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School Reform: Thoughts?

Started by Karen Richardson3 · · 👁 69 views · 1.7K replies

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Participants Karen Richardson3rowdypanther12urbantinker8Charles Murphy6wanderinggardener12Arthur Hernandez6brightheron64Terry Cooper69jadetinker85Rachel Jones8David Palmer5Benjamin Wilson4analogseal18silentraven6Jason MorganAngela Wright4Susan Jamesnimblelynx7David Jackson2Chloe Roberts2Jonathan Ortiz2Emily Gonzalez51Brandon Brooks11Susan Nguyen54 …
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#961 ·
The self-appointed professors on our little forum tend to measure the entire world by their own narrow yardstick, 😉 conveniently forgetting that we aren't all cut from the same cloth, nor are we all driven by the same restless intellectual curiosity.

Take these three-year vocational programs, for instance; they enroll kids who couldn't care less about general academics, and frankly, many don't even have an interest in the specific trades they've signed up for. A typical classroom in those schools looks... well, how shall I put this? You have one corner of the room descending into pure chaos, another group of slightly more civil students staring blankly at their iPhones, while the teachers simply go through the motions, trying to fulfill their duties to no avail. In the end, what happens? They just hand out passing grades just to get them through the door.

High school isn't mandatory in this country, so why on earth should we insist on forcing a standardized core curriculum upon schools that cater to such a small minority—mostly those who failed to get into the "prestigious" academies and those who wouldn't be caught dead touching a textbook if their lives depended on it? Can one truly force knowledge into a mind that has no desire to receive it?
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#962 ·
Man, this feels like a masterclass in how to create an uneducated, uninformed populace just to make them easier to control. 😁

To be fair, I'm not saying someone like a local plumber needs to write a thesis comparing the causes of WWI to WWII 😁
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#963 ·
So, what you're saying is Americans are finally educated enough to resist manipulation now, but we're just going to let future generations fall right back into the trap?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 using Reddit
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#964 ·
No, we've actually been following the instructions from that chapter for quite a while now.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#965 ·
I suppose I should probably weigh in on this—though it’s hard to know where to even begin with such a messy topic. It seems like everything is being discussed in such a rushed, superficial way lately, which is just... well, it's frustrating, to say the least. If you look at the broader context—and I think we really ought to—it isn't just about one single incident. It’s about the systemic way things are handled under current American regulations. I mean, when you consider how the Consumer Protection Act is actually applied in practice versus how it's written on paper, there's a massive, gaping hole between the two. It’s almost laughable, if it weren't so aggravating. Maybe I'm being too cynical? Perhaps. But I can't help but feel that we are constantly circling the same drain. We see these shifts in the labor market, these changes in how the average American worker is treated, and yet the response from the major institutions—think along the lines of a massive conglomerate like ExxonMobil—is always the same sort of calculated, non-committal shrug. It’s all very deliberate, I suspect. They aren't necessarily trying to break the system; they just seem perfectly content to let it drift. And don't even get me started on the social aspect of it all. There's a certain lack of accountability that permeates everything. It’s as if people have forgotten the basics of responsibility—lessons that, frankly, should have been learned in a real-world school of life rather than through whatever sanitized version of reality we're fed today. Anyway, that's just my two cents. I realize some might find my perspective a bit... intense. But I'd rather be overly cautious and thorough than jump to conclusions like everyone else seems to be doing these days. It feels like we need to slow down and actually analyze the mechanics of what's happening before we start celebrating "progress" that doesn't actually exist. kaže:
Honestly, this belongs under a whole different chapter—specifically, a guide on how to manufacture an uneducated, illiterate population just to make them easier to control. 😁
It’s actually quite the exact opposite—you don't fix an uneducated or uninformed population by shoving every random bit of trivia into a curriculum—it’s more like you’re just overwhelming them, forcing far too much information onto individuals who aren't even equipped to process it all in the first place. I guess if you try to cram everything under the sun into a single syllabus, you end up achieving nothing but confusion. I suppose we should probably address this—though I’m not entirely sure if anyone else is even thinking along these lines—but let's talk about the sheer difficulty of actually making a living in this country today. It's... well, it's exhausting. To truly "make it"—to scrape by, to sustain oneself, to survive the grind—is becoming an increasingly uphill battle. I mean, between the skyrocketing cost of living in cities like Chicago or Austin and the way the economy seems to shift under our feet every single week, just staying afloat feels like a full-time job in itself. It’s not just about working hard; it’s about navigating a system that feels designed to keep you perpetually on the edge. I guess what I'm trying to say is that "making a living" isn't the simple equation it used to be—it's a constant, grueling struggle for stability..

