Conservative plan to tackle the crisis

I wanted to see what everyone here thinks about a potential economic shift in the US.

In my opinion, the biggest issue in America is the massive shadow economy and all the off-the-books work happening everywhere. There’s no point in debating how to squeeze more cash out of people to fund a bloated government bureaucracy when nobody actually wants to pay their utility bills—most people just try to dodge them at the first opportunity.

That makes me wonder: wouldn't it be smarter if the government just said, "We'll only charge you for what we can guarantee we'll collect, but in exchange, don't expect anything for free"?

Imagine setting sales tax like in California at 7%, but if you get caught dodging it, you go straight to jail. Then, instead of trying to pull money from various service fees and utilities, you just handle your own expenses directly.

Why should the state collect money that citizens clearly feel they don't owe, just to provide healthcare and education? Wouldn't it be simpler if the government stopped collecting funds that people are unwilling to give, and instead let citizens pay for everything themselves?

For example: fine, you don't want to pay $200 in fees that fund public healthcare... okay, you don't have to pay me that $200, but you'll have to pay it directly to a private insurance provider if you want medical coverage.

What are your thoughts?

Since there seems to be a lack of civic duty regarding taxes, isn't it better to just force a "every man for himself" mentality?

If you don't want to pay $300 toward your child's schooling, no problem. I won't ask for it, but you'll have to find the money to pay the school yourself.

Simple.☕

Look, man, let's be real—mafia wouldn't even exist in any country if they didn't have some serious ties to the government. The whole shadow economy is basically fueled by politicians running protection rackets; they’re the ones keeping the whole damn thing breathing. You see those guys selling cigarettes out of their trunks at a flea market? They might spend a few seasons in jail or deal with some probation, but you can bet your life they'll be right back at it doing the exact same thing once they're out.

William Brown4 said:I wanted to see what everyone here thinks about a potential economic shift in the US.

In my opinion, the biggest issue in America is the massive shadow economy and all the off-the-books work happening everywhere. There’s no point in debating how to squeeze more cash out of people to fund a bloated government bureaucracy when nobody actually wants to pay their utility bills—most people just try to dodge them at the first opportunity.

That makes me wonder: wouldn't it be smarter if the government just said, "We'll only charge you for what we can guarantee we'll collect, but in exchange, don't expect anything for free"?

Imagine setting sales tax like in California at 7%, but if you get caught dodging it, you go straight to jail. Then, instead of trying to pull money from various service fees and utilities, you just handle your own expenses directly.

Why should the state collect money that citizens clearly feel they don't owe, just to provide healthcare and education? Wouldn't it be simpler if the government stopped collecting funds that people are unwilling to give, and instead let citizens pay for everything themselves?

For example: fine, you don't want to pay $200 in fees that fund public healthcare... okay, you don't have to pay me that $200, but you'll have to pay it directly to a private insurance provider if you want medical coverage.

What are your thoughts?

Since there seems to be a lack of civic duty regarding taxes, isn't it better to just force a "every man for himself" mentality?

If you don't want to pay $300 toward your child's schooling, no problem. I won't ask for it, but you'll have to find the money to pay the school yourself.

Simple.☕

Side note: anyone who decides to pack up and move abroad should probably pay back every cent the government spent on their education.☕

David Vaughn75 said:Look, man, let's be real—mafia wouldn't even exist in any country if they didn't have some serious ties to the government. The whole shadow economy is basically fueled by politicians running protection rackets; they’re the ones keeping the whole damn thing breathing. You see those guys selling cigarettes out of their trunks at a flea market? They might spend a few seasons in jail or deal with some probation, but you can bet your life they'll be right back at it doing the exact same thing once they're out.

Side note: anyone who decides to pack up and move abroad should probably pay back every cent the government spent on their education.☕

I was educated in Italy, so this whole debate doesn't really apply to me.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, man, let's be real—mafia wouldn't even exist in any country if they didn't have some serious ties to the government. The whole shadow economy is basically fueled by politicians running protection rackets; they’re the ones keeping the whole damn thing breathing. You see those guys selling cigarettes out of their trunks at a flea market? They might spend a few seasons in jail or deal with some probation, but you can bet your life they'll be right back at it doing the exact same thing once they're out.

