayer submitting their forms that early.

Edit: I think the record-keeping requirements changed recently. I'm not an expert since we keep everything for ages at my office, but I think it's tied to the statute of limitations. Something like 11 years, maybe 16 for some things, and then some stuff stays on file indefinitely... or something like that. I'd have to double-check my work files.

The whole point is that the IRS has all these ways to mess with entrepreneurs and regular citizens whenever they feel like it. This specific case is about corporate tax, but they can act similarly if they suspect someone has "too much" cash sitting in a personal bank account. Especially when the legal system is such a mess, where you almost can't protect yourself from the whims of government agencies—I just don't want to be in a spot where I, as an individual, have to explain myself or prove anything to the IRS.

vividranger8 said:The whole point is that the IRS has all these ways to mess with entrepreneurs and regular citizens whenever they feel like it. This specific case is about corporate tax, but they can act similarly if they suspect someone has "too much" cash sitting in a personal bank account. Especially when the legal system is such a mess, where you almost can't protect yourself from the whims of government agencies—I just don't want to be in a spot where I, as an individual, have to explain myself or prove anything to the IRS.

Spot on. I've been there myself.
Since I work in this industry, I actually know my rights and what I owe as a taxpayer, so I wasn't about to stay quiet when they started demanding some completely useless, totally irrelevant paperwork.
(They were asking me to attach proof that my kids are in college alongside my DOH filing, even though they can clearly see it right there in their own system).
Knowing damn well that the lady behind the desk had the info and just didn't want to look for it, I called her supervisor. And wouldn't you know it... maybe she finally learned how to do her job.

But honestly, we realized a long time ago that you can't expect the same thing from every IRS branch in America, even if they're all following the exact same laws. It all comes down to who you happen to run into at the window.
I deal with several different tax offices... and it feels like I'm dealing with several different countries.

One thing is quite clear—the IRS (both at the national level and within local branches) seems to be staffed by a collection of incompetent, hysterical fools, though they certainly outnumber the supervisors in any given office,
is it really such a shock that certain information isn't readily available via a Social Security number or through an online portal these days?

Laura Chavez93 said:@moderator, I find myself wondering why banks actually agree to these kinds of requests from the IRS—requests that don't even strictly fall within their operational scope,
especially since it just results in an increased workload for bank employees—work that, by the way, the government isn't even subsidizing...

The government might not be paying, but banks will probably just hike up their service fees, so citizens end up footing the bill. Maybe they don't care, kind of like how cell providers act, since supply and demand is just what it is.

neondriver5 said:I don't think you need to lose any sleep if thirty people chipped in $67 each for a coworker's gift (🤣)

I’m not saying it’s exactly a dream scenario having the IRS peering directly into our personal bank accounts. I'm just thinking out loud here—they don't have nearly enough manpower to audit every single individual who receives a frequent or large transfer. They’re going to be surgical about it.

By surgical, I mean if a shell company with zero employees starts receiving $8,000 loans every single day, and then a week later that cash gets moved into Paul's account labeled as "consulting fees," well, let's just say Paul is going to have some explaining to do.

Honestly, they could have caught that kind of thing long ago, though I assume they would have needed to coordinate with the Department of Justice or some other federal agency first.

30 * 200 = $2.00, so 5% tax on that would be $100. I mean, why are you so sure the IRS will just let it slide? It’s possible they might, but maybe one day they’ll decide to set a precedent with transfers like that. Once you multiply it by the number of people, it becomes a huge amount of money. Everything is digital now—they can just run an algorithm that flags transactions, checks your SSN, and taxes anything that isn't from parents or kids at that 5% gift rate. Then you get to try and PROVE it was actually a gift.

I'm not saying it's great that the IRS gets a direct look at our accounts. I'm just thinking out loud here. They don't even have enough staff to audit every single person with frequent or large deposits. They'll probably just target specific people.