The right amount of appropriate instructional content—delivered in a truly effective way—is the absolute key to literacy and genuine education. I mean, it’s really that simple, though people seem to overlook it constantly.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#966 ·
It’s ridiculous. I see this argument thrown around here constantly—the idea that Americans are just uneducated morons while we’re all supposedly highly cultured intellectuals.

The reality? Americans are locked in a high-stakes economic battle with China for global dominance, while we're busy fighting for the bottom of the barrel in the European Union.

We produce trivia champions; they produce the American worker. And yet, an American working at a dealership in a beat-up Ford laughs at an American driving a Cadillac, calling them ignorant and unrefined.

An American will memorize the GDP of Uzbekistan, the flora of Madagascar, or the casualty counts of WWII, but can't tell you a single thing about the Consumer Protection Act, police authority, or their own rights under the Labor Law.
Matthew Castillo5 Matthew Castillo5 Regular
264 messages
joined Apr 2013
#967 ·
nimblelynx7 said:It’s ridiculous. I see this argument thrown around here constantly—the idea that Americans are just uneducated morons while we’re all supposedly highly cultured intellectuals.

The reality? Americans are locked in a high-stakes economic battle with China for global dominance, while we're busy fighting for the bottom of the barrel in the European Union.

We produce trivia champions; they produce the American worker. And yet, an American working at a dealership in a beat-up Ford laughs at an American driving a Cadillac, calling them ignorant and unrefined.

An American will memorize the GDP of Uzbekistan, the flora of Madagascar, or the casualty counts of WWII, but can't tell you a single thing about the Consumer Protection Act, police authority, or their own rights under the Labor Law.

That’s why we’re finally introducing this "school of life" concept—where they'll supposedly focus on stuff people actually need to know to survive. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.
nimblelynx7 nimblelynx7 Regular
336 messages
joined Jul 2016
#968 ·
Matthew Castillo5 said:That’s why we’re finally introducing this "school of life" concept—where they'll supposedly focus on stuff people actually need to know to survive. Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

And everyone just burst out laughing.
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#969 ·
I'm generally on the same page as the Secretary
Quincy:
When asked about what happens to the history, geography, and biology teachers at those specific schools, the Secretary pointed out that school schedules shouldn't be bent to accommodate individual teachers; instead, they have to prioritize what the students actually need.
The only way out might be for some of them to retrain for different roles. If we're expected to pick up the tab for that, we’re looking at a massive headache. We already have plenty of unemployed historians out there, so why should taxpayers fund their retraining? Honestly, if people wanted to teach computer science or math, they probably would have gone into those fields from the start rather than picking history...
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#970 ·
So, which other redundant tech surplus is the government going to subsidize for retraining just so they can end up footing the bill for educators who don't even have an hourly rate? 😕

One of the most glaring issues within our entire educational system—if we're being honest—is this sort of academic feudalism; it's where certain staff members view their positions, from the very moment they're hired, as some kind of fundamental human right or an untouchable—and quite often, an inherited 😬 —asset.
Robert Rodriguez9 Robert Rodriguez9 Active Member
173 messages
joined Sep 2018
#971 ·
Susan James said:I'm generally on the same page as the Secretary
Quincy:
When asked about what happens to the history, geography, and biology teachers at those specific schools, the Secretary pointed out that school schedules shouldn't be bent to accommodate individual teachers; instead, they have to prioritize what the students actually need.
The only way out might be for some of them to retrain for different roles. If we're expected to pick up the tab for that, we’re looking at a massive headache. We already have plenty of unemployed historians out there, so why should taxpayers fund their retraining? Honestly, if people wanted to teach computer science or math, they probably would have gone into those fields from the start rather than picking history...

