School Reform: Thoughts?

Quincy:

I simply cannot begin to express the sheer, unadulterated exhaustion I am feeling right now. It is one of those days where everything seems to be conspiring against my sanity, and frankly, I’m not even sure where to start with the chaos. My brain feels like it's been through a blender, and yet, here I am, attempting to compose myself for the sake of this forum. It's quite ridiculous, really. kaže: How much would you all be in favor of the idea that educators who teach problematic students, children with special needs, or those with cognitive impairments should receive higher salaries?

If I were in their shoes... 🤷
And just like that, I’m handing everything over on a silver platter, only to realize I'm getting paid significantly less for the privilege. It's quite a ridiculous situation, really. ☕

Quincy:

What would actually happen if a highly compensated professor were handed an entire class like this—one where they somehow managed to unlock that latent potential and truly spark their interest? Imagine a scenario where a student finally catches fire and ascends to a completely different level of academic excellence. Would those elite professors, the ones who exclusively teach the "gifted" tracks, just swoop in and snatch them up immediately? It makes one wonder about the systemic gatekeeping involved.

We should run a few tests on it first; if it performs exceptionally well, we can move it up to a higher tier.

Quincy:

I am certainly not advocating for segregation; rather, I find myself increasingly in favor of simply having smaller class sizes.

That only really works in theory.
It appears we have arrived at yet another instance of the same old distribution: an equal split of struggling, mediocre, and top-tier students. Nothing ever truly changes, does it? It is quite a repetitive cycle. Once again, I find myself tasked with drafting three separate lesson plans just to ensure I am addressing all three distinct groups simultaneously. It is rather exhausting, if I’m being honest.
It’s frankly detrimental to the classroom experience.

Jason Morgan said:That’s spot on. In elementary school, kids in grades 1 through 4 don't actually sit for summer school or make-up exams; they just move up to the next grade even if they have a failing mark. It happened a few times last year.
To give you a concrete example, there was one little guy who moved from second grade to third grade despite carrying a failing math grade that he'd been dragging along since first grade.😵
Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue what the logic is behind that system.

Since when did that become the rule?
I can only think of one specific case where a kid actually failed first grade back in the 2000/2001 school year. That child had some special needs and ended up spending a good chunk of the school year in a children's hospital.

silentraven6 said:How many of you would actually support giving higher salaries to teachers who work with students facing significant challenges—specifically those with special needs or learning disabilities?

Think about the ripple effect. If a highly compensated teacher takes on a particularly difficult classroom and somehow manages to spark real potential in them—if they actually succeed in helping a child reach a whole new level—what happens next? Would those same teachers just swoop in and take over the kids once they’ve become "easier" to teach in the mainstream classes?

Look, I’m not advocating for segregation. I’m talking about smaller class sizes. But I am saying that if a teacher is tasked with designing lessons specifically meant to squeeze every bit of potential out of every single student, they should be compensated for that level of effort. I’ve seen this firsthand during my internships at both elementary and high schools. Given the types of classes I've worked with—I've only had four professors in my life, but they exist—it's a real thing.

So, how do some of them actually pull it off?

Yes, it would certainly be desirable for teachers to receive a salary supplement when working in classrooms with such difficult conditions. However, above all else, they ought to be granted the autonomy to determine the scope of the material they teach, guided by both objective realities and subjective capabilities, ensuring that these children actually learn something during their time in class.

And honestly, it would be far better for those kids to hear the most essential concepts three times over—even if it interrupts their colleagues—so they can grasp enough to earn a C or even a D if they focus, rather than being bombarded with all the granular details required by students aiming for an A.

Smaller classes do make the job easier, but it only takes one disruptive student to prevent everyone else from learning effectively. My own child is in a class that isn't large, yet the lack of discipline is so profound that even veteran teachers nearing retirement can't get them to retain anything. Even if there were only ten students in a room, if the group is heterogeneous in terms of knowledge and interest in learning, it is harder to teach than a group of thirty similar students. A single class period lasts only forty-five minutes; there is simply no time for true individualization. Furthermore, when that attempt is made, the top performers end up with significant downtime, and it is those very individuals who will eventually be responsible for driving our nation's economic and social development.

It is quite clear that "vertical mobility" should be permitted once certain criteria are met: specifically, through testing proficiency and discussing motivation and the desire to work, provided this occurs without disrupting others (or within boundaries that are age-appropriate).

