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School Reform: Thoughts?

Started by Karen Richardson3 · · 👁 63 views · 1.7K replies

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Participants Karen Richardson3rowdypanther12urbantinker8Charles Murphy6wanderinggardener12Arthur Hernandez6brightheron64Terry Cooper69jadetinker85Rachel Jones8David Palmer5Benjamin Wilson4analogseal18silentraven6Jason MorganAngela Wright4Susan Jamesnimblelynx7David Jackson2Chloe Roberts2Jonathan Ortiz2Emily Gonzalez51Brandon Brooks11Susan Nguyen54 …
Linda Price5 Linda Price5 Active Member
171 messages
joined May 2013
#281 ·
Susan James said:I find it hard to say whether it works or not because I haven't personally attended those classes, so I don't know exactly what they cover.
But I certainly see people signing up. And I see them paying $833 quite a premium.
The advertisements for these courses seem to be popping up on every street corner.
And it looks like a huge number of parents believe this is an absolute necessity.
Some even take out loans if they don't have the cash on hand.
There's even advice circulating to enroll kids in "easier" high schools just so they can coast through with good grades, thinking they'll have plenty of time to catch up during the final exam prep...
On top of that, most of these programs market themselves using "15+ years of experience" (ranging from college entrance prep to SAT prep), claiming their instructors are veteran professors who simultaneously teach in public schools.
I have nothing against people making extra money, but I think it’s a bit of a hit to the entire American education system when someone uses a private course to fill the gaps left by others, or essentially charges a premium to do a job that should have been covered in class.

Personally, I am all for external evaluations.
Absolutely.
Evaluating based on professional standards, student feedback, and even "adult" follow-ups after graduation.

But my point is that a student's score on a standardized test isn't solely the result of one high school teacher's work... in fact, looking at your post, it's clear that an English score can be influenced by elementary teachers, middle school teachers, and high school teachers alike. And if there was a maternity leave or a substitute involved, who are we actually evaluating? Whose work are we measuring?
We were all students once, and we all had different teachers for the same subjects... everyone differs in their teaching style, personality, and depth of knowledge.
And that makes a massive difference.

When it comes to foreign languages, it becomes even harder to judge a teacher's effectiveness based on exam scores... some kids have been learning since preschool, they have access to TV, the internet, music, language schools, summer camps abroad, plus the mix of good and bad teachers they encounter... not to mention the child's own interest and innate talent.

So, in the grand scheme of things, the SAT results aren't a very reliable way to grade a teacher or a school.

Though, it does worry me how much focus is placed on cramming facts while children struggle to actually think critically.
Our education system feels a bit broken because kids aren't being taught how to think; they aren't even encouraged to do it.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

In general, it's difficult to isolate a single variable when dealing with something this complex. But tell me, what are the odds that students in one specific classroom consistently outperform students in another classroom, year after year, generation after generation? And it just happens by pure coincidence that one group doesn't start learning English in kindergarten, lacks access to TV or the internet, and isn't listening to Alan Nižetić, while the other group is constantly attending international camps and specialized language schools? 😁

There is another metric that speaks volumes about both the school and the instructor—what is the correlation between internal GPA and state-mandated exam results?
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#282 ·
Linda Price5 said:In general, it's difficult to isolate a single variable when dealing with something this complex. But tell me, what are the odds that students in one specific classroom consistently outperform students in another classroom, year after year, generation after generation? And it just happens by pure coincidence that one group doesn't start learning English in kindergarten, lacks access to TV or the internet, and isn't listening to Alan Nižetić, while the other group is constantly attending international camps and specialized language schools? 😁

There is another metric that speaks volumes about both the school and the instructor—what is the correlation between internal GPA and state-mandated exam results?

I really agree with this.

I feel like our entire school system misses a huge opportunity here, because these assessments could easily be done internally without any drama.
It just takes a little bit of willpower (and maybe a tiny bit of courage to not step on a colleague's toes).

