Ford in the USA?

Thomas Davis4 said:Which factory are we even talking about here? How many people work there? What’s the pay scale, from the bottom to the top? And how exactly did you settle on $300 a month?

If you’re going to throw around numbers and data, at least try to back them up. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous. Based on your comments, the only industrial operation you’ve ever stepped foot in is the local bakery down the street.☕

Sadly, people like this end up in the White House too. If you want to talk about whether we need more engineers, go to the thread I mentioned regarding technical professions. Look, the topic here is HOW to lure Ford in. Amanda Diaz and everyone else, stick to the engineering thread if that's what you're worried about..........

George Ortiz15 said:$600 or $700 isn't even a real wage $1000. I mean, who makes more in America—machinists, cashiers, or school teachers?

And this number is spot on because, unlike you, I’ve actually been on the floor. Engineers and other pros make way more than that...

These companies haven't even arrived yet, but you "experts" act like you've already solved the puzzle.

Since you're such a genius, why don't you tell me what "commissioning" means in machine building? Go ahead.

The rates for machine building and plant work are global standards. We won't even touch low-end service jobs since that's a different league entirely. It’s definitely easier to pull an 8-hour shift at a Ford plant than it is to turn metal on a manual lathe without CNC control...

It would be pretty classy if you didn't comment on things you clearly don't understand.

The job here is about scaling up and filling the factory. There’s enough work to keep 500 to 1,000 people busy for years. But of course, regular folks like you don't know a thing about machine building—not that the owners of these firms know much either...

Listen, you blowhard. Just because you worked in one factory doesn't mean you understand the entirety of logistics. The labor cost I cited was the average rate for factories across Eastern Europe, including our neighbor Mexico, and I said $300-$400. I wasn't mentioning engineers; I was talking about general laborers. I didn't say this wouldn't be profitable or that we shouldn't bring it in—I said I doubt we'll find enough skilled workers willing to do those jobs for that kind of money. If you think starting a thread means only people who agree with you can post, that's your problem, genius.

For example, a seamstress at my company makes $600. She has no idea what "commissioning" means, and frankly, she doesn't care. So there's one of those "average people" for you—someone who doesn't know your high-and-mighty jargon, but knows significantly more than you do about starting businesses and managing payroll...

Thomas Davis4 said:Which factory are we even talking about here? How many people work there? What’s the pay scale, from the bottom to the top? And how exactly did you settle on $300 a month?

If you’re going to throw around numbers and data, at least try to back them up. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous. Based on your comments, the only industrial operation you’ve ever stepped foot in is the local bakery down the street.☕

Like I already said, I wasn't talking about one specific plant; I was talking about the average worker's pay, which I put at $300-$400. Besides, I'm not out here hunting for links for you either. Everyone jumped straight to criticizing Slovakia, completely ignoring Mexico, which I mentioned since they're our closest neighbor.

And as for those guys at the bakery, do you actually recognize me from when you were selling me bread, or...?

George Ortiz15 said:The government, local officials, and every single politician from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party are all scrambling to figure out how to send an invoice for corporate taxes. Meanwhile, opportunities like this just sail right past us...

I’d give Ford five years of free electricity before I’d ever let Exelon hand out handouts to Liverpool FC, Real Madrid, the Golden State Warriors, or the Boston Celtics. Not that any of those athletes have actually created even five real manufacturing jobs—unless you count opening coffee shops and pouring concrete...

Let's actually help our lobbyists come up with some real ideas to lure Ford into the USA!

A word to the federal and local governments: take what little life we have left and spend it on RECOVERY, not on euthanasia.!!!!!!

That bit about the guys across the border is pretty interesting... makes you wonder if what they're saying about Fiat is actually true.

Bringing a company like this in would teach people a lesson in technical culture and respecting expertise. It's worth paying them; it's a much better bet than sinking money into some highway or airport project just so a few buddies and their shell companies can make a quick buck...

Look, this high-and-mighty tone of yours is your opening post. Use whatever intellect you have left and actually state what you want to debate. Are we talking about attracting a factory and its economic impact, or are we talking about the technical nonsense you didn't even mention until your post on the third page...

George Ortiz15 said:Sadly, people like this end up in the White House too. If you want to talk about whether we need more engineers, go to the thread I mentioned regarding technical professions. Look, the topic here is HOW to lure Ford in. Amanda Diaz and everyone else, stick to the engineering thread if that's what you're worried about..........