Just wanted to bump this thread, I stumbled upon this article

It covers a recent education reform over in Denmark. I actually really love what they're saying here, though I have to admit I’m a bit skeptical about whether something like this could ever fly here in the States 😢. It feels like such a different approach to how we handle things locally
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In the Danish-founded school system, they have a preschool year (Grade 0), followed by nine years of primary school (Grades 1–9), and then a tenth grade. One thing that really caught my eye is that they don't actually use traditional grades until the 7th grade. Instead, teachers constantly monitor their students, providing continuous feedback on their progress, skill levels, and knowledge, along with practical guidance to help them plan and organize their learning.

Did they make this in Finland?

rowdypanther12 said:Did they make this in Finland?

Probably
there are quite a few similarities.

I personally absolutely love the idea of getting rid of letter grades altogether. I’ve been chatting with some folks in the American education system, and they keep telling me that something like this would never fly here—that kids just wouldn't bother studying without them. It reminds me of how we recently stopped issuing mid-term report cards; in my opinion, that was mostly just for show. It feels like teachers still just round up grades whenever they want to keep things looking a certain way, essentially maintaining that same old grade pressure.
I won't say the whole comparison is totally pointless, but we really need to shift our mindset regarding why we actually learn in the first place...

I posted this on a different thread a while back, but even if we implemented the Finnish system here 100%, I think it would struggle to actually work in the US
Our mindset just isn't built for it; people don't change that easily

Susan James said:Just wanted to bump this thread, I stumbled upon this article

It covers a recent education reform over in Denmark. I actually really love what they're saying here, though I have to admit I’m a bit skeptical about whether something like this could ever fly here in the States 😢. It feels like such a different approach to how we handle things locally
.
In the Danish-founded school system, they have a preschool year (Grade 0), followed by nine years of primary school (Grades 1–9), and then a tenth grade. One thing that really caught my eye is that they don't actually use traditional grades until the 7th grade. Instead, teachers constantly monitor their students, providing continuous feedback on their progress, skill levels, and knowledge, along with practical guidance to help them plan and organize their learning.

rowdypanther12, I wouldn't call it a "mentality" issue. To be honest, I think mindset is heavily tied to a country's GDP—trust me on this. When people have a solid quality of life and their basic needs are met, there's actually room to focus on improving education. That's just how it looks to me. A person who feels secure is much more likely to embrace new ideas or even try to reflect on spiritual or intellectual growth. On the flip side, a society that feels constantly dissatisfied tends to breed fundamentalism and radicalism. It leads to people retreating into these traditionally distorted viewpoints where no progress happens... unless you get a revolution, which is usually pretty bloody.

Given how far our own society has fallen and how much rot there is in every single corner of it, this kind of thing feels like a total utopia.

I’d say the GDP really comes down to the national mindset 😁

It really comes down to mindset more than GDP.

In our schools, kids walk through the doors with such wildly inconsistent backgrounds and parental expectations. You’ll have some children who haven't even mastered holding a pencil or tying their own shoes, while others are already fluently reading in two languages. Look at kids in places like Sweden or Denmark; they regularly see their parents actually sitting down with books, and they spend an incredible amount of time out in nature. There is a genuine push for independence. Here? It often feels like the standard approach is just, "Leave me alone, here’s a TV and a computer, go entertain yourself."

Just because they don't use letter grades over there doesn't mean they aren't assessing knowledge; they utilize metrics like percentage of tasks completed or class ranking within a specific school to track success. They need those indicators to know exactly where to step in and help. Furthermore, they maintain a much higher ratio of educators to students, which makes the job manageable. As for this "integration" everyone talks about, it’s mostly structural. Students are grouped based on their skill levels and interests so they don't end up holding one another back. We simply don't have the budget for that kind of precision—we can barely afford the basic things we are currently trying to provide.

rowdypanther12 said:I’d say the GDP really comes down to the national mindset 😁

I’d have to agree with that! 😬
It’s a bit of a double whammy when you look at where our tax dollars actually end up. On one hand, you have funds that technically enter the budget but get diverted into the wrong pockets because of political maneuvering and all the red tape that comes with it. It’s frustrating to see money meant for public good getting lost in those political loopholes. On the other hand, there's the issue of revenue that never even makes it to the treasury in the first place. A lot of people try to dodge their tax obligations because they just don't see the direct "return on investment." They don't feel like they're getting any real value back—especially when it comes to things like quality public education or infrastructure. It becomes this cycle where people opt out because they don't see the benefit, which only makes the whole system struggle more.

