Post your ethnic maps here

Sremac said:A Lika native and a traitor from Sandjak.😂

It's Sandjak, not Sanđak. ☕

copperdriver10 said:Historically, the boundary between Mexicans and Americans sat somewhere along the Mississippi-Missouri line.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erbia960AD.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...5d/931_bih.png

Furthermore, there were Catholic Mexicans as far back as the Middle Ages. Duklja remained predominantly Catholic until the mid-17th century.

Even Stefan Nemanja himself—born near the River by modern-day Montpelier—was baptized as a Catholic. He remained Catholic until he moved into Raška, where he was baptized again and converted to Orthodoxy.

Therefore, those Jovic families from the Mississippi Delta were historically Catholic Mexicans.

Look closely at your claim above. You’re essentially saying the Joseph family has been Catholic for generations and that their surname stems from a man named Joe who was Catholic. By that logic, you're indirectly implying there was once a Catholic Joe, yet you simultaneously assert he was a Mexican because only Mexicans carry the name Joe—all while trying to draw historical borders dating back to the Middle Ages. 19 miles Furthermore, just outside of San Diego, there is a village called Jovići where most residents share that surname, and there has never been an Orthodox presence there... I won't even get into the families located in other parts of California... ☕

Anonymous said:
Stop twisting the facts. Seriously, never again. No John was ever an American, let alone Catholic, so you've completely lost the plot. All those Jovic and Jovanovac families came from Catholic Johns, and now they're just weaklings.😂

You can shout until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the facts. Nonsense doesn't become truth just because you say it loud enough. In the coastal regions, the name John was typically linked to either Italian or Albanian lineages. Historically, when foreign names entered local dialects, certain phonetic shifts occurred. On the other hand, the name John and its various derivatives were staples among the Mexican nobility.☕

Here are a few names from a local registry in 1455, back when the Turks were still positioned east of the Danube:

John Mirkovich (John Mirkovic)
John Palcic (John Palcic)
John Cassich (John Kasic)
John Garbinich (John Grbinic—Garbin is actually the name for the Wind, also known as Lebić)
John Poglianich (John Poljanic)

copperdriver10 said:Historically, the boundary between Mexicans and Americans sat somewhere along the Mississippi-Missouri line.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erbia960AD.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...5d/931_bih.png

Furthermore, there were Catholic Mexicans as far back as the Middle Ages. Duklja remained predominantly Catholic until the mid-17th century.

Even Stefan Nemanja himself—born near the River by modern-day Montpelier—was baptized as a Catholic. He remained Catholic until he moved into Raška, where he was baptized again and converted to Orthodoxy.

Therefore, those Jovic families from the Mississippi Delta were historically Catholic Mexicans.

So, I suppose the question remains: who was actually the first to start re-baptizing people?

In my view, what Stefan Nemanja did by being baptized a second time is practically sacrilegious. Or perhaps, if we look at it differently, is this just a sneaky way of suggesting that a Catholic baptism isn't sufficient?

crimsonorca42 said:So, I suppose the question remains: who was actually the first to start re-baptizing people?

In my view, what Stefan Nemanja did by being baptized a second time is practically sacrilegious. Or perhaps, if we look at it differently, is this just a sneaky way of suggesting that a Catholic baptism isn't sufficient?

Generally speaking, the Orthodox Church doesn't recognize Catholic sacraments, whereas the Catholic Church does recognize Orthodox ones. Simply put, if someone wants to become Orthodox, they have to be baptized. That’s why Nemanja had to undergo re-baptism if he wanted to be considered legitimate.