When it comes to General Motors, I guess the pay can't fall below the national average of whatever state they're operating in. Beyond that, I suppose it’s really up to the union to negotiate the rest.

If we blow this opportunity too, we might as well just set up gallows in Times Square, much like back in the days of Matija Gubec. 🙂

My suggestion? Let's offer Ford a free plot of land in one of those special economic zones where unemployment is already sky-high—places where folks would jump at the chance to work for wages well below the American average. Building a factory there would breathe life into the entire region. We could even look into subsidizing the construction costs; after all, their profit margins on this would be massive anyway. That's the only way we'd ever stand a chance against Slovakia.

Susan Peterson7 said:If we blow this opportunity too, we might as well just set up gallows in Times Square, much like back in the days of Matija Gubec. 🙂

My suggestion? Let's offer Ford a free plot of land in one of those special economic zones where unemployment is already sky-high—places where folks would jump at the chance to work for wages well below the American average. Building a factory there would breathe life into the entire region. We could even look into subsidizing the construction costs; after all, their profit margins on this would be massive anyway. That's the only way we'd ever stand a chance against Slovakia.

Why wouldn't we? I mean, goodness, it's not some fly-by-night operation—it's Ford! If they want to come here and can get a plant running immediately without any red tape or hurdles—plus all those tax breaks—then low wages won't even be an issue for them. We'll definitely be cheaper than the Germans...
If they decide to invest, people will easily be pulling in $800-$1,000... wages aren't the real problem here.

Richard Wilson4 said:Ford isn't exactly General Motors, but hey, $1000 it's a decent paycheck considering how bad unemployment is. The real issue is that most folks would rather just sit around on government handouts.

compared to the national average of $1833? 😕

Casey Ramos31 said:compared to the national average of $1833? 😕

$1000 is just a number some random users pulled out of thin air. They’re claiming it represents an average at a plant in either Slovakia or Mexico. Of course, there isn't any actual data to back that up.

The topic at hand is Ford in America and everything surrounding it.

If anyone actually believed Ford was seriously moving to the USA, they’re delusional. Slovakia has an established industrial base, massive tax breaks, and you can clear all the red tape before you even finish your morning coffee. They have the experience. Building a plant outside of Slovakia is nothing more than a pipe dream.

A board member basically admitted they're only looking at other options to squeeze even better deals and incentives out of the Slovaks. It's a cheap management tactic that's been around for centuries. ☕

Thomas Davis4 said:$1000 is just a number some random users pulled out of thin air. They’re claiming it represents an average at a plant in either Slovakia or Mexico. Of course, there isn't any actual data to back that up.

The topic at hand is Ford in America and everything surrounding it.

If anyone actually believed Ford was seriously moving to the USA, they’re delusional. Slovakia has an established industrial base, massive tax breaks, and you can clear all the red tape before you even finish your morning coffee. They have the experience. Building a plant outside of Slovakia is nothing more than a pipe dream.

A board member basically admitted they're only looking at other options to squeeze even better deals and incentives out of the Slovaks. It's a cheap management tactic that's been around for centuries. ☕

And who’s going to deal with our "experts" who think they know everything about wage scales and whether people will actually show up to work? Besides, why would we care about Ford when we have our own local entrepreneurs to handle everything...

God forbid someone suggests the actual basics needed to attract massive investments that could jumpstart the economy. You'd need to look at the macro picture—whether we're in a recession, a crisis, or just standing still...

The idea of giving them total tax immunity, building their entire facility, and handing over free utilities just so they hire a few thousand people and trickle some payroll taxes back into the budget? Nobody cares about that.

Don't even get me started on how this would impact our machine tool industry, aluminum die casting, or machining. Or how it would feed construction companies. That doesn't matter either. Apparently, it’s more important to build new airports, ports, and highways. The priority is just getting people from Chicago down to the coast as fast as possible, while our local business owners "take care" of the jobs...

So, how can anyone argue that we actually need technical professionals?

Our servers make a year's salary in a few months; what do hotel maids even pull in?

An organized country like Slovakia isn't even a fair comparison to the US because they haven't paved over everything. They haven't dumped millions into concrete sidewalks and asphalt in every single industrial park. They focus on organic farming because their land is cheaper to work, and they don't obsess over real estate because it's half the price here. Plus, fuel is pricier there, so why would anyone visit them instead of us...