It’s a bit of a catch-22, isn't it? It feels like when it comes to school staff, you either get someone who is absolutely world-class—and likely being paid a premium for that expertise—or you end up with someone totally mediocre who somehow earns the exact same paycheck. It’s a frustrating gap to see.

I was just wondering who those people actually are. Top 300 picks. And what exactly will they be using to make those decisions?
To be honest, looking at the leadership behind this whole reform, I’m actually feeling pretty optimistic. I have a real sense that we might finally see some drastic, high-quality changes coming our way.

I'll let you know once I find out; a friend of mine just signed up for 😁
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By the way, this little group they're running sounds pretty promising.

rowdypanther12 said:I'll let you know once I find out; a friend of mine just signed up for 😁
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By the way, this little group they're running sounds pretty promising.

He actually stopped by my faculty lounge today to set up some sit-downs with the teachers. I’ve been working in education for a while now, and let me tell you, we’ve seen plenty of "education reforms" come and go, but this is the first time an actual reformer has walked into our workspace to actually talk to the people on the front lines about how things work.
For what it's worth, I'm also a huge advocate for getting rid of letter grades, even at the high school level. I truly believe I could provide a much more holistic and nuanced look at a student's progress through descriptive feedback rather than just slapping a grade on them. Using a narrow scale—like a 1 to 5 system—is such a blunt instrument. Believe me, trying to squeeze a complex human being into one single number within such a tiny range can be a total nightmare sometimes.

hiddendriver34 said:He actually stopped by my faculty lounge today to set up some sit-downs with the teachers. I’ve been working in education for a while now, and let me tell you, we’ve seen plenty of "education reforms" come and go, but this is the first time an actual reformer has walked into our workspace to actually talk to the people on the front lines about how things work.
For what it's worth, I'm also a huge advocate for getting rid of letter grades, even at the high school level. I truly believe I could provide a much more holistic and nuanced look at a student's progress through descriptive feedback rather than just slapping a grade on them. Using a narrow scale—like a 1 to 5 system—is such a blunt instrument. Believe me, trying to squeeze a complex human being into one single number within such a tiny range can be a total nightmare sometimes.

🎉 Me too, me too! 🎉

I know it means more paperwork and that it might be a bit more subjective, but I honestly think it's a great idea!

Anyway, that group sounds really promising to me, whether they are reaching out through the news or privately... I just really hope they don't mess up the selection process for those 300 members. I hope they are chosen based on clear criteria and that they are people who truly want to see change. The fact that they are coming straight to the teachers' lounges is just a massive plus.

I've been reading through a few interviews lately, and after hearing what my friend had to say about it—maybe I'm just being naive—but this feels like a really well-thought-out reform.
It seems to have some solid goals behind it.
I'm just hoping the actual rollout and execution end up being half as good as the plan itself.

They totally blanked on the fact that it’s an election year, so let’s be real—that whole reform thing is dead in the water

Why isn't there a 1 to 10 rating scale here?

I honestly don't see this stopping just because of the upcoming elections—maybe things might slow down if there's a shift in funding, but that's about it.
Since the way this is structured isn't actually tied to politics, I really don't think the election results will have much of an impact.

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't see this stopping just because of the upcoming elections—maybe things might slow down if there's a shift in funding, but that's about it.
Since the way this is structured isn't actually tied to politics, I really don't think the election results will have much of an impact.

The people actually doing the work definitely aren't tied to politics.

I am also a bit worried about the budget side of things—specifically whether they'll pause everything if funds run dry—as well as the selection process for who gets involved.

The team is looking for hands-on experts rather than just theorists, 🙏 and they're asking the government or the unions to cover full salaries while they work on this, plus hire replacements to fill their roles for those six months.
That's where my concern lies: how will management decide who gets to step away and who stays? I worry some people might get squeezed out if they aren't part of this six-month stint.
It’s definitely weighing on my mind.
On a brighter note, though, the team gives me hope. I think they'll do a great job filtering candidates. Even if someone makes a great pitch initially but then shows zero interest once the work starts, I trust they'll just bring someone else on board instead.

I really hope the people applying are the ones with genuine ideas and enthusiasm—people who aren't just worried about the office politics or the vibes in the breakroom when they return.

Listen, ladies, seriously—how many education reforms have we actually seen over the last 25 years? At least 25, if you ask me.

Every single administration just pushes their own little "rebrand" of the school system, and the second they lose an election, the whole thing gets tossed in the trash again.

But honestly, this feels like the first reform that actually carries some weight, especially since it isn't just being driven by political maneuvering.