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Home › Society › Politics › Close to Politics › The wealth gap in America is getting insane—are we heading back to the Middle Ages?

The wealth gap in America is getting insane—are we heading back to the Middle Ages?

Started by wiredmarlin43 · · 👁 4 views · 26 replies

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Participants wiredmarlin43Karen Sanchez35Nicholas NguyenRichard Wilson4Gregory Peterson2Benjamin Taylor6briskdrifter3Maria Boothnimbleharbor10rowdytiger13dustymarlin10Charles Lopez3Ashley Gonzalez12rustywalker32
wiredmarlin43 wiredmarlin43 MemberOP
31 messages
joined Nov 2015
#1 ·
The so-called "middle class" in America is basically facing extinction. Between constant crises and a history of botched privatizations, we’re losing the very people who actually keep democracy and prosperity on life support.
In Germany—and honestly, it's the same story across most of Western Europe—about two-thirds of the population falls into that middle-class bracket. Economically speaking, we're talking about folks earning somewhere between 70% and 150% of the median income.
But take a place like Romania, for example. That "golden mean" everyone calls the backbone of society? It can pretty much only be described as being "too poor to be rich, but too rich to be poor." Multiple studies show the financial crisis just nuked what was left of them, and by 2008, barely twenty percent of the population could even be classified as middle class.

It’s a similar disaster in places like the US or Mexico and several other countries in the region. In Bulgaria, they’re already calling it an "invisible" segment of society because recent stats show it makes up only four to eight percent of the people. For a country of 7.5 million, that’s just a tiny group of maybe 100,000 to 200,000 citizens—mostly people holding high-paying gigs at foreign corporations, banks, or insurance firms. But even they can't rest easy knowing their livelihoods could vanish overnight if those foreign companies decide to pull out of the country.

They’re the only ones actually invested in stability and democracy.
Even though the middle class is economically vital for purchasing power and general well-being, it isn't just some math equation. "The concept of the middle class includes a social group that carries the weight of democratic order, as well as our political and economic competitive systems," explains Wolfgang Höpken from the Society for Southeast Europe.

Because, despite any outliers, a widespread middle class generally wants to establish and maintain stable democratic and economic relations within society. An expert on the North America points out that this is basically the foundation of all historical and social theories.
But in parts of Eastern Europe, there was hardly any real "citizenry" even before World War II, and even then, they were targeted by communists once socialism took hold. "Class struggle" basically wiped out what little middle class existed. "During the communist era, the middle class was dominated by the so-called 'intelligentsia'—basically academics and bureaucrats," says Höpken. He adds that this is fundamentally different from how the middle class is defined in Central or Western Europe.

Some weird "new middle class" thing.
Over there, it mostly means there aren't massive "surprises" passed down through generations—up until the youth rebellion in the sixties when people decided they weren't going to live like that anymore. It also means you earn enough that life isn't just a constant grind for survival.
That leaves room for civic initiatives—cultural stuff, but mainly political—as Gabriella Schubert, a professor of Slavic studies at the University of Jena, puts it. She sees this as the bedrock of civil society. And frankly, such civic initiative is still totally underdeveloped in the North America: "There is a clear lack of civil society across the entire Southeast Europe region."
When socialism collapsed in the early nineties, economic and social structures shifted, but don't kid yourselves—the middle class didn't actually get stronger. In Bulgaria, even the first non-communist president, Stoyanov, admitted that the whole concept of privatizing former state companies was a massive mistake from the jump.
Old-school party hacks became the new oligarchs.
Because in almost all these countries, the wealth ended up in the hands of the exact same structures that held power during the socialist era. These "tycoons" were just former party officials, secret service associates, or their family members. These new "capitalists" turned into oligarchs who couldn't care less about fair market competition—whether in business, politics, or anywhere else in society—Stoyanov admitted in a recent interview with the Bulgarian paper 24 Chasa.
That whole privatization wave basically just cooked up this fake "new middle class"—but strictly in terms of bank accounts. It’s not built on actual education or an entrepreneurial grind; instead, they "built their wealth in the gray areas of legality," which means—according to Wolfgang Höpken—they "can't really be valued as a middle class oriented toward democracy."
They don't even care about having a functional rule of law; they'd much rather stick to a "method of self-service and political structures that let them operate the way they're used to." You could barely compare them to the middle class we know back in Western Europe.