It’s not just that they could have; most of them probably wouldn't have even survived a math or CS program, nor did they ever care for it. For some, it's just easier to grind through what they know. I can't picture these older professors who can barely use a computer acting as tech instructors, let alone teachers who aren't built for these fields being forced into retraining just to keep their jobs. It makes me worry about the actual quality of education students would receive.🙄
mistydrifter55 mistydrifter55 Active Member
137 messages
joined May 2004
#972 ·
Should history professors just retrain as retail clerks?

Over at my local Walmart, they’re totally shorthanded. Apparently, "nobody wants to work anymore." Honestly, maybe some history professor could fill a gap? I highly doubt scanning barcodes is too much heavy lifting 🍿, unless they need a degree in computer science just to figure out how the register works.
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#973 ·
If they would just invest properly in building more schools so all kids could attend in a single shift, we wouldn't be facing a teacher shortage; we'd actually have a surplus.
Susan James Susan James Veteran
1K messages
joined Jan 2023
#974 ·
mistydrifter55 said:Should history professors just retrain as retail clerks?

Over at my local Walmart, they’re totally shorthanded. Apparently, "nobody wants to work anymore." Honestly, maybe some history professor could fill a gap? I highly doubt scanning barcodes is too much heavy lifting 🍿, unless they need a degree in computer science just to figure out how the register works.

Come on, let's not get carried away here 😬

But I do think we all need to realize that no job is a guaranteed ride to retirement. We have to be ready to pivot, relocate, or move into different roles if things change
.
If we actually want an education reform that carries some weight, we should be pouring resources into vocational training and hands-on apprenticeships rather than forcing students to study subjects they already covered in middle school and probably won't care about later (@rowdypanther12, they'll end up more educated regardless, unfortunately) just to keep certain positions filled
.
One thing that bothers me is how religious education remains part of the curriculum. If we're going to honor those Vatican agreements, then let the kids who are interested choose it. But if that's the case, don't make it mandatory for those who aren't by tying it to Ethics requirements, especially if our goal is to lighten the students' course loads
. Also, it wasn't fair that teachers weren't told this upfront (though the whole situation feels a bit murky to me), and it wouldn't be right to charge them for retraining out of our own pockets (though that could happen)
.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#975 ·
Anyone who ever bothered to study history knew there was a massive risk of ending up completely sidelined from their field upon graduation. I faced the exact same reality after finishing my degree in economics. When my first job fell through—and let me tell you, it was a dead-end role—no one came knocking to invent a new career path for me, nor did anyone offer to foot the bill for retraining. I had to navigate that wreckage entirely on my own. 🍿

Now, don't get me wrong; I am not inherently opposed to the idea of the federal government subsidizing retraining programs for those whose current skill sets have become redundant, provided we simultaneously slash enrollment quotas to the absolute bare minimum.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#976 ·
rowdypanther12 said:If they would just invest properly in building more schools so all kids could attend in a single shift, we wouldn't be facing a teacher shortage; we'd actually have a surplus.

Could you please enlighten me—just for my own edification—as to how having the exact same number of students following an identical curriculum would somehow increase the demand for teachers, simply because everyone happens to be in the classroom at the same time in the morning???
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#977 ·
It’s actually pretty straightforward. While the total number of kids might be similar, they’re spread out across much smaller class sizes in a lot more schools.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#978 ·
If we transition to much smaller class sizes, how on earth is a history professor supposed to maintain their required teaching hours? And more importantly, who exactly is going to be standing at the front of those massive lecture halls teaching math and physics?
rowdypanther12 rowdypanther12 Regular
894 messages
joined Jul 2012
#979 ·
Class sizes should be reduced more for the students' sake than the teachers' 😂
If we had about 15 kids per room instead of 35, the quality of learning would be so much better.
analogseal18 analogseal18 Active Member
75 messages
joined Nov 2018
#980 ·
Where on earth are these classes of thirty-five students hiding? When my daughter was navigating elementary school, her classes were limited to about seventeen kids, and even by the time she hit high school, we were looking at maybe twenty-four per room.
Furthermore, one must wonder what kind of educational standard can truly be achieved when you lack access to an authentic, high-caliber professor.

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