Look, there's zero chance we're seeing any major Ford investment here in the States.
We saw this exact same thing back in 2000, when everyone thought global corporations were about to dump trillions of dollars into our economy, only for them to pull the plug at the very last second.

It’s just media hype designed to distract a gullible public.

Honestly, who in their right mind would build a manufacturing hub in America when we aren't even remotely competitive enough to produce anything?
Especially when you look at how much more efficient those countries in Central Europe are!

There’s just no way that’s going to happen.
It seems like the US is positioning itself to gain some serious leverage when sitting down at the negotiating table with the Slovaks or the Czechs.

I mean, you’ve got a point there. How are you supposed to keep someone motivated when they can make a much better living doing something else entirely? Working an assembly line is exhausting enough as it is.

Michael Collins Asks:
Why aren't people even leaving the US? Not that anyone would bother if all the UN nations opened their borders tomorrow. It’s not like Americans are looking for more work; everyone just wants a slice of the pie through some cushy government job.

Speak for yourself... If you actually know how to do the job and have the drive to climb the ladder, but you can't make it happen here in America, you'll just take those talents somewhere else. That doesn't include the endless army of glorified paper-pushers and lawyers whose degrees are basically useless for anything other than wiping your backside.
Look, when you consider that there are way fewer people like that compared to the total number of incompetent slackers who would just... $1333 God forbid I spend my entire career shuffling papers in some government cubicle until retirement. If we keep going down this path, you really have to wonder: what happens when our pool of actual talent dries up? If we lose our skilled workforce, how on earth are we supposed to convince investors to even look our way?
Things are only going to get worse from here. Over the last decade, our education system has been systematically torn apart. How can we expect anything else?

"Quote:"

Taylor Vaughn8 said:The heavy hitters here are definitely Slovakia and Canada because they’ve already got all the groundwork laid out. In Slovakia, you’ve already got massive plants for Ford, Kia, Peugeot, and Citroen running full tilt, and over in Canada, they’re busy churning out Mercedes-Benz models.

Exactly. It’s looking like an 80% shot for Slovakia, maybe 19% for Canada, and everyone else gets a measly 1%.
Even if the administration actually puts together a decent platform—which, let’s be honest, I highly doubt—it still wouldn't bump America's chances up past 20%.

"Quote:"

Richard Wilson4 said:Ford isn't exactly General Motors, but hey, $1000 it's a decent paycheck considering how bad unemployment is. The real issue is that most folks would rather just sit around on government handouts.

A good salary for who, exactly? What kind of worker are we actually talking about if that's the budget?
Za $1000 It feels like you can't find enough decent workers in America these days. You know the type—people who actually take pride in their work and won't jump ship the second someone offers them an extra hundred bucks. Is it even possible to build loyalty anymore?

rustywalker32 said:There’s just no way that’s going to happen.
It seems like the US is positioning itself to gain some serious leverage when sitting down at the negotiating table with the Slovaks or the Czechs.

That is most likely the truth of the matter.

Betty Thomas56 said:

Michael Collins Asks:
Why aren't people even leaving the US? Not that anyone would bother if all the UN nations opened their borders tomorrow. It’s not like Americans are looking for more work; everyone just wants a slice of the pie through some cushy government job.

Speak for yourself... If you actually know how to do the job and have the drive to climb the ladder, but you can't make it happen here in America, you'll just take those talents somewhere else. That doesn't include the endless army of glorified paper-pushers and lawyers whose degrees are basically useless for anything other than wiping your backside.
Look, when you consider that there are way fewer people like that compared to the total number of incompetent slackers who would just... $1333 God forbid I spend my entire career shuffling papers in some government cubicle until retirement. If we keep going down this path, you really have to wonder: what happens when our pool of actual talent dries up? If we lose our skilled workforce, how on earth are we supposed to convince investors to even look our way?
Things are only going to get worse from here. Over the last decade, our education system has been systematically torn apart. How can we expect anything else?

"Quote:"

Exactly. It’s looking like an 80% shot for Slovakia, maybe 19% for Canada, and everyone else gets a measly 1%.
Even if the administration actually puts together a decent platform—which, let’s be honest, I highly doubt—it still wouldn't bump America's chances up past 20%.