To add to that, a lot of teachers across different subjects—especially in middle school—can clearly see the level of literacy they're inheriting from the elementary years. They can tell exactly where the gaps are forming. But everyone just stays quiet.

I’ve had students walk into my physics class in seventh grade who couldn't even simplify a basic fraction.
I'm talking about half the class.
And even some eighth graders.
Meanwhile, two other classes are absolutely crushing it.
But my colleagues just don't say anything.
And then we all end up concluding the kids are just "bad" or didn't learn anything, or that their parents didn't push them enough to study or get a tutor.
urbantinker8 urbantinker8 Regular
759 messages
joined Jan 2023
#283 ·
I guess I should probably start by saying that I don't really have much to add to this particular thread, though I suppose there's always a way to look at things from a different angle, if you think about it long enough. It’s funny how certain topics just sort of drift into the conversation without any real anchor, almost like how people talk about a rhinoceros—just this massive, heavy presence that doesn't quite fit into the delicate ecosystem of a standard debate, I suppose. Maybe it's just me, being overly cautious with my thoughts, but I find myself wondering if we're all just circling the same large, blunt object without actually knowing what to make of it, which is a bit of a strange way to spend an afternoon, isn't it? kaže:
It’s honestly kind of tough for me to say whether it’s actually doable or not, I guess, since I didn't make it to those training sessions myself, so I'm really not quite sure what exactly they're covering in there.
It seems like people are moving on, I guess, and getting paid for it too. $833 I suppose it’s more of an upward trend, if you want to look at it that way, though I can't say for certain.
It seems like I can't go anywhere without being bombarded by advertisements for those courses; they really are shouting at you from every single corner these days.
And then you have this whole mass of parents who seem to firmly believe that this is just the way things have to be done, I guess.
I guess they'll just end up taking out loans if they don't have the cash on hand, maybe.

It feels like people are constantly shelling out money for things they don't actually need, mostly because there's this endless, aggressive barrage of advertisements screaming at you from every single corner of the internet and the streets. I guess we're all just being bombarded by these loud, relentless commercials that seem designed to trigger an impulse buy, and maybe that's why everyone ends up spending so much on stuff that doesn't really matter.
And even then, I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean what we're paying for is actually essential, or high-quality, or even remotely worth the price tag we're being asked to shoulder.
I guess most people just don't quite grasp that, though. Maybe they see it, or maybe they don't, but I suspect a lot of folks are missing the point entirely.

I suppose there isn't much to say about a rhino, really, unless you're looking at it from a certain angle, I guess. It’s just one of those creatures that exists, sort of lumbering along with its own heavy sense of purpose, which is something I find myself contemplating more often than I probably should. Maybe it's just the way they move—that slow, deliberate weightiness—that makes me think about how things just sort of happen, whether we're ready for them or not. It’s a strange thought, I know, but sometimes you just look at something like that and realize how much space it takes up without even trying. kaže:

So, I was sitting there during seventh period physics today, and I couldn't help but notice that some of the kids walked in without having any idea how to actually simplify a fraction. It’s one of those things where you just assume they've mastered the basics by now, but I guess math skills can be a bit hit or miss depending on what they picked up in elementary school, maybe. It makes things a little more complicated than they need to be when we're trying to get through the actual curriculum.
Well, I suppose you could say it’s about half the class.
It’s all the way from first grade up.
And then you've got those other two classes just absolutely tearing the place apart, I guess.
It seems like my colleagues are all staying quiet on this one.

