Practice gratitude?

placidwolf27 said:Because it serves as nothing more than a bitter confirmation of my own inadequacy—my own fundamental weakness—I have to admit that I wouldn’t have achieved a single thing during those pivotal moments in my life if it weren't for the people who stepped in to help me... much like they would for their own children. There are things people have done for me—favors and gestures that didn't even cost them a second thought—yet I find myself unable to truly repay them... unless I were to spend five years working solely with the intention of making things right...

It’s a bitter pill to swallow—watching your own incompetence and weakness laid bare like that. It feels even more pathetic when you realize how much stronger and more capable everyone else is, simply because they actually had the capacity to step up and help... something I could never quite manage. I guess I'm just built that way...

Because it’s just one unending, relentless grind—day after day after day... and it’s been that way for at least decades now.

And honestly, I would pay it back. Especially if I could... some people left this world before I even got started, and others are just arriving now, whom I hope to assist if the opportunity arises. Just remember, helping isn't really about "repayment." When someone helps another person simply AS A PERSON, they aren't looking for a return. It's just what humans do. They do it because they are human.

It feels pathetic, seeing how incapable and weak you are. It feels even worse realizing how much stronger and more capable others are, simply because they were able to step in and help. I could never be in that position; I'm just built that way.

I know... I understand where you're coming from... and I realize that doesn't make the situation any easier. I am also incapable of many things. If I may say so, if it doesn't sound too presumptuous, these feelings are ultimately frustrations—however heavy they may be—that are real, and one eventually learns to live with them. I gained most of mine over the course of my life, mostly through a single experience that completely leveled me; it took years and years of work just to begin processing it... to learn how to exist alongside it. To be honest, before that happened, I didn't even have the faith or the perspective to believe such a possibility existed. It was a total mess. I hope my understanding aligns with yours, because if I'm reading you correctly based on my own history, there isn't much I can offer besides empathy and understanding.

Because it's just constant misery and bullshit, day after day after day, for at least decades.

Ugh... I've been dealing with it for years. I don't quite know how to describe the state of being, the sensation of it all... but over time, through countless falls, through breaking down and rebuilding myself, it sounds grim, but it became... easier. More tolerable. It's unpleasant, but based on my experience, I'm telling you that the misery and the bullshit eventually become manageable. Hang in there, man. Hold on. Be strong, both against the misery and the bullshit itself.

I suppose to people who haven't lived through something similar, it might sound absurd for someone to advise them to... well, essentially get used to the misery and the bullshit, or to "surrender" to such a fate. I don't truly know what you're going through, but if it is as you say—if you've already concluded that you cannot change or influence it—then that is one thing. But it's another matter entirely if/when/should you actually be able to.

Good luck. 😉

P.S. Watch the movie *Bronson*. I recommend it as a study in willpower and perseverance. Don't misunderstand me, as the film contains elements that could be interpreted negatively, but I found it to be much more positive than it appears at first glance.

placidwolf27 said:I don't know... there are certain people I have reasons to be thankful to, and frankly, that's an uncomfortable, even degrading sensation to sit with...

As for everything else—I don't know. To whom am I supposed to give thanks for, say, my anatomy? To whom?

But it’s never truly finished—we don't even know if it's finished once you die. We just comfort ourselves with the notion that, based on what we know, death is finally the end. All those things I possess that I might lose—those theoretical scenarios where I have nothing, or even actual times when I had nothing—they haven't sparked any sense of gratitude in me. They just add to the misery of having to exist. All those things that are supposedly "sources" of gratitude are merely things that make existence bearable, or simply keep it going... and nobody asked for this in the first place.

How exactly are you supposed to be grateful for being hungry every single day? If there were no food, you wouldn't be hungry every day...
but you *are* hungry every day.
And thirsty every day...
And you wake up and get out of bed every day...
And you're tired and want to sleep every day...
And you perform endless, absurd rituals every day—most often the exact same ones over and over...
And tomorrow, you'll be hungry again.

And that's just the easy part...