Once everything is digitized, they'll just need enough people to handle the appeals. And they can take months or even years to resolve those. Even if they're short-staffed now, I bet they'll have plenty of people in two years. Trust me, the state definitely won't skimp when it comes to collecting taxes.

wiredlynx28 said:Exactly, it’s a very broad term.
Take a look at a mandatory form, for instance. It asks which income bracket you fall into based on salary—up to $X amount, up to $Y amount, etc. Then it asks for your annual turnover in your checking account and so on. Based solely on those data points, if your business doesn't match the marked amounts, JPMorgan Chase sees that something is off. For example, if your total checking account turnover exceeds the declared limit and you have deposits that don't align with your salary, it’s obvious you have other income sources, and that gets reported to the IRS automatically. Then they come knocking, asking you to document the source of funds and all that jazz.
Basically, there's no cause for concern as long as you can prove where the money came from, regardless of the amount.
The bank is simply following orders from the Government.

I think you might be mistaken about that. My bank actually tried to pressure me into handing over all this info about where my money came from and a bunch of other stuff I didn't even need to provide. They kept bringing up facts, federal laws, international treaties, and things like that. Luckily, I know enough about these things to hold my ground, but I guess a lot of people get spooked and just fall for those tactics. It’s honestly pretty wild how little people realize their rights; I mean, they often end up feeling powerless because they're just uninformed or scared, and they don't even use the legal tools they have to fight back.

ruggedfox28 said:Is this on the banks, or is it the government passing laws like this?

Quentin:

savings interest is non-existent

Interest rates are what they are, and honestly, they’re just gonna keep dropping (look at Scandinavia or Switzerland—they’re already dealing with zero or even negative rates)... but that’s all dictated by the Federal Reserve and the general money market across the EU

Quentin:

loan interest is insane

Loan rates are actually at their lowest levels since the old Soviet Union days...

Man, you're just talking nonsense just to hear yourself talk...😬

Quentin:

everything is being taxed

,

We're looping again... Is it the banks' fault, or the government passing the laws the banks have to follow? Even in Switzerland, which everyone acts like is some secret paradise, banking secrecy isn't really a thing anymore

Quentin:

I don't see any reason to keep money in a bank.

I don't think you can even see what's right in front of you, judging by these comments...😬

Loan interest rates are at their lowest levels since the old America days...[/I]

The example above sort of shows the tragedy we're talking about.
I'm looking at a situation where I'm paying 1% interest in Austria, while a friend of mine in America is paying 4.8%. It’s honestly pretty sad how we reached a point where my friend (or this user above) thinks 4.8% isn't that bad just because, you know, "it's never been higher." I guess the level of brainwashing people deal with is actually kind of worrying. When you live in isolation for so long, I suppose you start accepting everything unhealthy in society and find ways to spin even the worst stuff as something positive. With a mindset like that, banking secrecy is probably the least of our problems.

We're repeating ourselves again... Is it the banks' fault, or the state that passed laws they have to follow? Banking secrecy doesn't even exist anymore in Switzerland, which everyone claims is such a special place.

Personally, I can't think of any other country with laws that completely ignore data privacy and protection. To me, America feels almost like some sort of test case to see how much you can enslave people without them even noticing. I guess America wasn't chosen by accident.

If some bank tries to squeeze more info out of you by hiding behind a "fact" or some other excuse, then that’s a whole different ballgame.
Look, if we're talking about massive sums of money, they used to hunt you down just to avoid getting flagged by the IRS for an audit. Now? They can see everything themselves, so there’s really no reason to go looking for trouble anymore.

This whole thing regarding bank account audits and financial transparency here in America? It’s been standard practice in other countries for ages. People don't even complain about it because they have nothing to hide. Just look at Scandinavia. There is zero chance someone dodges their taxes over there, which is exactly why their quality of life is so high—even if their tax rate sits at around 60% of their income.
It’s not just about the government hoarding data for its own sake. They can actually track whether a taxpayer holds assets in other signatory nations because information sharing is now standard practice among OECD members. This isn't limited to just the EU; it’s a global network designed to crack down on money laundering and other financial crimes.

I mean, honestly? I guess if you really think about it... maybe? I don't know! It just feels like such a wild thing to say out loud, right?! Like, wow. Just... wow.

wiredlynx28 said:If some bank tries to squeeze more info out of you by hiding behind a "fact" or some other excuse, then that’s a whole different ballgame.
Look, if we're talking about massive sums of money, they used to hunt you down just to avoid getting flagged by the IRS for an audit. Now? They can see everything themselves, so there’s really no reason to go looking for trouble anymore.