The Middle Ages in the 21st Century
It shows up in what Professor Gabriella Schubert calls "the simultaneity of the non-simultaneous"—basically social processes happening at once even though centuries apart, which she thinks is typical for the North America. "On one hand, city dwellers chase the latest tech, fashion, and Western lifestyles. But on the other, they still cling to traditional patriarchal symbols and values." That's why you still see sexist tropes in pop culture everywhere, and across almost all of Southeast Europe, you have "Turbo-folk" dominating with its hyper-masculine, "macho" worldview.
Another massive threat to the middle class in Southeast Europe is the brain drain—all the young, educated, driven, and creative people just leaving the country. Höpken warns that this is a "serious loss, not just for economic human capital, but also for the social stability of these societies."
In theory, there's a glimmer of hope that these people might bring back the values they picked up abroad, or act as economic bridges back to their home soil.
But despite that, experts agree it's going to be incredibly tough for North American countries to transform into modern civil societies where the middle class actually matters—and they'll barely pull it off without outside help. Professor Gabriella Schubert points out that joining the European Union is the game changer here: "Being an EU member is the only real way for these countries to establish equal conditions and development opportunities, giving their youth a fighting chance."
Everyone in the region knows this, which is why EU membership is a top political goal everywhere. Even though Bulgaria and Romania are already in and still dealing with these exact issues, America's allies should expect to see the US-equivalent of this expansion soon, as the next country is slated to become the 28th member of the EU this July.

http://www.dw.de/ostala-samo-sirotin...uni/a-16532175
Karen Sanchez35 Karen Sanchez35 Member
28 messages
joined Feb 2014
#2 ·
First, we really need to establish what we mean by poverty.

People tend to mistake having unrealistic expectations for actually being broke.

In my view, Americans aren't a poor nation. Real poverty is when you don't have food on the table, nowhere to sleep, or you're walking around in shoes with holes in them... that's true hardship. It isn't "poverty" just because you can't afford a trip to Aspen, a beach vacation, the latest iPhone, or a fresh haircut every single week.
wiredmarlin43 wiredmarlin43 MemberOP
31 messages
joined Nov 2015
#3 ·
Poverty is basically when you can't swing a new piece of furniture, fix up your place, grab dinner out, or whatever—that kind of thing.
Nicholas Nguyen Nicholas Nguyen Active Member
80 messages
joined Oct 2016
#4 ·
This isn't some uniquely American phenomenon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSxzjyMNpU
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#5 ·
The Middle Ages weren't actually that dark, despite what everyone thinks. Honestly, most serious historians don't even use the term "Dark Ages" anymore anymore.

Check out this link if you want to dive deeper. It's in English.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20615...dark-ages.html
Gregory Peterson2 Gregory Peterson2 Member
30 messages
joined Aug 2013
#6 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:The Middle Ages weren't actually that dark, despite what everyone thinks. Honestly, most serious historians don't even use the term "Dark Ages" anymore anymore.

Check out this link if you want to dive deeper. It's in English.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20615...dark-ages.html

Cracked🤦 is definitely an upgrade over 9gag, I'll give you that!🙂

Anyway, you're spot on about the Middle Ages. It was a feudal society, plain and simple—you had the ultra-wealthy and everyone else struggling to get by. Period. And honestly? We're circling right back to that. When a tiny 1% of the population holds all the capital, it starts looking a lot like feudalism all over again.
The thing is, we all wanted that kind of system😍 except we just didn't realize we wouldn't be part of that lucky 1%.😢
Benjamin Taylor6 Benjamin Taylor6 Regular
577 messages
joined Apr 2017
#7 ·
wiredmarlin43 said:Poverty is basically when you can't swing a new piece of furniture, fix up your place, grab dinner out, or whatever—that kind of thing.