Well, I'm hungry because I'm a human being, obviously.😁

To be real with you, it’s kind of sad that you can't find any gratitude in anything, and that seeing people help one another feels like proof of your own incompetence, based on what you said.

Everyone is just out here trying to find some kind of purpose. Once you actually find it, I think everything becomes a lot easier to handle. What you described—people getting up every day, feeling thirsty, being tired, and running through these loops of absurd actions—that's just called LIFE. And it really all comes down to your perspective. If you look at it as nothing but a series of pointless chores, then that's all it's ever going to be. But if you see it as a gift—something precious and once-in-a-lifetime—where you realize you have the chance to help someone or brighten their mood, and you're the type of person who actually enjoys that, then everything starts to make sense. It finds meaning when you do something totally mundane, like heading to the Post Office and giving the clerk a genuine smile that actually turns their whole day around, or when you're driving and a song you love comes on so you crank up the radio, or just stepping outside and catching a gorgeous sunny day... Life isn't about those massive milestones and huge achievements; it's found in all those little everyday moments.

I honestly can’t wrap my head around how you can think—let alone feel—in such a way. I mean, I grasp the basic logic behind what you’re saying, but my brain just refuses to process it... it’s like trying to explain to me that sandpaper is actually smooth, or that a piece of cardboard is somehow a brick

I mean, how can a thing possibly depend on "how you look at it" in the first place?
People love to throw that cliché around constantly, but even then, I don't see how it applies here
That would imply that my actual, lived experience isn't "accurate"—that the raw sensation of frustration, hatred, helplessness, or shame I feel in a specific moment is somehow "incorrect"... as if the "correct" version would be noticing some beautiful bird on a branch, or how perfectly the sunlight hits the blinds, making everything feel alright again

I don't know, I just can't get there. I understand the theory—that there should be some sort of process involved. We could argue that all this internal chaos happening inside a person is mostly just nonsense, and that there ought to be ways to deal with it properly, somehow... but once you start down that path, there’s no turning back. You can't just decide that the negative stuff is suddenly bullshit while claiming the positive stuff is "truth." That’s not how it works; it's all just equally meaningless bullshit

Besides, those little bursts of positivity—some pleasant day or a clerk at the DMV being nice to you—they don't even reach a level of significance where they could actually change anything. They simply don't matter

I don't know... I’m honestly trying to force myself to find something—anything—to feel genuinely grateful for right now, but it's just not happening...

There is no such thing as strictly right or wrong... the brain doesn't truly grasp the distinction between "good and evil."

It’s all taught, I suppose... most of these concepts are essentially etched into the mind through our culture and how we're raised by those around us. Anything could be instilled there, and who knows what actually remains once you're on your own...

Look, science hasn't come all that far, though it has certainly made some progress and might have something worth offering you, if nothing else.

I’d suggest exploring it for yourself... frankly, I try to avoid trying to convince people of anything. I suspect it’s a better—albeit much slower, more difficult, and perhaps riskier—path for an individual to discover their own truths and tap into their true potential.

The concept of good versus bad simply doesn't exist. There is no guilt. Guilt is just a lie, a supposedly "necessary" one, according to those tired old clichés that offer zero practical results.😉

There are so many lies out there... attempting to over-analyze everything is a direct route to schizophrenia, in my opinion.

Feelings, despite being unpredictable and "dangerous," are far more reliable than any other system, at least in my experience. They aren't invented or learned; they are primal and innate. Though, even then, anything can happen, which I believe is just another byproduct of our environment.

In a purely primal, natural state, a human wouldn't experience nearly as much negativity as they do within society. Of course, other negative emotions exist, and they always will be present, but the question is really about the degree and how much one can actually endure.👍

I suppose I rambled a bit... sorry if that was too much.😵

placidwolf27 said:They claim gratitude is some sort of inherently positive emotion—there are even entire self-help squads out there preaching these ritualized daily gratitude practices, suggesting they supposedly bolster one's psychological resilience over the long haul.