This whole thing regarding bank account audits and financial transparency here in America? It’s been standard practice in other countries for ages. People don't even complain about it because they have nothing to hide. Just look at Scandinavia. There is zero chance someone dodges their taxes over there, which is exactly why their quality of life is so high—even if their tax rate sits at around 60% of their income.
It’s not just about the government hoarding data for its own sake. They can actually track whether a taxpayer holds assets in other signatory nations because information sharing is now standard practice among OECD members. This isn't limited to just the EU; it’s a global network designed to crack down on money laundering and other financial crimes.

I don't know, I guess I'm just having a hard time believing this is actually true... maybe it's just me, but it feels a little off!
Do you have an example? I mean, maybe just one? Just to get me started! Or if you've got something ready to go, that would be awesome too... I guess!

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is... honestly, every single example we've stumbled upon points to the exact opposite! Like, seriously, the whole idea is that the government shouldn't be digging through your private bank accounts at all—let alone just poking around whenever they feel like it. It just doesn't sit right, you know?

I guess you could say the same thing about Scandinavia. I mean, take Victor Bloom—he’s from over there, and he was raking in millions at the poker tables even when he was just a kid; and honestly, nobody even questioned him! It’s just that, maybe, people weren't talking about his identity quite as loudly in the news back then.
I mean, honestly? It’s like nobody even bothered to check his bank statements. Not one single person! I guess they just totally skipped over his account history entirely... maybe they weren't even looking? It's just wild to me!

One day they approve this regulation for you, and then out of nowhere, some guy like Mikulic over in US Congress starts waving your private data around whenever he feels like it... and nobody can do a single thing about it. I mean, honestly, that’s basically how things already work anyway, isn't it?

I guess I should probably start by saying... well, I don't really know how to put this! But here goes nothing! So, I was just sitting here thinking about what was said, and honestly? I have so many thoughts! It’s kind of overwhelming, actually! I mean, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I really feel like there's so much more to dig into here. Like, wow! Just... wow! I'm just so excited to dive into this whole thing with you guys! It's going to be such a wild ride, I just know it! Maybe we can all just sit back, grab a coffee, and really get into the nitty-gritty of it all? I think that would be super fun! Anyway, let's just get started! I'm ready if you are! Let's goooo!

And honestly, people aren't even complaining because they feel like they’ve got nothing to hide anyway! I mean, maybe that's just how it is? It's like, if you haven't done anything wrong, why would you care, right? I guess some folks just don't see the big deal...

They aren't even complaining because, honestly, it wasn't even part of the official rules to begin with! I mean, just the slightest hint of it being mentioned before and everyone was losing their minds with complaints. We actually saw a similar situation play out once where they thought about trying something like that over in Germany, and—get this—they backed off almost immediately. Fast work!

Hey wiredlynx28, would you be cool if we just tucked some microphones all over your apartment? And maybe install some software on your computer to forward all your emails straight to the "proper authorities"? You know, like the Department of Homeland Security or something? I guess it wouldn't be that big of a deal, right? Maybe?

So, you don't really have any complaints to air, right? I mean, it’s not like you’ve got anything to hide or anything... I guess it's all just a way for them to double-check that you aren't breaking any laws! 😁

Hey! So, I was just thinking about this... maybe? I don't know, it's just a thought! Anyway, I wanted to jump in here and say hi!

I don't know how things work in other countries, but from where I'm sitting, there are some massive gray areas here.
For instance, once you finally explain where your money is coming from, does that cover just the past transactions, or are you set for the future too?
Take someone who mentioned they get their paycheck at one bank and then immediately wire the whole thing over to another account just to dodge fees or whatever... the IRS is going to start waving red flags pretty fast. It looks like that person is pulling double wages every single month. Once they explain their setup, is that a one-and-done deal, or will they be getting flagged again every few months because the pattern keeps repeating?
Then there’s the headache of gambling winnings. Apparently, people aren't getting official payout slips, which sounds sketchy to me. If that's the case, how are you even supposed to prove where that cash actually came from?

ironcyclist58 said:I don't know how things work in other countries, but from where I'm sitting, there are some massive gray areas here.
For instance, once you finally explain where your money is coming from, does that cover just the past transactions, or are you set for the future too?
Take someone who mentioned they get their paycheck at one bank and then immediately wire the whole thing over to another account just to dodge fees or whatever... the IRS is going to start waving red flags pretty fast. It looks like that person is pulling double wages every single month. Once they explain their setup, is that a one-and-done deal, or will they be getting flagged again every few months because the pattern keeps repeating?
Then there’s the headache of gambling winnings. Apparently, people aren't getting official payout slips, which sounds sketchy to me. If that's the case, how are you even supposed to prove where that cash actually came from?