Side note: anyone who decides to pack up and move abroad should probably pay back every cent the government spent on their education.☕

😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Need some more emojis? Honestly, everyone should just leave. Even the people who signed those fancy contracts. The government ought to sue them in a different country—somewhere that actually respects the rule of law. Those little agreements will fall apart like a house of cards once they get there.☕

granitefalcon26 said:😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Need some more emojis? Honestly, everyone should just leave. Even the people who signed those fancy contracts. The government ought to sue them in a different country—somewhere that actually respects the rule of law. Those little agreements will fall apart like a house of cards once they get there.☕

The only way you're getting a response from me is if you start by apologizing for being such a jerk. Until then, you can just talk to your hand. 👋

granitefalcon26 said:😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Need some more emojis? Honestly, everyone should just leave. Even the people who signed those fancy contracts. The government ought to sue them in a different country—somewhere that actually respects the rule of law. Those little agreements will fall apart like a house of cards once they get there.☕

David Vaughn75 seems to have forgotten what things actually cost, even for people who studied in America. No one owes the government anything back; we already pay massive taxes to cover our education and healthcare. Every working American isn't getting "free" medical care—they're paying for it through heavy taxation. That's the whole catch.

Let's stop acting like the state is handing us gifts. We get exactly what we pay for. We pay a lot, so we expect a lot.

To be honest, I feel like the government owes me compensation for all those years wasted in such a corrupt and dysfunctional education system, rather than the other way around.

William Brown4 said:I wanted to see what everyone here thinks about a potential economic shift in the US.

In my opinion, the biggest issue in America is the massive shadow economy and all the off-the-books work happening everywhere. There’s no point in debating how to squeeze more cash out of people to fund a bloated government bureaucracy when nobody actually wants to pay their utility bills—most people just try to dodge them at the first opportunity.

That makes me wonder: wouldn't it be smarter if the government just said, "We'll only charge you for what we can guarantee we'll collect, but in exchange, don't expect anything for free"?

Imagine setting sales tax like in California at 7%, but if you get caught dodging it, you go straight to jail. Then, instead of trying to pull money from various service fees and utilities, you just handle your own expenses directly.

Why should the state collect money that citizens clearly feel they don't owe, just to provide healthcare and education? Wouldn't it be simpler if the government stopped collecting funds that people are unwilling to give, and instead let citizens pay for everything themselves?

For example: fine, you don't want to pay $200 in fees that fund public healthcare... okay, you don't have to pay me that $200, but you'll have to pay it directly to a private insurance provider if you want medical coverage.

What are your thoughts?

Since there seems to be a lack of civic duty regarding taxes, isn't it better to just force a "every man for himself" mentality?

If you don't want to pay $300 toward your child's schooling, no problem. I won't ask for it, but you'll have to find the money to pay the school yourself.

Simple.☕

The government is basically an EVIL force for workers, hard workers, and entrepreneurs. It straight-up ROBS those people to fill up its coffers, only to redistribute that cash toward social programs, pensions, and its own people in the public sector.

A system like this is an EVIL entity and an ENEMY to anyone actually trying to make something of themselves. And I mean "make it" through fair play, like you see in real capitalist countries.

Basically, the state is snatching wealth from those who produce it just to hand it out to loafers and slackers who get a monthly stipend (social security, pensions, etc.) and free healthcare. These loafers and slackers are our dear fellow citizens, and let's be honest, everyone has a few in their neighborhood.

So, our beloved government maintains "social peace" by robbing the capable and handing it to the incapable, irresponsible fools and idlers, all while calling itself a "social state." 🤣 🤣 🤣

And as for that idea someone mentioned about paying back tuition if you move abroad... honestly, I can't help but laugh. MY PARENTS paid for my education through massive taxes they've paid their whole lives—they overpaid and settled the bill at least three times over! That goes for both me and my sister.
As far as I'm concerned, this country gave me a big fat ZERO. Everyone should just drop these ridiculous ideas. Ugh...

