What are the results of your spiritual journey?

Benjamin Taylor6 said:If my boss hears you talking like that, he'll probably call you into the office at Goldman Sachs just to have you work for him. And naturally, it'll be unpaid—because apparently, a true spiritual seeker doesn't give a damn about money.

This is exactly what I'm looking for:

Then go ahead and join this crowd: http://www.nytimes.com/section/opinion

Speaking of bosses, let's be real—you have to put in some serious sweat equity to actually succeed in any career. And honestly, why would spirituality be any different?
Just skimming a few books here and there, chatting about it, or dropping a post on a forum... that's just not enough.
You can't really expect any massive breakthroughs from doing the bare minimum. Someone mentioned initiation in another thread, and now we're talking—that's actual work.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:If my boss hears you talking like that, he'll probably call you into the office at Goldman Sachs just to have you work for him. And naturally, it'll be unpaid—because apparently, a true spiritual seeker doesn't give a damn about money.

This is exactly what I'm looking for:

Then go ahead and join this crowd: http://www.nytimes.com/section/opinion

Living like that requires some serious groundwork; otherwise, you might end up doing more harm than good.
You have to gradually get used to being alone and slowly start dialing back those worldly passions.

mistygull16 said:I feel like, first off, we just gotta be honest with ourselves. Only then can we even talk about being truly good people. 🤷

Or, even better... maybe we should start noticing how we react to things, and then figure out the weird little subconscious gears that drive those reactions in the first place.

Oh, for sure—without being honest with yourself, you've got nothing. And you can't get honest without some serious self-discovery, right? But let's be real: self-discovery doesn't just happen; it requires actual work. And that kind of work? It takes grit and sacrifice. This is where I feel like we're hitting a wall, because I see a lot of people on this forum thinking they can just "level up" spiritually by reading a few books or getting into deep debates online. And when someone mentions "working on yourself," most people just think about sitting on a therapist's couch. Honestly? That's not enough!
We could spend twenty years over-analyzing every little reaction we have and still end up nowhere if we don't take some real, heavy-duty action. I'm talking about the stuff spiritual leaders have been doing throughout history—fasting, prayer, enduring the cold, sleep deprivation, and all that other intense discipline.

Ryan Rogers5 said:Oh, for sure—without being honest with yourself, you've got nothing. And you can't get honest without some serious self-discovery, right? But let's be real: self-discovery doesn't just happen; it requires actual work. And that kind of work? It takes grit and sacrifice. This is where I feel like we're hitting a wall, because I see a lot of people on this forum thinking they can just "level up" spiritually by reading a few books or getting into deep debates online. And when someone mentions "working on yourself," most people just think about sitting on a therapist's couch. Honestly? That's not enough!
We could spend twenty years over-analyzing every little reaction we have and still end up nowhere if we don't take some real, heavy-duty action. I'm talking about the stuff spiritual leaders have been doing throughout history—fasting, prayer, enduring the cold, sleep deprivation, and all that other intense discipline.

Sleep is actually a basic requirement for spiritual growth. 🙂

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Lovecraftian Mythos!

Ryan Gomez4 said:Sleep is actually a basic requirement for spiritual growth. 🙂

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Lovecraftian Mythos!

And honestly? Taking things way too literally is just a fast track to being totally delusional.
I wasn't suggesting people shouldn't sleep at all—or when I write a post, I’m not saying you should skip meals entirely, right?
It's more about cutting back to just what's necessary.
p.s. Personally, I find it pretty weird when I see some out-of-shape preacher.
How can someone even try to teach others if they can't seem to practice what they preach themselves?

I'm all for eating less—it’s better for your health anyway—but I don't buy the idea that giving things up automatically makes you some kind of spiritual guru.

I find myself nodding along with the others regarding the themes of self-delusion and sheer ignorance; if there is any meaningful takeaway here, that is truly it. All those other supposed side effects—the sense of relaxation, those fleeting "feel-good" rushes, or that naive brand of optimism and ambition—they all tend to evaporate once a person actually matures. In my own experience, chasing lofty goals and getting swept up in idealistic fervor only served to breed neurosis within me, creating this obsessive hyper-focus on "higher planes" and "deeper insights." If I’m being honest with myself, it was little more than an escapist compensation for a lack of social standing, a certain passivity, and a deep-seated existential dread.