That was me. :-)
I'm honestly dying to see if anyone actually asks me anything about it.

From iPhone 13

wiredlynx28 said:If some bank tries to squeeze more info out of you by hiding behind a "fact" or some other excuse, then that’s a whole different ballgame.
Look, if we're talking about massive sums of money, they used to hunt you down just to avoid getting flagged by the IRS for an audit. Now? They can see everything themselves, so there’s really no reason to go looking for trouble anymore.

This whole thing regarding bank account audits and financial transparency here in America? It’s been standard practice in other countries for ages. People don't even complain about it because they have nothing to hide. Just look at Scandinavia. There is zero chance someone dodges their taxes over there, which is exactly why their quality of life is so high—even if their tax rate sits at around 60% of their income.
It’s not just about the government hoarding data for its own sake. They can actually track whether a taxpayer holds assets in other signatory nations because information sharing is now standard practice among OECD members. This isn't limited to just the EU; it’s a global network designed to crack down on money laundering and other financial crimes.

Nah, I don't think it's a different story. I guess they just ran into someone who actually knows their rights and can quote the law, so I shut them down. It seems like they aren't asking those "relevant" questions anymore. The real issue is that most people fall for these scams because they're naive, don't care about their rights, and are honestly intimidated by banks. I haven't seen this kind of inferiority complex in citizens anywhere else in the world.

But if we're talking about huge sums of money, they were looking for you because otherwise they'd have to report you to the IRS for an audit. Now they can see everything themselves, so there's no need.

By hiding behind jargon the average American wouldn't understand, the bank was asking for details on the source of funds, income, and a bunch of other stuff on accounts with only a few hundred dollars in turnover—things they had no legal right or obligation to ask for. The Fact only applies to accounts with over $50K. A bank could claim they didn't know what the Fact said (even though the law is public), and maybe that's why they asked everyone, but I don't really buy it. What do you think?

The whole thing about reviewing account balances and such works fine in other countries, and people don't complain since they have nothing to hide. Just look at Scandinavia.

If we lived in Norway, a place that's organized, democratic, corruption-free, with honest politicians and a functional legal system... maybe what you're saying would make sense. But the reality is, all of this is happening here in America.

ironcyclist58 said:I don't know how things work in other countries, but from where I'm sitting, there are some massive gray areas here.
For instance, once you finally explain where your money is coming from, does that cover just the past transactions, or are you set for the future too?
Take someone who mentioned they get their paycheck at one bank and then immediately wire the whole thing over to another account just to dodge fees or whatever... the IRS is going to start waving red flags pretty fast. It looks like that person is pulling double wages every single month. Once they explain their setup, is that a one-and-done deal, or will they be getting flagged again every few months because the pattern keeps repeating?
Then there’s the headache of gambling winnings. Apparently, people aren't getting official payout slips, which sounds sketchy to me. If that's the case, how are you even supposed to prove where that cash actually came from?

I don't really see an issue there, honestly. You can clearly see the payout in one bank and the deposit in the other. Maybe a problem could arise if you're carrying cash from a foreign account and trying to deposit it into a US bank. You'd probably need to keep all those receipts handy.

And regarding the gambling stuff, if you don't get a receipt or a statement, I guess that would look like some shady, illegal business.

Nathan Morris3 said:I don't really see an issue there, honestly. You can clearly see the payout in one bank and the deposit in the other. Maybe a problem could arise if you're carrying cash from a foreign account and trying to deposit it into a US bank. You'd probably need to keep all those receipts handy.

And regarding the gambling stuff, if you don't get a receipt or a statement, I guess that would look like some shady, illegal business.