I just don't grasp what makes gratitude "positive" in essence, or why it should be viewed as such... nor am I clear on what one is actually supposed to be thankful for, or even why it matters in the first place.

I mean, seriously... what is that even about?

I'm not totally sure if it's true, but I think I read somewhere that gratitude might actually be the most beautiful emotion we can feel. It feels positive because when you're grateful, you start seeing the world more like a gift rather than just one big struggle or a constant fight. And we definitely have things to be thankful for. There are gifts all around us, but I guess we spend way too much time obsessing over the future stuff we might get instead. That seems like a bit of a bummer 😁

placidwolf27 said:I honestly can’t wrap my head around how you can think—let alone feel—in such a way. I mean, I grasp the basic logic behind what you’re saying, but my brain just refuses to process it... it’s like trying to explain to me that sandpaper is actually smooth, or that a piece of cardboard is somehow a brick

I mean, how can a thing possibly depend on "how you look at it" in the first place?
People love to throw that cliché around constantly, but even then, I don't see how it applies here
That would imply that my actual, lived experience isn't "accurate"—that the raw sensation of frustration, hatred, helplessness, or shame I feel in a specific moment is somehow "incorrect"... as if the "correct" version would be noticing some beautiful bird on a branch, or how perfectly the sunlight hits the blinds, making everything feel alright again

I don't know, I just can't get there. I understand the theory—that there should be some sort of process involved. We could argue that all this internal chaos happening inside a person is mostly just nonsense, and that there ought to be ways to deal with it properly, somehow... but once you start down that path, there’s no turning back. You can't just decide that the negative stuff is suddenly bullshit while claiming the positive stuff is "truth." That’s not how it works; it's all just equally meaningless bullshit

Besides, those little bursts of positivity—some pleasant day or a clerk at the DMV being nice to you—they don't even reach a level of significance where they could actually change anything. They simply don't matter

Look, I laid everything out from my own point of view, and obviously, we aren't all cut from the same cloth, so we aren't going to see things the same way.

What's universal for everyone is the fact that we project our internal state and moods outward onto the world. Things and people exist around us, and it's totally up to us how we react to them. There's no such thing as an absolute truth. If you theoretically took two people living identical lives, one could be happy most of the time while the other is miserable. How does that work? It's because they have different perspectives and different ways of experiencing their surroundings and the people in them. For example, imagine they both fail a huge midterm at UCLA. One might get crushed, decide they're a failure, and just give up on school entirely. The other will be disappointed too, but they'll look at the situation objectively, admit where they messed up, and study harder to pass next time. They won't waste energy whining; they'll channel that energy into doing better. A string of situations like that eventually builds either satisfaction or frustration with life. You know the old cliché about the glass being half full or half empty? It all depends on how you see it. Some people find a lesson in a loss or a sad moment and end up being grateful later because that lesson changed their whole outlook.

Also, if I were in your shoes, I'd start questioning the kind of people you're hanging out with. Don't take this the wrong way, but in healthy, normal relationships, people see help as a gesture of friendship that brings them closer, yet you felt incapable just because someone lent you a hand. Something feels off about that kind of assistance. I want to tell you that not everyone helps because they're a good person. Unfortunately, there are people who help primarily so others will feel indebted to them, or just to make themselves look important and powerful. They help for selfish reasons to prove they're big-time philanthropists or super capable, all while subtly making the other person feel inferior. So, it's completely understandable why you wouldn't feel any gratitude toward people like that.

Jesse Mendoza4 said:Look, I laid everything out from my own point of view, and obviously, we aren't all cut from the same cloth, so we aren't going to see things the same way.

What's universal for everyone is the fact that we project our internal state and moods outward onto the world. Things and people exist around us, and it's totally up to us how we react to them. There's no such thing as an absolute truth. If you theoretically took two people living identical lives, one could be happy most of the time while the other is miserable. How does that work? It's because they have different perspectives and different ways of experiencing their surroundings and the people in them. For example, imagine they both fail a huge midterm at UCLA. One might get crushed, decide they're a failure, and just give up on school entirely. The other will be disappointed too, but they'll look at the situation objectively, admit where they messed up, and study harder to pass next time. They won't waste energy whining; they'll channel that energy into doing better. A string of situations like that eventually builds either satisfaction or frustration with life. You know the old cliché about the glass being half full or half empty? It all depends on how you see it. Some people find a lesson in a loss or a sad moment and end up being grateful later because that lesson changed their whole outlook.