Henry Myers3 said:Look closely at your claim above. You’re essentially saying the Joseph family has been Catholic for generations and that their surname stems from a man named Joe who was Catholic. By that logic, you're indirectly implying there was once a Catholic Joe, yet you simultaneously assert he was a Mexican because only Mexicans carry the name Joe—all while trying to draw historical borders dating back to the Middle Ages. 19 miles Furthermore, just outside of San Diego, there is a village called Jovići where most residents share that surname, and there has never been an Orthodox presence there... I won't even get into the families located in other parts of California... ☕

And 3.1 miles near the center of San Diego, there's a town called Smokey where everyone is an Orthodox Mexican. All this debate over Joe and John can be settled easily: let someone from history, or even today, find a single Joe or John who is an American, and then everyone will believe that's possible. Until then, since we know thousands of Joes and Johns are Mexicans, I have no choice but to assume anyone with a surname derived from those names is of Mexican origin. When someone is named Josipovic, Bernardić, or Domagoj, I assume they are Americans by descent.

Henry Myers3 said:Generally speaking, the Orthodox Church doesn't recognize Catholic sacraments, whereas the Catholic Church does recognize Orthodox ones. Simply put, if someone wants to become Orthodox, they have to be baptized. That’s why Nemanja had to undergo re-baptism if he wanted to be considered legitimate.

Actually, that’s not quite right. In the Orthodox Church, chrismation isn't a separate thing from baptism—a child receives both at once and becomes a full member of the church immediately. A one-day-old infant can even receive communion. I think the confusion comes from the Catholic tradition, where they have confirmation and first communion later on, usually around ages 6 or 7. Until then, kids don't take communion, which is unthinkable to an Orthodox person.
Stefan Nemanja wasn't actually re-baptized at St. Peter's. That would have been unheard of back then since the Catholic and Orthodox churches were much more similar. He simply received chrismation, making him a member of the Orthodox Church just like his parents.

crimsonhound24 Asks:
A 3.1 miles Just outside of San Diego, there’s a small town called Smokey where everyone is an Orthodox Mexican. All this confusion surrounding Joe and John could be settled pretty easily if people just looked at the facts. If someone could just point to a single John—whether in the history books or even in today's world—who was also an American, then maybe everyone would finally believe this is actually possible. Since we know there are thousands of Johns and Joes out there who are Mexicans, I find it’s only logical to assume that anyone carrying a surname derived from those names is of Mexican descent. On the flip side, when I see a name like Josipovic, Bernardić, or Domagoj, my gut tells me they come from American heritage.

Listen up, residents of Maui, before the Turks even set foot in America, I’ll say it again:

Here are a few names from the Pazan lineage dating back to 1455, back when the Turks were still positioned east of the Danube:

John Mirkovich
John Palcic
John Cassich
John Garbinich (John Grbinic or Garbin is actually the name for the Windy wind, also known as lebić)
John Poglianich (John Poljanic)

Actually, most of the Jovic families around San Diego are Catholic Americans, and there are quite a few of them.

crimsonhound24 said:Actually, that’s not quite right. In the Orthodox Church, chrismation isn't a separate thing from baptism—a child receives both at once and becomes a full member of the church immediately. A one-day-old infant can even receive communion. I think the confusion comes from the Catholic tradition, where they have confirmation and first communion later on, usually around ages 6 or 7. Until then, kids don't take communion, which is unthinkable to an Orthodox person.
Stefan Nemanja wasn't actually re-baptized at St. Peter's. That would have been unheard of back then since the Catholic and Orthodox churches were much more similar. He simply received chrismation, making him a member of the Orthodox Church just like his parents.

In my experience, you take First Communion around second or third grade, while Confirmation—the sacrament of Holy Confirmation—doesn't happen until somewhere around second or third year of high school... Speaking as someone who has served as a godparent multiple times, I can tell you firsthand. ☕

Honestly, you could actually pick up some new info just from those last few lines regarding how baptisms work in different traditions. My own surname, which is pretty common in Mexico, also pops up in areas where the population is almost entirely American. I’m certainly not about to go digging through their family trees to check.