But honestly, that shouldn't be enough to fly. If it is, then this whole system is basically a joke.
For instance, I could just pull $3333 out of my account, blow through it, and then (whether it’s the same account or a different one) deposit some dirty cash from $3333 while claiming it’s just a match for that first withdrawal. You could pretty much justify anything that way, which makes the entire setup feel totally pointless...

wiredlynx28 said:If some bank tries to squeeze more info out of you by hiding behind a "fact" or some other excuse, then that’s a whole different ballgame.
Look, if we're talking about massive sums of money, they used to hunt you down just to avoid getting flagged by the IRS for an audit. Now? They can see everything themselves, so there’s really no reason to go looking for trouble anymore.

This whole thing regarding bank account audits and financial transparency here in America? It’s been standard practice in other countries for ages. People don't even complain about it because they have nothing to hide. Just look at Scandinavia. There is zero chance someone dodges their taxes over there, which is exactly why their quality of life is so high—even if their tax rate sits at around 60% of their income.
It’s not just about the government hoarding data for its own sake. They can actually track whether a taxpayer holds assets in other signatory nations because information sharing is now standard practice among OECD members. This isn't limited to just the EU; it’s a global network designed to crack down on money laundering and other financial crimes.

For the hundredth time, this isn't about people trying to hide assets (if you're actually hiding something, you wouldn't be putting it in a bank account anyway). It's about having to prove you aren't hiding anything. The real issue, and what you're getting at here, is that the system assumes every transaction on an account equals salary. That's just not true; a checking account isn't strictly for payroll.

Nathan Morris3 said:I don't really see an issue there, honestly. You can clearly see the payout in one bank and the deposit in the other. Maybe a problem could arise if you're carrying cash from a foreign account and trying to deposit it into a US bank. You'd probably need to keep all those receipts handy.

And regarding the gambling stuff, if you don't get a receipt or a statement, I guess that would look like some shady, illegal business.

It’s not a problem as long as nobody asks questions. The trouble starts when they do, and suddenly you're stuck proving you didn't do anything wrong. The real question is whether the IRS is actually going to flag it, or if you'll end up having to show them the receipts manually.

ironcyclist58 said:But honestly, that shouldn't be enough to fly. If it is, then this whole system is basically a joke.
For instance, I could just pull $3333 out of my account, blow through it, and then (whether it’s the same account or a different one) deposit some dirty cash from $3333 while claiming it’s just a match for that first withdrawal. You could pretty much justify anything that way, which makes the entire setup feel totally pointless...

What you wrote is basically the same as saying you spent illegal $3.25. Yeah, obviously the UP doesn't monitor all of that. At least not if you're spending it on things they don't track. I guess the point here isn't really about stopping the shadow economy anyway, though someone who only has underground income might theoretically run into trouble. But then again, in the US, it's pretty easy to wash cash with maybe 10% in costs or less. It's easiest if you own property in Florida; for just $167 you could probably clean $5.00 😁

Nathan Morris3 said:I don't really see an issue there, honestly. You can clearly see the payout in one bank and the deposit in the other. Maybe a problem could arise if you're carrying cash from a foreign account and trying to deposit it into a US bank. You'd probably need to keep all those receipts handy.

And regarding the gambling stuff, if you don't get a receipt or a statement, I guess that would look like some shady, illegal business.

Have any of you ever actually placed bets? If so, have you ever walked away with a win? I’m talking about the old-school way—walking into a physical sportsbook or using one of those machines at a local pub. Or maybe you've been to a casino and actually hit a jackpot? Here is my experience: over the last nine years (though I haven't been active for the last year or two, so things might have changed), I have never once received an official payout slip. All I could ever do was make a photocopy of the winning ticket and keep that for myself, since they always insist on keeping the original. Honestly, I never even bothered to do that, especially after reading on a forum how someone got absolutely hounded by authorities just for trying to prove their winnings with a photo of a ticket. How are you even supposed to prove to the IRS where all that accumulated cash came from, especially when I almost always transferred it straight to my checking account, with a chunk being funneled immediately back into the next bet?

Hypothetically speaking, if I’ve been slowly skimming cash from my checking account over several years to stash away USD under my mattress, what happens when it's time to buy a car? I’d need to deposit a massive lump sum back into my account to pay the dealership. How do I pull that off without raising any red flags with the IRS?

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