It’s never really that black and white, I suppose, especially when you start getting into the weeds with something like mathematics.
hiddendriver34 hiddendriver34 Regular
324 messages
joined Jan 2023
#284 ·
urbantinker8 said:
I guess I should probably start by saying that I don't really have much to add to this particular thread, though I suppose there's always a way to look at things from a different angle, if you think about it long enough. It’s funny how certain topics just sort of drift into the conversation without any real anchor, almost like how people talk about a rhinoceros—just this massive, heavy presence that doesn't quite fit into the delicate ecosystem of a standard debate, I suppose. Maybe it's just me, being overly cautious with my thoughts, but I find myself wondering if we're all just circling the same large, blunt object without actually knowing what to make of it, which is a bit of a strange way to spend an afternoon, isn't it? kaže:
It’s honestly kind of tough for me to say whether it’s actually doable or not, I guess, since I didn't make it to those training sessions myself, so I'm really not quite sure what exactly they're covering in there.
It seems like people are moving on, I guess, and getting paid for it too. $833 I suppose it’s more of an upward trend, if you want to look at it that way, though I can't say for certain.
It seems like I can't go anywhere without being bombarded by advertisements for those courses; they really are shouting at you from every single corner these days.
And then you have this whole mass of parents who seem to firmly believe that this is just the way things have to be done, I guess.
I guess they'll just end up taking out loans if they don't have the cash on hand, maybe.

It feels like people are constantly shelling out money for things they don't actually need, mostly because there's this endless, aggressive barrage of advertisements screaming at you from every single corner of the internet and the streets. I guess we're all just being bombarded by these loud, relentless commercials that seem designed to trigger an impulse buy, and maybe that's why everyone ends up spending so much on stuff that doesn't really matter.
And even then, I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean what we're paying for is actually essential, or high-quality, or even remotely worth the price tag we're being asked to shoulder.
I guess most people just don't quite grasp that, though. Maybe they see it, or maybe they don't, but I suspect a lot of folks are missing the point entirely.

I suppose there isn't much to say about a rhino, really, unless you're looking at it from a certain angle, I guess. It’s just one of those creatures that exists, sort of lumbering along with its own heavy sense of purpose, which is something I find myself contemplating more often than I probably should. Maybe it's just the way they move—that slow, deliberate weightiness—that makes me think about how things just sort of happen, whether we're ready for them or not. It’s a strange thought, I know, but sometimes you just look at something like that and realize how much space it takes up without even trying. kaže:

So, I was sitting there during seventh period physics today, and I couldn't help but notice that some of the kids walked in without having any idea how to actually simplify a fraction. It’s one of those things where you just assume they've mastered the basics by now, but I guess math skills can be a bit hit or miss depending on what they picked up in elementary school, maybe. It makes things a little more complicated than they need to be when we're trying to get through the actual curriculum.
Well, I suppose you could say it’s about half the class.
It’s all the way from first grade up.
And then you've got those other two classes just absolutely tearing the place apart, I guess.
It seems like my colleagues are all staying quiet on this one.

It’s never really that black and white, I suppose, especially when you start getting into the weeds with something like mathematics.

👍
I have a close colleague who works at one of those schools, and she swears the results from these kinds of courses are mostly just psychological. It's basically just a placebo effect where people think, "Well, I took the prep course, so now I feel ready."😁
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#285 ·
Lawrence Torres56 said:Man, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. If anything, it's the schools that teach these kids not to think for themselves, forcing them to believe that the only thing that matters is what's printed in some textbook—definitions that, half the time, have zero connection to real-world phenomena or anything actually happening around them. The curriculum they serve up to these kids is just mind-numbing and totally alienating for most of them, but hey, who cares about that, right? As long as someone's lining their pockets with textbook royalties, the job's done.🙄

Textbooks are riddled with errors; I certainly wasn't impressed by them either.