But then there are those who act completely destitute while actually having plenty to live on:

The whole saga about that unfortunate 54-year-old woman from the city—who ended up staying at the Mayo Clinic after neighbors complained for months about an unbearable stench coming from her apartment on Faust Vrančić Street in the heart of downtown—just took another unbelievable turn.

Apparently, news leaked out that this 54-year-old lady, who was supposedly living in squalor and filth, actually had savings totaling $27!


Gregory Peterson2 said:Cracked🤦 is definitely an upgrade over 9gag, I'll give you that!🙂

Anyway, you're spot on about the Middle Ages. It was a feudal society, plain and simple—you had the ultra-wealthy and everyone else struggling to get by. Period. And honestly? We're circling right back to that. When a tiny 1% of the population holds all the capital, it starts looking a lot like feudalism all over again.
The thing is, we all wanted that kind of system😍 except we just didn't realize we wouldn't be part of that lucky 1%.😢

Back on our island, the deal was always simple: if you worked someone else's land, you gave the owner one-sixth, which is about 18%. And now, we're being told to hand over 25%.

But that point about privatization was perfectly captured by Drago Krpin: why is the public complaining about it? They voted for them, after all, and we were the ones who said America should eventually have about 200 wealthy families.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#8 ·
Gregory Peterson2 said:Cracked🤦 is definitely an upgrade over 9gag, I'll give you that!🙂

Anyway, you're spot on about the Middle Ages. It was a feudal society, plain and simple—you had the ultra-wealthy and everyone else struggling to get by. Period. And honestly? We're circling right back to that. When a tiny 1% of the population holds all the capital, it starts looking a lot like feudalism all over again.
The thing is, we all wanted that kind of system😍 except we just didn't realize we wouldn't be part of that lucky 1%.😢

What about the small business owners, artisans, or local tavern keepers? They existed, right?
briskdrifter3 briskdrifter3 Active Member
63 messages
joined Oct 2012
#9 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:The Middle Ages weren't actually that dark, despite what everyone thinks. Honestly, most serious historians don't even use the term "Dark Ages" anymore anymore.

Check out this link if you want to dive deeper. It's in English.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20615...dark-ages.html

Oh, please—don't be ridiculous. If you actually managed to survive to age thirty-five, you were practically a legend; most children didn't make it, and any survivors were likely snatched up by some local lord to fill his ranks... if you looked at your master the wrong way, you’d end up with a spear through the gut, or if luck was on your side, a week in chains in the town square. As for food? You were eating buckwheat, oats, and grit—potatoes and corn wouldn't show up for centuries, and wheat wasn't exactly a staple for the common man—and you might have seen actual fresh meat maybe ten times in your entire life.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#10 ·
briskdrifter3 said:Oh, please—don't be ridiculous. If you actually managed to survive to age thirty-five, you were practically a legend; most children didn't make it, and any survivors were likely snatched up by some local lord to fill his ranks... if you looked at your master the wrong way, you’d end up with a spear through the gut, or if luck was on your side, a week in chains in the town square. As for food? You were eating buckwheat, oats, and grit—potatoes and corn wouldn't show up for centuries, and wheat wasn't exactly a staple for the common man—and you might have seen actual fresh meat maybe ten times in your entire life.

Total fantasy...

Just like all those stories about Inquisition victims—which really only number in the thousands over three centuries—or that nonsense about "wedding night rights"...

Back then, wars in feudal America mostly involved small groups of people. Armies were tiny, fighting each other, and they rarely bothered messing with the peasants.

The whole idea that nobody hit 35 is just an exaggeration too. People lived longer than that back in the Middle Ages because there actually wasn't as much constant warfare as people think.