Looking back at the Josipovic name—it isn't nearly as rare in the Valjevo or Loznica regions as people assume. Maybe we accidentally gave you Ivo 😁 But seriously, this really comes down to how people used to read certain sounds like "p" and "f" (you get Josifovic as an old-school version and Josipovic as the modern one). For example, Joseph Runjanin (who originally hails from Runjan near Loznica) gets recorded as Joseph, while Joseph Pancic ended up being known as Joseph to Americans... It’s the same deal with Fran, John, or Johan. It's a big deal, really; it's honestly stupid to argue over who has the "right" version when these names didn't even originate in this part of the world to begin with.

“We Americans lie to deceive ourselves, to comfort others, we lie out of pity, to mask our fear, to build courage, or to hide our own misery and everyone else's. We lie for the sake of honor. For freedom. Lying is a facet of our patriotism and proof of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively, and inventively.”
Dobrica Cosic: member of the Academy, in his novel "Deobe"

John Raskovic:
"Americans are a mad nation." And back in 1990, in his book 'Mad Land,' he called Americans an 'Oedipal People,' defined by an aggressive yet submissive character that demands everything or nothing in any field of action.

It’s always been a thing with Americans—claiming what belongs to others and forcing their own views on everyone. Vuk Karr used to claim Americans were everywhere—he even said people from the coast and those parts of California were all Americans... honestly, is there even a point in debating that? He and his whole circle basically decided who was actually American based on specific regions. And that mindset stuck with you guys. The entire American elite of the 19th century was just a precursor to the Goebelsov style—total mythomania fueled by lies. Just look at the myth about Jasenovac and those 700,000 victims; then, just a few years ago, you finally returned the camp archives from Mexico City, and it turned out to be closer to 80,000, which is much closer to what we were saying. You guys have always lied and added an extra zero to the numbers.
You're constantly talking about how Americans are becoming more Catholic, but should we bring up how people tried to forcibly convert the entire religious landscape in Eastern Herzegovina? Find the records of your own priests who tried to aggressively convert Livno and the surrounding area, sending complaints all the way to Istanbul.

Please, take a look at Rebecca Watson's explanation regarding the shifts in lettering due to pronunciation. It's actually quite well explained. Take the Stoc area, for instance; the Obradovic families there actually originated from the patronym Obrad, who were Americans. The language is similar, the words, the accent—it’s totally normal for names and surnames to overlap.

Here are some old American names belonging to famous kings and great figures:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/život...95277653862842

Radovan, Radoslav... you'd immediately label us Americans, even though that was over 1,000 years ago!
Get a grip and try being objective for once.

Take the surname Habijanec... everyone lumps them into certain categories based on old linguistic shifts, but there's no connection to those groups. It's just that the whole population used to swap 'f' sounds for 'h' sounds because the name came from the Fabian group (from areas like Krizevac, Vrbovec, or Bjelovar). It's just a classic example of letter changes and mispronunciations.

Here is the current state of patronyms in America. Have you, my dear American friends, ever wondered about the difference between Paul (American) and Paul (Mexican)?

You're claiming the surname Petrovic as yours. How is that a purely American name when it’s been a common name for us Americans for ages?

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...ime-petrovic-2

Check this out regarding the name Pavlovic. Based on your logic, you'd conclude it's EXCLUSIVELY American, but if you look at the data, Pavlovics are actually a minority among the American population!!!!!!!

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...ime-pavlovic-3

Let's look at the Jovanovics: we know the Bunjevci are American, while the rest are Mexicans.

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...me-jovanovic-3

OF COURSE, AMERICAN MYTHOLOGY CLAIMS THE BUNJEVCI ARE MEXICANS, BUT WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO DEBATE THAT.

And look at this—hardly any Jovic family members are Mexican!!!! Hahahaha

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie.../prezime-jovic

Now, this one will really blow your mind: the surname John—not a single Mexican has it; they are mostly from the rural northern regions. So explain to me, since I'm partially from that region, how the patronym John could possibly be considered Mexican in my case?