It is quite rare to encounter professors who actually demand rote memorization. If one truly grasps a concept, they can construct a definition by combining a general category with its specific distinctions. When students begin explaining things in their own words, it becomes painfully obvious who actually understands the material and who is merely struggling to recall an unfamiliar string of words.
Take geometry and physics formulas, for instance... one simply does not learn those through memorization. If you grasp the underlying principles, you sketch them out and visualize the relationships. Understanding is the difficult part; memorizing is the easy way out. 🍿

Then there is fifth grade... that sudden, jarring leap from kindergarten-level concepts to material tailored for a much older age group. The children get lost in the transition. In my own class, they started off catastrophically; supplemental tutoring was organized, yet most of the students who desperately needed it refused to attend. Consequently, the standards are lowered just to compensate. 🐔
wanderinggardener12 wanderinggardener12 Active Member
71 messages
joined Jun 2012
#286 ·
Larry Walker24 said:MINOR OFFENSES

warning penalty:

1. Disrupting class: causing chaos, being loud, talking back after being told to stop, yelling

2. Littering

3. Using your phone

4. Harassment, shoving, or throwing stuff at people

5. Gambling

SERIOUS OFFENSES

reprimand penalty:

1. Cheating using unauthorized tech (tablets, phones, etc.)

2. Belittling, insulting, or spreading lies and rumors

3. Bringing in or using drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes

4. Bringing in unauthorized people who cause damage to the school or others

5. Vandalism resulting in significant damage

SEVERE OFFENSES

strict reprimand in middle school, or a warning before expulsion in high school:

1. Inciting violence (this includes chanting about it or filming fights)

2. Falsifying reports

3. Promoting group hate speech

4. Theft, destroying official school records, or extortion (like shaking down another student for cash)

5. Bringing weapons or dangerous items onto campus

EXTREME OFFENSES

transfer to another school or outright expulsion:

1. Forging official school documents

2. Posting material

online or any other way that ruins someone's reputation, honor, or dignity

3. Grand theft—basically stealing in a dangerous or brazen way, like breaking and entering or bypassing security to get to property

4. Threatening the safety of students or staff

by using weapons or dangerous objects

5. Violent behavior

The rules haven't changed, but so many areas remain dangerously vague. For instance, if a parent and child both insist the kid wasn't actually using their phone—claiming it was just sitting under the desk or on the bench—how is a teacher supposed to prove it was actually in use? Or if a student is caught cheating during an exam, they can always just deny it ever happened. And if an incident occurs within two weeks of the end of the school year, no disciplinary measure can be issued because there simply isn't enough time left to evaluate whether the student's behavior has actually improved! There is plenty more where that came from.
And if a parent of an Elementary School student refuses to accept a transfer to another school? Well, then everyone is just stuck.
One solution would be cameras. But I wonder if teachers would actually agree to that... most probably would, but some certainly wouldn't. And what about parents during conferences? Whether in person or over the phone. And what would we do about the locker rooms near the gym, where all sorts of things go down?
The other solution: just take the teachers' word for it when they say a student said a certain profanity, rather than pretending the kid was just stuttering through a math term...
Daniel Gomez10 Daniel Gomez10 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jul 2012
#287 ·
hiddendriver34 said:It’s honestly delusional to expect some random "cram school" to get kids ready for their SATs regardless of what they actually picked up during their years in the classroom. unicorn, are you seriously suggesting a kid can make up for twelve years of missed lessons in just three months? In my book, prepping for an essay-based exam starts back in elementary school when you're first learning how to put a coherent sentence together. Anyone who thinks a student can be ready for a major national standardized test after just ninety days of intense studying probably thinks these exams are just about memorizing trivia. But that's not how it works. Take the English composition section, for example—it's designed to test critical thinking and reading comprehension, not just whether you can recite facts from memory.
What these prep courses are actually good for is reviewing material (if you weren't disciplined enough to do it yourself) or maybe filling in a few tiny gaps, but there is absolutely no way they can replace a full K-12 education.

But isn't that exactly what those prep classes are for? Does anyone actually disagree? 🤔

It’s just like the entrance exam prep we used to have back in my day.
I took a three-week intensive right before my big exam, and it was awesome.
I actually learned more physics there than I did in all four years of high school!
Plus, it helped me brush up on everything else and get focused for the big day.
Larry Walker24 Larry Walker24 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2022
#288 ·
Yesterday, the public debate wrapped up regarding the new Department of Education regulations. These rules are slated to kick in this September. The National Education Association says this new Student disciplinary code is just going to make punishing students even more of a nightmare.