The only other positive outcome I can recall, now that I think about it, is a reduction in reactivity—developing somewhat healthier patterns of thought, belief, and behavior. Regarding selfishness, one could argue that the fundamental ideal of spirituality should be the diminishment of self-absorption, egocentrism, and constant self-referencing. Yet, looking around, it seems this is precisely what many practitioners fail to achieve. For me, this shift only began to manifest once I abandoned the illusions and self-deceptions surrounding the supernatural, the unreachable, and the purely imaginary. It happened when I started balancing the application of reason with the practice of letting go of attachments. However, no matter how much I meditate or attempt to release these grips, I remain a human being unable to fully override my own nature—that primal instinct for self-preservation which keeps us all essentially trapped within our own subjective perspectives. That said, I do believe this attachment can be loosened, and that is the work I am currently engaged in. To even attempt this, I had to discard the vast majority of my previous convictions. It was only after I embraced atheism that I actually began to practice true spirituality. 🙂

Daniel Castillo11

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit.

First, you claim: "...this started happening to me once I let go of all those illusions and self-deceptions regarding the supernatural..."

Only to follow that up by saying: "...but no matter how much I let go or reflect, I am still just a man who cannot break his own nature..."

If you’ve truly cast aside the illusion of the supernatural, shouldn't you have already accepted that you are simply a man incapable of defying his own nature?

Once we strip away the supernatural, all that remains is the human being as a biological entity—a product of nature and evolution, much like a lion is a product of nature and evolution. In that framework, a person's nature is their essence, and there is simply no way to break it.

Scott Miller4 said:I don't really buy into that anymore, to be honest. I guess you can't have a sacrifice without some kind of expectation attached to it; if you try to claim otherwise, it just feels like madness. Most people who act like they're sacrificing something are actually just looking for a payout, which is pretty much standard behavior in everyday life. It’s all about self-interest, really. :nezna:
Personally, I think it's all a bit pointless.

Look, I think the core issue is exactly that—the expectation part. It's much smarter to just make your choices and live by them, period, without obsessing over specific outcomes or wallowing in regret when things don't go your way. That's where you draw the line between intentional action and mere desire—and desire is usually where all that unnecessary suffering starts creeping in.

As for self-interest... well, that would be doing something you don't actually want to do just to snag something you do want. I don't necessarily see that as a "bad" choice, just a different one. Personally, I'd much rather act on what I genuinely want in the moment. Like, if I want to do something kind, I do it because it feels right, not because I'm looking for some kickback later.

Ryan Rogers5 said:Oh, for sure—without being honest with yourself, you've got nothing. And you can't get honest without some serious self-discovery, right? But let's be real: self-discovery doesn't just happen; it requires actual work. And that kind of work? It takes grit and sacrifice. This is where I feel like we're hitting a wall, because I see a lot of people on this forum thinking they can just "level up" spiritually by reading a few books or getting into deep debates online. And when someone mentions "working on yourself," most people just think about sitting on a therapist's couch. Honestly? That's not enough!
We could spend twenty years over-analyzing every little reaction we have and still end up nowhere if we don't take some real, heavy-duty action. I'm talking about the stuff spiritual leaders have been doing throughout history—fasting, prayer, enduring the cold, sleep deprivation, and all that other intense discipline.

Balance is everything here—just like in anything else. You have to observe, learn, choose, act, and then teach. It’s all a continuous loop that allows you to actually move forward.

Ryan Rogers5 said:And honestly? Taking things way too literally is just a fast track to being totally delusional.
I wasn't suggesting people shouldn't sleep at all—or when I write a post, I’m not saying you should skip meals entirely, right?
It's more about cutting back to just what's necessary.
p.s. Personally, I find it pretty weird when I see some out-of-shape preacher.
How can someone even try to teach others if they can't seem to practice what they preach themselves?

