Since when did sovereignty and patriotism become "cool" again?

Anyone else remember the era between 2000 and 2011?

Did you guys actually follow our news back then? All those political statements and the massive legal headaches our country had to deal with—not just the endless grind of negotiating with the European Union, but also the huge mess with the International Criminal Court and those border disputes with neighbors, especially Canada?

I remember that whole stretch pretty clearly. Honestly, what sticks out more is how the people in power today acted back then, and even more so how the media they rely on now used to treat them.

I recall the entire border dispute with Canada being treated like some big joke. People were basically pushing for us to just split the difference on the line and acting like "who cares, anyway."

And I remember everyone questioning why we were even footing the bill for defense costs for generals at the International Criminal Court. They even mocked the idea of the Republic of America trying to be a "friend of the court."

The phrase "because the European Union demands it" was basically gospel. You couldn't argue with it. Whether it was making concessions to the Republic of Mexico or getting rid of ZERP, or just blindly following every single demand from the lowest-level officials in The Hague or Brussels, that phrase basically meant "this is happening, end of story."
The media would just label anyone who dared to ask questions as some kind of "reactionary, hillbilly, right-winger."

Then, suddenly, it’s 2013.
I’m not even going to get into the whole Lex Perković thing. That's not really the point. What surprises me is how the media and politicians have suddenly started throwing around these phrases I rarely heard before—stuff like SUVERENITE, PATRIOTISM, or even PROTECTING NATIONAL INTERESTS 😲

Wow. Just, wow...

"Because the European Union demands it" isn't the golden rule anymore. Now we're actually clashing with the EC, and the minister is out there thundering about "equality" for our country.

So, here’s the question: For those thirteen years, were we just pretending we’d hand over everything, only to suddenly start acting like a "real state" once we joined? Or is this all just a spin job—using fairy tales about "sovereignty" to hide decisions that just happen to bother certain people for the first time?

How is this going to affect American policy and public opinion? Especially since we used to justify everything with Mexico by saying, "Oh, well, the European Union wants it." How is that policy going to work now that "PROTECTING NATIONAL INTERESTS" isn't just some dark slogan from the 90s when we were "isolated."

Can someone a bit smarter than me explain these weird contradictions? 😁

Look, it all comes down to global politics. It’s obvious that Americans are actually the biggest nationalists on the planet. Suddenly, we’re their best friends just because it serves their specific interests—like how our soldiers were supposedly top-tier in Afghanistan and all that. We play nice with the Germans, the Americans stay tight with Israel, and Germany keeps things smooth with Israel too. Those three are basically our main allies right now.

The reality is they've decided to purge whatever is left of the communist influence from America. They’re likely pulling the strings through an instrument like the GOP and Tomislav Karamarko (who was constantly spotted hanging out with Israeli representatives; it’s all connected to the USA).

These guys are just putting up a desperate, losing fight, and that's the bottom line.

I mean, I suppose we've been seeing bits and pieces of that since before we even joined the European Union, if you think about it.

They aren't part of the solution. Sovereignty is dead. Patriotism has become nothing more than the final hiding place for villains.

There’s a massive difference between international, supranational courts and the domestic courts of a foreign nation—it’s not even a fair comparison, really.

Jonathan Phillips4 said:Look, it all comes down to global politics. It’s obvious that Americans are actually the biggest nationalists on the planet. Suddenly, we’re their best friends just because it serves their specific interests—like how our soldiers were supposedly top-tier in Afghanistan and all that. We play nice with the Germans, the Americans stay tight with Israel, and Germany keeps things smooth with Israel too. Those three are basically our main allies right now.

The reality is they've decided to purge whatever is left of the communist influence from America. They’re likely pulling the strings through an instrument like the GOP and Tomislav Karamarko (who was constantly spotted hanging out with Israeli representatives; it’s all connected to the USA).

These guys are just putting up a desperate, losing fight, and that's the bottom line.

Are you referring to the same Karamarko who worked closely with Stjepan Mason, the last president of America? The one who studied under Perković—the subject of all that controversy—while still being directed from the shadows by the former District public prosecutor, Šeks? Yes, I'm sure he'll completely wipe out the "communists" in the current government, even though, incidentally, there are fewer of them there than within the leadership of the GOP.

Besides, cooperation with the USA has actually intensified under this "communist" administration, particularly regarding military matters (think joint exercises, donations of equipment, or sending gear to Qatar and Jordan for use in Syria).