The whole thing is getting bogged down in endless red tape, which basically makes the entire process a massive headache. According to Željko Stipić, the head of the Preporod Union, teachers are going to be way more hesitant to actually step in and use pedagogical measures because of all this extra paperwork. His take? We’re basically going to be faking reality—things will get worse on the ground, but the official reports will look better than ever. He backed it up with some pretty wild numbers: five years ago, there were over 55,000 pedagogical measures handed out, compared to 15,000 fewer back in 2014. And get this—back in 2009, 467 students were kicked out of schools across the US, but last year, that number dropped to just 137.

To break down how school discipline used to work versus how it’ll function once these new regulations hit, Biljana Janjatović, a teacher from a local Vocational and Industrial High School, sat down with Željko Stipić on the Morning show to hash it out:
Larry Walker24 Larry Walker24 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2022
#289 ·
California Governor Annastacia Palaszczuk just dropped a bombshell yesterday regarding a massive overhaul of the school curriculum. According to TechCrunch, they’re making coding and robotics mandatory for kids from first grade all the way through tenth.

"We have to make sure our students turn into the digital creators and innovators that will drive California's future," Annastacia Palaszczuk said. "The world is full of opportunities, and our young people need to be right in the middle of it."

Kelly Tagalan, who runs the national "coding club" program, was basically calling this move "fantastic."

"We are incredibly proud to be riding this wave alongside everyone else," she told TechCrunch. "What makes California such a standout case is that they’ve actually made computational thinking a requirement—they're setting a huge example for the rest of the country. My only regret is that we didn't get this done five or ten years ago."
Jason Ortiz5 Jason Ortiz5 Regular
325 messages
joined Mar 2025
#290 ·
I’ve been venting about this for two years now—they actually scrapped the after-school computer club at our local elementary school. My daughter's teacher basically brushed me off, telling me it was a waste of time and that she wouldn't be falling behind anyway since they start regular tech classes in fifth grade. Most of the parents I talk to at soccer practice totally agree with me; it feels like a huge step backward. My girl is only in fourth grade right now, and I know some kids in her class don't even have a computer at home, or if they do, their parents won't let them touch it because they think screens are "bad" or the kids are too young. It just doesn't sit right with me.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#291 ·
quote:
but they aren't allowed to use them. Because computers are seen as inherently evil, and they are just too naive.

"Smart parents," they say. Apparently, fourth graders are far too intellectually fragile to handle a computer on their own. They supposedly lack the maturity to filter information or the technical literacy to actually accomplish anything meaningful online; instead, they just drift through mindless video games that offer zero educational value. In my household, my child was strictly prohibited from using a computer solo at that age, unless it was specifically to Google something for a school project—and even then, we were right there monitoring her activity. Most of what she stumbled upon boiled down to horror movie trailers, low-brow jokes about blondes or some other tired trope, and the most "intellectual" thing she ever managed to find was Amy Winehouse lyrics.🙂 It would have been much better if she had spent that time reading books or perhaps rolling some dice in a tabletop game.

As for computer science in schools, it absolutely ought to be a mandatory part of the curriculum starting in first grade, supplemented by extracurricular programs for those kids who actually show an interest. Perhaps one day we will finally reach that level of foresight.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#292 ·
I'm assuming her TV shows were also banned from everything except school curricula back then?
silentraven6 silentraven6 Regular
276 messages
joined Nov 2018
#293 ·
Given that about 90 percent of American parents are basically digitally illiterate—and I mean that, they just don't know how to filter information or set screen time limits—it’s a real problem. Most of them can't even handle basic computer operations either. I think I read somewhere that over 80 percent of adults wouldn't even know how to use a keyboard if their mouse died; they have no clue how to actually give a computer commands without a cursor. Instead, they just let their kids sit in front of a screen playing mindless games or whatever junk pops up. Because of that, I am a huge advocate for teaching computer science starting in elementary school. Kids need to understand what a computer actually is, how it works, what the internet truly entails, and most importantly, how to protect themselves online. We can't ignore how widespread and dangerous cyberbullying has become, but we could prevent so much of it if we started educating them from the beginning. Let's be honest: there are kids out there who have been glued to tablets and electronic devices since they were one year old. Do people honestly think those children have any idea what they're actually doing?
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#294 ·
one truly excellent interview