Nicole James said:To be honest, I feel like the government owes me compensation for all those years wasted in such a corrupt and dysfunctional education system, rather than the other way around.

I'm in. Count me in! 👍 Here we go again. I really shouldn't be bringing this up yet, but I can't help myself—I’m still stuck on the fact that department heads are being chosen based on their political loyalty rather than their actual scientific contributions. It's frustrating.☕

velvetskipper19 said:The government is basically an EVIL force for workers, hard workers, and entrepreneurs. It straight-up ROBS those people to fill up its coffers, only to redistribute that cash toward social programs, pensions, and its own people in the public sector.

A system like this is an EVIL entity and an ENEMY to anyone actually trying to make something of themselves. And I mean "make it" through fair play, like you see in real capitalist countries.

Basically, the state is snatching wealth from those who produce it just to hand it out to loafers and slackers who get a monthly stipend (social security, pensions, etc.) and free healthcare. These loafers and slackers are our dear fellow citizens, and let's be honest, everyone has a few in their neighborhood.

So, our beloved government maintains "social peace" by robbing the capable and handing it to the incapable, irresponsible fools and idlers, all while calling itself a "social state." 🤣 🤣 🤣

And as for that idea someone mentioned about paying back tuition if you move abroad... honestly, I can't help but laugh. MY PARENTS paid for my education through massive taxes they've paid their whole lives—they overpaid and settled the bill at least three times over! That goes for both me and my sister.
As far as I'm concerned, this country gave me a big fat ZERO. Everyone should just drop these ridiculous ideas. Ugh...

If I’m being purely subjective and looking at the ratio, it’s about 3:1.
They take 3 from me, and in exchange for my supposed "rights"—like "free" healthcare (what a lie) or a pension I won't even live to see—they give back 1.
The other 2 just vanish into thin air, heaven knows where or how.

@Ego Quote

In fact, I think the state actually owes me compensation for the years wasted in a corrupt and dysfunctional education system rather than the other way around.

I second that.

By the way, I’m right there with velvetskipper19 on this one. The government is essentially an engine of dysfunction. Life was significantly more straightforward for honest, hardworking people before the state started meddling in everything—whether it’s forcing mandatory schooling on kids, imposing health insurance mandates, or all that nonsense regarding labor regulations and similar bureaucratic headaches.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, man, let's be real—mafia wouldn't even exist in any country if they didn't have some serious ties to the government. The whole shadow economy is basically fueled by politicians running protection rackets; they’re the ones keeping the whole damn thing breathing. You see those guys selling cigarettes out of their trunks at a flea market? They might spend a few seasons in jail or deal with some probation, but you can bet your life they'll be right back at it doing the exact same thing once they're out.

Side note: anyone who decides to pack up and move abroad should probably pay back every cent the government spent on their education.☕

And there it is. That classic socialist mindset in full swing: "The state provided it."

What state? The state doesn't just have its own pile of cash sitting around. It’s all just taxpayer money from citizens and corporations that the government redistributed. So, when someone leaves for a job in Europe or wherever, it wasn't some magical gift. Their parents already paid for that education through taxes—along with every other tax they've busted their backs to pay their whole lives. The money just went through the Department of Education instead of directly to the tuition bill.

What has the welfare state actually given us? In my experience, nothing—if anything, it’s just stripped away what people worked hard to build. Now, thanks to all that seizure of private property, you can't even get justice through the courts. They've turned major cities like Chicago, Houston, and Phoenix into nothing more than sprawling bedroom communities—concrete cages where people are packed in after their assets were taken. They take resources from healthy, productive citizens just to fund endless treatments for addicts, alcoholics, and people who live completely hedonistic lifestyles (not to mention the lobbyists pushing to legalize drugs). On top of that, they refuse to recognize certain marriages or allow adoption rights, only to eventually seize everything anyway to fund social programs for kids who end up getting into fights in public parks. And they call this a "fair" society? ☕

William Brown4 said:David Vaughn75 seems to have forgotten what things actually cost, even for people who studied in America. No one owes the government anything back; we already pay massive taxes to cover our education and healthcare. Every working American isn't getting "free" medical care—they're paying for it through heavy taxation. That's the whole catch.