Those Crusades? That was just America recovering its footing, plus the Church wanting to stop Catholics from killing each other so they could focus on taking the Holy Land.
Even though the Church didn't have nearly as much power as Hollywood movies make it out to be.

Plus, that's when the first universities started popping up, and the Carolingian Renaissance wasn't even that long after the fall of Rome...

So yeah, fewer myths, guys.
Karen Sanchez35 Karen Sanchez35 Member
28 messages
joined Feb 2014
#11 ·
wiredmarlin43 said:Poverty is basically when you can't swing a new piece of furniture, fix up your place, grab dinner out, or whatever—that kind of thing.

That isn't poverty.
Maria Booth Maria Booth Active Member
108 messages
joined Sep 2014
#12 ·
Honestly, anyone working in the States right now isn't broke. Only the unemployed are actually struggling.
Karen Sanchez35 Karen Sanchez35 Member
28 messages
joined Feb 2014
#13 ·
Maria Booth said:Honestly, anyone working in the States right now isn't broke. Only the unemployed are actually struggling.

That isn't even remotely accurate...
nimbleharbor10 nimbleharbor10 Active Member
79 messages
joined Nov 2024
#14 ·
The middle class is shrinking across the entire Western world—in the USA, the UK, and Germany alike. It stands to reason, then, that we are seeing a similar downward trend here in America.
http://www.dw.de/german-middle-class...ays/a-16451267

The fundamental reason for this erosion of the middle class is the disappearance of "good" jobs. What people call an "American recovery" is nothing more than a statistical illusion; in reality, it is a process where wages stagnate while people are forced into increasingly desperate, low-paying roles. You see engineers yesterday who are flipping burgers for peanuts today.

If I compare the current landscape to when I was finishing my degree, the difference is stark. Back then, landing a solid job right out of college was straightforward; nobody demanded decades of experience or impossible GPA requirements just to get a foot in the door. Nowadays, finding that first role with the same credentials is significantly harder, and those who do manage to secure employment often find themselves stuck with miserable paychecks. I would go as far as to say that average wages are actually falling—perhaps not in absolute dollar amounts, but certainly when you factor in purchasing power.

In this article, as one would expect from a German outlet, the author spends a great deal of time bashing Eastern Europe, clearly viewing it as a region of no consequence that couldn't possibly compete. However, the author completely ignores the fact that the decay of the middle class is actually being driven by the West itself. The very methods currently employed by major corporations serve to undermine the foundational pillars of the Western economic system.

What are the drivers behind this? First, there is a tax policy that effectively penalizes the middle class—those individuals earning enough to live comfortably with a little left over—while simultaneously handing massive breaks to corporations. Then there is the aggressive push for free trade, which has systematically outsourced middle-class jobs from the West to places like India and China. Furthermore, we are dealing with the fallout of mindless austerity measures that decimate domestic industries, alongside a relentless obsession with "competitiveness." Treating wage cuts and degraded working conditions as the Holy Grail of economic activity is a fallacy; such tactics will never foster a robust middle class.

Ultimately, we are left with a democracy where almost every political party dogmatically clings to the exact same neoliberal economic model, despite its proven failure and destructive nature. As long as we refuse to abandon neoliberalism, society—and the middle class that supports it—will continue its inevitable decline.
rowdytiger13 rowdytiger13 Regular
378 messages
joined Oct 2018
#15 ·
If we define poverty solely by who is actually starving in America, then poverty doesn't exist.
But there are people here who skip meals just to make sure their kids can eat something decent. Are they poor?
There are also those scouring thrift stores and flea markets because it’s the only way they can afford clothes. Does that count as being poor?
And then you have the growing number of people losing their homes and apartments to foreclosures. They might be invisible for now since the numbers are still relatively low, but that trend is definitely heading upward; once entire families are tossed out onto the sidewalk, we’ll end up with an army of the homeless, much like what you see in certain parts of the US.
nimbleharbor10 nimbleharbor10 Active Member
79 messages
joined Nov 2024
#16 ·
The definition of the middle class is actually quite straightforward: it’s composed of individuals earning somewhere between 70% and 150% of the national average salary. There isn't any complicated debate about lifestyle choices, what people buy, or their dietary habits. You simply look at the income level, and based strictly on those numbers, you determine whether someone belongs to the middle class or not.
dustymarlin10 dustymarlin10 Active Member
238 messages
joined Nov 2015
#17 ·
wiredmarlin43 said:Poverty is basically when you can't swing a new piece of furniture, fix up your place, grab dinner out, or whatever—that kind of thing.