I generally agree with you, but hey, watch out with those kinds of generalizations. Just because you understand the motives behind why most people gain weight doesn't mean you know what's going on with any specific individual. In other words, someone could be living perfectly in alignment with their teachings but dealing with a physical condition that makes them overweight. Or, though it's rare, there are people who consciously choose their body type.

I’ve become a better person. I’m more tolerant, more compassionate, and more well-intentioned—and I don’t even have to try to change my mindset; these qualities have just naturally surfaced in how I act and live my life.

I’ve definitely grown up, which comes with age, but I’ve also become much sharper. That’s purely the result of my spiritual dedication. It’s helped me cut down on mental fatigue and boosted my ability to observe things clearly because I maintain a steady emotional state. My thinking isn't weighed down by heavy emotions anymore. Most of those frustrations caused by sudden shifts in circumstances have vanished. Things feel incomparably clearer now, and because of that, interacting with others doesn't trigger those old, damaging reactions.

I feel fulfilled. I’m experiencing a genuine sense of joy and satisfaction in living, finally free from that useless internal baggage—all that old negativity toward myself, toward others, or toward specific situations. Even those old habits of saying, "I don't want to do this," or "I hate doing that..." are gone.

To give you some context, years ago—the complete opposite of where I am today—I was deeply unhappy and anxious. I hit a breaking point where my entire system and personality collapsed. I suffered a severe psychotic break and ended up hospitalized several times at a psychiatric facility in New York City. As a result, I actually sustained permanent brain tissue damage in a certain area because I couldn't sleep for nearly a month straight, fueled by the destructive thoughts of deep, anxious depression. A few years before that, I had started practicing certain things as a total amateur—just a hobby, a way to pass the time—but after everything I went through, I began approaching these practices with much more seriousness.

Those frequent bouts of nervousness and resistance—the kind that seem to come out of nowhere but feel "normal" to most people—have mostly disappeared. They happen incredibly rarely for me now, especially over the last two years.

Instead, I’ve found a stable, good mood and a sense of harmony. It’s a state of being that I can actually use to contribute positively to the world around me.

I don't believe you can spend twenty years working on yourself without seeing results that lead to personal harmony. If that doesn't happen, then it isn't true spiritual development; something is fundamentally wrong if someone spends years "developing" without any change. When a person becomes a harmonious individual—meaning their way of thinking is sound and naturally prevents them from emitting harmful, negative thoughts or emotions—it’s because they’ve faced the classic struggles of the human condition. They didn't just ignore them; they looked at them, cleared the blockages, and moved past them. This isn't just for their own sake, either. And no, this doesn't mean they are "delusional" or "living in a fantasy land." It’s actually the opposite. People who "live in a fantasy land" are just being dishonest with themselves, trying to make the rug look clean while ignoring all the mess piled up underneath. Ignoring that mess is what creates real problems.

There’s nothing "supernatural" about the manifestations of the spirit, if that’s how you want to view it. It’s entirely natural. Behind the scenes, it’s all connected to your aura, your thought patterns, your stress levels, and your energy. It’s about spiritual knowledge and actually applying it. Spiritual knowledge is inherently tied to the axioms of a Presence that we are all a part of. Calling it supernatural is just a misunderstanding by people who want to pursue spirituality without the actual depth of it (which is essentially personal psychology). Unfortunately, when you skip that, progress is painfully slow. You could spend twenty years working on yourself and realize you haven't actually improved much. You haven't cleared away the flaws that inevitably get in the way of a person's natural virtues. Flaws are just ballast; they obstruct our true nature. And when a human being's nature is freed from that weight, harmony is the inevitable result.

Ryan Rogers5 said:And honestly? Taking things way too literally is just a fast track to being totally delusional.
I wasn't suggesting people shouldn't sleep at all—or when I write a post, I’m not saying you should skip meals entirely, right?
It's more about cutting back to just what's necessary.
p.s. Personally, I find it pretty weird when I see some out-of-shape preacher.
How can someone even try to teach others if they can't seem to practice what they preach themselves?