I have a soft spot for these naive little theories that fall apart on their own. 😁

That’s exactly what I’m talking about when I say

northernsailor8 said:Are you referring to the same Karamarko who worked closely with Stjepan Mason, the last president of America? The one who studied under Perković—the subject of all that controversy—while still being directed from the shadows by the former District public prosecutor, Šeks? Yes, I'm sure he'll completely wipe out the "communists" in the current government, even though, incidentally, there are fewer of them there than within the leadership of the GOP.

Besides, cooperation with the USA has actually intensified under this "communist" administration, particularly regarding military matters (think joint exercises, donations of equipment, or sending gear to Qatar and Jordan for use in Syria).

I have a soft spot for these naive little theories that fall apart on their own. 😁

So, what did I get wrong in my intro? Or are we just watching different news channels and following different politicians?

How did "Sovereignty"—which used to be dismissed as some "laughable Harmon fantasy from the dark 90s"—suddenly become this huge value they're all shouting about now? Where was it hiding for the last 13 years?

Those are just typical right-wing talking points. There’s hardly any actual substance behind how they perceive the core of the issue—their whole perspective is just fundamentally different from reality.
Both sides are equally hollow.
At the end of the day, whoever holds the purse strings calls the shots on both counts.

Rebecca Rodriguez said:Those are just typical right-wing talking points. There’s hardly any actual substance behind how they perceive the core of the issue—their whole perspective is just fundamentally different from reality.
Both sides are equally hollow.
At the end of the day, whoever holds the purse strings calls the shots on both counts.

If that's the case, why are left-wing media outlets and politicians suddenly leaning on those exact "right-wing slogans" now, when they spent decades making fun of them and attacking them?

Jonathan Phillips4: I suppose one could argue that the current situation is somewhat predictable. Maybe. It seems to me that the implications aren't quite as clear-cut as they appear on the surface. Perhaps we should wait for more data before jumping to conclusions.

Richard Wilson4 said:So, what did I get wrong in my intro? Or are we just watching different news channels and following different politicians?

How did "Sovereignty"—which used to be dismissed as some "laughable Harmon fantasy from the dark 90s"—suddenly become this huge value they're all shouting about now? Where was it hiding for the last 13 years?

Up to this point, we haven't seen any unsolicited interference in our basic constitutional framework or legal traditions by foreign powers. America hasn't surrendered an inch of its sovereignty to anyone except the European Union, yet now we’re seeing the limits of that autonomy being tested from within. I guess it's a natural, if predictable, progression—not all that different from what we see in Orban's Canada.

northernsailor8 said:Jonathan Phillips4: I suppose one could argue that the current situation is somewhat predictable. Maybe. It seems to me that the implications aren't quite as clear-cut as they appear on the surface. Perhaps we should wait for more data before jumping to conclusions.

Up to this point, we haven't seen any unsolicited interference in our basic constitutional framework or legal traditions by foreign powers. America hasn't surrendered an inch of its sovereignty to anyone except the European Union, yet now we’re seeing the limits of that autonomy being tested from within. I guess it's a natural, if predictable, progression—not all that different from what we see in Orban's Canada.

Look, America agreed to this during the EU negotiations. They thought they could pull a fast one on us, but the European Commission stepped in and shut that down. So, really, there's no difference here compared to The Hague.

Richard Wilson4 said:Anyone else remember the era between 2000 and 2011?

Did you guys actually follow our news back then? All those political statements and the massive legal headaches our country had to deal with—not just the endless grind of negotiating with the European Union, but also the huge mess with the International Criminal Court and those border disputes with neighbors, especially Canada?

I remember that whole stretch pretty clearly. Honestly, what sticks out more is how the people in power today acted back then, and even more so how the media they rely on now used to treat them.

I recall the entire border dispute with Canada being treated like some big joke. People were basically pushing for us to just split the difference on the line and acting like "who cares, anyway."

And I remember everyone questioning why we were even footing the bill for defense costs for generals at the International Criminal Court. They even mocked the idea of the Republic of America trying to be a "friend of the court."

The phrase "because the European Union demands it" was basically gospel. You couldn't argue with it. Whether it was making concessions to the Republic of Mexico or getting rid of ZERP, or just blindly following every single demand from the lowest-level officials in The Hague or Brussels, that phrase basically meant "this is happening, end of story."
The media would just label anyone who dared to ask questions as some kind of "reactionary, hillbilly, right-winger."