Are we actually afraid of gifted students?
?
It feels like we’re instinctively wary of anyone who stands out from the crowd—whether it’s someone with a different background, skin color, or faith. We tend to teach an imaginary "average" student, but that student doesn't exist. Potential comes in endless varieties. Our education system should be designed to create an environment where young people can truly flourish. For gifted kids, we need systemic solutions: early identification, flexible learning outcomes, shifting our instructional approaches, adjusting the pace, and reimagining the classroom setting. If a student is exceptionally bright, they should have the option to work with a mentor outside of school hours. As a society, I feel we are far too insensitive to the incredible wealth of talent we possess.


This really reminded me of those discussions about brain drain and that post by Lunin.

And also this:

In Forbes, you took aim at parents who overschedule their kids with extracurriculars, didn't you?

The truth is, what we assume is best for our children often isn't. Most kids—kids from families like ours—are managed so tightly by their parents that they don't even have free time anymore. But honestly? Messing around, scrolling through a phone, reading comics, or even just staring blankly at a wall... all of that does more to develop a child than we realize. Boredom is one of the greatest catalysts for creativity. Humans aren't meant to be nothing more than productivity machines.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#295 ·
analogseal18, she isn't strictly forbidden from everything; however, I certainly won't permit her to consume garbage like mindless reality TV junk. She watches it rarely, and her screen time remains at the absolute minimum recommended by her ophthalmologist.

I am in complete agreement with mayamama—the fundamental issue lies with parents who are digitally illiterate and harbor the delusion that their child can simply curate their own content, mistakenly believing that surfing the web or playing video games constitutes actual computer literacy.
Lately, I have been encountering various articles discussing what skills American school computer science programs ought to instill in students (such as navigating the IRS website or managing a household budget in Excel, for instance), and I find myself wondering why they insist on such trivialities. While these are indeed skills a young adult will require, they represent the bare minimum of the minimum. I cannot fathom why, on one hand, we constantly praise the intelligence of our children, yet on the other, we fail to provide them with challenging tasks; instead, we seem obsessed with simplifying both curriculum and life itself, rather than teaching them how to grapple with significant problems or, more importantly, how to think.

Giftedness... that is a profound complication. On one hand, we are perpetually told there is an abundance of gifted children, yet very few actually demonstrate that potential over the long term. Those who are truly exceptional often happen to have parents or perhaps a professor who recognizes their talent and actively pushes them forward; essentially, it is merely a matter of the stars aligning by chance.

As for the argument regarding extracurricular activities, I must disagree. It is precisely within those activities that a child discovers what resonates with them, what does not, and how to strive toward personal growth rather than merely working "for a grade." Even if a child is not exceptionally gifted in a particular area, they still develop specific competencies and knowledge that will leave them superior to those who never engaged in such pursuits. Frequently, the most fulfilled individuals are those whose careers are closely tied to their hobbies and personal interests. A well-structured activity fosters imagination, creativity, self-awareness, and socialization...
For some, aimless tinkering leads to true creativity, but there are fewer and fewer children nowadays who spend their time building a makeshift carriage for a Barbie doll. Instead, free time is largely squandered through superficial scrolling on a screen. And children have plenty of time—at least during elementary school, where every educational reform seems to reduce the amount of material covered, which is clearly reflected in the constant rise of average grades for that age group.