Sri Chinmoy, as one of the greatest modern Gurus, was actually quite heavy during his last fifteen years. Does that mean we should assume a 70-year-old man—even one who has reached the absolute peak of spiritual leadership as a Sadguru—is somehow "lesser" just because he carries extra weight?

Honestly, that wouldn't even be a spiritual perspective; it would just be a personal bias. Asceticism isn't everything. Serving humanity matters way more than maintaining a certain physique or catering to psychological prejudices. Now, if you had a fitness instructor preaching veganism while weighing 220 pounds, that would be a totally different story.

I think I found myself hidden somewhere in these lines:

I live within circles that expand,
longing to encompass more with every turn.
I might never reach that final,
ultimate ring, but I’m giving it my all.

I circle and circle around God,
that ancient tower, for thousands of years,
and I still don't know if I am the falcon or the whirlwind,
or perhaps just a great song of this world.

(Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Robert Frost)

So... I live in expanding circles...🙂🙂🙂
Man, I am stuck in a total loop!

wearyowl29 said:I think I found myself hidden somewhere in these lines:

I live within circles that expand,
longing to encompass more with every turn.
I might never reach that final,
ultimate ring, but I’m giving it my all.

I circle and circle around God,
that ancient tower, for thousands of years,
and I still don't know if I am the falcon or the whirlwind,
or perhaps just a great song of this world.

(Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Robert Frost)

So... I live in expanding circles...🙂🙂🙂
Man, I am stuck in a total loop!

Everything in nature reflects our own human traits. If you really look at the world around you, you'll find yourself reflected somewhere in it... rapidbear65, the greatest thinker of the 21st century... ;-)! What do I love? Everything!

rapidbear65 said:Everything in nature reflects our own human traits. If you really look at the world around you, you'll find yourself reflected somewhere in it... rapidbear65, the greatest thinker of the 21st century... ;-)! What do I love? Everything!

Bravo. Practical advice. Thank you, rapidbear65!

mistygull16 said:I feel like, first off, we just gotta be honest with ourselves. Only then can we even talk about being truly good people. 🤷

Or, even better... maybe we should start noticing how we react to things, and then figure out the weird little subconscious gears that drive those reactions in the first place.

Could we have a bit more explanation regarding the simplicity hidden between these points and parallels 🙂?

coastalskipper92 said:Bravo. Practical advice. Thank you, rapidbear65!

Could we have a bit more explanation regarding the simplicity hidden between these points and parallels 🙂?

Basically, we’ve gotta look at whether our tendency to play judge and jury is just a byproduct of our own deep-seated complexes and old wounds...

Just trying to deny everything doesn't really get us anywhere—it's like trying to clean a dirty shirt by just staring at the stain. It’s much more important to actually grasp how our own minds work. That’s how you stop running on autopilot. Meditation is the key there; it’s basically just turning the lights on in those dark corners of the mind.

wearyowl29 said:I think I found myself hidden somewhere in these lines:

I live within circles that expand,
longing to encompass more with every turn.
I might never reach that final,
ultimate ring, but I’m giving it my all.

I circle and circle around God,
that ancient tower, for thousands of years,
and I still don't know if I am the falcon or the whirlwind,
or perhaps just a great song of this world.

(Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Robert Frost)

So... I live in expanding circles...🙂🙂🙂
Man, I am stuck in a total loop!

Expanding circles?

It really ought to be circles that contract. That with every revolution around God, you get closer to Him.
Not further away.

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Expanding circles?

It really ought to be circles that contract. That with every revolution around God, you get closer to Him.
Not further away.

Ought to not so much?

One thing I know for certain, one thing I've realized: the more you strive to be close to God, the further away He seems to become.

I occasionally feel as though I am brushing against another dimension entirely. If only I could trigger those encounters more intensely, precisely when I choose to.

As for everything else, I find myself becoming a harder, colder person. My faith in humanity has eroded; I’ve become less tolerant, less soft, and far less inclined toward spiritual philosophizing. Nothing in this life is inherently "meant to be"—it is simply what we force it to become. I have grown deeply skeptical of most spiritual practices and movements, as I am convinced most of them operate solely through the placebo effect, mere delusion, or fear—some sort of hardwired psychological mechanism within the brain.