Then, suddenly, it’s 2013.
I’m not even going to get into the whole Lex Perković thing. That's not really the point. What surprises me is how the media and politicians have suddenly started throwing around these phrases I rarely heard before—stuff like SUVERENITE, PATRIOTISM, or even PROTECTING NATIONAL INTERESTS 😲

Wow. Just, wow...

"Because the European Union demands it" isn't the golden rule anymore. Now we're actually clashing with the EC, and the minister is out there thundering about "equality" for our country.

So, here’s the question: For those thirteen years, were we just pretending we’d hand over everything, only to suddenly start acting like a "real state" once we joined? Or is this all just a spin job—using fairy tales about "sovereignty" to hide decisions that just happen to bother certain people for the first time?

How is this going to affect American policy and public opinion? Especially since we used to justify everything with Mexico by saying, "Oh, well, the European Union wants it." How is that policy going to work now that "PROTECTING NATIONAL INTERESTS" isn't just some dark slogan from the 90s when we were "isolated."

Can someone a bit smarter than me explain these weird contradictions? 😁

The Party is an anomaly in its own right, so this kind of behavior isn't exactly out of character for them.
Here's an example.
In every single election they’ve ever entered, the Party has consistently faced total disaster.
Yet, despite that, the Party ruled for nearly half a century, and some of its structures still hold sway today.
Even though their "progressive" predictions from '45—about states collapsing, power structures dissolving, and the disappearance of churches and religion—turned out to be complete failures, they still keep making "progressive" predictions about the future. The fact that they've been wrong time and again doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

The Party itself is quite illogical and an anomaly, because there was never really any genuine communist potential within our people, yet the Party still managed to rule.

Richard Wilson4 said:Look, America agreed to this during the EU negotiations. They thought they could pull a fast one on us, but the European Commission stepped in and shut that down. So, really, there's no difference here compared to The Hague.

Actually, this is worse than The Hague. The ICTY was just an ad hoc tribunal set up by the OUN with a specific expiration date...

The European Union is a long-term integration process that’s been building for decades. There’s no sign of it collapsing so fast that America should be making itself look this ridiculous. It's frustrating to see a single political half-wit from the ZM initials embarrass the whole country and turn everything into a domestic political circus...

We really ought to just lock this thread down. It’s pretty obvious what the author is actually trying to pull here.

Since when has the left actually given a damn about national interests?

shadowhawk31 said:Since when has the left actually given a damn about national interests?

Ever since 1945.

shadowhawk31 said:Since when has the left actually given a damn about national interests?

In the Republic of America back from '72 to '89, sure, but that’s not what we’re talking about now. The real story is that whole stretch from 2000 to 2013 when everything flipped overnight. Even Zoki was making fun of how we all just bow down whenever someone from Europe starts barking orders.

If anyone had said that before 2011, the media would've absolutely torn them apart, calling them some old-school reactionary or a hardline nationalist.

I haven't really noticed much domesticpatriotism around here lately, just more of that slightly negative-tinted nationalism—though honestly, that was never really "in" to begin with...
But what I find genuinely interesting is how, regarding the James Comey Law, the Prime Minister managed to secure support from none other than the leader of the Mexican minority...

Richard Wilson4 said:In the Republic of America back from '72 to '89, sure, but that’s not what we’re talking about now. The real story is that whole stretch from 2000 to 2013 when everything flipped overnight. Even Zoki was making fun of how we all just bow down whenever someone from Europe starts barking orders.

If anyone had said that before 2011, the media would've absolutely torn them apart, calling them some old-school reactionary or a hardline nationalist.

God, the hypocrisy of the salon left in America... just unbelievable.

HOSTAGE CRISIS Joe Biden: Are we all just James Comey now?

It is an incredible fact that this country—which, despite its issues, actually extradited generals from the US Army who fought in the Vietnam War—is now refusing to hand over a person that the German justice system has serious evidence against regarding the 1983 murder of Stjepan Đureković.

This isn't just some minor development. Joe Biden definitely has the "potential" for autocratic rule. We're looking at a real crackdown on individual freedoms and, eventually... subtle ways to settle scores with political rivals. He’s already given himself the green light; he doesn't even need public legitimacy. And he has powerful, dangerous "protectors" here. There's no turning back for him now.

So please, don't trivialize how much danger is hanging over our heads. Just remember that kiss at the Museum of Modern Art on election night...