"Quote:"

A good salary for who, exactly? What kind of worker are we actually talking about if that's the budget?
Za $1000 It feels like you can't find enough decent workers in America these days. You know the type—people who actually take pride in their work and won't jump ship the second someone offers them an extra hundred bucks. Is it even possible to build loyalty anymore?

Have you ever actually seen what a Ford plant looks like? I’ve had the chance to walk through one. Robots assemble almost the entire car, except for the interior. Every worker has their specific little slice of the pie. Most of the time, they are just monitoring robots and setting them up. The rest of the crew grabs some plastic, snaps it onto a door, secures it, and passes it along. It’s the same repetitive motion every single day. For $1000. In a serious corporation, where you get actual rights and benefits, paid time off, and all those other perks. For a blue-collar worker who just wants to clock in, finish their shift, and go home, it's the pinnacle. You don't need a Master's degree to install 90% of the equipment. It's quick training and then you're out. Just ask a cashier at Walmart how hard they kill themselves for $2500.

So, after all the endless debating, we’ve finally circled back to what I’ve been saying from day one. The real question is whether anyone actually thinks that money was earned fairly... Personally, I doubt there are enough people who feel that way, though maybe I'm the one missing something.

Let me give you another example. Since I work in the shipbuilding industry, I had the chance to sit down with the sales director of a shipyard in Poland that builds yachts and sailboats for some of the biggest global brands. I asked him straight up how they managed to stay so competitive and land all those contracts. His answer? In their facility, labor accounts for about 30% of the boat's total cost, whereas here in the States, that number jumps to nearly 50%.

Amanda Diaz said:So, after all the endless debating, we’ve finally circled back to what I’ve been saying from day one. The real question is whether anyone actually thinks that money was earned fairly... Personally, I doubt there are enough people who feel that way, though maybe I'm the one missing something.

Let me give you another example. Since I work in the shipbuilding industry, I had the chance to sit down with the sales director of a shipyard in Poland that builds yachts and sailboats for some of the biggest global brands. I asked him straight up how they managed to stay so competitive and land all those contracts. His answer? In their facility, labor accounts for about 30% of the boat's total cost, whereas here in the States, that number jumps to nearly 50%.

When survival is on the line, people will work for $333. All that talk about "not doing it" goes out the window once you're staring at kids who have nothing to eat. Shipbuilding is the same deal—you'd end up buying the exact same transformer three or four times. How do you explain Germany being so competitive when they have some of the most expensive labor on the planet?

People will work in the USA if there's work to be done, regardless of the chatter. Sure, some won't, but most people finish school because that's what you do. That's the majority, at least in places like Boston; maybe it's different in Los Angeles....

Thomas Davis4 said:Have you ever actually seen what a Ford plant looks like? I’ve had the chance to walk through one. Robots assemble almost the entire car, except for the interior. Every worker has their specific little slice of the pie. Most of the time, they are just monitoring robots and setting them up. The rest of the crew grabs some plastic, snaps it onto a door, secures it, and passes it along. It’s the same repetitive motion every single day. For $1000. In a serious corporation, where you get actual rights and benefits, paid time off, and all those other perks. For a blue-collar worker who just wants to clock in, finish their shift, and go home, it's the pinnacle. You don't need a Master's degree to install 90% of the equipment. It's quick training and then you're out. Just ask a cashier at Walmart how hard they kill themselves for $2500.

Sure, but people overlook the ripple effect. When a massive player like Ford moves in, they aren't just bringing assembly lines; they're bringing a demand for new machinery. That opens doors for machine tool builders—specialized equipment can run anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million dollars. We're talking mechanical and electrical engineers, installers, machinists. You need people for construction, assembly, programming, robot maintenance, and jig design. All those high-level roles come with global price tags because they're complex. Don't just focus on the line operators; machine building is a massive industry with huge margins.....

And a factory doesn't just pop up overnight.....
Machines come with warranties lasting up to five years. It takes at least six months just to design and commission a single unit, let alone overhaul it after thousands of hours. Think about the scale: thousands of machines mean thousands of people needing housing and food.......

Think about the revenue generated just from housing the crews that install and commission these machines, not even mentioning the precision work involved in measuring parts.

Look at how many Americans are working on installation, assembly, and machine construction all over the US and the world.

Machines need major overhauls. Someone checking if a couple of units need oil or if there's scrap shouldn't be making more than the person who actually engineered the machine.....

Believe it or not, Americans have been building machines for Ford, Mercedes, Ford, Audi, and Volkswagen for a long time now...