To most self-proclaimed spiritualists, I would simply suggest seeing a licensed psychologist instead. It would save them both time and money, given that the results are functionally identical to anything promised by "spiritual growth."

Wisdom, tolerance, and knowledge are ultimately futile when the world is governed by the law of the jungle.

The only real path to change lies in the physical evolution of the human race into something else entirely—a being liberated from the primal urges of greed, reproduction, and mindless hedonism. Those who claim to have transcended these instincts likely just lack the resources to indulge them, relying on self-delusion or autohypnosis to elevate themselves above the harsh realities of this world. And when all is said and done, people always fall back on the concept of reincarnation just to justify the injustices they've faced.

wearyowl29 said:I think I found myself hidden somewhere in these lines:

I live within circles that expand,
longing to encompass more with every turn.
I might never reach that final,
ultimate ring, but I’m giving it my all.

I circle and circle around God,
that ancient tower, for thousands of years,
and I still don't know if I am the falcon or the whirlwind,
or perhaps just a great song of this world.

(Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Robert Frost)

So... I live in expanding circles...🙂🙂🙂
Man, I am stuck in a total loop!

🙂

Nothing more to say. 🙂

The results from my spiritual practice have been absolutely wild. I’ve already crushed my goals for the year by 120%. 🙏

Ryan Wilson2 said:I occasionally feel as though I am brushing against another dimension entirely. If only I could trigger those encounters more intensely, precisely when I choose to.

As for everything else, I find myself becoming a harder, colder person. My faith in humanity has eroded; I’ve become less tolerant, less soft, and far less inclined toward spiritual philosophizing. Nothing in this life is inherently "meant to be"—it is simply what we force it to become. I have grown deeply skeptical of most spiritual practices and movements, as I am convinced most of them operate solely through the placebo effect, mere delusion, or fear—some sort of hardwired psychological mechanism within the brain.

To most self-proclaimed spiritualists, I would simply suggest seeing a licensed psychologist instead. It would save them both time and money, given that the results are functionally identical to anything promised by "spiritual growth."

Wisdom, tolerance, and knowledge are ultimately futile when the world is governed by the law of the jungle.

The only real path to change lies in the physical evolution of the human race into something else entirely—a being liberated from the primal urges of greed, reproduction, and mindless hedonism. Those who claim to have transcended these instincts likely just lack the resources to indulge them, relying on self-delusion or autohypnosis to elevate themselves above the harsh realities of this world. And when all is said and done, people always fall back on the concept of reincarnation just to justify the injustices they've faced.

🙂 😛

Yes! Thank you, God, for ensuring I am no longer alone in this "dark night of the soul."🙂
The results are tangible, at long last.

Ryan Wilson2 said:I occasionally feel as though I am brushing against another dimension entirely. If only I could trigger those encounters more intensely, precisely when I choose to.

As for everything else, I find myself becoming a harder, colder person. My faith in humanity has eroded; I’ve become less tolerant, less soft, and far less inclined toward spiritual philosophizing. Nothing in this life is inherently "meant to be"—it is simply what we force it to become. I have grown deeply skeptical of most spiritual practices and movements, as I am convinced most of them operate solely through the placebo effect, mere delusion, or fear—some sort of hardwired psychological mechanism within the brain.

To most self-proclaimed spiritualists, I would simply suggest seeing a licensed psychologist instead. It would save them both time and money, given that the results are functionally identical to anything promised by "spiritual growth."

Wisdom, tolerance, and knowledge are ultimately futile when the world is governed by the law of the jungle.

The only real path to change lies in the physical evolution of the human race into something else entirely—a being liberated from the primal urges of greed, reproduction, and mindless hedonism. Those who claim to have transcended these instincts likely just lack the resources to indulge them, relying on self-delusion or autohypnosis to elevate themselves above the harsh realities of this world. And when all is said and done, people always fall back on the concept of reincarnation just to justify the injustices they've faced.

Physical—in what sense do you mean that?