Also, if I were in your shoes, I'd start questioning the kind of people you're hanging out with. Don't take this the wrong way, but in healthy, normal relationships, people see help as a gesture of friendship that brings them closer, yet you felt incapable just because someone lent you a hand. Something feels off about that kind of assistance. I want to tell you that not everyone helps because they're a good person. Unfortunately, there are people who help primarily so others will feel indebted to them, or just to make themselves look important and powerful. They help for selfish reasons to prove they're big-time philanthropists or super capable, all while subtly making the other person feel inferior. So, it's completely understandable why you wouldn't feel any gratitude toward people like that.

No, that would be fine—that’s clear enough. If that were the case, we wouldn't effectively owe anyone anything; we'd just handle our own business, and if someone tries to manipulate you, you either shut them down or, if the situation is truly screwed, you just deal with the fallout...

But when someone unprompted burdens you with the weight of their "help"—or things they did specifically for you—and all you can offer in return is gratitude, it creates this nauseating, cramped sensation... something akin to pity, I suppose...

In my view, it’s like someone handing you a gift you never asked for—actually, it's worse if it's something you actually needed in the moment. Sure, great, you got what you needed, but now you're stuck in this loop... and now what exactly are you supposed to do with that?...

I mean, a person does something kind for you, and suddenly you're left wondering how to navigate the obligation of it all... and what comes next...

placidwolf27 said:No, that would be fine—that’s clear enough. If that were the case, we wouldn't effectively owe anyone anything; we'd just handle our own business, and if someone tries to manipulate you, you either shut them down or, if the situation is truly screwed, you just deal with the fallout...

But when someone unprompted burdens you with the weight of their "help"—or things they did specifically for you—and all you can offer in return is gratitude, it creates this nauseating, cramped sensation... something akin to pity, I suppose...

In my view, it’s like someone handing you a gift you never asked for—actually, it's worse if it's something you actually needed in the moment. Sure, great, you got what you needed, but now you're stuck in this loop... and now what exactly are you supposed to do with that?...

I mean, a person does something kind for you, and suddenly you're left wondering how to navigate the obligation of it all... and what comes next...

I'm not sure exactly how this person helped you, but honestly, if you're getting that nasty, sinking feeling in your gut, listen to your instincts, because there's definitely something off about this "help" or "favor." Like we talked about before, not everyone helps out because they're actually kind or selfless, so you really have to look at why people are stepping up for you. I once saw this "philanthropist" giving a speech where he went on and on about exactly how much money he donated, calling the people he helped "the poor and the helpless," and obviously expecting everyone to practically bow down whenever they see him on the street because his "greatness" is just so huge. He acted like he'd put them in his debt forever and that everyone owed him, especially those two kids who should be eternally grateful. Honestly, when those kids grow up, they shouldn't feel *grateful*—I mean, sure, the guy did a good thing, but that doesn't give him the right to brag about it to anyone who will listen. If you want to help, just help and keep your mouth shut, instead of being selfish and branding those kids who already suffered enough through their parents' poverty. To me, that's a perfect example of doing something "good" for purely selfish reasons, and the damage caused by his bragging and ego is real. In a situation like that, it’d be totally normal if those kids grew up and felt zero gratitude when they remembered him and what happened.

Let me give you an example of what a healthy, helpful relationship actually looks like. Say you have a friend who hears that a big company like Google or Amazon posted a job opening, and the description fits your skills perfectly while you're looking for work. Your friend passes that info along, and you apply. Regardless of whether you get the job or not, I think that's a massive reason to be thankful to that friend—just the simple fact that they looked out for you and shared that lead.👍