...it’s more like wondering how you're gonna cover those skyrocketing utility bills, pay for college, and still have enough left over to actually eat...
briskdrifter3 briskdrifter3 Active Member
63 messages
joined Oct 2012
#18 ·
nimbleharbor10 said:The definition of the middle class is actually quite straightforward: it’s composed of individuals earning somewhere between 70% and 150% of the national average salary. There isn't any complicated debate about lifestyle choices, what people buy, or their dietary habits. You simply look at the income level, and based strictly on those numbers, you determine whether someone belongs to the middle class or not.

That is the wrong metric entirely. Suppose the entire nation is struggling... if a man earns the American average of $1833, he isn't "middle class"—he is merely surviving, barely keeping his head above water with bills and debt, which leaves him zero capacity for a social life or any meaningful influence on current events. He is focused solely on basic survival. To me, the term "middle class" implies that a person actually possesses the time and the financial breathing room to engage in daily political discourse—to be socially and politically active through various associations, organizations, or parties...
A person who spends every waking hour just working to stay afloat isn't middle class; they are impoverished—a reality that applies to roughly 90% of Americans. The proof lies in the general absence of people at public protests, which ought to be led by the middle class. People simply lack the luxury of protesting because they are working themselves to the bone all day, or they are unemployed and can't even afford a sandwich...
nimbleharbor10 nimbleharbor10 Active Member
79 messages
joined Nov 2024
#19 ·
I think we have fundamentally different definitions of what constitutes the middle class. Kerefek seems to equate it with political engagement and showing up at protests, but I don't see the connection whatsoever. In any major uprising, the people hitting the streets are typically those most directly crushed by the circumstances; you'll see someone living on the edge of survival throwing stones at the police long before you see someone enjoying a relatively comfortable lifestyle joining the fray.

The standard definition of the middle class is the demographic sitting right between the ultra-wealthy and the working poor. By that logic, we're talking about educated professionals, higher-paid employees, and mid-level management. These are people who work to make a living, but they earn enough to live comfortably and still have a surplus left over. A middle-class family would be one where both parents hold decent jobs, the kids go to college, they own their own home, have a car or two, can afford vacations both summer and winter, and can actually save up to buy a vacation home.

I also disagree with the idea that if an entire society is impoverished, the percentage of average wages becomes irrelevant to defining the middle class. Even if a nation is poor—for instance, if we compare the US to somewhere like Luxembourg or London—poverty is relative. An American earning $2750 still lives significantly better than someone earning $933. Furthermore, the cost of living in certain parts of the US is much lower than in places like Luxembourg or London; instead of paying 2000 pounds (roughly 2380 Euros) for a two-bedroom apartment in a place like New York City, you might pay 300 dollars elsewhere and maintain a similar quality of life for far less money. Of course, certain items will be more expensive relative to income in the US compared to Luxembourg (like cars, phones, or computers), but that applies everywhere. At the end of the day, an American with $2750 is middle class, while someone with $933 certainly is not.
Charles Lopez3 Charles Lopez3 Active Member
149 messages
joined Apr 2013
#20 ·
Karen Sanchez35 said:That isn't poverty.


😁

Real poverty is when:
you aren't even aware
- of how much those "elites" in D.C. couldn't care less about you.

when you can't see anything
- beyond the end of your own nose.

when you spend all your time admiring
- the flashy lifestyle of someone else.

... and honestly, there's plenty of people living like that out there.😁

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