My child is involved in more activities than anyone else I know. She is interested in everything and hasn't settled on a specialty yet. As long as her schoolwork doesn't suffer, why should I stop her?
Lawrence Torres56 Lawrence Torres56 Active Member
228 messages
joined Feb 2015
#296 ·
Susan James said:one truly excellent interview

Are we actually afraid of gifted students?
?
It feels like we’re instinctively wary of anyone who stands out from the crowd—whether it’s someone with a different background, skin color, or faith. We tend to teach an imaginary "average" student, but that student doesn't exist. Potential comes in endless varieties. Our education system should be designed to create an environment where young people can truly flourish. For gifted kids, we need systemic solutions: early identification, flexible learning outcomes, shifting our instructional approaches, adjusting the pace, and reimagining the classroom setting. If a student is exceptionally bright, they should have the option to work with a mentor outside of school hours. As a society, I feel we are far too insensitive to the incredible wealth of talent we possess.


This really reminded me of those discussions about brain drain and that post by Lunin.

And also this:

In Forbes, you took aim at parents who overschedule their kids with extracurriculars, didn't you?

The truth is, what we assume is best for our children often isn't. Most kids—kids from families like ours—are managed so tightly by their parents that they don't even have free time anymore. But honestly? Messing around, scrolling through a phone, reading comics, or even just staring blankly at a wall... all of that does more to develop a child than we realize. Boredom is one of the greatest catalysts for creativity. Humans aren't meant to be nothing more than productivity machines.

The snippets they quote sound pretty promising, right? Until you actually sit down and read the whole thing and realize it’s nothing but a massive pile of empty platitudes🤦—it honestly feels like this calculated attempt to mold kids into these compliant little drones who’ll eventually spend eight hours a day at some corporate desk just nodding along without saying a single word.

For example, we get: "Young people learn way more effectively outside the classroom. Life is the ultimate teacher... Parents structure their children's free time so tightly that they don't even have any left. "
But then, oh boy,
suddenly he's talking about a nine-year schooling track and adding yet another mandatory subject to the mix.🤣

I mean, look at our first graders today; they're lugging around backpacks that weigh over eleven pounds, which is easily more than a quarter of their total body weight (the average six-year-old is only about 43 pounds)... and now they want to dump even more on them? It's just one thing after another.

All of this just brings me back to that mess when they overhauled the nursing programs, where those kids ended up losing their shot at getting into medical school because of the "reform." All that specialized knowledge they could have been honing just goes down the drain, and then professors at the universities have to waste precious time teaching the absolute basics instead of starting from somewhere halfway decent.
Plus, five years after that rollout, places like Blue Cross Blue Shield act like you're speaking an alien language if you even mention the five-year program exists; they just stare at you like you've lost your mind.🤦
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#297 ·
I don't find you particularly well-informed on this matter.
With the transition to a nine-year K-12 system, there is a proposal to introduce a kindergarten-style preparatory year, where children undergo the necessary foundational training that is currently handled in preschool—but under a structured curriculum rather than just a "play whenever we feel like it" approach. We are talking about learning how to retell stories, counting with actual comprehension, and mastering basic penmanship. While most kids seem to have these skills down, the reality is that they don't, and the disparity in readiness among incoming first graders is staggering; those who arrive without these basics struggle immensely to grasp reading, writing, and math. One could argue this can be rectified if parents step up, but isn't it far more logical to instill these habits early on rather than burdening students with extra hours of remedial homework once school has already begun?

Regarding vocational nursing programs, the curriculum remains just as rigorous as it was under the old four-year models. Students still retain the theoretical path to medical school; they simply need to excel on their high school exit exams and pass the university entrance tests. Even now, only a select few manage to achieve that. This is because the requirements for medical school demand a much broader spectrum of knowledge than mere patient care—which is the core focus for a nurse—whereas doctors primarily require a different subset of that expertise.
Those who graduate from a specialized nursing high school do not possess some sort of "lite version" of medical knowledge, nor are they halfway to becoming physicians; furthermore, medical school professors do not waste precious lecture time re-teaching what was already covered in vocational training. Instead, they move straight into advanced coursework that requires a broad intellectual foundation and the mental stamina to process massive amounts of data into cohesive knowledge. These specific cognitive skills are cultivated in a traditional American preparatory high school if one is a high-achieving student. It is important to remember that even a top-tier student from an elite prep school does not automatically possess the capacity to survive medical school.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#298 ·
Involved parents—and preschoolers at that?