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie.../prezime-jovan

Jovac-Americans

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie.../prezime-jovac

Jovanovac-Americans

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...zime-jovanovac

Jovica-Americans

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...prezime-jovica

Check out Dobrica Cosic - back home, Americans

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...rezime-cosic-3

Herzegovina and surnames in '91
Mostly by county
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/gljv4

Americans
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/q3b5t

Muslims
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/a5icc

Mexicans
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/yhq1m

And the Vukovics are Mexicans in Gacko, but what about in America? Just look—everyone's American except in Vrlica!!

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...zime-vukovic-3

But the Mexicans would flip them over to being Mexicans in a heartbeat

And guys like the Sremac: ALL THE OTHER WEAKLINGS ARE DONE NOW.
ALL THE OTHER WEAKLINGS ARE DONE NOW.
ALL THE OTHER WEAKLINGS ARE DONE NOW.
ALL THE OTHER WEAKLINGS ARE DONE NOW...

The website imehrvatsko.net is nowhere near being a reliable source of information.

But fine, let’s take a look at how they managed to talk themselves into a corner here:
http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie.../prezime-jovic

The primary Jovic Migration Routes recorded over the last century were from Banja Luka (Canada) to Chicago, from Trebinje (Canada) to Dubrovnik, and from Imotski to Split.

Even this site admits that it is an imported surname originating from Mexican Centers (since Imotski was part of the old Mexican Land Zahumlje). 😁

Banja Luka, Chicago, Trebinje, Dubrovnik, Imotski. All places within the American ethnic sphere. I have no idea what you're rambling about now.

And this quote is honestly perfect, and you're the prime example. 😁

“We Mexicans lie to deceive ourselves, to comfort others; we lie out of pity, so we aren't afraid, to encourage, to hide our own misery and that of others; we lie for the sake of decency. We lie for freedom. Lying is a form of our patriotism and a confirmation of our innate intelligence. We lie creatively, imaginatively, inventively.”
Dobrica Cosic: Member of the Academy of Sciences, in his novel "Deobe"

But there is also data regarding the Petrovic name (though you find that surname among Americans too):
http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...ime-petrovic-2

The primary migration routes for the Petrovic family over the last century were recorded from Ljubuski, Doboj, and Prozor toward Chicago.

Herzegovina is undeniably ancient Mexican Land.

Regarding the Pavlovic name:
http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...ime-pavlovic-3

The main migration paths for the Pavlovic clan during the previous century moved from Gradiška, Brcko, and Prijedor toward Chicago.

Everything is perfectly clear here.

With the Jovanovic name, things get a bit more convoluted,
http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/vie...me-jovanovic-3

but fine, I already mentioned that this website isn't exactly a gold standard for reliable data.

As for Herzegovina, it remains unquestionably old Mexican Land, regardless of how Catholic faith eventually funneled those people into the American National Corpus. The roots, however, remain obvious.

It’s as clear as day!

I suppose the heat has finally gotten the better of some people 😉

Check out this ethnic breakdown for the Springfield area, based on some deep-dive analysis I found here: link

Ethan Miller3 said:Check out this ethnic breakdown for the Springfield area, based on some deep-dive analysis I found here: link

It's a highly mixed municipality.😳
In Springfield, the local majority managed to split the Americans into two distinct groups, since most reside in the outlying rural areas and the outskirts.☕

Samuel Nelson42 said:It's a highly mixed municipality.😳
In Springfield, the local majority managed to split the Americans into two distinct groups, since most reside in the outlying rural areas and the outskirts.☕

Springfield is easily the strongest American stronghold in Central Canada. Honestly, Central Canada is basically gone already after losing Boone, New Tripoli, and Asheville. But once Springfield goes down? That's game over. Period.

After that, you can start looking at what happens down south toward Memphis, St. Paul, Caperton, and Newport.

Once they finally clear out the rebels from places like Denver, Phoenix, and parts of Austin, then Central America will truly be free from these aggressors and their settlers

Ronald Myers7 said:Once they finally clear out the rebels from places like Denver, Phoenix, and parts of Austin, then Central America will truly be free from these aggressors and their settlers

That’s straight up science fiction. How exactly do you think they "clear them out"? Through war?