Let's stop acting like the state is handing us gifts. We get exactly what we pay for. We pay a lot, so we expect a lot.

I mean, it's not really a "gift," but let's be real—some things are just way too expensive for most people to handle on their own.
That's kind of why those systems rely on a certain level of social safety nets and solidarity, right?

gentlesailor17 said:I mean, it's not really a "gift," but let's be real—some things are just way too expensive for most people to handle on their own.
That's kind of why those systems rely on a certain level of social safety nets and solidarity, right?

It's just like insurance—that's exactly why it exists. Someone pays into a policy and might never use it in their entire life, effectively paying for a neighbor whose house burned down.☕

William Brown4 said:It's just like insurance—that's exactly why it exists. Someone pays into a policy and might never use it in their entire life, effectively paying for a neighbor whose house burned down.☕

Then you've got those policies that only cover a tiny slice of the pie. If things actually go sideways, you'll end up having to put everything you own on the line just to stay afloat.

gentlesailor17 said:Then you've got those policies that only cover a tiny slice of the pie. If things actually go sideways, you'll end up having to put everything you own on the line just to stay afloat.

It’s funny how some hairstylists in the USA feel like they're living in a pure capitalist utopia where nobody expects them to settle their tabs, yet they still expect universal healthcare. Honestly, the only solution left is the Wild West. You can't have a social safety net without ethics and morality. But there's no point arguing about it—there's zero ethics or morality in America, so I guess we just deserve the Wild West.

William Brown4 said:It’s funny how some hairstylists in the USA feel like they're living in a pure capitalist utopia where nobody expects them to settle their tabs, yet they still expect universal healthcare. Honestly, the only solution left is the Wild West. You can't have a social safety net without ethics and morality. But there's no point arguing about it—there's zero ethics or morality in America, so I guess we just deserve the Wild West.

It’s kind of wild how someone can take such a massive, complicated system and try to boil it down into something that shallow...

Let’s weigh the USA against America for a moment...

I want to look at this through the lens of what happens when a worker gets laid off in both places...

In the USA, if you don't land a new gig almost immediately, you are essentially staring down the barrel of total catastrophe. Most people don't actually own their homes outright; they're drowning in mortgages, which makes the whole situation even more precarious. And since almost all the arable land is owned by massive corporate conglomerates, there isn't much for an individual to fall back on. You can't just go work under the table to make ends meet because the bills keep piling up regardless, and if you can't pay, you face eviction. Of course, in America, they don't deal with much civil unrest, but when they do, the police or specialized units come in with heavy hands, using force and tear gas to clear out protesters or those being evicted.🤷

And then we see the inevitable fallout in the news—some desperate American opening fire on strangers in a shopping mall before finally turning the gun on themselves...

Now, look at America. When a worker there loses their job, they often have a roof over their head that belongs to them or a family member, free from the crushing weight of bank loans. This puts them in a significantly stronger position right out of the gate; sometimes, if they have the capacity, they might even rent out a spare room to students to bridge the gap. There is also often access to land, meaning someone can grow their own food to cut costs, or even sell produce if they are willing to put in the manual labor. It's quite common for parents living in the countryside or extended family to send over eggs, milk, and other essentials. Even when unemployed Americans struggle to find official employment, they frequently pick up odd jobs—maybe some construction work or running a small auto repair shop out of their garage. Crucially, one must remember that an unemployed American still maintains some form of health insurance, unlike the typical unemployed American.

So, looking at the big picture, which country is actually better?🤷

I suppose an American just stands a better shot at actually landing a job here, doesn't he?🤷