How on earth can teachers expect kids to show up to elementary school already having "prior knowledge"? How can they possibly expect parents to be out there "working with their children" at home?

It’s absurd. It’s like college professors expecting engineers to walk into class already knowing how to design complex systems.

Then, to top it all off, they demand job security and high salaries, all while lecturing everyone about the "dignity of the profession."

And regarding nursing school graduates—why is there such constant condescension toward them?

On one hand, people claim you can't find nurses without a university degree anymore, yet on the other hand, their own professional boards block them from practicing. Then hospitals refuse to hire them because they're supposedly "overstaffed," even while these same nurses are pulling grueling 12-hour shifts.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#299 ·
We have these hyper-involved parents of first graders—those who find themselves forced to bridge the gap for skills their children failed to acquire before starting school, when they absolutely should have had them, and now, unfortunately, these poor kids are tasked with catching up while simultaneously trying to master the actual curriculum expected of a six-year-old.

Indeed, there is a baseline of prerequisite knowledge required for kindergarten readiness: things like proper pencil grip, the ability to retell or describe events, basic analysis and synthesis, an understanding of number relationships up to twenty, tying shoelaces, hopping on one foot, wiping one's own nose, and coloring or drawing at an age-appropriate level...

I certainly wouldn't dismiss vocational nursing schools. On the contrary, they represent one of the few specialized paths that provide young people with the concrete, practical expertise needed to work as a nurse—a profession where you can actually secure employment here in the States—while also laying the groundwork for further pursuit of a Bachelor of Science in Nursing or other less demanding university programs.

Abroad, nurses don't necessarily hold a four-year degree right away; instead, they complete specialized vocational training. Is the knowledge gained through those programs truly equivalent to our domestic vocational nursing schools, or perhaps the associate degree programs we used to see, or even today’s professional nursing tracks? I honestly cannot say for certain. What I do know is that some nurses overseas find work as caregivers, while for others, that specific vocational schooling and subsequent clinical experience are recognized as meeting the requirements for a full nursing degree.

I certainly concur that nurses in certain hospital departments are being pushed to the brink, both by the sheer volume of their monthly hours and the overwhelming workload they carry.
Michelle Nelson4 Michelle Nelson4 Regular
544 messages
joined Jan 2024
#300 ·
I have to admit, I’m feeling a little bit bummed out that she isn't showing much interest in her laptop. It’s sitting there ready whenever she wants to use it, but lately, it’s mostly just been used for listening to her music CDs—both American and English hits—and occasionally working through some school subjects on a dedicated CD, though that usually only happens when we give her a little nudge rather than her doing it on her own.

I really need to come up with something fun to do over the holidays to get her actually using the computer for something more productive. She’s played a few games, but nothing has really stuck; she was mostly just obsessed with those Talking Tom and Angela apps. 🙄 She thought Microsoft Word was the coolest thing ever when she first learned how to type capital letters, but that novelty has worn off now. Same goes for MS Paint. She does seem to enjoy math, so maybe I should try introducing her to Excel? I actually considered picking up a sixth-grade computer science textbook, but once I read the curriculum and saw they refer to memory as "storage," I decided against it.

Honestly, kids these days have such a natural knack for gaming; they’re total little addicts! They’re definitely their parents' children—she can master any kind of GUI or input device, whether it's a mouse, a touchpad, the screen itself, or a controller, in a heartbeat. And don't even get me started on how quickly they learn commands like play, resume, continue, or cancel. 😍

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